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View Full Version : ACES HIGH...how does it compare to IL2?



MichaelMar
10-06-2004, 10:19 AM
Anyone able to feed me some information about the pay-to-play flight sim...Aces High?

How does it compare to IL2? Does it have similar graphics, realistic damage models, great community...

At least Aces High has some better Italian planes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

TheGozr
10-06-2004, 11:20 AM
No even far to be close...

Stiglr
10-06-2004, 11:32 AM
I can tell you the graphics aren't to IL-2 standards...but then, no MMP sim will be, because to support the large number of players, you can't have nearly as much eye candy.

I'd say, from what little I remember from a couple years ago, in terms of FM/DM, it's kind of similar: both have some rather obvious holes in their modeling that create a lot of pretty dicey results. Overall, you get some feel of flight, but it's just not accurate enough.

MssrSchmidt
10-06-2004, 01:19 PM
FM/DM have been retooled extensively for the current version, AH2, so it's not the same ballgame as a couple of years ago.

But the two games are completely different animals, imho. Both have their strengths.

It comes down to personal preference, I think. For me, it's a toss-up. I fly both: AH2 online (but only in the Combat Theater arena where plane sets are historical) and FB offline.

A lot of changes down the road, like more-accurate cockpit graphics and the "Tour of Duty" concept of an online career, should hold some attraction for FB fans, I think.

lil_labbit
10-06-2004, 10:25 PM
I dropped it within 5 minutes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
That's how it compares to IL2 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TAGERT.
10-07-2004, 12:03 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
I can tell you the graphics aren't to IL-2 standards...but then, no MMP sim will be, because to support the large number of players, you can't have nearly as much eye candy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Based On? Years ago in warbirds it use to only display the closest 32 planes.. Even though there may be 100+ within visual range. I think that was up to 64 is not more later on.. But the *point* is that oline games dont lower their graphics to support the large number of players. In that even with those lower graphics they limited the number visable. Put another way.. when those online games say "fly on line with hundreds of players" you maybe logged in with hundreds.. But you will not *see* hundreds! So in summary it is not due to graphics. Probally has more to do with server hardware and the code running the game. Need more than my word? Ok, here is suporting evidence... PF will suport 128 players online.. Yet they did NOT LOWER the graphics.. As a mater of fact they RAISED them. Thus your *theory* is in error IMHO.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
I'd say, from what little I remember from a couple years ago, in terms of FM/DM, it's kind of similar: both have some rather obvious holes in their modeling that create a lot of pretty dicey results. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Obvious holes... I LOVE THAT! All style and no substance! Not one example.. Anyone else I might take thier word for it.. But in light of your fannboy biased attiude with the Targetware game I will have to NOT take your word for it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stiglr:
Overall, you get some feel of flight, but it's just not accurate enough. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Based On? Oh.. sorry.. I forgot.. Just style points.. no substance.. My bad.

Heavy_Weather
10-07-2004, 07:33 AM
hey, someone kick that guy in the picture http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

TexMurphy97
10-07-2004, 09:03 AM
They are two completely differnt ball games.

Aces High is a supperior online Player vs Player experience.

IL-2 is a more realistic flight sim experience.

The graphics are not up to par of IL-2 but they will be and actually will be better then IL-2 eventually.

The main upgrade in AH2 from AH is the graphics engine. Though atm no content in the game is created for the AH2 engine, its AH1 content and it works because its backward compatible.

The next patch, 2.01, will see the first AH2 standard content come into the game. Its the Ki-84, B24 and T34. Once that is done all old content will be upgraded into the new graphics standard.

The reason the graphics are worse has nothing to do with the fact that its a mmpog. A game beeing an mmpog does not have to do with its graphics standard. A mmpog can have equaly as high graphics as a single player game.

Though what can restrict a mmpog is the ammount detail in the flight model. If the flight model is very detailed it increases the number of events created which have to be transfered between the server and client. That is why you see more simplistic flight models in a mmpog.

That said Aces High isnt no where near simplistic in its flight model. Its simplistic compared to Il-2 yes but compared to Warbirds or Fighter Aces its a hardcore sim.

I personally play both games because they give me two differnt things. I love to play massivly multiplayer with 300+ players. But I also like to fly realistic flight sims. So what I do is I use AH to fill my online game play needs and IL-2 for single player, realism and caimpaings.

Also note that AH2 is not a WW2 recreation or simulation of WW2, its a simulation of beeing a WW2 plane pilot. Huge differnece there.

Further once the content is converted into AH2 graphics engine standard and hence graphics are in DX9.0 standard the next undertaking will take place. This is for me a very interesting one.

Its called Aces High 2:Tour of Duty.

ToD will be a career based game play on the AH2 engine. You will fly the career of your pilot through out WW2 campaigns. Your success, promotions, demotions,ect will depend on how sucessfull your mission is, not on kills.

The server will generate missions which the players take/get assigned to by higher ranking players. The missions will be generated will have counter missions generated for the other side. This means that each mission will run into differnet ammount of resistance. This will ensure that each mission will be different in "hardness" and that combat will be ensured. The success and failur of missions will not be absolute when it counts towards your promotions, if you fail a very hard missions it will not be the same as failing a very simple mission.

Another thing worth mentioning about AH is that the skill of the AH pilots is very high. Compared to the other mmpog flight sims (Warbirds and Fighter Aces) its extreamly high.

Id recommend playing AH2 but not expecting it to be IL-2 or be played like IL2. If you expect that then you wount enjoy it. Play it for what it is and you will have a great time because it is a great game if played for what it is.

Tex

BSS_Goat
10-07-2004, 09:28 AM
TexMurphy97
Nice post. The career sounds cool, hope they can make it work.

Aaron_GT
10-07-2004, 12:48 PM
"Though what can restrict a mmpog is the ammount detail in the flight model. If the flight model is very detailed it increases the number of events created which have to be transfered between the server and client. That is why you see more simplistic flight models in a mmpog."

I'm a bit unsure how it being an MMPOG makes a difference to the fidelity of the flight model unless the server is handling lots of AI. The clients should be doing the FM calculation and simply relaying updates of position, velocity, heading, etc., to the server. There may be an issue with predictive code to fill in gaps between updates that might need to be done at a simpler level, but I'm not clear that even this necessarily needs to be done on the server: a player's client end could do predictions of planes in the vicinity during lag black holes rather than relying on the server to do this for the client. True, this would mean that different players might get different ideas of where the plane is, if calculations have to be dropped to remain responsiveness of the client front end for the client's own FM, which might be undesirable, but even so... Maybe I am missing something (always possible, or even fairly likely!)

Aaron_GT
10-07-2004, 12:50 PM
The online career thing is interesting, but it's not much different in nature (perhaps different in detail and on how strictly it is done) to the various things built on top of IL2/FB/AEP such as VEF. Some more support for things like VEF built into BoB could be nice, of course, to allow strategic board game type engines to integrate with scenario generation perhaps.

bukiG
10-07-2004, 01:00 PM
Few things i like about Aces High..


view system (you can actually move your view inside the cockpit)

Online gameplay experience..
capturing and bombing fields,cities,ports.
Usable planes,guns,tanks,vehicles,boats

visible locational damage
Shadows
Ar-234 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
flight model
skins
Connection
300+ players online most of the time.

Attacking 40+ bomber formations,participating in 50+ player gound/air assaults or searching/attacking enemy carriers can produce some interesting gaming experiences..

Main Arena is a little problematic as it consists of mostly late war planes (not too many people fly early war planes as they are not very competetive against La-7,P-51s,latewar spitfires,etc), people looking for historic aircraft engagements will have to go to Combat Theathre arena or participate in special events.
Still.. its worth to check it out since its got 14 day free trial no credit card required

Bottom lin... IL-2 and AH2 are both fine games, if you like WW2 flight sims you should have both in your collection.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

TexMurphy97
10-07-2004, 03:06 PM
@Aaron_GT

I should have empesized the CAN in the first sentence of your quote.

There is a **** load of client server designs out there but in my world there is only one that holds and that is server beeing full master of all data. That means clients send events of changed state to the client. Server sends out positions, vectors, velocities, ect ect plus the changes in events to clients. Client side prediction code handles the flight between updates.

The way a more complex flight model *CAN* affect lag of a game is that there is more data sent. For example if you add engine temperature, a characteristic IL2 has that AH doesnt, you add one set of data that has to be sent. Engine temperatures would only be propagated from server to client but still it takes up more bandwidth then not having them. Server side the temperature is a variable and each variable uses more memory. The temperature has to be calculated based on engine type, throttle setting and altitude. This is an operation that takes cpu.

So adding engine temperature to the flight model means that you, even though very slightly, increase cpu and memory loads on the server and network traffic.

One single item like this isnt that bad, but several small streams create a river.

Though the problem can really be solved by upping memory and cpu on server side. Though you can only scale a 32 bit server so far. One additional thing that can be done is to have separate server processes for chat, mission creations, voice chat, grouping/squading, ect, ect that can if needed be moved to separate machines inorder to create a pure flight engine server.

Bandwidth problem really only comes down to if you want to support 56k modems or not.

Hope that explains what I ment.

Tex

RevvinUK
10-07-2004, 03:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TexMurphy97:
The way a more complex flight model *CAN* affect lag of a game is that there is more data sent. For example if you add engine temperature, a characteristic IL2 has that AH doesnt, you add one set of data that has to be sent. Engine temperatures would only be propagated from server to client but still it takes up more bandwidth then not having them. Server side the temperature is a variable and each variable uses more memory. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You would'nt need to send that temperature data to the server, it only affects you and you're planes ability to continue at a certain speed. The damage model is also mainly done client side because the only time the server needs to know you're damage really is if you lose a wing so that corresponds with what is transmitted to the player who just shot it off and the players in visible range to you. It's the visible damage component that would cause the most problems of extra data in the packets as the server needs to tell other players you've lost a wing, flap, aileron, elevator etc the other stuff such as engine hits and if the sim modelled drag from bullet holes in the wing surface can be done on the client end as it's not visible and ultimately only affects your ability to reach a certain speed.

AKFokerFoder
10-07-2004, 03:43 PM
I would like to extend an invite to any and all to take out the free 14 day trial in Aces High. Go to www.hitechcreations.com (http://www.hitechcreations.com) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The Main Arena has about 300 to 400+ players on a good evening starting about 7 PM Eastern time. There is also a training arena where you will find friendly help, and a Combat Theatre for more realistic WW2 scenarios.

I think you will find Aces High quite challenging and immersive. You may end up playing both AH and IL2.

AKFokerFoder+

VW-IceFire
10-07-2004, 04:41 PM
I went on a few Aces High boards reading their posts about the FM and DM stuff...the funny thing is that I thought I had mistakenly entered a IL2 forum.

Same complaints about the same planes in the same language. It was funny...and enlightening.

RCAF_FB_Cutlass
10-07-2004, 06:54 PM
I have flown boththese sims since they were in demo/beta and enjoy both of them. I have migrated my to IL2FB only because I really don't have time for both and IL2 did not tap into my credit card every month. I also lost some of my interest in AH when it got tactically more complex then I wanted to mess with. There are some things in AH that I really wish FB had, such as being able to land and refuel/arm on the hot plate (hitting re-fly always seems to take away from the heat of the battle. I would like to see a bomber be able to destroy a field's use leading toward a victory or at least cramping the other side's ability to generate sorties as a punishment for failure to defend. Also as mentioned above the ability (in AH) to move within the confines of the cockpit.

I sound like I am pro AH all the way with these comments but remember I am flying IL2FB these days, but am interested in hearing more about the next generation of AH2. As said before they really are BOTH great sims and they both set the standards in there respective niches.

Salute AKFF+

AKSneaky+, AH, http:\\www.aksquad.com (http://www.aksquad.com)
RCAF_FB_Cutlass, IL2FB, http:\\www.rcaffb.com (http://www.rcaffb.com)

BlakJakOfSpades
10-07-2004, 07:29 PM
good post cutlass http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Lemky
10-07-2004, 08:55 PM
Hi Tryed Aces High.Why would you pay $ per month,it is ****,Are you real that hard up to play with 3 hundered online players.Grafics suck,Flight Models suck,The game is second rate.Forgotten Battles is polished and you own it,it is the best it gets.
You asked for it and you got it,But that is just my opinon.

mortoma
10-07-2004, 09:59 PM
You mean Stigler hasn't been in here yet?? He likes to extoll the virtues of nearly every other W.W.II flight sim while putting FB down. I tried Aces High for about two days ( I give everything a chance ). But at the time I had no rudder pedals and I found taking off with the keyboard rudder commands too hard and the landing gear would break off way too easily, as if they were made of match sticks!!! Very unrealistic in just that regard alone. It would take a lot to break the gear struts on just about any W.W.II fighter, I mean on takeoff anyway. That was enough for me, I deleted the thing............

HellToupee
10-08-2004, 01:40 AM
I played Aces High a while back, i loved it, just not the pay to play because i just have no way of paying for it, plus i dont like the hassle.

The graphics went all that great, its not very new, i really didnt like the outside views they just wernt right and looked very weird. The cogpit view not very pretty but easy to read instruments were welcome, in il2 i have to zoom in on them no use in combat. The move your view around stuff was execellent lag was never a problem on my 128k adsl all the way from NX.

Gameplay wise the people were the best part, in il2 no one speaks its all go it alone and blast stuff, but in the mmorg world ill get a warning from others around me that theres a bandit flying down from above at me, while i was shooting down a p47, i got plently of warning about his mates i didnt notice boxing me in.

The missions also great, joined up as escort for bombers with the built in voice stuff we just chatted all the way to the target.

Aside from the cooperation of total strangers, the scale if the fights was also awsome, taking over airfields with 40 odd aircraft on your side vs 30 odd of theres and then joining in the vulch fest of when those 30 odd planes lost the ability to defend their field http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif, and then later that day being on the receiving end of a attack like that.

Il2 has more enjoyable dogfights, but lacks the scale cooperation and purpose of a big mmorg like aces high. If il2 can incorperate with the new 128 player stuff things like captureable airfields like with paratroopers etc, and missions then it will be very great indeed. Would end those people that cry when you shoot them on take off or landing, when its about taking over the field.

hop2002
10-08-2004, 07:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Main Arena is a little problematic as it consists of mostly late war planes (not too many people fly early war planes as they are not very competetive against La-7,P-51s,latewar spitfires,etc) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aces High has the Spit XIV as a late war Spitfire, but it's "perked" and consequently sees hardly any use, making up around 400 out of 100,000 kills in a month.

The main AH Spitfire is the F IX, the mid 1942 version. They haven't modelled the 1943 LF and HF versions that Oleg included.

Jaws2002
10-08-2004, 09:53 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lemky:
Hi Tryed Aces High.Why would you pay $ per month,it is ****,Are you real that hard up to play with 3 hundered online players.Grafics suck,Flight Models suck,The game is second rate.Forgotten Battles is polished and you own it,it is the best it gets.
You asked for it and you got it,But that is just my opinon. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


How long did you play AH???
Looks like you have no idea about it. AH is the #1 OMM flight sim. Does not have the visual quality of FB but there are quite a few areas in witch is better then FB: Head movement, ground vehicles and ships (controllable), high altitude performance closer to reality, and of course the ability to fly 50 people bombing mission and be intercepted by 50+ fighters... priceless.
I think you are the type of guy that downloads the game, jumps straight online, gets OWNED,and then starts whining.
I think I have more experience then you in both sims and let me tell you one thing: you are completely WRONG.

Fehler
10-08-2004, 09:06 PM
I dont know how AH2 stacks up to FB, but a large number of my old squad members (9./JG54) switched to AH2. Perhaps there is a feature there that they like over FB, I dont know.

I really enjoy 1C's game, so I wont switch over, but, if you are wondering, I believe there is a free trial period where you can fly for a while until you have to start a subscription.

People will give you different opinions based on their likes/dislikes, but a test flight will be the best way to decide which you like better.

For those that "Tested" it for 5 minutes, and have a conclusion to give you, be very leary of their opinions. I dont see how you can get into the air, fly a loop, a yo-yo, and land in 5 minutes, let alone test out the FM/DM. So their opinions are probably based on graphics alone.

Now, as far as graphics are concerned, I think you will be hard pressed to find a nicer looking WWII sim than FB. I think I can say that with the utmost confidence!

lil_labbit
10-08-2004, 09:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fehler:
For those that "Tested" it for 5 minutes, and have a conclusion to give you, be very leary of their opinions. I dont see how you can get into the air, fly a loop, a yo-yo, and land in 5 minutes, let alone test out the FM/DM. So their opinions are probably based on graphics alone.

Now, as far as graphics are concerned, I think you will be hard pressed to find a nicer looking WWII sim than FB. I think I can say that with the utmost confidence! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Allmost right on the spot - I did take it up, made a loop too flew around some and then crashed it - I'd seen enough bad graphics http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

5min flying time - I meant (It did need some profiling my hotas and stick and studying beforehand)...

crazyivan1970
10-09-2004, 12:41 AM
AH was a great game back in the day without doubt. MP experiance was excellent.

Dubow
10-09-2004, 01:00 AM
I flew AH for about 1 1/2 years before trying out Il-2. Il-2 is definately more "eye candy", but AH has so much more to offer in the way of missions and strategy. Il-2 is more of a "fightertown" with only the occational tactical target to take out. Vox in AH is far and above what Il-2 has(which is nothing). You can talk to anyone that's tuned to the same channel as you or talk to anyone in your country that's within radio range. This feature(as mentioned previously)is a huge advantage against being jumped or coordinating an attack. Buffs have the option of "foramation" which attaches two drones to your buff that mimic everything you do. You can man the ack at fields and on ships and shoot down attacking planes. There are even PT boats and LVTs available. They have some different planes than FB and FB has some planes that AH does not. The main difference in planes is that AH already has the pacific fighters like four versions of the Corsair, F4F, FM2, F6F, Avenger, SBD Dauntless, Val, Ki-61, etc. The Italian planes are fun to fly also. The maps in AH also rotate every Friday if they haven't been reset. I haven't flown AH2 yet, but may start it up again soon. Try it, you'll probably like it.

TexMurphy97
10-09-2004, 03:13 AM
Some people only date good lookin chicks... some people never look past the visuall appearance of a girl... quite often its the "non model lookin" chick that is the smartest, funniest and best shag on the block...

these people miss out..

Same goes for gamers that only go for graphics...

In a long term gaming "commitment" graphics means -><- much compared to game play.

Tex

Drex
10-13-2004, 12:10 PM
I fly both.

IL2 and AHII are very different, but both are very good at what they do. There is no question that the graphics and FM/DM are more detailed in IL2 then in Aces High, and knowing Hitech, I doubt it will get as detailed as IL2 anytime soon. Download size is a huge factor for his business at this point.

But what he has created is one kickass dogfighting simulator. If you so much enjoy Air -to-Air Combat with WWII planes that have a performance envelope that are based on realistic
data you have something in commen with me and a few hundred others that fly together.

Oh stig here,is a perfectionist when it comes to the historical aspects of recreating WWII fighting. But don't let him fool you, I know he had a blast in the 1990s flying those late night sessions in Warbirds. I think he would tell you
that it is some of his best times with any simulator.(He is a good pilot to boot) But he wants more...got to like that.

I've been simming for many years, but the last 8 years 90% of my simming time has been online. That consisting of Warbirds and then to Aces High. I love the detail of IL2. Few sims have created a more immersive combat experience for me in fact I am enjoying IL2/FB/AEP more and more everyday.

The reason I enjoy Aces High is because it gives me an instant dose of what I crave. At a click of a button, I sit on a runway with an ever changing chaotic aircombat enviroment. In a few minutes I can be headdeep with 3 other bandits with a big furbal 6000 yards away. It gets the blood pumping. I promise, you will come up against some of the best virtual fighters in the world. They know their stuff, and some are just flat out scary good. I'm sure hyperlobby has some very good pilots also, but Aces High gets you in a position to go toe to toe with these guys faster and more often. The community, the sportsmanship, strat, etc is secondary to pure Air Combat bliss.

but of course some will hate it because of its scope. I'm just lucky that I'm the type of person that can enjoy both a riviting immersive combat experience, and a balls to the wall geometry bash. Think some of you here that haven't tried it would probably love it.

but you really need to try it yourself, and 2 Weeks Free with no credit card required, but it is truly worth every penny.

please email me if you need a wingman to have some fun with or to help with the transition.

website: www.hitechcreations.com (http://www.hitechcreations.com)
email: bkdrex@icqmail.com

Drex