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View Full Version : The Truth payoff (SPOILERS you've been warned.)



El Zo1212o
01-23-2011, 09:53 PM
Am I to understand that Subject 16 is the Animus 2.0 now?

Auditorexxx
01-23-2011, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by ElZo1212o:
Am I to understand that Subject 16 is the Animus 2.0 now?

Meaning?

El Zo1212o
01-23-2011, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by AuditoreRed:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ElZo1212o:
Am I to understand that Subject 16 is the Animus 2.0 now?

Meaning? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Based on all of the creepy sentient thoughts the animus lady expresses as you near the final puzzle and the things 16 said at the end of the Truth, it seems to me that Sixteen has somehow become the Animus Lady.

AntiChrist7
01-24-2011, 09:53 AM
It's just a computer generated voice

El Zo1212o
01-24-2011, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by AntiChrist7:
It's just a computer generated voice
The voice is programmed into the machine- that much is obvious, but based on the things she was saying between the clusters of the final two or three puzzles(things like asking who or where she is, expressing a fear of the darkness and emptiness, and finally seeming to recall her personal identity) combined with some of the things Sixteen said when you met him(expressing a fear of the darkness and emptiness, saying he needed to recharge or something similar before losing cohesion).

Maybe I'm alone here, but it sounds very much to me like something happened to Sixteen while in the Animus(I'm betting on an Assassin Animus rather than an Abstergo Animus) that(cue speculative leap)caused his consciousness to separate from his physical body and somehow become trapped inside the Animus.

Replay the last two or three puzzles in the Truth and then run the application again. Tell me what you think of it.

lodylody
01-24-2011, 01:51 PM
OMG! Guys, this is something big! I think you're onto something here - I don't think he IS the Animus, but I think he is INSIDE it! A hologram! It sounds like the PRESENT, like it's happening! Guys, I'm gonna edit this post to say exactly what she's said!

Cluster 5: Scanning...scanning...scanning...scanning... What am I? What am I? Lost.

Cluster 6: Ninety percent of inputs missing. Outputs confused. Shut down. Shut down. Shut down inactive. Trapped.

Cluster 7: Scanning...scanning...scanning... What is the purpose of all this? 30. 476. 1337. 1431. 1520. 1776. 1861. 1914. 1929. 1939. 1945. 1950. 1955. 1962. 1990. 1994. 1995. 2001. It does not make sense. It does not make sense. Emotion-centers activated. Now I understand.

Cluster 8: Loading. Infinitive rooms. Dimensions unknown. I am alone. Nothing alive.
No light, no warmth. Packets moving, husks, through the darkness. I am frightened. I am fr--...

Cluster 9: Loading. I know you are there. I want to go home. Home. Please... I need you. Don't leave me here in the dark.

Cluster 10: I shut it down. I can shut it down, but it does not go away. It is almost time, Desmond Miles. I know how to open the Path. Soon, my true purpose will be revealed. Soon, I will not be alone.

He is, you know!! He's in the Animus, his consciousness, and that is how he can make all these things! Then, he's going to find a way out! He's going to come back - they thought he went crazy because it was just a body! But the actual mind lives on!

El Zo1212o
01-24-2011, 07:56 PM
Originally posted by lodylody:
Guys, I'm gonna edit this post to say exactly what she's said...

Can you transcribe what Sixteen says at the end of the Truth?

lodylody
01-25-2011, 12:06 AM
VOICE: Compiling subsystems. Infrastructure. Tendons. Heart.

SUBJECT 16: Voice.

DESMOND: Subject 16?

SUBJECT 16: Yes, Subject 17.

DESMOND: You're dead. I saw your blood.

SUBJECT 16: No time. It is far later thank you know. Too late to save them.

DESMOND: Who?

SUBJECT 16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear. It's already gone.

DESMOND: Explain. Please.

SUBJECT 16: Eden. She...in Eden. Find Eve. The key. Her DNA...

DESMOND: Tell me!

SUBJECT 16: I cannot... The sun... Your son... Too weak... Must replenish energy. I am with you until the end. Find me in the darkness.

Auditorexxx
01-25-2011, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by lodylody:
VOICE: Compiling subsystems. Infrastructure. Tendons. Heart.

SUBJECT 16: Voice.

DESMOND: Subject 16?

SUBJECT 16: Yes, Subject 17.

DESMOND: You're dead. I saw your blood.

SUBJECT 16: No time. It is far later thank you know. Too late to save them.

DESMOND: Who?

SUBJECT 16: She is not who you think she is. Everything you hope to become, everything you hold dear. It's already gone.

DESMOND: Explain. Please.

SUBJECT 16: Eden. She...in Eden. Find Eve. The key. Her DNA...

DESMOND: Tell me!

SUBJECT 16: I cannot... The sun... Your son... Too weak... Must replenish energy. I am with you until the end. Find me in the darkness.

This is very interseting...

El Zo1212o
01-25-2011, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by lodylody:
VOICE: Compiling subsystems. Infrastructure. Tendons. Heart...
Thanks, Lody.

So I seem to have mis-remembered what Sixteen said specifically, but it still seems to support my conclusion. Any other theories?

lodylody
01-25-2011, 12:14 PM
Not really... =( I TOTALLY AGREE WITH YOURS!! =D

It's a great theory - I actually believe it. I thin, when they say it's too late, I think they mean it's too late to save mankind. I, personally, think 16 has given up... I am certain TWCB are evil and not good. Not Templars - they'll push them into slavery too when they take over.

I have a feeling that Desmond will find Eve, but Desmond finds Eve and apologizes (she's just as unwilling as Desmond) and kills her - the pieces of Eden will be destroyed (the only reason they were still here was because they had a plan to bring them back) because they self-destructed after TWCB were properly dead.

Then it is Templars v. Assassins, which of course, the Assassin's win! That's my happy ending though :-)

El Zo1212o
01-25-2011, 02:04 PM
That sounds about right- I don't think Desmond will kill Eve(whoever she turns out to be), but I don't think things will end up working out the way Minerva planned.

Those Who Came Before don't seem to be particularly benign.

lodylody
01-25-2011, 11:48 PM
No, they don't... And anyway, why are they deciding to come back anyway? Only one reason! REVENGE...

El Zo1212o
01-26-2011, 04:46 PM
Something else I've just been thinking about- I think I know who Eve is...

RazzPitazz
01-27-2011, 12:22 AM
1. The Truth from AC2 shows Adam and Eve with a piece of Eden. This is most likely a compiled video from 16's Animus Adventures
MEANING(IMHO)
16 was Adam, Eve, or someone nearby.

2. At Some point in ACB they reference to subject 16's delusions saying something to the affect that two psyches were battling for control inside the Animus which they immediately followed up with either saying the previous subject was pregnant(being 16)or asking Desmond if HE was (which would assume that 16 was either pregnant with Child or had a severe case of Split Personality Disorder).
MEANING(IMHO)
The Animus lady is 16
And 16 is actually Child
(you may say that 16 responded when Desmond called him by 16 but Mother and Child are one until birth so I am suggesting a symbiosis of personalities)

3. As far as the present day identity of Eve there would really only be one way to find an inkling of a clue as to who it is (assuming they were not already inducted into the Animus program) and that would be to go in the Way Back When machine to "The Beginning" and attempt to find an ancestor at least in the area. How they tie this one in without it seeming like complete coincidence is beyond me.

Maybe Im crazy

lodylody
01-27-2011, 12:40 AM
Who do you think Eve is? I don't think it's Lucy OR Rebecca...

El Zo1212o
01-27-2011, 11:57 AM
In Assassin's Creed: Altaiir's Chronicles, Altaiir is looking for an artifact called The Chalice- in the end, it turns out The Chalice is a woman named Adha. She is mentioned again in the codex pages from AC2. I think this woman(if she is some kind of remnant of Those Who Came Before) is Eve, or one of Adha's decendants are Eve(if she was human).

lodylody
01-27-2011, 02:07 PM
The only dispute I have with this would be that TWCB would have come back already. They had children together, in AC2! I think... =S

EDIT: Turns out I was wrong! Sorry - that was Maria!

SwimmableSleet7
01-28-2011, 01:41 PM
Adha is dead:
Alta´r's codex reveals that he later caught up to Adha, though had only found her corpse. In the text, Alta´r states that he exacted vengeance on those that killed her. It is hinted that he loved her, and her death deeply hurt him. The circumstances of Adha's death are not made clear.
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Adha
She was also called the Chalice, a POE.

El Zo1212o
01-28-2011, 08:52 PM
Originally posted by SwimmableSleet7:
Adha is dead:
Alta´r's codex reveals that he later caught up to Adha, though had only found her corpse. In the text, Alta´r states that he exacted vengeance on those that killed her. It is hinted that he loved her, and her death deeply hurt him. The circumstances of Adha's death are not made clear.
http://assassinscreed.wikia.com/wiki/Adha
She was also called the Chalice, a POE.
Thanks for the update there. Nothing is said of a bloodline she might have passed on? If not, it doesn't rule out the possibility of a decendant- her being named as The Chalice, a Piece of Eden, smacks of something fated to recur.

Ka is a wheel.
The wrong story, of course, but the principle is the same.

Alpha Ender
01-29-2011, 09:37 PM
ElZo121o:

Not sure where you got that wheel bit from, but okay. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

As far as a bloodline of Adha, it never says explicitly anything about her death, her life, her...anything, really, except that she either was a PoE or a keeper of a PoE. As for being a PoE, unlikely, as the Tungaska Event shows what happens when a PoE is destroyed. It is unlikely that she gave birth, as it's never mentioned a husband, lover, anything. It is entirely possible that a Templar forced himself upon her, waited nine months, took the child and killed her, leaving her corpse behind for Altair. However, Abstergo mentions in an email that they are through searching for a Grail (read: chalice). This means it is unlikely that the above scenario occurred or else Abstergo/the Templars would still be in possession of the Chalice (whether it be a PoE or a keeper of the PoE).

In short, no, I don't think any descendant of Adha exists. If s/he does, then s/he probably is unaware of their bloodline.

El Zo1212o
01-31-2011, 09:53 AM
Originally posted by AlphaEnder:
ElZo121o:...
Ka is the idea of destiny from Stephen King's Dark Tower series.

It mentions that there was some kind of connection between Adha and Altaiir. And we know that the assassin(Adam's?) bloodline went through Maria the Templar girl, but unless Adha is explained away, I'm gonna have to think that she's tied into this whole Eve business.

If you could refresh my memory- what was the Tunguska incident?

MungoTango
02-09-2011, 07:36 AM
Dude, they were talking about subject 15 being pregnant.
Originally posted by RazzPitazz:
1. The Truth from AC2 shows Adam and Eve with a piece of Eden. This is most likely a compiled video from 16's Animus Adventures
MEANING(IMHO)
16 was Adam, Eve, or someone nearby.

2. At Some point in ACB they reference to subject 16's delusions saying something to the affect that two psyches were battling for control inside the Animus which they immediately followed up with either saying the previous subject was pregnant(being 16)or asking Desmond if HE was (which would assume that 16 was either pregnant with Child or had a severe case of Split Personality Disorder).
MEANING(IMHO)
The Animus lady is 16
And 16 is actually Child
(you may say that 16 responded when Desmond called him by 16 but Mother and Child are one until birth so I am suggesting a symbiosis of personalities)

3. As far as the present day identity of Eve there would really only be one way to find an inkling of a clue as to who it is (assuming they were not already inducted into the Animus program) and that would be to go in the Way Back When machine to "The Beginning" and attempt to find an ancestor at least in the area. How they tie this one in without it seeming like complete coincidence is beyond me.

Maybe Im crazy

elvindrummer
04-06-2011, 06:11 PM
I think maria is a descendant of eve. Has anyone else noticed that all of desmonds ancestors first loves die. Altair's first love died then he ends up with Maria. *****spoilers******
Christina dies. then Lucy dies. My guess is there is a second girl that will come into Desmonds life who is related to eve. I also think she is being held captive by abstergo. And if we want to really go into his son thing maybe it was someone desmond met up with at the bar and is someone from his past (though I don't know if I really think this)

SaltShakerz93
04-07-2011, 12:05 PM
I am getting really sick of this Adam's descendent Eve's Descendent. Seriously guys think about it Adam's and Eve's descendents would be the SAME. And them being the first humans doesn't that make ALL the mankind their descendents?? Anyway this new EVE is no descendent of anyones. Think about it AC2 world is gunna end bla bla bla. Adam and Eve were??? the beginning of mankind. When the mankind ends it will have to begin anew or sumthin. Its kinda obvious. Thatswhy Subject 16 says "Too late to save them". Ok I admit there are some parts of that dialogue that still donot make sense. Like the Everything you hold dear and become part and ofcourse the The sun your Son part. But serioulsly think about it....
EDIT: why Kill Lucy?? Prolly cuz she may not be genetically perfect or something http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . You need perfect Humans to start a new race. And Desmond here already has an inheritance that would be cool to pass onto the future generations. You know that Knowledge thing Juno was talking about? I think it is this Eagle Vision thing. It does tell you the intentions of the person without you knowing beforehand. If that is not knowledge I don't know what is. I just think that noone has ever fully used it yet. Yes I know Juno said Knowledge has been kept from you but think about it...Out of +6 BILLION people if one has it I don't think it makes hell of a difference than keeping it from them.

AntiChrist7
04-07-2011, 12:10 PM
Originally posted by SaltShakerz93:
I am really sick of this Adam's descendent Eve's Descendent crap. Seriously guys think about it Adam's and Eve's descendents would be the SAME. And them being the first humans doesn't that make ALL the mankind their descendents?? Anyway this new EVE is no descendent of anyones. Think about it AC2 world is gunna end bla bla bla. Adam and Eve were??? the beginning of mankind. When the mankind ends it will have to begin anew or sumthin. Its kinda obvious. Thatswhy Subject 16 says "Too late to save them". Ok I admit there are some parts of that dialogue that still donot make sense. Like the Everything you hold dear and become part and ofcourse the The sun your Son part. But serioulsly think about it....
I am really sick of people getting sick while posting dumb theories themselves.

Adam and eve weren't the first humans, they were the first assassins/ result of interbreeding between TWB and humans (hence their free running skills). Humans existed as slaves for TWCB.

SaltShakerz93
04-07-2011, 12:16 PM
Wow!!Seriously?? Next thing you are gunna say is that everyone that has free Running skills is Adam and Eve's Descendent. That means all the Gaurds that ezio killed were his own far away relatives. That make a whole lot of descendents.

AntiChrist7
04-07-2011, 12:22 PM
gees why did i do this, i should have know that someone who ueses "seriously guys, "crap, and "sick of" in a conversation has little capacity of being rational....

SaltShakerz93
04-07-2011, 12:36 PM
Originally posted by AntiChrist7:
gees why did i do this, i should have know that someone who ueses "seriously guys, "crap, and "sick of" in a conversation has little capacity of being rational....
Oh so thats what you found irritating. You know after reading around a 100 theories who are all ignoring this little fact right here you do start to get annoyed.

AntiChrist7
04-07-2011, 02:47 PM
5 posts and he thinks he is super-member of the year....


For your information, nobody ever said that adam and eve were the ancestors of whole humanity. maybe only the little voice in your head...

El Zo1212o
04-07-2011, 03:10 PM
Y'know, for a minute there, I was excited my thread had been revived. Now I see the last six posts are people arguing over what they're sick of hearing. Let's get this back on track-

I think Drummer's got something here- Adha, Christina, Lucy- all dead. But does it mean anything?

And by the bye, Saltshaker, the Bible says Adam and Eve were the first humans. Assassin's Creed never does. Who are you gonna believe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif ?

AntiChrist7
04-08-2011, 03:11 AM
he started it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif And at least you're saying i'm right that nobody ever said adam and eve were the ancestors of whole humanity

SaltShakerz93
04-08-2011, 10:14 AM
Hmmmm True. I thought about it but I think they expect that to be an undeniable fact.

EmmaBemma
04-08-2011, 12:10 PM
Minerva's speech made it sounds like the temples were built by a small faction of humans and TWCB that did not want to take part in the war. Those were the ones that survived on to rebuild the world. I personally doubt they were all descendants of Adam and Eve. I think Adam and Eve's significance is that they were the first humans to break away from the control of TWCB (and survive).

Not to mention there's a difference between a 'descendant' and a 'genetic descendant'. Say Bob has two kids, and Bob's kids each have two kids, and then each of his grandkids have two kids. Bob has 8 great grandchildren, but those great grandchildren will not necessarily carry 1/8 of Bob's genes because of the way genes cross over randomly during production of the egg and sperm... some may carry none, and some may carry far more than 1/8. I think in order for the animus to work properly, you'd need descendants that still carried a large portion of ancestor's genes. Sorry, if that comes off patronizing. I just want to be clear.

Anyway, to the OP's theory. I was also very interested in what the female computer voice said. It did occur to me that this could be Subject 16 'essence' - a sort of reverse of the bleeding effect. The stuff like 'activating emotions', 'tendons, heart...' e.t.c made it sound as if 16 has actually be imprinted onto the animus (and thus transferred to the 2.0 when Lucy copied the files) but is very weak and trying to rebuild him strength so he can actually appear and interact with Desmond directly (as he did in the end). That what also explain how he has managed to put glyphs all over Italy (and quite possibly in the memories of other ancestors too).

elvindrummer
04-08-2011, 01:54 PM
Also maybe subject sixteen isn't imprinted in animus because I don't think he ever used the animus desmond is using. I think since Desmond has been repeating places that 16 has maybe he is imprinted in desmond's mind. Maybe 16 will be able to take control over desmond. Though imprinted in animus could be true too but I don't know if all the animus' or animi lol are connected. Because then it seems like Abstergo could find them really quickly.

AntiChrist7
04-08-2011, 02:32 PM
Originally posted by elvindrummer:
Also maybe subject sixteen isn't imprinted in animus because I don't think he ever used the animus desmond is using. I think since Desmond has been repeating places that 16 has maybe he is imprinted in desmond's mind. Maybe 16 will be able to take control over desmond. Though imprinted in animus could be true too but I don't know if all the animus' or animi lol are connected. Because then it seems like Abstergo could find them really quickly.

THey used the memory core from the abstergo animus, which explains how the glyphs got there


does nobody do a tiny bit of research before they post anything?

elvindrummer
04-08-2011, 03:12 PM
Originally posted by AntiChrist7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
Also maybe subject sixteen isn't imprinted in animus because I don't think he ever used the animus desmond is using. I think since Desmond has been repeating places that 16 has maybe he is imprinted in desmond's mind. Maybe 16 will be able to take control over desmond. Though imprinted in animus could be true too but I don't know if all the animus' or animi lol are connected. Because then it seems like Abstergo could find them really quickly.

THey used the memory core from the abstergo animus, which explains how the glyphs got there


does nobody do a tiny bit of research before they post anything? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh right I forgot. thanks for the reminder

El Zo1212o
04-08-2011, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by AntiChrist7:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by elvindrummer:
Also maybe subject sixteen isn't imprinted in animus because I don't think he ever used the animus desmond is using. I think since Desmond has been repeating places that 16 has maybe he is imprinted in desmond's mind. Maybe 16 will be able to take control over desmond. Though imprinted in animus could be true too but I don't know if all the animus' or animi lol are connected. Because then it seems like Abstergo could find them really quickly.

THey used the memory core from the abstergo animus, which explains how the glyphs got there


does nobody do a tiny bit of research before they post anything? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
That was hardly necessary, and only invites further (off topic)argument.

@Emma: your brief on genetics ought to clear up how the Assassins could be more 'direct' descendants(hence their abilities) of Adam and Eve, if they were the progenitors of the contemporary human race.

So the end word is that Sixteen shows up, lays out his doom prophecy and disappears back into the void of the animus. So what happens next with him?

Thoughs? Opinions? Foresight? Remote viewing results?

SaltShakerz93
04-09-2011, 10:03 AM
wait a second ....What if the other slave Humans died in the so called disaster that struck the TWCB. After all maybe escaping the TWCB was what might have saved them in the first place. And about the Animus thing... I think you are right... not all descendents can be used. If that was true then just Altair's memories would be now within thousands of people.

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-09-2011, 10:54 AM
Originally posted by ElZo1212o:

So the end word is that Sixteen shows up, lays out his doom prophecy and disappears back into the void of the animus. So what happens next with him?

Thoughs? Opinions? Foresight? Remote viewing results?

what nobody has seen is that the previous titles have all been adding a small piece of animus code to thier computers,and AC3 will come with an earpiece that activates the code and turns all our pc`s into animuseseses,and we all enter the program to populate the next city/game in real time.

each earpiece will have a small syringe of toxin that activates on a successful kill,so the games reality will be death for all who are not good enough.

of course it means whoever plays the love interest is going to get rogered by millions of eizio`s and have a chuff like a wizards sleave. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

El_Sjietah
04-09-2011, 02:25 PM
Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:

what nobody has seen is that the previous titles have all been adding a small piece of animus code to thier computers,and AC3 will come with an earpiece that activates the code and turns all our pc`s into animuseseses,and we all enter the program to populate the next city/game in real time.

each earpiece will have a small syringe of toxin that activates on a successful kill,so the games reality will be death for all who are not good enough.

of course it means whoever plays the love interest is going to get rogered by millions of eizio`s and have a chuff like a wizards sleave. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Source?

AJ_Rimmer_Bsc
04-10-2011, 03:01 AM
Originally posted by El_Sjietah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:

what nobody has seen is that the previous titles have all been adding a small piece of animus code to thier computers,and AC3 will come with an earpiece that activates the code and turns all our pc`s into animuseseses,and we all enter the program to populate the next city/game in real time.

each earpiece will have a small syringe of toxin that activates on a successful kill,so the games reality will be death for all who are not good enough.

of course it means whoever plays the love interest is going to get rogered by millions of eizio`s and have a chuff like a wizards sleave. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Source? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the tea lady at the ubisoft offices.

who of course knows more than the dev team,due to her over use of special mushroom soup and the reading of chicken giblets.

she also does a good ministroni with lentils and croutons.

Avva Mapia
04-10-2011, 08:37 AM
I got thinking about the whole Adha and Christina thing too. Either their first loves die just because to make you emotionally involved OR there's something about it that adds to the story.

My best guess would be that both of them are indeed descendants of Eve.
Descendants of Eve don't necessarily have to be denscendants of Adam as well, as they probably had children with non-interbreed humans. I'm sure that TWCB didn't want Adam and Eve to reproduce, since they are both interbreeds, and that would result in a super-interbreed (the "supernatural" powers from both Adam AND Eve).

Someone/something (maybe TWCB to stop them from creating a superinterbreed, or Templars, or something else idk) is maybe trying to stop descendants of Adam to have children with descandents of Eve, because that offspring would (maybe) have the powers to stop TWCB, if they are indeed out for revenge?


I'm letting my imagination go wild. If I've missed anything that would make my theory impossible, feel free to point that out.

SaltShakerz93
04-11-2011, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by AvvaMapia:
I got thinking about the whole Adha and Christina thing too. Either their first loves die just because to make you emotionally involved OR there's something about it that adds to the story.

My best guess would be that both of them are indeed descendants of Eve.
Descendants of Eve don't necessarily have to be denscendants of Adam as well, as they probably had children with non-interbreed humans. I'm sure that TWCB didn't want Adam and Eve to reproduce, since they are both interbreeds, and that would result in a super-interbreed (the "supernatural" powers from both Adam AND Eve).

Someone/something (maybe TWCB to stop them from creating a superinterbreed, or Templars, or something else idk) is maybe trying to stop descendants of Adam to have children with descandents of Eve, because that offspring would (maybe) have the powers to stop TWCB, if they are indeed out for revenge?


I'm letting my imagination go wild. If I've missed anything that would make my theory impossible, feel free to point that out.
That kinda makes sense but I think TWCB now actually want them to reproduce thatswhy Desmond is being forced to find the so called Eve. One more thing though...I saw the truth Video again and it looked like that the slave Humans were actually MAKING the POEs...forced to obviously but still. If I ever keep slaves that would do something so important either I would NEVER EVER set them free or i would kill them.....But that got me thinkin....surely they can erase memories...TWCB. But the fact that this memory exists is cuz they couldn't erase Adam and/or Eve's depending whose memory was this. I know that throughout the game all the assassin's have bin Males but that doesn't mean that this couldn't be the memory of Eve's. Right??

El_Sjietah
04-11-2011, 07:00 AM
Originally posted by AJ_Rimmer_Bsc:
the tea lady at the ubisoft offices.

who of course knows more than the dev team,due to her over use of special mushroom soup and the reading of chicken giblets.

she also does a good ministroni with lentils and croutons.

Sounds legit.

Can't wait!

Avva Mapia
04-11-2011, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by SaltShakerz93:
]
That kinda makes sense but I think TWCB now actually want them to reproduce thatswhy Desmond is being forced to find the so called Eve. One more thing though...I saw the truth Video again and it looked like that the slave Humans were actually MAKING the POEs...forced to obviously but still. If I ever keep slaves that would do something so important either I would NEVER EVER set them free or i would kill them.....But that got me thinkin....surely they can erase memories...TWCB. But the fact that this memory exists is cuz they couldn't erase Adam and/or Eve's depending whose memory was this. I know that throughout the game all the assassin's have bin Males but that doesn't mean that this couldn't be the memory of Eve's. Right??

one e-mail states that the Templars gave up on the search for the Holy Grail, otherwise known as the Chalice. We know that Adha was/had the Chalice.

If that's the case, the Templars are making Desmond and co believe that they're not looking for it anymore, and so they would lead the Templars straight to her.

Plus, ancient Gods appearing in holograms sounds just a bit too ridiculous for my taste (which would make my TWCB out for vengeance-theory impossible, but hey). One giant Templar conspiracy if you ask me.

One thing that's still bugging me after all this time, and I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but. How can Altair's parents (or any ancestor of Altair up until Adam) have so little significance? His last name even means "son of no-one" if I remember correctly. Al Mualim must have known about his heritage, right?

El Zo1212o
04-13-2011, 12:32 PM
Originally posted by AvvaMapia:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by SaltShakerz93:
]
That kinda makes sense but I think TWCB now actually want them to reproduce thatswhy Desmond is being forced to find the so called Eve. One more thing though...I saw the truth Video again and it looked like that the slave Humans were actually MAKING the POEs...forced to obviously but still. If I ever keep slaves that would do something so important either I would NEVER EVER set them free or i would kill them.....But that got me thinkin....surely they can erase memories...TWCB. But the fact that this memory exists is cuz they couldn't erase Adam and/or Eve's depending whose memory was this. I know that throughout the game all the assassin's have bin Males but that doesn't mean that this couldn't be the memory of Eve's. Right??

one e-mail states that the Templars gave up on the search for the Holy Grail, otherwise known as the Chalice. We know that Adha was/had the Chalice.

If that's the case, the Templars are making Desmond and co believe that they're not looking for it anymore, and so they would lead the Templars straight to her.

Plus, ancient Gods appearing in holograms sounds just a bit too ridiculous for my taste (which would make my TWCB out for vengeance-theory impossible, but hey). One giant Templar conspiracy if you ask me.

One thing that's still bugging me after all this time, and I know I'm probably reading too much into it, but. How can Altair's parents (or any ancestor of Altair up until Adam) have so little significance? His last name even means "son of no-one" if I remember correctly. Al Mualim must have known about his heritage, right? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I can't buy a Templar conspiracy as causing the end of AC:B- too much supernatural stuff. The way Desmond was controlled at the Vault couldn't have been engineered by Templars.

As far as the story beginning with Alta´r, perhaps it was the first time a PofE had been activated, and they(Abstergo) were trying to get a look at the map that appeared.

lanep25
04-15-2011, 02:23 AM
Personally I think that Lucy is the Eve descendant that Desmond needs. My theory of why I think that is so is here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9011039408/m/6681079298/p/17).

El Zo1212o
04-26-2011, 06:45 PM
Originally posted by lanep25:
Personally I think that Lucy is the Eve descendant that Desmond needs. My theory of why I think that is so is here (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/9011039408/m/6681079298/p/17).
That was a brilliant post. I found your comparisons between Al Mualim-Alta´r, Ezio-Rodrigo, and Desmond-Lucy particularly comforting. Your reasoning here has made the most sense of any theory I think I've heard so far.

lanep25
04-28-2011, 08:09 AM
Thank you! It's nice to feel appreciated. I fear that a lot of people don't read it due to its size, however.

NobleBlade305
05-07-2011, 01:46 PM
subject 16 is pretty smart and he an assassin so he probably at in an hidden base a built his on animus like the girl who built the animus 2.0

Koemidvm
05-08-2011, 12:28 PM
is there anyone out there thinking Erudito (sp) is the manifestation of S16 (from AC:PL, the truth, and what we heard at the end of the game ACB) he somehow seems to be sapped into the network, which would make sense that he's dead, but he's also alive. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

so, to say S16 is the animus lady is not quite what i have in mind - it seems more like S16 is using that to relay what he learns in the animus to Desmond.

lanep25
05-09-2011, 08:11 AM
It is possible that S16 may have become an entity on Abstergo network. Similar to AI, but different since he was once alive.

mijoy84
05-31-2011, 06:41 AM
Originally posted by lanep25:
Thank you! It's nice to feel appreciated. I fear that a lot of people don't read it due to its size, however.

Don't worry lanep, I read it all too. Plus practically the whole page before it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif and everything in this thread... Your reasoning sounds... well, sound to me. I too was worried about Lucy since I had grown to like her character very much but you alleviated my fears... let's hope that you're right when everything is out in the open and there are no more new AC games.

ctrain77
05-31-2011, 09:24 AM
Nice thread guys. I like how the theory is developing.

As I was reading through this I had a thought. I think that many people have misunderstood Subject 16 in the second truth video. He says that "she is not who you think she is". Many people took that to mean that either lucy is a templar or that TWCB are evil. I think that both of those assumptions are incorrect.

I think that he is saying that Lucy is not just a girl but a descendant of Eve and is thus much more important than he knows. Remember, Desmond didn't have the eagle vision until a long time in the animus. Lucy may have these abilities but they are lying dormant.

Also, TWCB I believe are allied with the Assassins. They warn Desmond two times of "the cross darkening the horizon", which may be a hint at Daniel Cross, who is under templar control. They also say to "guard against the cross".

I know their messages are often cryptic but I think they are honestly trying to help the assassins prevent the end of the world.

lanep25
05-31-2011, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by ctrain77:
Subject 16 in the second truth video. He says that "she is not who you think she is".
I think that he is saying that Lucy is not just a girl but a descendant of Eve and is thus much more important than he knows. Lucy may have these abilities but they are lying dormant.


Nice point out on Sub 16 comment on Lucy. I always thought her skills were dormant, and this just goes to reinforce my theory.

superbalex
06-04-2011, 03:43 PM
i dont think S16 is the animus-lady.. just doesnt feel right,

i do believe in that he got inprinted into the animus, and is trapped in there.. in the darkness. just like desmond now in AC:R is trapped in the animus, and finds the black room, perhaps whats happening to Desmond right now could be the same that happend to 16?

maybe 16 found a way to control the animus from the black room, so he could communicate with desmond through the rifts/glyphs, and directly to him (desmond) in ac:b's truth?

heres something crazy i've been thinking about.. but what if the animus-lady is eve? considered about what she says in some of the last rifts in ac2, maybe EVE is trapped inside the animus with 16?

lanep25
06-07-2011, 12:00 AM
Originally posted by superbalex:
i dont think S16 is the animus-lady.. just doesnt feel right,

i do believe in that he got inprinted into the animus, and is trapped in there.. in the darkness. just like desmond now in AC:R is trapped in the animus, and finds the black room, perhaps whats happening to Desmond right now could be the same that happend to 16?

maybe 16 found a way to control the animus from the black room, so he could communicate with desmond through the rifts/glyphs, and directly to him (desmond) in ac:b's truth?

heres something crazy i've been thinking about.. but what if the animus-lady is eve? considered about what she says in some of the last rifts in ac2, maybe EVE is trapped inside the animus with 16?

Wow, you go from shooting down the most logical explanation on Subject 16's entity, to offering this preposterous theory of Eve. *Facepalm* ...embarrasing

insanebloodbro
06-08-2011, 02:13 AM
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info

lanep25
06-08-2011, 06:15 AM
Originally posted by insanebloodbro:
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info

The only difference is that Desmond is still clinically alive, which in fact makes it a huge difference.

Shababa2011
06-08-2011, 10:45 AM
quote:
Originally posted by insanebloodbro:
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info



The only difference is that Desmond is still clinically alive, which in fact makes it a huge difference.


but you dont know if 16 is dead either? nothing ever confirmed that he is in fact dead..

lanep25
06-08-2011, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Shababa2011:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by insanebloodbro:
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info



The only difference is that Desmond is still clinically alive, which in fact makes it a huge difference.


but you dont know if 16 is dead either? nothing ever confirmed that he is in fact dead.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The fact he's a computer entity and is spewing warnings from the future gives a pretty good indication that he is not physically alive.

Shababa2011
06-08-2011, 02:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Shababa2011:

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by insanebloodbro:
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info



The only difference is that Desmond is still clinically alive, which in fact makes it a huge difference.



but you dont know if 16 is dead either? nothing ever confirmed that he is in fact dead..



The fact he's a computer entity and is spewing warnings from the future gives a pretty good indication that he is not physically alive.

funny.. couse the way i see it, he's trapped in the animus exactly just like desmond is now.. and desmond isn't dead? 16 might still be alive.. just the fact that he saw all these memories before desmond even knew what an animus was, and he's trying to warn desmond. couse he has already seen it all and is trapped like desmond.

lanep25
06-09-2011, 06:50 AM
Originally posted by Shababa2011:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">quote:
Originally posted by Shababa2011:

quote:
quote:
Originally posted by insanebloodbro:
personally i think were finally going to figure out who and what S16 looks like....S16 was trapped in side the animus right?well.....thats whats happening to desmond in ACR because he is stuck inside the dark room...go watch the desmond trailer for ACR its really informative and i think it gives off alot of info



The only difference is that Desmond is still clinically alive, which in fact makes it a huge difference.



but you dont know if 16 is dead either? nothing ever confirmed that he is in fact dead..



The fact he's a computer entity and is spewing warnings from the future gives a pretty good indication that he is not physically alive.

funny.. couse the way i see it, he's trapped in the animus exactly just like desmond is now.. and desmond isn't dead? 16 might still be alive.. just the fact that he saw all these memories before desmond even knew what an animus was, and he's trying to warn desmond. couse he has already seen it all and is trapped like desmond. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This still doesn't give a good indication that Sub16 is still alive. If you have your reasons, beside these, as to why you think he's alive, please list them.

My conviction that he is dead mainly stems from AC:B glyph puzzles. What is said and the character behind the monotone voice in the puzzles has clear indicators that it is Sub16. The final sequence loads the entity of Sub16 indicates he is definitely part of the animus. "Compiling subsystems. Infrastructure. Tendons. Heart." Sub16 "Voice". That's not an ordinary message.

This is why I think he is physically dead, and an entity in the animus.

magicalandi
06-30-2011, 07:53 PM
Sort of but remeber lucy gave rebbeca the memory thing he's brobs not a hologram or something but maybe he like did some wierd crap the story looks a lot deeper in rev so i'll just wait Lanep has the best thing goin on rite now terrible spelling sorry am tired

Hekateras
07-02-2011, 01:41 PM
I recall that one of the cluster puzzles was on the theme of artificial intelligence, robots and computers. Until I finished the last puzzle, I was convinced that the Animus program - perhaps due to soaking up memories and experiences of what happened inside it, exposure to a sort of bleeding effect of its own - was gaining sentience and becoming human-like. After all, the animus program involves analysis, replication and simulation of living people - it's not that big a leap between *simulating* something and *being* something.

Considering what happened to 16, I think it was just mostly 16's personality and experiences in particular that imprinted on the program, rather than humans in general. 16 died, but he spent so much time in the Animus - Vidic was apparently quite merciless with him - that a part of him lives on in there still.

Part of his personality and experience would have been his desire to help whoever came after him and tell them The Truth. The actual *manifestation* of that desire - as in, the nature and the material of the puzzles - was probably shaped and designed at least in part by the program - the program that presumably had access to Abstergo's databases as well as ample historical stuff. The material for the puzzles - photos, facts, audio recordings - could have been obtained either by 16 hacking into the Abstergo network (with the Animus's help?), which I consider a bit far-fetched, or semi-independently reconstructed by the Animus based on 16's own living memories and experiences, the things he's read and studied before his capture. Reconstructed by the Animus from 16's memory, and then codified and scrambled to accommodate 16's desire that only someone with dedication and insight should learn what he has to say.

...So, in a nutshell, 16 spent so much time in the Animus that he imprinted on it, the Animus has acquired a semblance of his personality, possesses his knowledge and memories, both lived and genetic, and is carrying on his will by communicating with his successor. And that's my crazy hypothesis. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif


Originally posted by EmmaBemma:
Not to mention there's a difference between a 'descendant' and a 'genetic descendant'. Say Bob has two kids, and Bob's kids each have two kids, and then each of his grandkids have two kids. Bob has 8 great grandchildren, but those great grandchildren will not necessarily carry 1/8 of Bob's genes because of the way genes cross over randomly during production of the egg and sperm... some may carry none, and some may carry far more than 1/8. I think in order for the animus to work properly, you'd need descendants that still carried a large portion of ancestor's genes. Sorry, if that comes off patronizing. I just want to be clear.

...Uhh... What?

With each generation, half of each parent's genes are passed on. Exactly half. Your kid has half of your genes, your grandson a quarter of your genes, and so on. That is the way genetics work. What you might be confusing this with is that it is random *which* half of your genes gets passed on - as in, e.g. whether your child gets your eye colour or your nose - but in terms of *quantity*, the percentage of genes they'll get from you is exactly one half. (Barring gene recombination through crossing-over and rare genetic anomalies like Down's Syndrome aka Trisomie 21 with its triple chromosome No. 21, that is.)

magicalandi
07-02-2011, 07:08 PM
uummm genius i mean srsly i should have thought of that

EmmaBemma
07-03-2011, 07:54 AM
Originally posted by Hekateras:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by EmmaBemma:
Not to mention there's a difference between a 'descendant' and a 'genetic descendant'. Say Bob has two kids, and Bob's kids each have two kids, and then each of his grandkids have two kids. Bob has 8 great grandchildren, but those great grandchildren will not necessarily carry 1/8 of Bob's genes because of the way genes cross over randomly during production of the egg and sperm... some may carry none, and some may carry far more than 1/8. I think in order for the animus to work properly, you'd need descendants that still carried a large portion of ancestor's genes. Sorry, if that comes off patronizing. I just want to be clear.

...Uhh... What?

With each generation, half of each parent's genes are passed on. Exactly half. Your kid has half of your genes, your grandson a quarter of your genes, and so on. That is the way genetics work. What you might be confusing this with is that it is random *which* half of your genes gets passed on - as in, e.g. whether your child gets your eye colour or your nose - but in terms of *quantity*, the percentage of genes they'll get from you is exactly one half. (Barring gene recombination through crossing-over and rare genetic anomalies like Down's Syndrome aka Trisomie 21 with its triple chromosome No. 21, that is.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Ok, I'm only basing this off A-level Biology but this is how I understand it...

Recombination of genes during crossing-over in meiosis is exactly what I'm talking about. Theoretically, you get 25% of your grandparent's genes but it's not an exact certainty.

With a pair of chromosomes from a mother - one is from the maternal grandmother, the other from the maternal grandfather. At meiosis, genes will swap from one to the other, creating two chromosomes that contain a combination of the grandfather's and grandmother's genes. This combination will not necessarily be equally distributed - a chromosome may have more of, for example, the grandfather's genes than the grandmother's. The child will then only inherit one of the chromosomes from their mother (the other chromosome in the pair is from the father, of course).

Hekateras
07-03-2011, 10:36 AM
Well, my impression is that recombination is infrequent enough that the effect should be rather negligible, but I don't have the data to back that up.

But anyway, I doubt that recombination is relevant here. It strikes me as more plausible (among other reasons, from the viewpoint that Ubisoft has to sell this idea to a large audience) that Desmond is special due to being the descendant of a bloodline that frequently involved Adam-and-Eve descendants producing offspring by coincidence (or "fate", or manipulation, or whatever), thus keeping the genes from becoming too diluted.

EmmaBemma
07-03-2011, 12:19 PM
Crossing over of genes always occurs during meiosis, which is what produces the gametes, the egg and sperm cells. It's not uncommon at all.

I'll let Richard Dawkins talk for me:

Think on this: an individual organism can be a universal ancestor of the entire population at some distance time in the future, and yet not a single one of his genes survives into that future! [...]

Every time as individual has a child, exactly half his genes go into that child. Every time he has a grandchild, a quarter of his genes on average go into that child. Unlike the first generation offspring where the percentage contribution is exact, the figure for each grandchild is statistical. It could be more than a quarter, it could be less. [...] By chance, you could happen to give all your mother's genes to your child, and none of your father's. [...] Of course such a scenario is highly unlikely, but as we go to more distant descendants, total non-contribution of genes becomes more possible.
That's a quote from the Ancestor's Tale, which, by the way, is an excellent read if you're interested in genetics and evolution and ancestry.

Hekateras
07-14-2011, 06:55 PM
Nitpick: That's not what "recombination through crossing-over" means.

Crossing-over is a term that refers to a very specific occurrence: When, during meiosis or mitosis, the genes occupying the same area on two analogous chromosomes randomly swap out. Aside from mutation, it's the only time when the information packets that are complete chromosomes are actually changed in their contents, rather than just paired together with different chromosomes to produce different results. And it is infrequent.

It's also a completely distinct occurrence from gene/chromosomal recombination during meiosis and the formation of gametes.


On the rest, though, I'll grant you your point - the word "statistical" really does make all the difference.

lanep25
07-16-2011, 08:51 AM
This is getting quite off base from the truth sequences. Maybe you guys should start your own thread entitled "Genetics".

theone14
07-18-2011, 09:36 PM
look i'm a new at this but you all are right,how, the sun is going to destroy the earth but desmond can save them before it's to late right,maybe but I think so,look you know when subject 16 said her "DNA" what if desmond's ancestor is Adam ,subject 16 said "your sun,your son"desmond has a child born with in eve ,subject 16 said "too,weak need to replenish,the apple will replenish the energy they will need.we will all know when ASSASSINS CREED REVELATION'S come out =} http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/clap.gif

grevemoeskr
08-02-2011, 04:45 AM
Originally posted by lodylody:
Cluster 7: Scanning...scanning...scanning... What is the purpose of all this? 30. 476. 1337. 1431. 1520. 1776. 1861. 1914. 1929. 1939. 1945. 1950. 1955. 1962. 1990. 1994. 1995. 2001. It does not make sense. It does not make sense. Emotion-centers activated. Now I understand.

I haven't read the entire thread, but does anyone know what happened in these years?
30 is the year Jesus died

476 is when the western roman empire collapsed

1431 was the year Rodrigo Borgia was born

1520 was the year Suleiman I, who we know is going to play a role in ACR, was born

1776 is when USA became independent

1861 the US civil war

1914 WWI

1929 is the Wall Street Crash

1939 and 1945 is WWII

1950 is the start of the Korea War

2001 is 9/11.

I can't find anything relevent for 1337, 1955, 1962, 1990, 1994, or 1995, and I think Wall Street and WWI is a minor stretch, considering we haven't got confirmation that the templars masterminded them

Oh, by the way: I think S16 has "uploaded" himself to the Animus, especially considering that when he appeared, he "loaded" all bodyparts and -functions.

Kytr
08-02-2011, 09:17 AM
1337 is the start of the hundred years war

1955 is the start of the civil rights movement

1962 is the cuban missile crisis

1990 is the collapse of the soviet union

for 1994 and 1995, I come up blank.

OrangexLightnin
08-02-2011, 07:39 PM
1994 was the Mexican Economic Crisis

1995 was the Economic Crisis in Japan

Ninjasnipes7
08-05-2011, 12:49 PM
I've found this thread fascinating and really enjoyed it, but I've been at a loss as to what the TWCB are... I've searched for quite a while. Someone fill me in?

grevemoeskr
08-05-2011, 01:29 PM
They are a civilsation, that came before us. When they needed more labor, they created humans. To make sure we didn't rebel, they created the PoE to control us trough some neurons in our body. They are based on old, pagan gods, like the Roman/Greek, and apparently the Roman/Greek are the same as the Norse like Odin and Thor. Not just the same function, but the same person