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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:48 PM
Like many others my impression of FB ( & IL ) is that with each patch/upgrade the indigenous russian aircraft have got better and the german and allied made aircraft have got worse and this view has been expressed by many on this forum, and with the latest patch this trend seems more obvious than ever. WE ARE BEING PUNISHED!
At this rate you'll need a F16 to shoot down a Lagg.
Off you all go then... thats it, flame away....

had to pass the time while waiting for hardballs aircraft viewer to download.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 05:48 PM
Like many others my impression of FB ( & IL ) is that with each patch/upgrade the indigenous russian aircraft have got better and the german and allied made aircraft have got worse and this view has been expressed by many on this forum, and with the latest patch this trend seems more obvious than ever. WE ARE BEING PUNISHED!
At this rate you'll need a F16 to shoot down a Lagg.
Off you all go then... thats it, flame away....

had to pass the time while waiting for hardballs aircraft viewer to download.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:00 PM
flapbuster wrote:
- Like many others my impression of FB ( & IL ) is
- that with each patch/upgrade the indigenous russian
- aircraft have got better and the german and allied
- made aircraft have got worse and this view has been
- expressed by many on this forum, and with the latest
- patch this trend seems more obvious than ever. WE
- ARE BEING PUNISHED!

When he finds the time to fly online, Oleg prefers to fly a 109. Probably he is masochistic? Or probably he's just a good pilot that tries to get the most from the plane. Who knows!

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:25 PM
Actually with the latest few patches the Russian planes have been brought down to a more realistic level making the German planes equal or better competitors. Frankly, I would fly German planes against Russian any day. German planes are just much better.

_____________________________________

When does a game end being a game and become a simulator? Interesting questions to ponder while waiting, from Aces-High.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:34 PM
Aces-High wrote:
I would fly German planes
- against Russian any day. German planes are just
- much better.

I agree - the 109 is my fave and I thought I was becoming resonably proficient with it, with all its faults! but since the last patch it has become virtually a straight line aircraft, the gentlest turn results in a stall and I've taken to opening the radiators on take-off in order to delay overheating as long as possible. Canon ammos better though./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:51 PM
Really? So... you actually need those FW-190 guns to be like what?... self pointing and firing or something in order to bring down my LA-7 on the first pass?!

Yes, the P-47 needs to have the engine horsepower modelling reflect turbo boost beyong idle and be just slighlty less of a pig in a turn. However, for the most part, I find the German gear to still have the advantage. This is especially true when you consider that in reality and in spite of increased aircraft production, the Germans did not field anything close to the same numbers of planes in a dogfight as the Allies during the last couple of years of the war. If guns that take out LA-7 on the fist pass and jets engines aren't enough, I'd suggest a flight lesson or two!

I just wonder how the modelling of the P-51-D will be. This is a plane I have over 1,200 real life hours in!

Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:57 PM
I agree the fb patches are a bit like the il2 patches where where the luftwaffe performance seem to be diminished patch by patch.

And all this stuff about olegs favourite plane being 109 dosn't mean he isn't gonna undermodel it cos they sure are at the moment. This has gone on for too long now and i think more and more people are realising the trend.

Seems to me he is looking after his country folk before anyone else, just look at the FM bugs on VVS planes the majority of which all have a posotive effect on performance like ridiculous 15 sec turn times, ability to take several 30mm rounds with damge models that a 34 tank would be proud of where as luftwaffe and US AC always seem to suffer from negative bugs eg: being underpowered, incapabe of reaching top speed, one hit engine kills, ridiculous overheating, poor climb, poor turn that is the one that realy bugs me have 109's ever been given their rated turn NO.

The p47 still dosn't perform as it should so i hate to think what the p51 and spit are gonna be like suppose only time will tell.

I know they can still be flown succesfuly but if the FM's where as should be everyone will be happy and at least VVS will have some competition.

I have said before their are probably as many if not more people who's fav AC are 109's, 190's, p47's etc etc dont see why oleg can't be fair and let em fly their FAV ride with a decent FM regardless of Nationality....





Message Edited on 09/15/0306:28PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 06:58 PM
damn posted twice




Message Edited on 09/15/0306:21PM by johno__UK

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 07:01 PM
LuckyBoy1 wrote:
Really? So... you actually need those FW-190 guns
- to be like what?... self pointing and firing or
- something in order to bring down my LA-7 on the
- first pass?!

looks like I need some help somewhere, if the German planes are so good why do you fly the UFO.

I think people will be disappointed with the Mustang, I've never had too much trouble against the AI planes.

Post your thoughts when you've assesed it I'd be interested to hear your views.


Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 07:50 PM
You have to live with what you got! That or go back to Jane's, BOB or SWOTL! What can you do ... you adapt and keep on flying and hey if its that bad switch and fly the Russian planes...who cares flying and fighting is what its all about. Oleg plays his games we play ours! Despite all the vitriole that is spewed on this forum this is the most fun I have had since I discovered girls!!!


Happy hunting and check six!

Tony Ascaso, RN

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:08 PM
There are still some VVS biased things, like Lagg3 DM and FM and I-16 DM.. now these planes fly the most in VEF, and Blue is getting arses kicked because of these super birds.. Try shoot down a Lagg3 in a 109 F-2,then do the same other way aroumd.. makes me laugh. Same for I-16. Some german weapons are still joke compared to VVS counterparts.. like MG17.. it has no effect whatsoever on I-16.. has been like this for two years. Try take a Emil and waste 2000 rounds of Mg17 and you still can't down I-16.. Only PK but even that happens very very very rarely. Same for Lagg3, Except 500 rounds can down it eventually. Thank god MG151/20 is little better now and MK108 is devastating.. but german MGs are still a joke /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif Compare MG131 to Russian UBS.. and you laugh /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I can down German birds from 1000 meters, even without the UBS bullet loosing any speed. Compare this to MG131 and MG17, which bullets start to fall down after 200 meters. This also affacts Us weapons, as the Single UBS on Mig3 is far more effective than 8x .50cals on a P-47. Funny isn't it? Fortunalety 1.11 has fixxed most VVS-biased things, but there is still lot to do!



____________________________________



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XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:14 PM
Well I dunno I don't do too many aircraft comparisons. Yet online I went through a bunch of aircraft trying to find one that fit my style. Seeing as how all the campaigns I have flown were early war campaigns.
The Yak-9 I found while weak on the guns compared to heavy hitting cannons fits my style of flying. Up untill I got into it I was getting blasted by everyone. Even in the I-16 which is way out gunned, climbed, and run. I know it well though I put up a better fight than in anything else.

I can see with some flying the FW-190, and BF-109 are good aircraft. I didn't like the Yak's or the Lagg's any though. Then again getting used to human opponents made a difference I steadily improved. However I felt a definite advantage in the Yak-9. All I can say is I think everyone has a flying style, and a aircraft to suite them. Once they figure it out they're deadly.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:29 PM
what say instead of saying this compared to this is fair or not instead the documented (and remember these are quite often biased as well by the manufacturers) performance be the mark. If I16's were capable of wasting any Axis plane so be it....who gives a hoot and a holler if it is fair.

I want it simply as real as possible....so unless someone can say "the 109 is not turning right as it is documented they could make a 200m radius turn at 300km/hr. indefinately as stated in X book by X author" or the like, it just sounds like sour grapes to me.

Also it would be my "guess" that getting a FM to work all together and right is quite difficult. Change elevator effect and drag changes, drag changes and shifts load on engine, engine load adjusts temps...etc.. So to simply say Oh this is wrong and change that and nothing else would in my guess be difficult at best.

Patience, and logical responses perhaps the quickest route to perfection.

....Billfish / K2 / Kelly....
Wielder of the Iron Skillet
....."Husband Tamer".....
Courage~Honor~Tenacity

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:31 PM
johno__UK wrote:
- I agree the fb patches are a bit like the il2
- patches where where the luftwaffe performance seem
- to be diminished patch by patch.
-
- And all this stuff about olegs favourite plane
- being 109 dosn't mean he isn't gonna undermodel it
- cos they sure are at the moment. This has gone on
- for too long now and i think more and more people
- are realising the trend.
-
-
- Seems to me he is looking after his country folk
- before anyone else, just look at the FM bugs on VVS
- planes the majority of which all have a posotive
- effect on performance like ridiculous 15 sec turn
- times, ability to take several 30mm rounds with
- damge models that a 34 tank would be proud of where
- as luftwaffe and US AC always seem to suffer from
- negative bugs eg: being underpowered, incapabe of
- reaching top speed, one hit engine kills, ridiculous
- overheating, poor climb, poor turn that is the one
- that realy bugs me have 109's ever been given their
- rated turn NO.
-
-
- The p47 still dosn't perform as it should so i
- hate to think what the p51 and spit are gonna be
- like suppose only time will tell.
-
-
- I know they can still be flown succesfuly but if
- the FM's where as should be everyone will be happy
- and at least VVS will have some competition.
-
-
- I have said before their are probably as many if
- not more people who's fav AC are 109's, 190's, p47's
- etc etc dont see why oleg can't be fair and let em
- fly their FAV ride with a decent FM regardless of
- Nationality....
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
- Message Edited on 09/15/03 06:28PM by johno__UK



Agree with man

La7 is overmodelled
BI its made by NASA, cause its a space shuttle
AND 190's its a bit tuned dow in speed

I dont need overmodelled plane to shoot down any plane in FB i just want it correct.

LUFTWHINNERS ITS TIME TO FIGHT!!!!!
COME TO BATTLE!!!!!!!!

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 08:31 PM
I think in Real Life you had the radiator flaps on full open before take off anyway as the 109 would heat up very quickly on the ground. And I think the same as on landing as they act as a flap as well as opening the radiator.

Read Mark Hanna's low down of flying the 109 here:

http://www.bf109.com/frameset.html

Under "Flying the 109" and a bit further down the page he mentions opening the radiator.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:14 PM
As Luke Skywalker said in Star Wars, "Good against remotes is one thing". Good against the living, well that's another story"! Why are you busting Oleg over something that hasn't even happened yet? If you have some scientific data supporting your position, fork it over! Until then, try to stop with the international bashing; you are making it harder to be proud to be an American!.

I fly the LA-7 because it can outperform the enemy fighter in at least one area. This edge, be it ability to gain altitude faster or turn faster or just plain outrun the enemy varies depending on which plane I'm up against. I then try to force the opponent to compete in that area. When I'm successful at forcing the issue, I win. When the guy like, actually uses his brain and doesn't fall for it, I'm toast! Welcome to WWII air combat my friend!

Last night, I downed 6 109's in a coop while flying a bucke... I mean P-47. If the modelling is getting progressively worse, why is this the most kills I've ever had in a P-47?


Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:14 PM
Thanks Xnomad - interesting site ( even though it put my cpu in a loop and the temp shot up! Appropriate for a 109 site)
Still , some interesting stuff it'll take a while to digest, perhaps I can pick up a few pointers.

Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:21 PM
p47 better now
does the la7 fall apart still at 700km or whatever?
la7 ma fav plane, i like to dogfight rather than b n z /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 09:23 PM
LuckyBoy1 wrote:
- As Luke Skywalker said in Star Wars, "Good against
- remotes is one thing". Good against the living,
- well that's another story"!

I'm not busting anyone, its just that I think people will have unrealisic expectations of the Mustang, it will be the same if they make a spitfire. How am I making it hard to be proud to be American? I'm English.

Your experience of playing this game is obviously different from mine, and it is a game, if it was a true sim there would be no "realisim" settings and definitely no cockpit off mode!


Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:16 PM
Nah! I don't buy it. I fly 109s about 98% of the time online. As far as I'm concerned if the plane set on the server is historically limited and all the realism settings are on it evens out the odds alot. Fly smart, you win. Fly dumb, you lose.

I'm not the best pilot nor am I the best shot. But if I can hold my own on a server with my E4 against P-40s and Hurris then anybody can.

No Luftwhining from me.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:22 PM
Germans are better now...

http://www.vfa25.com/sigs/griffon.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:26 PM
LilHorse wrote:
- Nah! I don't buy it. I fly 109s about 98% of the
- time online. As far as I'm concerned if the plane
- set on the server is historically limited and all
- the realism settings are on it evens out the odds
- alot. Fly smart, you win. Fly dumb, you lose.
-
- I'm not the best pilot nor am I the best shot. But
- if I can hold my own on a server with my E4 against
- P-40s and Hurris then anybody can.
-
- No Luftwhining from me.


I agree with you,Horse. I'm beginning to think we're getting people who can't fly or don't want to take the time to minimize the 109's faults. If you fly a plane long enough,you'll get good at it. Just my opinion...

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:38 PM
LilHorse wrote:
- Nah! I don't buy it. I fly 109s about 98% of the
- time online. As far as I'm concerned if the plane
- set on the server is historically limited and all
- the realism settings are on it evens out the odds
- alot. Fly smart, you win. Fly dumb, you lose.
-
- I'm not the best pilot nor am I the best shot. But
- if I can hold my own on a server with my E4 against
- P-40s and Hurris then anybody can.
-
- No Luftwhining from me.
-
-
-
-
-

I`m with you on that one LilHorse.

V!

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 10:40 PM
LuckyBoy1 wrote:
- I just wonder how the modelling of the P-51-D will
- be. This is a plane I have over 1,200 real life
- hours in!

Wow! I will look forward to your comments on the FB P-51D with interest.

Regards,

RocketDog.

PS - any chance of a trip sometime? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:20 PM
I wondered how long it would be before the UBI-Comissars came out of the woodwork.


Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:23 PM
Yeah me too...

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:27 PM
Who`s UBI commisars? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:37 PM
Whingers!/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

<center>http://homepage.ntlworld.com/steve.gorman/mortimer3.jpg

Nevermore!</center>

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:42 PM
The "Oleg is biased" threads really are tiresome. If he was biased, why would he have improved 190 performance so much? There are CEM issues with the 109 but, that is not an indication of bias. The P-39, which is American made of course, can hardly be called undermodeled. If you are frustrated with the the 109E, G10 or K, then try the 109G2 or Fw190 until a later patch comes out.

XyZspineZyX
09-15-2003, 11:42 PM
FB is not Shooting Game or FPS.

It's a 'Simulation' Game.
I don't see any serious faults in FB1.11 according to data chart and history.

If you want that kind of perfect(?) balance, go for FPS like Quake etc. or go play War(Star)Craft.
They whine day by day, hour by hour about balance. If they win, that prove his cleverness. If they lose, that prove serious balance problem in game.
Is there any difference in this thread?

You may think you are simmer, but I think you are just a poor shooting game boy if you whine like this. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

I'm almost starting to hate online simmers.

Do you really want to make both sides same? A is superior in climb, B is superior in speed?

I think Oleg should make a "balanced arcade version FB" for those whiners. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
(make it CONSOLE ONLY to see them less in forum. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif )

=======================================
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7200rpm 60G HDD

=815=Squadron in South Korea
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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:05 AM
15 to 16 second turn rates sustained in La-5F through 7's and ability to do 18 second loops sustained, hummm, I'd definitly class this as a 'shoot em up game'. LoL /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:10 AM
I remember when Oleg used to fly with us on the UBI dedicated servers. He flew his 109 exclusively. I was in an LA5FN one day and got him 2-3 times in a row. When the next patch came out, the LA5FN had been somewhat neutered, hehe.

J/K, but I do miss flying with him and I did down him the 2-3 times./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:10 AM
Actually RocketDog, it was a Vietnam war era surplus P-51 that we converted for dusting on our farm. But in the fall, my brother would help me convert it back for some pylon racing! Remember, it's just a game! You will probably take to the online version faster because you don't expect it to act like the real thing because you have no real idea what the real thing acts like!!! This is not a cut on you, it's just to show that my insights really won't count for a lot unless it flies just like the real thing.

Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:15 AM
LuckyBoy1,what kind of farm do you live on? I live on a cattle farm,so we don't have any dusters,but nevertheless, I've never heard of a P-51 cropduster. That must be awesome! I've seen some bi-plane dusters,but they must've paled in comparison to YOUR ride!

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:33 AM
In il2 age, I'm interesting in fly LW's 109G6ASw/MK108, and P39w/37mm. I think this time, P39's FM and DM is most resonalbe.

In FB 1.0, I spend long time to fly 109s and all VVS aircraft. I think it is well balanced.

Those time I hate 190s.

In FB 1.1B, I suddenly found 190 is the most fun plane. The 190s performance is like <<Butcher bird>> said. that things deeply impressed me, And I spend a lot of time to excisemeself to become a 190 ACE. And I do it. Can Use 190A5 to down and VVS figters in any situation.

But in FB 1.11, I lost my dream. 190's FM is adjust to worse than 1.1B, and very very bad thing is not that. OLEG have made a VVS OLEG version MG151/20mm cannon, I called it "MiniCannon brand OLEG". Then My 190's DM has 6 guns: 2xMG17-7.92mm, 4xOLEG brand joke mini gun. But even 4canon+2gun changed to 6machinegun, it also cant mach VVS side 6 gun's damage level, like P40s.

This time I fly 190 on the sky, try hard to make a pass to some La5, La7's route, and blast my total 6guns, and hit my bullet deeply on the La5la7's body, most time In One PASS I CAN MAKE 10+ CANON BULLETS HIT, But Nothing happend, except some smoke effect.

I hate this. But I cant change that things... OLEG is OLEG.

Now I try to adjust 190's Conversi from my favorite 300metes[BNZ], to incredibale 120metes. For more Damage effect. It had make a little useful. But...

A Saber becomes to a fruitknife...realy...

I hope OLEG can fix it next patch.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:44 AM
Whatever flight errors I see seem to be the result of managing a highly complicated and complex system of real time physics calculations to govern the performance of multitudes of aircraft in a demanding and competitive environment that is war.

From what I understand...the only significant bias present is the people on this forum who point fingers at the slightest provocation and make grand sweeping generalizations about people based on their nationality when actual established behaviors point otherwise.

From what I hear...Oleg's favorite planes are in the Luftwaffe camp not with the VVS. What we are more than likely seeing is the difference of modeling aircraft with very different performances and strengths. From the more historically correct members on this forum and from several sources...its easy to see that Russian aircraft were generally lighter and more designed to dogfight and provided tactical airpower to the Russian army...German aircraft were designed for speed and firepower to allow air superiority for their various bliz style attacks in Europe.

Getting a flight model in a game that is limited by the numbers of calcuations it can do must be a difficult process. Juggling mass quantities of calcuations cannot be easy...even for the proficient mathematician out there.

FM's are less of a science and more of an art. Remember that.

http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:48 AM
- A Saber becomes to a fruitknife...realy...


Fruit Knives must have excessive roll rates too.


http://forums.ubi.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif





"We will welcome them with bullets and shoes."

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:17 AM
if the german planes are so crap why do you fly them ??

flapbuster wrote:
- looks like I need some help somewhere, if the German
- planes are so good why do you fly the UFO.

you really need to stop moaning & shut up

yes the LA is way awesome & the LaGG is mega strong but you also sound way down on skill there flapbuster

flapbuster wrote:
the gentlest turn results in a stall

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:22 AM
I like the LaGG and the LA, shame that the Leningrad campaign is so incredibly tedious and that the main fighter campaign is only YAKS :|

BF-109 and FW-190 are outstanding aircraft in this game, and it certainly is the pilot that makes the difference...

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:32 AM
it may be ny imagination but the 190 seems even more bullet proof and the mk108 wing cannon variants even more deadly

<center> http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0SQDLAtUWiWZ3BKw19!aryp7v3C1h1DuNwpHOOuqhlraGSyMAY KiPEOZAA1OBgsLu*Sa0UQ2my0PiFyvNkJ5K7Clsoy7yNtEvOXY nHDuPNiotpZACY2oJxw/aircraftround.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:38 AM
flapbuster wrote:
- Like many others my impression of FB ( & IL ) is
- that with each patch/upgrade the indigenous russian
- aircraft have got better and the german and allied
- made aircraft have got worse and this view has been
- expressed by many on this forum, and with the latest
- patch this trend seems more obvious than ever. WE
- ARE BEING PUNISHED!
- At this rate you'll need a F16 to shoot down a Lagg.
- Off you all go then... thats it, flame away....

*YAWN* Thanks.. I needed that extra push.. I can hit the hey now.



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XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:20 AM
Just so I'm reading correctly and not just over-tired, LuckyBoy, are you saying that you own a P51D or did I miss the joke, again?!?/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

If not a joke, you must have some great pics of that pretty bird. Did the plane ever actually fly in combat? What is it's serial number? I'd love to check out it's history.

_______________________________________
çk?¯kT 2003**

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 07:52 AM
Vindictive is a harsh description. My ex-wife, now that #^&ch is vindictive. I think biased would be a better choice. But we all know what opinions are like. lol

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:30 AM
FLY CFSIII

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 08:31 AM
ooooooooops forgot /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:29 AM
I agree.
I have made some trial at FB with radiator settings, propeller-pitch fuelmix etc. My plane is ofcourse trimmed as good as I can.
The me 109F will never reach its top-speed of 550km/h at sealevel, not with 110% throttle, radiators closed. It boiles within a couple of seconds.
Reduce the topspeed with 100km/h at the LW-planes.

The AI-plane for instance the I-16 flies almost as fast as the Me curves better and climbes better. Take a look at the Virtual Eastern Front

http://66.114.65.249/vov/missions.php?dayofmissions=2003-09-15

The figures cant be explained that the OKL-planes are flown by better pilots.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:50 AM
Whether it's accurate or not I can agree fully that the BF-109 turns like a slug. I can't commend it's climb, or it's speed.
Which to me says get altitude long before you engage. Hit and run for home or until you have breathing room to climb up again. If you find yourself with a guy on your 6 o'clock below 1500 feet you might as well hit the silk or hope he's greener than green...like "How do I take off again?" green.

I've been killed planty of times by BF-109's. It mostly happens when you catch a BF-109 in a bad situation which forces him into turn fighting. While chasing him his wingman dives in behind you and gets you. Which is easy because your only turning as much as your target. So as long as your with other players who watch out for their teamates your good to cook. However in a free for all where everyone is doing their own thing I wouldn't fly one for sure.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 09:52 AM
I dunno if it's that badly done really?

the Fw190 will shred the LaGG with a 1 second burst from 150 metres and all other fighters that I've tested for that matter. In offline campaigns I have found both sides planes to be very effective and same for online too.

I have noticed that the VVS cannons and Mgs are pretty effective and wonder if they are accurate? That said, I can get max. 2-3 kills off a Yak3 with its ammo. Other threads I've seen have suggested that they were OK but they seem very effective now. Read somewhere here they had a higher rof than LW guns so maybe that's it.

I'll test the speed but never felt the F4 to be slow and certainly the I16 is a nuisance but can always extend away from it. Under what conditions could F4 be expected to give that speed? 100% fuel, full load out, what altitude?

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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:04 AM
- flapbuster wrote:
-- looks like I need some help somewhere, if the German
-- planes are so good why do you fly the UFO.
-
- you really need to stop moaning & shut up
-
- yes the LA is way awesome & the LaGG is mega strong
- but you also sound way down on skill there
- flapbuster
-
- You really need to get a sense of humour! I started this post just to draw out the UBI-Comissars - you know- people like you who over react to any post with the word "Oleg" in its title.
Are you american? they always seem to take everything at face value - only an american would quote a "star wars" script.
Life must be pretty uncultered down there on the farm.


-
-



Tedious unoriginal wooly philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 10:38 AM
VW-IceFire wrote:

- Whatever flight errors I see seem to be the result
- of managing a highly complicated and complex system
- of real time physics calculations to govern the
- performance of multitudes of aircraft in a demanding
- and competitive environment that is war.
-
- From what I understand...the only significant bias
- present is the people on this forum who point
- fingers at the slightest provocation and make grand
- sweeping generalizations about people based on their
- nationality when actual established behaviors point
- otherwise.


I think the point some people are trying to get across is that the majority of the FM issues are like this:

Possotive FM bugs eg: uber turn, t34 damage mdels, not overheating, exceeding spec... VVS have

Negative FM bugs eg: ridiculous overheating, inability to reach top speed, underturning, weak damage models...
Luftwaffe have

Are you saying this is pure coincidence due to programing difficulties and that the only bias is from people on this forum pointing fingers at the slightest provocation?

Lol dont make me laugh that is a bit of an insult to alot of people considering its been the trend since il2 was released. If the problems seemed evenly spread across all the AC then people wouldnt even mention bias but unfortunately they arnt so lets not pretend otherwise.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 11:01 AM
"I'll test the speed but never felt the F4 to be slow and certainly the I16 is a nuisance but can always extend away from it. Under what conditions could F4 be expected to give that speed? 100% fuel, full load out, what altitude? "

100% fuel no bombs, rockets, etc. If I recal I was in a slight climb at under 1500 feet, and was getting 350.
I get around 260 in the I-16 at the same angle as it's pretty much my standard climb angle of 5 degree's. Thats when I both trying to cover ground, and gain altitude at the same time.

Flat and level below 2800 feet I get 320-330 in the I-16. I actually can't recall my flat and level speed for the BF-109. I just remember looking at speedometer, and thinking "I thought this thing was supposed to be able to really climb?"
I suppose maybe 400-450 would be in the flat and level range. Which is fast, but I can crank a P-40 up there as well.

Of course I could very well be simply doing something wrong. I used to think HE-111's were slow until I recently figured out how to make one cruise at 400+

I'll try it again when I get home maybe I had the radiator open or something. Although I believe they were at position 2, and throttle was at 90% trying to keep from overheating.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 12:38 PM
ok - i'll give it a go!

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She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:04 PM
Its a difficult topic to discuss.
There is no doubt that at all times after mid-1942 USSR had in production, low altitude fighters which were optimised for air domination, and in that field were superior, by a good deal to any other fighters of the time, German or allied.
German built mid-altitutude planes, heavier and with stronger armament - to destroy bombers and for ground attack. Mind you, before war USSR had samples of 109s as well as all other German planes, and so new planes were developed accordingly.
After 1943 Germany had problems with resources and after that it was impossible to build or develop good planes for mass production.
190 was a heavy, altitude fighter from the start and was not suited for eastern front. Soviet pilots remember that only 109s were a threat in a dogfightWestern Allies had lots of alluminium, they built very nice large planes that could carry bombs far. They did not have ground forces either, so they never needed a manouvrable fighter, and thus never built one.

It is clear that the only planes intended for low altitude dogfight were Soviet planes. And I see no reason why in IL2, where ppl fight at ~1000m one would expect a different picture.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:30 PM
johno__UK wrote:

- Negative FM bugs eg: ridiculous overheating,
- inability to reach top speed, underturning, weak
- damage models...

Wow - I didn't know that overmodelled 190 roll rate
was a negative thing for the 190. Or the likely overmodelling
of the 109 high speed roll rate.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 01:47 PM
I did some rough tests on the F4.

100% fuel, default weaponry, radiator closed. Trimmed (more or less) for level flight.

This is what I got

130m 510km/h IAS
1000m 500km/h IAS (533km/h TAS)
6000m 450km/h IAS (627km/h TAS)

This is taken from instrumentation as I don't use speed bar and doesn't seem so far off data in object viewer. But I have no idea whether those data are accurate or whether any other data people have are more accurate than those in the object viewer.

I didn't test climb rate as always felt that to be very good, but that don't make it accurate!

http://www.endlager.net/fis/pix/banners/fis_banner_07.gif


She turned me into a newt, but I got better.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 02:53 PM
LuckyBoy1 wrote:
- I just wonder how the modelling of the P-51-D will
- be. This is a plane I have over 1,200 real life
- hours in!

Have you flown it (from an exterior view only) in a MP map? Seems like it rolls even slower than the original P47 was reputed to roll. I say reputed because I never flew it prior to 1.11, not to flame the Tbolt fans at all.


SSgt Tim Schuster
8MXS Inspection Section
Kunsan AB, Korea

-Defend the Forums!
-Accept Follow-on Patches and stuff!
-Take the Fight Online!

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:03 PM
Hmm...

I didn't visit this forum for about a month or so.
Well, it looks like I didn't miss anything important here.
Everything is just the same. "The Conspiracy Theory" is still alive here.

I guess I can leave the forums for another month.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:10 PM
FPS_Stierlitz wrote:
- Hmm...
-
- I didn't visit this forum for about a month or so.
- Well, it looks like I didn't miss anything important
- here.
- Everything is just the same. "The Conspiracy Theory"
- is still alive here.
-
- I guess I can leave the forums for another month.
-
-



You really haven't missed much on the forums, I mostly just check the forums for the occasional good thread. That's about one out of ten really /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 05:41 PM
AaronGT wrote:
-
- johno__UK wrote:
-
-- Negative FM bugs eg: ridiculous overheating,
-- inability to reach top speed, underturning, weak
-- damage models...
-
- Wow - I didn't know that overmodelled 190 roll rate
- was a negative thing for the 190. Or the likely
- overmodelling
- of the 109 high speed roll rate.


Note i said the majority of negative bugs seem to be on non VVS planes i didn't mean that their wern't any bugs at all that made them overperform in some way but roll rate is hardly gonna make a big difference is it like turn and climb.

XyZspineZyX
09-16-2003, 06:51 PM
So, if I may summarise your point of view... You suck in the Luftwaffe planes, but think it must be the planes because, hey - you don't suck, right?

Heh heh heh. I'm awful in the 109s and 190s but at least I can admit it's me, and not some problem in the game. If you don't like getting shot down by the VVS, learn to fly properly.