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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:49 PM
hi all,

just thought something, now that we will have a western front with western planes...you kwnow, a different warfare that estern front, so, we
will get western tactics?

will we get RADAR guidance from "Wotan Boden Kontroler (sp?) "? (those of you who are as old as me will remember this from the venerable EAW)

i mean, in the west, both germans and allies had their flights vectored, monitorized, controlled, possitioned for combat, etc from the ground
control using their radars nets, so, do you think this will be modeled in FB? if not, the FR missions both online or offline will be not so
FR, since you will not be able to receive updates from the ground... just a thought, but i will miss that 'feature'.

any ideas about this subject?

WWolf

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 03:49 PM
hi all,

just thought something, now that we will have a western front with western planes...you kwnow, a different warfare that estern front, so, we
will get western tactics?

will we get RADAR guidance from "Wotan Boden Kontroler (sp?) "? (those of you who are as old as me will remember this from the venerable EAW)

i mean, in the west, both germans and allies had their flights vectored, monitorized, controlled, possitioned for combat, etc from the ground
control using their radars nets, so, do you think this will be modeled in FB? if not, the FR missions both online or offline will be not so
FR, since you will not be able to receive updates from the ground... just a thought, but i will miss that 'feature'.

any ideas about this subject?

WWolf

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 04:41 PM
Radar was also used on the Eastern front by both sides. It was not as well organized as the western front because the front lines moved so quickly, but even the Russians had a "mobile" radar set.

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XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 06:44 PM
Did the Germans use radar in the same way it was used in Britain? I vaguely remember reading something about a radar called "Freya" but I think that was used to guide AAA.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 07:14 PM
A list of more than you probably wanted to know!


Radar and Electronics:


FuG 200 Hohentwiel
Anti-ship radar, installed on large maritime patrol aircraft such as the Fw 200.

FuG 202 Lichtenstein BC
Nightfighter radar. Lichtenstein operated on 409MHz, had a maximum range of 4km, and a minimum range of 200m. The aerials had four masts on the nose of the aircraft, each with an X-frame on top that carried four tandems of vertical dipoles.

FuG 212 Lichtenstein C-1
Nightfighter radar, a simplified and updated FuG 202. It had longer masts, with a small streamlined cap over the nose of the mast.

FuG 218 Neptun
Airborne radar. Frequency could be set between 158 and 187MHz, its maximum range was 5km, its minimum range 130m. Its aerials were arranged as a single nose mast with a large X-cross, or as four masts, and a tandem set of dipoles on each tip of the cross. A small mast on top of the vertical fin was fitted for tail-warning. A version with four sets of three antennas was fitted to the Fw 190.
FuG 220 Lichtenstein SN-2
Nightfighter radar. The first version operated at 91MHz, and had a maximum range 5km, with a minimum range 500m. It was often combined with FuG 202 and FuG 212 because of the large minimum range, until this was cured. Later sets could use different frequency bands and also had a switchover capability for short ranges. Typical for the SN-2 radar were four large curved masts, each carrying a tandem set of vertical dipoles. Later sets had the dipoles not vertical but at 45 degrees. Some sets also had a tail-waring antenna, fitted under the tailplane or on the rudder.

FuG 227 Flensburg
The Flensburg was a passive homing device, tracking the allied Monica tail-warning radar sets. Antennea were fitted to the outer wing panels, projecting from the leading edges. The allied reacted by removing Monica from their aircraft.

FuG 240 Berlin
Centimetre-wave airborne radar. Berlin used a wavelength of 10cm and was based on captured examples of the British cavity magnetron. The parabolic dish antenna was installed inside a streamlined nose cover. Between 30 to 50 were issued to service units, mostly on the Ju 88G-6.

FuG 350 Naxos Z
Naxos detected the emissions of the H2S ground-mapping radar sets of allied bombers. It was installed in a teardrop-shaped cover. The use of Naxos caused a scare among allied bomber crews, but it was not actually capable of tracking H2S-equipped bombers with sufficient precision for an intercept. It did guide nightfighters to the bomber stream, detecting them at a distance of 60km.
Other versions of Naxos were used by U-boats to warn them against the approach of allied aircraft with ASV radar.

FuGM 80 Freya
This was a long-range ground radar. It is little known that the Germans had operational radar in the beginning of the war, and used it effectively against British bomber raids. Freya had a range of 120km. It operated at a frequency of 125MHz. Range precision was 125m, angle precision 0.5 degrees.

FuGM 402 Wassermann
Long-range ground detection radar. Range 190km, frequency between 120 and 158MHz. Range precision 300m, angle precision 0.25 degrees.

Knickebein
The Knickebein was the radio navigation system used by German bombers in the first phase of the battle of Britain. It was based on the Lorentz landing aid system: A ground station transmitted two overlapping beams, coded with Morse pulses. By listening to the receiver, the pilot could determine whether he was in the left beam, the right beam, or in the overlapping area that would lead him to the target. The receiver was just a more sensitive version of the standard blind landing aid, and therefore was not identified by the British. However, when the 30MHz beams were finally detected, they were easily jammed. The rumour that the British were able to "bend" the beams is baseless.

Wurzburg, FuGM 39/62
Short-range ground radar. Range 170km, frequency 560MHz, range precision 100m, angle precision 0.2 degrees. This type of radar was most frequently used to guide nightfighters to their targets.

FuMO 51 Mammut
Long-range ground detection radar. Range up to 300km, frequency between 120 and 138MHz. Range precision 300m, angle precision 0.5 degrees.

Kiel
IR detector.

Metox
Also known as the Biscay Cross because of its shape, this was a radar warning receiver carried by U-boats. It warned them against the presence of aircraft with long-wavelength ASV radars. It was ineffective against centimetric radars, for which the Naxos receiver was developed.

Morgenstern
Alternate antenna arrangment for the Lichtenstein (or Neptun?) radar. A single mast carried three crosses of antennas, decreasing in size towards the tip. This reduced drag. Sometimes fitted in a conical nose cover, with the tips of the anttenas protruding from it.

Spanner
IR detectors. Spanner I used an IR searchlight, Spanner II used passive detection only. Only Spanner I was of any use.

X-Ger├┬Ąte
Another radio navigation aid, this was far more sophisticated than Knickebein. Apart from a broad and narrow beam that guided the bomber in the direction of the target, three crossing beams were used, that allowed the calculation of ground speed and the timing of the bomb release. In this way blind bombing was possible. A disadvantage was that X-Ger├┬Ąte was a fully automated system, and more sensitive to jamming.

Y-Ger├┬Ąte
The Y-Ger├┬Ąte navigation system again used a single directional beam. A transponder in the aircraft retransmitted the signal to the ground station, thus allowing it to calculate the distance to the target. Like X-Ger├┬Ąte, it was used by elite "pathfinder" crews in specially equipped aircraft.

XyZspineZyX
11-07-2003, 09:00 PM
Monica was like turning on a searsclight in a fog... here I am!

Cavity magnitron eh.... those were the days, more intellectual genius was brought to bear by the British then than ever before or since.
A good example was the way radar was used the chain home system was pure genius even if Watson Watt was a Scot.
The Americans had technology gifted to them, we gave them the cavity magnitron, the germans gave them rocket science, and they stole our supersonic designs.
That was a nice bottle of C******nay...... french gave us that.