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View Full Version : Japanese planes are tough - singleplayer



KilluH
01-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Im havent played a flight sim since EAW. So its been a while. To get to my point, I think Japanese aircraft are tougher to bring down than their true historical counterparts. Specifically, I was under the impression that early war Japanese aircraft could take very little punishment. And in the game they are pretty tough.

I was playing the first mission as an AAF (p-40)pilot (pearl harbor) and had to hit this kate I got behind a lot before it even smoked. I know - I know maybe i didnt hit the vulnerable areas. But ive got 6 .50 cals I think and thats a lot of punishment.

I recall some american pilot from that theatre saying all you had to do was hit them a few times and they burst into flames.

It would be a nice compensation for the super rear gunner situation on AI bombers to make the aircraft more vulnerable

and in regards to the AI. I see AI enemy pilots evade fire from my AI pilots with the simplest of maneuvers. And my guyz blaze all their ammo away. However when im trying to evade with violent manuevers the AI blows me out the sky in no time flat like im just turning in place right in the kill box. Sure maybe Im not a good pilot but compared to the easy sway of evading AI pilots its just... really frustrating.

I know they had to make it challenging but ..I dunno ..it just frustrating.

KilluH
01-01-2005, 11:51 PM
Im havent played a flight sim since EAW. So its been a while. To get to my point, I think Japanese aircraft are tougher to bring down than their true historical counterparts. Specifically, I was under the impression that early war Japanese aircraft could take very little punishment. And in the game they are pretty tough.

I was playing the first mission as an AAF (p-40)pilot (pearl harbor) and had to hit this kate I got behind a lot before it even smoked. I know - I know maybe i didnt hit the vulnerable areas. But ive got 6 .50 cals I think and thats a lot of punishment.

I recall some american pilot from that theatre saying all you had to do was hit them a few times and they burst into flames.

It would be a nice compensation for the super rear gunner situation on AI bombers to make the aircraft more vulnerable

and in regards to the AI. I see AI enemy pilots evade fire from my AI pilots with the simplest of maneuvers. And my guyz blaze all their ammo away. However when im trying to evade with violent manuevers the AI blows me out the sky in no time flat like im just turning in place right in the kill box. Sure maybe Im not a good pilot but compared to the easy sway of evading AI pilots its just... really frustrating.

I know they had to make it challenging but ..I dunno ..it just frustrating.

sapre
01-02-2005, 12:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilluH:
Im havent played a flight sim since EAW. So its been a while. To get to my point, I think Japanese aircraft are tougher to bring down than their true historical counterparts. Specifically, I was under the impression that early war Japanese aircraft could take very little punishment. And in the game they are pretty tough.

I was playing the first mission as an AAF (p-40)pilot (pearl harbor) and had to hit this kate I got behind a lot before it even smoked. I know - I know maybe i didnt hit the vulnerable areas. But ive got 6 .50 cals I think and thats a lot of punishment.

I recall some american pilot from that theatre saying all you had to do was hit them a few times and they burst into flames.

It would be a nice compensation for the super rear gunner situation on AI bombers to make the aircraft more vulnerable

and in regards to the AI. I see AI enemy pilots evade fire from my AI pilots with the simplest of maneuvers. And my guyz blaze all their ammo away. However when im trying to evade with violent manuevers the AI blows me out the sky in no time flat like im just turning in place right in the kill box. Sure maybe Im not a good pilot but compared to the easy sway of evading AI pilots its just... really frustrating.

I know they had to make it challenging but ..I dunno ..it just frustrating. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Turn on arcade=1 and see if your bullet is actually hitting your target.
I can easily set fire or kill pilot of Kate with 2 second burst from P40E.
So you CAN easily make Japanese planes "burst into flames".
And your perosonal "I think" or "I remember" has little value when discussing about Flight Model.

fordfan25
01-02-2005, 12:29 AM
the zeros are about right i think but not sure about some of the others.

what does arcade=1 actully do ?

actionhank1786
01-02-2005, 12:36 AM
It's all about placement my goodman.
You can put a ton of rounds into the fusalage, and as long as there's no fuel tank there, the most you may to is put a few holes into his fancy bird.
Put them into the engine, wings, fuel tanks, or cockpit and you'll get a very different effect.
Also, make sure you check you bullet dispersion too.
I have mine set at about 250-300 meters, if it's set at 500 and you're up close, you may end up putting most of your rounds around him, not in him.

actionhank1786
01-02-2005, 12:39 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by fordfan25:
the zeros are about right i think but not sure about some of the others.

what does arcade=1 actully do ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>]

I think it shows the hit bubbles.
If i remember right from Forgotten Battles (not sure if it's still the same) there would be a point where the bullet hit, and then Arrows from explosive Shrapenel and whatnot.

KilluH
01-02-2005, 12:44 AM
thanks ill check the dispertion, happy new year

HotelBushranger
01-02-2005, 01:31 AM
You said in pearl harbour, that you couldn't take them down with 6 .50 cals, the PH P-40s were B variants I thinl, or C, and they had 2 .50 cals and 4 .30 cals in the wings, so the 6 .50 cals of the P-40E/N's makes A LOT of difference. But yeah id say the jap planes are around good, it all depends were you hit it, and a lot of luck lol i can pump hundreds of rounds into a Zero, then refly and get him with a half second burst, so it depends.

Cheers,
HBR

KilluH
01-02-2005, 01:34 AM
thanks hotel

i tried it with the guns set to 300 and it made a difference.

i unfortunately crash landed on my way back to base and flipped the plane nose over

still i made one flame! the 4 .30 cals, thats interesting

flemsha
01-02-2005, 04:56 AM
I find the Japanese planes to be about as tough as I expect them to be, especially after coming from playing FB where the LW/Russian planes could take some punishment the Japanese aircraft are mostly lightweights. Quick bursts of 50cal do the job, and even the earlier P-40B with 30cals and 50cals can still do alot of damage very quickly... and then when you take an F4U-1C with 4 20mm cannons... one burst and most Japanese planes are doing a trip to the ground in flames.

NorrisMcWhirter
01-02-2005, 05:10 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilluH:
Im havent played a flight sim since EAW. So its been a while. To get to my point, I think Japanese aircraft are tougher to bring down than their true historical counterparts. Specifically, I was under the impression that early war Japanese aircraft could take very little punishment. And in the game they are pretty tough.

I was playing the first mission as an AAF (p-40)pilot (pearl harbor) and had to hit this kate I got behind a lot before it even smoked. I know - I know maybe i didnt hit the vulnerable areas. But ive got 6 .50 cals I think and thats a lot of punishment.

I recall some american pilot from that theatre saying all you had to do was hit them a few times and they burst into flames.

It would be a nice compensation for the super rear gunner situation on AI bombers to make the aircraft more vulnerable

and in regards to the AI. I see AI enemy pilots evade fire from my AI pilots with the simplest of maneuvers. And my guyz blaze all their ammo away. However when im trying to evade with violent manuevers the AI blows me out the sky in no time flat like im just turning in place right in the kill box. Sure maybe Im not a good pilot but compared to the easy sway of evading AI pilots its just... really frustrating.

I know they had to make it challenging but ..I dunno ..it just frustrating. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I think Japanese aircraft are tougher to bring down than their true historical counterparts. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Shot down many Japanese planes IRL?

You have to be joking, yes? The Japanese planes are by far the easiest to destroy and even a very short burst at convergence will take them down with the possible exception of the Ki84 which was tougher.

If you want hard, try flying ~1941 LW vs VVS (Lagg3, in particular), then come back and complain about how hard planes are to take down.

I suppose it makes a change from saying the .50s are too weak.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Cheers,
Norris

SeaFireLIV
01-02-2005, 05:15 AM
Just practise.

For instance Japanese aircraft were in general far better than American at the start of the War, so it SHOULD be harder to fight, but out-of-the-box made it silly. I was shooting down zeros with such ease that the gnawing feeling at the back of my mind began to get at me. Shouldn`t the ALLIES be in trouble at this point in the war?

But I expected this would be done. Anyway, with the patch and fiddling with difficulty settings I really feel like how it must have been at the time. And just about every Japanese plane burns and breaks up as easy as matchsticks once you learn to fly right and aim on target. I`m still amazed at the fragility of Jap aircraft.

Atomic_Marten
01-02-2005, 05:45 AM
I found out that I can hammer a Zero with 0.50 more easily b4 then in 3.03, but it is still very effective weapon. A short burst in any area of enemy aircraft (except for those who wear some armor protection of course) and it should receive significant damage.

About B5N2s, I don't know it seems to me that they are somewhat tougher to shot down than Zero's, but then again everyting in this game is tougher than Zero http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

Chuck_Older
01-02-2005, 07:16 AM
Norris, for a change I have to disagree with you on a couple points.

Your query about how many japanese planes Killuh has shot down in real life works both ways, you know. He has as much inexperience in this feild as you, so if his impressions are wrong, your can be, too

I have long thought the Kate to be very tough and a bit odd compared to it's reputation.

I am in the process right now of making an AVG campaign, and I'm play testing a lot of offline things. A Kate managed to PK me when I was 100 yards in front of it last night. I was a little surprised, but then weird things happen in real life, too

But I set up a mission with Kates against H81A-2s. I used three tactics:

1) high side attack
2) high dive from ~2000 feet higher than target, astern
3) low angle attack

The low angle attack worked best. I could zoom up over the target from below, and he'd never touch me

The high side attack always put me at an angle where I couldn't yet bring my guns to bear, but somehow the gunner could manage to swivel his gun to about 75* deflection and get me with the first shot

The High dive was iffy because the target was so small I lost it under the nose, and the target's tactic of a shallow dive meant that we were much closer to the ground than I though, meaning I nearly augured in twice

When I hit the Kate, bits fly off, and maybe I get a fuel leak. I used up a whole load of ammo to bring one down(I am more than a fair shot)

Same mission, but substitute Vals for the Kates. Same tactics. Same results from tactics, but with the exception that in three passes, two targets were smoking heavily

Now some Japanese planes, like the Ki-43, seem tough but it's an illusion. just hit it in the wing root and it's a flying cigarette lighter. But I've hit the Kate all over, with 4 .30s and two .50s, and with 6 .50s, and the results are the same- hard to bring one down.

The Kate was this tough? I can beleive it was tougher than a plane it meant to replace. that's obvious. But I felt like I was shooting at a Sturmovik with a Bf109E-4 that ran out of cannon rounds last night.

G4Ms, which were tougher than their real-life reputation by far, I can smoke and flame in one pass. The B5N, no. I shot down nine SB SM-103s with limited ammo during playtesting (yes vulnerability was on http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ) and there were 32 of them against my four H81A-2s. Against 4 B5Ns, using the same tactics, I can get shot down very easily before the first victory. I'd say it was my tactics, but they are sound against all other targets as far as I can see. Which makes me feel the B5N is a bit of an oddity

HARD_Sarge
01-02-2005, 07:44 AM
Hi SeaFireIV
yea but mate, just think, we (most of us at least) would be the Experten, of the Expertens, if this was the real deal, how many Sim combats have you been in, and how much do you know about the plane you are flying and the plane you are fighting

if this is 1941, and you on the tail of a Zero, and just can't get the sight right, and he starts to turn, more then likely, you are going to pull your nose up and go around, or break and find a new target, the real pilots didn't know yet that they couldn't turn with the Zero

so to say that the JP planes are easier to down then you think they should be, just remember, you are better then any of the Allied pilots of the time

KiluH
for the Kates, aim for the cockpit, very little to no armor, a very short brust and you can kill the pilot or gunner, if the gunner, then you got some time to set up and aim for the engine, if you get the pilot, no need !

Plus in this game, dead six is not the best place to be to get kills, if possible, aim for the wingroot, on target, you can saw the wing off, blow up the fuel tank, lead is off a bit far, you got a chance to hit the engine, lead is off high, you got a chance to hit the cockpit, lead off low, you may tear the wing/wingtip off, lead is short, you may damage the tail

if you think the Kate is tuff, try attacking the TBF, now that is a tuff bird

I have had missions were I Was happy to drop one plane using all my ammo, and others where I dropped 5 in row, you hit it right, it is going down, hit it wrong, it going to smoke and drop off parts, but fly forever

HARD_Sarge

KilluH
01-02-2005, 09:57 AM
thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

actionhank1786
01-02-2005, 11:17 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KilluH:
thanks guys http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Upgrade the the F4U-C, you'll have 20mm, i dont think knocking planes out of the sky will be a problem anymore! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif