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XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:27 PM
i think many of the FM characteristics of janes were more accurate than in F.B. now after the patch the jug and the jet AND the fw190 AND the 109 all fly a lot closer to the janes flight models,almost identical now. which leads me to believe that oleg is starting to look at the planes statistics instead of just making them fly how he thinks they should fly. in the past all of olegs flight models were the opposite end of the spectrum from every other flight sim out there. whereas most other sims planes were all basically similar if they were the same plane. things are getting more accurate now in my eyes. 109s in real war were not able to just "fly away" from engagements by climbing as in prepatch fb. and jugs were not worthless and fw190s werent flying bricks, and jets were not completely omnipotent in climbs. now all these planes fly just like in janes and much more realistically.


www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:27 PM
i think many of the FM characteristics of janes were more accurate than in F.B. now after the patch the jug and the jet AND the fw190 AND the 109 all fly a lot closer to the janes flight models,almost identical now. which leads me to believe that oleg is starting to look at the planes statistics instead of just making them fly how he thinks they should fly. in the past all of olegs flight models were the opposite end of the spectrum from every other flight sim out there. whereas most other sims planes were all basically similar if they were the same plane. things are getting more accurate now in my eyes. 109s in real war were not able to just "fly away" from engagements by climbing as in prepatch fb. and jugs were not worthless and fw190s werent flying bricks, and jets were not completely omnipotent in climbs. now all these planes fly just like in janes and much more realistically.


www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:49 PM
The Janes flight models were a complete joke. You couldn't spin a plane if you tried. Good-looking game, but arcadish flight models.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 05:55 PM
i bought this janes thing when it came out - flew one day on- and offline
then returned to my il2

nough said /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



<center> http://members.home.nl/lil.labbit/Animation1.gif
i call this -who's afraid of a black pixel...</center>

Message Edited on 08/22/0306:56PM by lil_labbit

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:16 PM
Unless you have data to back this up it's just prop wash I'm afraid.

Mark

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:30 PM
well if you stick yank to avoid people on your six in janes wwii fighters your airframe breaks and creates alot of drag, current stick yanking of the p39 yaks 190s and mig3u are horable in fb and Im hoping they will slow down the initial stick response of the aircraft. I think janes wwii fighters still gives fb a run for its money.

everything from the sound, the game menus, intro, historical footage of the warbirds and some aspects of the fms.


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Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:35 PM
RedDeth wrote:
- i think many of the FM characteristics of janes were
- more accurate than in F.B. now after the patch the
- jug and the jet AND the fw190 AND the 109 all fly a
- lot closer to the janes flight models,almost
- identical now. which leads me to believe that oleg
- is starting to look at the planes statistics instead
- of just making them fly how he thinks they should
- fly.

I guess you weren't around a few months ago when Oleg
was pointing out that he has a lot of statistics and
attempts to make the planes fly according to them. It's
not so easy with a physics based model, as in IL2/FB
as you have to set the parameters, and then see what
the performance is like. It is easier to set in table
based systems such as Janes WW2F. However, the
edge-of-envelope of Janes WW2F leaves something to be
desired, even with the additional work done by some
talented individuals.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:37 PM
LeadSpitter_ wrote:
- well if you stick yank to avoid people on your six
- in janes wwii fighters your airframe breaks and
- creates alot of drag,

You have to be diving fast and pull up hard to do that.
If you are just doing turn-and-burn yanking, though,
with the stock FMs is hard to stall, let alone go
into any sort of spin. It's a bit better with FM v 5
add ons. I need to reinstall Janes after my disk crash
to do a fresh comparasion, though.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:44 PM
people fly slow in FB? Everytime I play people are at the limits of thier aircraft online and at full speed stick yanking does some really strange manuevers, try it out use rudder too to get some snap stalls and hard banks when the planes snap stall is corrected by you with opposite rudder.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 06:53 PM
lil labbit, you must not be thinking of Janes WW2 fighters as it "came out" two years before Il2 was published. Maybe you mean the later monstrosity called "fighter squadron" or something like that.

I basically agree with others that the Janes FM's were fairly accurate as regards basic performance issues, but that it did not simulate the difficulties of flying high performance fighters accurately at all. Stalls and Spins were a joke. Even at the highest realism settings stalls simply resulted in temporary loss of control and I don't remember uncontrollable tailspins occuring at all. Also, I did feel the Me-262 was a waste of aluminum in that game and if the "new" FM in FB (much closer to Janes as regards the 109 and 262) is accurate, I have absolutely no idea why the Germans would have wasted their time on the 262 at all. All that said, Janes remains a cool game, with its great music (why do we just get silly systhesized ditties in IL2), great manual, museum interface, sound (creaking airframes anyone?), and still serviceable graphics.

The_Blue_Devil
08-22-2003, 06:56 PM
FB fought Janes and Janes won..kinda like the Law. At least Janes gave every plane their fair shake, the FMs were more balanced with reality. Though FB is more complicated the FMs in Janes seem more accurate to what is commonly known about Warbirds of the 40's

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

Message Edited on 08/22/0306:00PM by The_Blue_Devil

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 07:03 PM
Suckerpunch11 wrote:
- The Janes flight models were a complete joke. You
- couldn't spin a plane if you tried. Good-looking
- game, but arcadish flight models.
-
-

With the updated FM's i assure you,you can stall and spin...and some of the mods look even better than the best lookin' FB aircraft!

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.1.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.2.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.3.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.4.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.5.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.6.jpg

http://members.chello.nl/m.messemaker/WWII-fighters.7.jpg



Message Edited on 08/22/0307:46PM by vroelofs

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:13 PM
My god RedDeth, for a guy I like so much I couldn't disagree with you more. Janes ww 2 fighters flight models were a joke. not to mention how bad the stalls and spins were modeled.

Janes aircraft didnt even come close to compairing to their real life counter parts. I think the two most under-modeled a/c in janes were the spitfire and the P-38. the P-47 had to be the most over modeled a/c in the whole game.

at janes world the spit IX was out climbed at all altitudes by the P-47, and I dont mean by a little. the 47 must have climbed at almost twice the rate, now how realistic is this?


The 38 couldnt turn at all not even with combat flaps it was out turned by the P-47, another glaring error was how the 47 could keep up with the 38 in a climb.

all aircraft had the use of combat flaps when the only two a/c in that game that actually had them were the P-38 and P-51, the maximum speed for using the flaps on all a/c was 165 mph, how generic

dont get me started on the damage model! my god was that a joke! you could make kills with just the .303s in the spitfire out to 4,000-4,500ft my god what a joke! 5 bullets and a whole wing fell off:P

none of the a/c at janes could fly much above 30,000 ft now thats accurate

190A8 easily out turned the 38J another inaccuracy

I could go on and on about how janes was a great arcade type game and how poorly it matched real life general data about the aircraft it modeled.

that game was and still is a blast to fly with cockpits that looked great, but accurate.....not even close. I still play janes ww 2 fighters once and a while. the only thing bad about janes was how the people who flew it whined about being shot down.

the damage model, flight model, need for cable for online play, and the people at JCN were major reasons why I was turned off by this game and went on to play European Air War.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:25 PM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
- My god RedDeth, for a guy I like so much I couldn't
- disagree with you more. Janes ww 2 fighters flight
- models were a joke.


Download the 5.1.1 flight model pack and install it. You are going to be pleasantly surprised.

Tsisqua

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg
"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

ZG77_Nagual
08-22-2003, 08:27 PM
It's nostalgia - in janes afj dominated by flying a strict bnz regime in the p47 - which outclimbed every plane in the simm - and exploiting the scoring scheme in aow. Some of these guys could literally bore you to death with their tactics Which is not to say they didn't have some great pilots who were willing to mix it up - though usually you had to fly another p47 and force it.

PS - janes had 'auto-trim' - which, with a little research - could be exploited at certain speeds to greatly enhance turn performance - or greatly trash it at the wrong speeds! For example - in a certain speed range the mustang's nose could be made to come up nearly twice as fast from a dive - the p47 would turn inside anything except a spitfire etc. etc. No slider - but I think RBJ would've liked it.

Janes FM is very simplistic - it cannot touch FB's though it is much improved with the new patches.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:38 PM
Ive downloaded most of the mod stuff for janes ww2 fighters and it realy is excelent the fm's are much closer now and the visuals especialy on the aircraft down to each tiny detail like rivets are beautiful. Only thing is its planeset is currently stuck to the same amount as when game came out to add different AC one needs to delete an existing one apart from that its cool....

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:56 PM
If you want to have fun, play WW2 Fighters.

If you want a challenge, you play IL2/FB.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 08:58 PM
This is too funny /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif ...sorry

Regards,
VFC*Crazyivan
http://www.rmutt.netfirms.com/ivan-reaper.gif

"No matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down." Ivan Kozhedub

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 09:42 PM
Red, most of these guys have never flown it as much as us old guys. They dont understand how much the game has changed and improved.
I think janes WWII fighters is much better than il2 now cus no matter what aircraft you use your always satisfied.

P4-2.4Gig
1GigPC2100 DDR Ram
SoyoDragon Ulrtra Mobo
8X AGP Slot
GF-4Ti4600pny
20"Monitor
40GigHD
58xCDRW-Drive
DVDRom-Drive
SB-Live 5.1
DX-9.0
XP-PRO
So he tells me, "I ban the Me262 cause its turn rate is over modeled and it dosnt stall"... Then he takes off from his base in a Hurricane.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 09:59 PM
It is true that I do not know what the modified version of janes ww 2 fighters is like, but the out of the box version that everybody played online is like I stated above. I have played that game as much as anbody else. I cant log on as bolillo on this forum for some reason so I had to use my other name.

If you like an uber P-47 able climb with a 109G6 then you liked janes cause at janes world the 47 flew like it had 4,000 hp. I have played that game online for almost 5 years now.

XyZspineZyX
08-22-2003, 10:09 PM
Jane`s informative books should have guaranteed Jane`s sims to be accurate. Funny how it didn`t,,,




"Tis better to work towards an Impossible Good, rather than a Possible Evil."

SeaFireLIV.

The_Blue_Devil
08-23-2003, 12:44 AM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
- It is true that I do not know what the modified
- version of janes ww 2 fighters is like, but the out
- of the box version that everybody played online is
- like I stated above. I have played that game as much
- as anbody else. I cant log on as bolillo on this
- forum for some reason so I had to use my other name.
-
- If you like an uber P-47 able climb with a 109G6
- then you liked janes cause at janes world the 47
- flew like it had 4,000 hp. I have played that game
- online for almost 5 years now.
-
-

With the paddle blade the 47 could out climb most German planes spiral wise..and stay with them flat out. People get the impression that she is a dog based on the fact that she can't turn well in comparison to other fighter... Well I'll tell you what, you can take a G6 and think you can climb or dive away from a Jug and you'll end up dead..as most German pilots in real life tried and died doing.

<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 02:58 AM
The_Blue_Devil wrote:

- With the paddle blade the 47 could out climb most
- German planes spiral wise..and stay with them flat
- out. People get the impression that she is a dog
- based on the fact that she can't turn well in
- comparison to other fighter... Well I'll tell you
- what, you can take a G6 and think you can climb or
- dive away from a Jug and you'll end up dead..as most
- German pilots in real life tried and died doing.


even with the paddle blade and water injection the best the P-47 could climb was 3,200 fpm this data if for the late model jug also not some early variant, consider this the 47M which had the most hp and climbed at 3,500 fpm. so even the 47M could not keep up with the 109G series, the spit IX, nor the 38, but at janes it could. also if a 47M the hotest 47 there was could not stay with the 109G, then how do you expect the earlier versions to?

the P-47 was a very slow climber when compairing it to other second generation fighters of ww 2. it isnt until it reaches altitudes of 20,000ft that it can begin to compete with other aircraft.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 03:07 AM
wow any still into JanesWW2Fighters.

where can i download these addons and stuff?

i would love to give it another try. I ended up playing it after the last official patch!

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 03:44 AM
nagual i wasnt talking about the jug. and im talking about max settings in janes. fm5 with limited ammo. in fm five the jug can no longer outclimb the spitfire. try it sometime. and my point was that post patch FB is more closely aligned with the general flight characteristics of janes ww2 fighters at fm5 than not. im not talking the nit picky smallest details. also if the jet was properly flown in janes it was untouchable. very few could do that. but if flown incorrectly the jet was toast. like it should be. and i was better in the spitfire in janes than in the jug. but i was on a team and team tactics were normally jug. but i know for a fact the spit could catch jugs at fm5 but NOT at fm4 or less. ps. bolillo you need to get your name working right. re apply for criminy sakes. and bolillo fly fb prepatch and compare to janes all those planes then fly fb post patch. the planes are now remarkably similar in GENERAL FLIGHT CHARACTERISTICS of the planes. and im NOT talking about damage models or similarity between the games. just between the PLANES. the games are completely different. its amazing how much b.s. about three guys added to my thread that i never even said. lol. post by nagual which has no corellation to my post at all. DOH !!.........."It's nostalgia - in janes afj dominated by flying a strict bnz regime in the p47 - which outclimbed every plane in the simm - and exploiting the scoring scheme in aow. Some of these guys could literally bore you to death with their tactics Which is not to say they didn't have some great pilots who were willing to mix it up - though usually you had to fly another p47 and force it.

PS - janes had 'auto-trim' - which, with a little research - could be exploited at certain speeds to greatly enhance turn performance - or greatly trash it at the wrong speeds! For example - in a certain speed range the mustang's nose could be made to come up nearly twice as fast from a dive - the p47 would turn inside anything except a spitfire etc. etc. No slider - but I think RBJ would've liked it."........ nice try naguana. no banana for you.

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

Message Edited on 08/23/03 02:46AM by RedDeth

Message Edited on 08/23/0302:47AM by RedDeth

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 03:57 AM
post from lil rabbit. lmao. caught in a lie. ....."i bought this janes thing when it came out - flew one day on- and offline
then returned to my il2

nough said "....... janesww2 came out in 98 and IL2 came out THREE YEARS LATER!!!! doh..... nice try carrot muncher.



www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 04:24 AM
lil_labbit wrote:
- i bought this janes thing when it came out - flew
- one day on- and offline
- then returned to my il2
-
- nough said /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
-
-
-
-
- wrong janes game labbit,he meant ww2 fighters not attack squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:31 AM
Never flew Janes...... those screens look good though....

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:32 AM
hey Reddeth.........bolillo and gabacho are the samething, and by the way QUACK!

The_Blue_Devil
08-23-2003, 05:33 AM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
-
doing.
-
-
- even with the paddle blade and water injection the
- best the P-47 could climb was 3,200 fpm this data if
- for the late model jug also not some early variant,
- consider this the 47M which had the most hp and
- climbed at 3,500 fpm. so even the 47M could not keep
- up with the 109G series, the spit IX, nor the 38,
- but at janes it could. also if a 47M the hotest 47
- there was could not stay with the 109G, then how do
- you expect the earlier versions to?
-
- the P-47 was a very slow climber when compairing it
- to other second generation fighters of ww 2. it isnt
- until it reaches altitudes of 20,000ft that it can
- begin to compete with other aircraft.
-
-
-
Sir..from what you state I suppose that you are a Yak pilot.. Most dogfighting took place between 25-30,000ft. Ofcourse the jug would not be outclimbing a 109 on the deck..but when did you ever hear about a B-17 flying a NOE mission with Jugs and 109s turning it out? NEVER. The statement is true because at high alt the Jug puts out more than the German planes, save the K4. The Jug can and did out climb the German planes at altitude. Everyone knows she was not the best down low. What is the point in your statement?



<center>----------------------------------------------------------------------------</center>
<center>[b]"Pilots who liked to dogifght could do it their own way. I avoided it. I always attacked at full speed and I evaded a bounce in the same manner. When you were hit from above and behind, and your attacker held his fire until he was really close, you knew you were in with someone who had a great deal of experience.-Erich Hartmann"[b]</center>


<center> <img src=http://www.angelfire.lycos.com/art2/devilart/MySigII.gif> </center>

<center> http://www.361stvfg.com </center>

Message Edited on 08/23/0304:35AM by The_Blue_Devil

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 05:44 AM
I got Janes somewhere, Are you saying it is worth playing? Where can updates be found.?

For everything their is a appointed time,and their is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, and time to die. A time to laugh, and a time to weep. A time for peace, and now it is a time for War.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 07:04 AM
owlwatcher wrote:
- I got Janes somewhere, Are you saying it is worth
- playing? Where can updates be found.?
-
- For everything their is a appointed time,and their
- is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to
- be born, and time to die. A time to laugh, and a
- time to weep. A time for peace, and now it is a time
- for War.


Well here is where to start. Also, you can get all the best addons on a free cd for the price of shipping, and the ordering info on is also at this site. Some of the addons are available no other way now, due to the tremendous popularity of the IL2 games.

http://www.janesww2fighters.net/

http://www.cherokee.org/Culture/images/proctorZeke.jpg
"My ancestors didn't come over in the Mayflower--they met the boat."


http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.php?ID=612345111

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 08:25 AM
Thanks for the link.
Looks interesting

For everything their is a appointed time,and their is a time for every purpose under heaven. A time to be born, and time to die. A time to laugh, and a time to weep. A time for peace, and now it is a time for War.

XyZspineZyX
08-23-2003, 09:01 AM
The_Blue_Devil wrote:

--
--
- Sir..from what you state I suppose that you are a
- Yak pilot.. Most dogfighting took place between
- 25-30,000ft. Ofcourse the jug would not be
- outclimbing a 109 on the deck..but when did you ever
- hear about a B-17 flying a NOE mission with Jugs and
- 109s turning it out? NEVER. The statement is true
- because at high alt the Jug puts out more than the
- German planes, save the K4. The Jug can and did out
- climb the German planes at altitude. Everyone knows
- she was not the best down low. What is the point in
- your statement?


if you read up, you posted that the 47 could climb with the german planes. if you meant above 20,000ft you should have said that.

the point I was making was how the 47 could climb with the 38, spit IX, and 109G at janes ww 2 fighters and how this isnt even close to what the real a/c could do yet somebody said they thought janes was accurate.

XyZspineZyX
08-24-2003, 09:49 AM
bolillo over all the characteristics of the planes in janes are similar to the fm in fb. HOW they fly. i did not say janes is a complete accurate sim. why does everyone insist i say that? im saying POST PATCH PLANES fly strikingly similar to janes planes now. but not prepatch. R E A D M Y L I P S ....

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 01:29 AM
RedDeth, have you ever looked into professional help? I just like picking on you, you should know that by now!

QUACK you it!

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 01:54 AM
yes yes boys, the updates, patches, they make all the difference. The latest FM patch as others eluded to makes the game very nice. Planes can flat spin and get stuck in dives and other wonderful things.

The game is light years from the original release if you install all the patches. And I am talking a load of patches too.

<center>BlitzPig_johann, my sig was too big, NNWW<center>

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 04:24 AM
bolillo....your FIRED. :P

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

ZG77_Nagual
08-25-2003, 04:49 AM
Hehe,, I like picking on you too red /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
Janes was a blast - I got ALOT of time in on that puppy - but FB is even more fun - no question.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 05:11 AM
I flown the 38' spits 47's 51's and 109's I pulled away from 47's in climbs in flat starts the 109g6 was reknowned for it's stall climbs. I could out climb a 109 and 47 in the 38 why couldn't you? I believe the FMs set in FM 5 were correct like RED stated.

The name Janes was the best in aironotical research based upon research because they were a research development center for many military intelegence agencies. Not just a name or game name. They researched every thing from from the air to the sea to the grounds for military not just for the US either.

WWIIF has improved the models with a patch out that really is making me want to go back.

The crack about boring B and Z tactics was a low blow.
We did what we did best and ZG77 did what they did best. The tactics of B & Z were used effectivly by Germans / Americans / and Soviets so can it. there are challenges to every thing. I did both in my day.

I believe WWIIF is truely more correctly modeled than IL-2 or it's counter part Forgotten Battles. I don't feel Oleg is setting this sim to it's correct setting's you have mixed planes from 41 to 43's. Some of those planes in 43's I question as if they even seen war time on German and Russian sides. The planes in a jerk stick,..... act like a Acrobat plane which I feel is rediculous. FB has it's High points but I truely feel WWIIF with the update is much much better. A plane should not act so quickly to stall and fall from the sky like that.

The Auto Trim isn't a concern, the guns still shook the plane and you had to turn it off to do many important things in all planes. It is no more different than trimming from USB in FB or IL-2 or even auto prop pitches as well so pls don't go there ROFL.

I think and this is only my oppinion that Oleg should have just made a plane sim that had a lot of war planes in it to fly no certain war and made maps for certain wars to re-inact certain theaters in the WWI and WWII era because that is how I feel about it now. I enjoy flying but I think after this last update I wouldn't mind an exciting game of WWIIF with the updates. EVEN with the lag.


BH.

XyZspineZyX
08-25-2003, 05:37 AM
Most of the WWII fighters updates can be found here

http://ww2fighters.net/


Also the IL2/FB games are popular no question but with only around 80K units sold in the US is that enough for UBI to continue the series? Let's hope it is. That low of sales totals has run some companies out of the Flight Sim business.

http://www.milartgl.com/images_2_b/b_a_wolfpack_salute.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 07:53 PM
can you tell me where i can get this game JANE ww2 fighters?
I live in holland and i can't get it anywhere !!!!
please help ???? pmhs@quicknet.nl

XyZspineZyX
08-27-2003, 10:20 PM
streznjeff wrote:
- can you tell me where i can get this game JANE ww2
- fighters?
- I live in holland and i can't get it anywhere !!!!
- please help ???? pmhs@quicknet.nl
-
-

After a quick search I couldnt find any copies of Janes ww 2 Dogfighters for sale. This game came out November 10th 1998. I guess the only way is to have somebody burn you a copy that has this game. I will check and see if my CD burner is working. I have not used it for a few years now. If I can burn a copy and get it to work, I will e-mail you and ask you if you would like me to mail it to you.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 03:21 AM
streznjeff wrote:
- can you tell me where i can get this game JANE ww2
- fighters?
- I live in holland and i can't get it anywhere !!!!
- please help ???? pmhs@quicknet.nl
-
-

e-mail me at bolillo_loco@comcast.net

send me your full mailing address and I will send you a copy of the game for free. I will send et as soon as you give me your address.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 05:08 AM
Well, if there's a patched version with a decent flight model, maybe I'll re-install the game. Like I said, it's a wonderful-looking game, but the original flight model was a piece of dog poo. It was like the "easy" flight model in the CFS series.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 05:11 AM
the flight model fm 5 was not easy. it was accurate. default was 3 though

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:09 AM
The original was arcade. Stop kidding yourself.

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 09:42 AM
I bought WW2F when it was released. I liked it, but it had a lot of bugs (IA colisions, downed planes that didn't want to die, useless R4M rockets...). It was the Spanish version, and Electronic Arts didn't release a patch for this version, so I couldn't patch it.

That's the kind of after-sale support I hate the most. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Why spending money in the localization of a game, if you don't release the patches matching it?
Since language isn't vital in a sim, I'd rather had bought the original game in English. But I had no chance. I had no Internet by then.

Maybe the FMs were not so accurate but it was spectacular and flying gave a good feel, you know what I mean. And the FMB was better than the one in Il-2.


- Dux Corvan -

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_hawkeye.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 11:15 AM
Hiya Nagual, always good to see you /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual wrote:
- It's nostalgia - in janes afj dominated by flying a
- strict bnz regime in the p47 - which outclimbed
- every plane in the simm - Nagual It wasn t strictly P47 BNZ, some of the AFJ flew the Spit and were able to do a fairly good BnZ with it lol - Which is not to
- say they didn't have some great pilots who were
- willing to mix it up - though usually you had to fly
- another p47 and force it.
-
- PS - janes had 'auto-trim' - which, with a little
- research - could be exploited at certain speeds to
- greatly enhance turn performance - Nagual, I used auto trim on my spit to climb and dive, turning it off to turn - or greatly trash
- it at the wrong speeds! For example - in a certain
- speed range the mustang's nose could be made to come
- up nearly twice as fast from a dive - the p47 would
- turn inside anything except a spitfire etc. etc. No
- slider - but I think RBJ would've liked it.
-
- Janes FM is very simplistic - it cannot touch FB's
- though it is much improved with the new patches.
-
<img
- src="http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47jane
- s.jpg">
-
I just installed all the new patches terrains and models and let me tell you, WWII Fighters ROCKSSSSSSSS /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



English is not my natural language, sorry for any spelling mistake.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
08-28-2003, 04:00 PM
It is beautiful now - and the flight models are fantastic.
What an amazing product - incredibly far ahead of it's time graphically. Only now with the 1024 skins does IL2 match the level of detail.
S! Skyghost - likewise my friend.


http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

RichardI
08-28-2003, 04:30 PM
Just for the record, the Jug could outclimb anything in initial zoom climb.
With the paddle blades fitted (as modelled in Jane's) it could flat out-climb a spitfire for sure, in a straight power climb. And probably either of the German fighters.

My source:- Robert Johnson in "Thunderbolt!"

The flight model for the P-47D-27 in FB is way off in roll rate, AND climb. Jane's is closer to reality IMO.

Rich

<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!

ZG77_Nagual
08-28-2003, 05:04 PM
Blackhart - no offense meant - I do recall some intensely boring flights though - but to be fair - they were in the minority (once I just flew off into a corner of the map and landed, while my opponent continued climbing, compulsively). I did dislike flying 65 missions in aow only to be beaten in the last week by some guy who popped in for ten flights against people he knew he could beat - this was, of course, a flaw with the scoring system - and my approach - which was never exclusively oriented to winning. The jug was definitely the uberplane in janes - I never lost a match in aow as long as I flew it. I also tested the p38 against it and was able to outclimb it in a static climb too - and in fact I was able to beat well-flown jugs in a number of types. Overall the AFJ had almost unrivaled mastery of this bird - I did get it sorted out once I gave up insisting on flying other things - and had some great fights with Rhinox and others, really some of the best - that were not one-sided and were alot of fun. Against a skilled Bnzer though - the jug was the plane to fly. If I recall correctly in the fm script the stock jug had 2700 horsepower! It would also outturn a p47, 190, p38, p51 and 109 (last except for a very narrow speed range) The guns on the p47 were effective quite far out - I recall numerous times defeating spitfires during closure evastions with lead shots from >2000 feet.

Toward the end of my tenure in Janes ww2 I started to develop tactics the simm was not refined enough to support - the damage sphere modeling and flight models gave the simm a crude feel after awhile - and limited the variables available to express the true dynamic range of the aircraft. As long as I stayed inside the lines - I won - toward the end almost allways - but I don't like staying inside the lines. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

All this has been improved and it is still a great sim.

I definitely disagree about janes fms being better - the way they are done they just plane can't be. I've looked at the scripts and played around with modifying the fms in janes - it is just a crude system.

In FB the playing field is more level - in my opinion, particularly since 1.1b. Would like to see the p47 roll better though - and a little better high speed elevator - a few other things.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg


Message Edited on 08/28/0312:10PM by ZG77_Nagual

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 05:12 PM
RichardI wrote:
- Just for the record, the Jug could outclimb anything
- in initial zoom climb.
- With the paddle blades fitted (as modelled in
- Jane's) it could flat out-climb a spitfire for sure,
- in a straight power climb. And probably either of
- the German fighters.
-
- My source:- Robert Johnson in "Thunderbolt!"
-
- The flight model for the P-47D-27 in FB is way off
- in roll rate, AND climb. Jane's is closer to reality
- IMO.
-
- Rich
-
S!! Rich

Well, one very funny thing on WW2Fighters was the diferent behaivior of the planes on diferent FM settings.
For instance, the Spit, Oh my, how I miss my Spit /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif , on FM5 could keep on a climb with the p47, to tell you my opinion, on FM5 the best climbers were the P51 and the 109.
I know what I m talking about, I was a spit jockey in a P47 junkies squad lol.
After sometime of my enlistment in AFJ we tested some dogfights with spitfires doing the BnZ and it was at least so effective as the P47, only having to manage carefully the diving speed.
It was and it still is a great sim and when we think it was created in 1997, it's outstanding.
Now with all that has been created to correct it I only wish someone could modify the damage system, it used what I think it was called a bublle around the plane instead the real hits we have on FB.
If someone could do it I would go back to WWII Fighters real fast /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

English is not my natural language, sorry for any spelling mistake.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
08-28-2003, 05:33 PM
There are a couple spits in the works for FB - a Mkxiv that is nearly complete - just the cockpit in progress last I heard - and with clipped wings - that will be one beauty dogfighter for sure.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 05:34 PM
quote from naqual..."I did dislike flying 65 missions in aow only to be beaten in the last week by some guy who popped in for ten flights against people he knew he could beat - this was, of course, a flaw with the scoring system - and my approach - which was never exclusively oriented to winning.".......uh...HUH???your version of aow doesnt match any of the ones you were in.nagual zg77 was a new squad in janes ww2 fighters. there were ten rounds of AOW tournys. ZG77 didnt start until the Seventh round when they were formed. we have every flight of every aow recorded . we have records listed on our site. you never flew 65 missions to get beat in the last week. in fact from day one of each AOW till it ended the lead was never in contention. interesting story you have there though.if you wish to see what really happened though we can provide you with the info.all our pilots flew each aow from day one through the match. sorry no offense i just got confused with your story as it didnt match with anything i remembered about which pilots we flew against so i reread all our stats and those of all the other teams.i watched your progress in every aow while they unfolded. Salute !

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/p47-22.jpg 47|FC=

XyZspineZyX
08-28-2003, 11:38 PM
you guys are all cracked. I beat you all at janes!



This nonsense about the flight model at janes being accurate is hog wash! I do not have actual flight experience so I do not know what realistic is. I do however know that janes ww 2 dogfighters aircraft did not match there historical real life aircraft.

before any of you goofs out there feel the need to say this plane did this or that at this altitude, I have to tell you that high altitude wasnt a factor at janes online game play. we rarely flew above 10,000ft. when I say climb I mean climb! not zoom climb! if I meant to say zoom climb I would have said zoom climb!

The 47 climbed too well. yes too well! for a plane that should have an initial rate of climb at 3,200 fpm with the water injection and paddle prop it sure kept up with the 109 really well. I am talking about regular climbing with ias speeds of 150 mph! not a zoom climb, not at high altitude! a sustained 150 mph ias climb below the altitude of 10,000ft!

The P-47 could out turn the P-38. The P-38 is well known for its ability to turn well for such a large aircraft. From what I have read the P-38 should have gotten on the P-47s tail in two turns, instead at janes it was out turned.

Infact even the Fw-190A8 could out turn the P-38J. Now this is weird because even general referece books state how the P-38 could out turn the 190A series

lets talk about the weird spins of janes. you could get into a spin, a nasty spin where the aircraft just hung in the air and flicked around on its axis, all you had to do was to let go of the stick and the plane would recover from this queer spin all on its own, that has to be the most realistic feature of the whole game!

If that game would have modeled the aircraft to perform similar to their real life counter parts then the P-47 would have been a dog at janes! The P-47 even with water injection and a paddle prop doesnt climb por nada! infact it doesnt climb well above 20,000 ft either. its only that the other aircraft loose so much of their climb above 20,000ft that the 47 starts to look good, but that didnt matter at janes cause the 47 climbed well at all altitudes.

and let us not forget that there was a P-38 in that game which also had turbo supercharging. the P-38 in real life left the 47 behind in climbs at all altitudes, but not at janes world.

like I said before the two most castrated aircraft at janes would have to have been the spit ix and the P-38J with the most over modeled going to the P-47!

and I am not some whinner cause guys who flew 47s beat up on my favorite plane. I flew a 47 at janes and beat most of the people most of the time. bolillo_loco strikes again!

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 12:15 AM
Janes sucked the bigtime./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Only the music and some of the graphics were nice. But music and graphics do not make a good sim.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
08-29-2003, 12:44 AM
someone take a video capture from janes of the p47 on a 190

then do the same in fb stick yanking with the 190

compair the movement to real guncamera footage

and tell me which looks more realistic

janes for sure.

alot of the fb plane movements look worse then edited roll and weightless cfs1 planes which is a very bad thing. But it dont seem to matter now becuase the luftwhiners will not whine if thier a/c is overperforming every plane in the game.

190a's and D are my favorite plane but comon man its ridiculous how good they manuever now same with the yaks, mig3 and p39 which i like alot too.


http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

RichardI
08-29-2003, 12:56 AM
pinche_gabacho wrote:
like I said before the two most castrated aircraft at janes would have to have been the spit ix and the P-38J with the most over modeled going to the P-47!

I knew there was some reason I LOVED WWII Fighters!!


/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Rich


<Center>http://www.ghosts.com/images/postimages/THUNDERBOLT.jpg <Center>I've got 140 109's cornered over Berlin!