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Ant__.
11-10-2006, 01:10 AM
With Remembrance Sunday almost upon on us, a time to reflect and simply say ?Thank you? to all serviceman who have lost their lives in all wars and conflicts, it amazes me going about my daily business in the UK just how many people DON?T wear a Poppy. It?s not like they are expensive! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I wanted to ask, because I realised I?m a bit ignorant about these things outside of the UK - what do other countries do to mark/observe this occasion?

This question is in no way meant to be inflammatory or offensive; I'm just curious. If anyone is offended I?ll take the thread down.

www.poppy.org.uk (http://www.poppy.org.uk)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/posted-sig.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/november-ssc.jpg

Ant__.
11-10-2006, 01:10 AM
With Remembrance Sunday almost upon on us, a time to reflect and simply say ?Thank you? to all serviceman who have lost their lives in all wars and conflicts, it amazes me going about my daily business in the UK just how many people DON?T wear a Poppy. It?s not like they are expensive! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

I wanted to ask, because I realised I?m a bit ignorant about these things outside of the UK - what do other countries do to mark/observe this occasion?

This question is in no way meant to be inflammatory or offensive; I'm just curious. If anyone is offended I?ll take the thread down.

www.poppy.org.uk (http://www.poppy.org.uk)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/posted-sig.jpg http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/november-ssc.jpg

Celeon999
11-10-2006, 02:23 AM
We dont have anything like this<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7347/germanyf2t11x2ef.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/341/sig31lu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Bootsmann0815
11-10-2006, 02:44 AM
@RJ, http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif

@Celeon, that's not surprising in Germany; Hitler's "Heldengedenktag" still steers up bad memories among the older generation, and the present German authotities are always afraid that such events would be hijacked and abused by the neo-nazis.
Foreigners sometimes find it somewhat tasteless that the Germans open their Carnival Season on 11 November at 11.11 hours, but of course that's a tradition that pre-dates WWI.

As for other countries, there are absolutely huge and quite moving remembrance events all over the WWI battlefields in Flanders and France, usually associated with modern museums/memorials; notably Compiegne, and also at the two villages near Verdun which were literally wiped out but were allowed to retain their status a legal entities.

In Russia, WWI is not really remembered but the subsequent October Revolution is; as is of course WWII (9 May; serving both as victory celebration and remembrance for the soldiers who lost their lives. Special ceremony for civilian victims at St. Petersburg Siege Memorial/Cementary.)<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Use the vertical!

Fish40
11-10-2006, 04:04 AM
RJ, here in the States, "Veterans Day" as it's called, is a pretty big affair, and with good reason. This is the day, the nation takes time out to remember all those who gave the ultimate sacrafice in wartime, as well as all others who have served. It is to honor our veterans.

I feel too many of the younger folks in my country don't have a sense of history, and wish they would understand what these men and women went through, and are STILL going through, so they could live freely!

The Vets in the US also give out the red poppies, and whenever I see a Vet on the corner selling them (you give a donation to the Veterans) I'm sure to pick one up.

Goose_Green
11-10-2006, 04:24 AM
Nice comments so far.

RJ, I'm not suprised that not many people are wearing a poppy, I think this year is the worst for selling them - I have only just got mine and it was the first time I had seen them for sale.

Mind you, I have seen many trucks wearing them with giant poppies stuck to their front grill, I was wondering where they got them from.

@ Celeon, Does Germany have any day where they remember their war dead from the two wars?

I realise the problem with the last war, but German soldiers, seamen and airmen were only doing their duty - surely that is enough to warrant some kind of rememberance even though the reasons for the war were wrong.

While on Exercise and sort of squadron pilgrimage in Egypt back in 2001, I had the good fortune to visit the war graves of both the Allies and the German forces and I think the German one was the best out of the two.

Here are some pics I took of the German memorial;

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/25254151.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/25254152.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/25254165.jpg

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/25254143.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i113.photobucket.com/albums/n235/Goose_Green/sig1copy.jpg

Dannythemusicma
11-10-2006, 06:15 AM
For the past 5 years now I've walked at the back of a band playing the cymbals as we all march to the local cenotaph.

This Sunday the weather forecast is for some rain, but I'll be there.

There's been discussion here in the UK that the red poppy should be replaced with a white poppy so that it represents peace. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

There's no question about it, I shall be wearing a red poppy on Sunday. Rememberance is about honouring those who made the ultimate sacrifice.

klcarroll
11-10-2006, 06:38 AM
I will also be wearing a poppy to remember and honor those who sacrificed; ??.some of them friends.

For me, the day is even more somber than usual, because so many of our finest people are currently deployed ?in harm?s way?.

Gmuno
11-10-2006, 06:44 AM
Yes, Germany got something like a remembrance day. It's called "Volkstrauertag", usually a sunday in november, this year november 19th.

Celeon999
11-10-2006, 06:44 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">@ Celeon, Does Germany have any day where they remember their war dead from the two wars? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope. Nothing like that.

The organisation which builds these war cemeterys is also a private one.

They work together with veteran organisations and finance everything by themselves.

www.volksbund.de (http://www.volksbund.de/)

Its called "Volksbund der Kriegsgräberfürsorge" und recieves no money from the government. They exist through private donations.

At the moment they take care of 2 million german soldier graves in 827 cemeteries which are located in 100 countries around the world.

They somehow manage this by giving free journeys for young people into these countries.

The only thing the young people have to do to pay for the journeys is to take care of the graves while they are there.

They also organize meetings for young people from the Netherlands, Belgium , France, Italy and Poland.

Somehow they even managed to build a memorial and soldier cemetary named Rossoschka, 35 km west of Wolgograd (former Stalingrad) which took them years to get the allowance for.

The russian goverment feared that "rich germans" would now come and try to build a gigantic temple that overshadows the soviet memorials build there.

(Thats what Hitler planned to do with Stalingrad. The whole city was to be flatened and a gigantic megalomania soldier memorial was supposed to be build on its remains.)


The solution was simple : A combined soldier cemetary for german and soviet soldiers.

Rossoschka was once a village that was totally destroyed during the battle of Stalingrad.

There is a plate somewhere that reads :

After the battle, Rossoschka was burned , blown to bits , bombed , obliberated.


This is one of the soviet memorials , its called "Mother home".

She points towards Wolgograd.

http://img167.imageshack.us/img167/1203/450pxmutterheimat28129qg2.jpg <div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7347/germanyf2t11x2ef.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/341/sig31lu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Celeon999
11-10-2006, 06:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Gmuno:
Yes, Germany got something like a remembrance day. It's called "Volkstrauertag", usually a sunday in november, this year november 19th. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Really ? Never heard of that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Is it printed in calendars ?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7347/germanyf2t11x2ef.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/341/sig31lu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

AVGWarhawk
11-10-2006, 06:59 AM
To further the US celebration, Washington DC is decended upon by all walks of life that want to remember. We have war memorials all over the place. Usually Harley Davison motocycle rides show in force to honor those who fell in Vietnam. There is the Vietnam war memorial as well as, women's war memorial for WWII, of course a WWII memorial. Then there is Arlington National Cemetary. This is for Vets for burial. Each stone gets a small American flag. There is also the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier that is guarded 24 hours a day 365 days a year. There are many places to visit on Veterans day and the people sure to come out to pay respects. Me, I pay respects to my Uncle who died flying a B-17 over Kiel German, June 13, 1943. Yes he was going after the u-boat pens. My Aunt who was a WAVE during WWII and my still living Uncle who worked on the aircraft carriers repairing planes. Sadly though that today a lot of youngsters do not care and never will. It is a shame. To them it is just a day off.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

The last thing I heard as the British boarded my boat, "Boot hoch halten sonst wird keiner gerettet!"....Keep the boat afloat or no one will be rescued! My war was over....

bunkerratt
11-10-2006, 07:35 AM
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life member v f w ..and yes ..i am wearing my poppy..and..HAPPY BIRTHDAY JARHEADS!!!!!!!!!..SEMPER FI!!!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Michiel_88
11-10-2006, 07:52 AM
Normally in Ypres there's a daily ceremony to remember the fallen soldiers of WW1.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/meningate/lastpost.htm

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/westfront/ypsalient/yparmistice.htm

the 11th of november (armistice day) there are ceremonies everywhere to remember the victims of war, in nearly every town, there's a monument for this, mostly called, the monument for the unkown soldier, where the last post is played, and flowers are placed near it.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_Flanders_Fields
As british, RJ, do you know this poem by John McCrae?

In Flanders fields the poppies blow
Between the crosses, row on row,
That mark our place; and in the sky
The larks, still bravely singing, fly
Scarce heard amid the guns below.

We are the Dead. Short days ago
We lived, felt dawn, saw sunset glow,
Loved, and were loved, and now we lie
In Flanders fields.

Take up our quarrel with the foe:
To you from failing hands we throw
The torch; be yours to hold it high.
If ye break faith with us who die
We shall not sleep, though poppies grow
In Flanders fields<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Grymmjakk
11-10-2006, 09:21 AM
Here in Canada November 11th is Remembrance day and the red poppy is its symbol.. it is marked by those who observe it with wreath laying at local cenotaphs bands marches etc parts of Canada also observe the day as a holiday with all businesses schools etc closed in honour of all killed in the 2 world wars and Korea.
when I was a kid (longer ago than I would like to admit ) I spent one remembrance day at CFB (Canadian Forces Base ) Shilo it was a very moving ceremony and was attended by Canadian and German Troops.

....oh and to Michiel_88 I know that poem http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Col.McCrae was a Canadian surgeon who wrote that poem while in service there its taught (or was ) to all Canadian school children around this time of year

....respect for the fallen

and good games to the community here<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img25.photobucket.com/albums/v76/Grymmjakk/ao_stryck_sig.jpg

Stingray-65
11-10-2006, 09:51 AM
Sadly, the gentleman (WWII vet) that I always bought my poppies from passed away last year. 3 of which I'm looking at right now. I observe this occassion as it should be, but I can't help but usually focus on my family members who have served... but right now I'm remembering one man in particular. God bless his soul.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.geocities.com/uboat_flotilla_52/U-013Sig.jpg (http://www.geocities.com/uboat_flotilla_52/index.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v642/antsmith/voted.jpg

Mittelwaechter
11-10-2006, 10:03 AM
I guess most germans don't feel comfortable with the rememberance of the wars, our victims and the circumstances at all.
We started both worldwars and - what's even worse - lost them both.
This seems to be cynic, but if you start a war you have to win it. No one asks what you started it for and you write the history yourself. If you lose it the winners blame you for lifetime and all the justice, honor and respect is on their side - no matter what ever they did to win the war.
(Feel free to check your own history concerning this)

There is a small group of neo-nazis in germany marching through the streets - as long as the laws let them do so - owning the "National German Pride". They never hesitated to be "proud to be german" but the "normal" germans did and do when being confrontated with perfectionized genocide. You don't want to be mixed up with this people and keep your national pride on a low level. The neo-nazis start to regain strength in the eastern parts of germany these days.
We'll have to have a close eye on that...

I think most of us feel guilty up to a certain degree for our fathers and grandfathers who didn't realize what happened or even supported the regime. No german hero managed to kill Hitler and stopped the holocaust. You don't feel pride staring at Auschwitz-pictures - you're shocked.

Well the "Wehrmacht" - the german military forces in WWII and by far not only nazis - served the wrong master. It fought for the wrong side. Nothing to be realy proud for.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


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There is no safe distance

Celeon999
11-10-2006, 10:16 AM
I heard that the NPD planned to set up a youtube "Wochenschau". http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Luckily youtube reacted quickly and forbid that.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

But what do they do with the rest of the nazi propaganda there ? Nothing !<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://img354.imageshack.us/img354/7347/germanyf2t11x2ef.gif (http://imageshack.us)http://img111.imageshack.us/img111/341/sig31lu4.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

Stingray-65
11-10-2006, 10:42 AM
@ Mittelwaechter
There is much truth to what you say about the victors and losers of war.

However, Germany DID NOT start WWI... It was Austria-Hungary and Serbia. As Austria's ally, Germany agreed to support them if they went to war. However, Germany didn't believe that they would. Austria had the chance to settle matters before going to war, but chose war instead. I don't think anyone knew initially how quickly things would escalate or how large it would become. Germany ended up bearing the brunt of the whole situation and ultimately bore the responsibility/blame of what they were drug into.

Concerning WWII, I believe that not every German was a fanatical nazi. Although there were many who initially supported the nazi party, they may not have known about everything nor supported what the nazi party was ultimately responsible for. As an example (but maybe a poor one in comparison) many American Republicans currently do not support the war in Iraq, which many view to be Bush's fault. (Apparently obvious by how the Democrats are taking over after this week's elections.) Most Americans are for supporting our troops, although not for supporting the war in Iraq. Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that I'm sure many German servicemen were just serving their country, just like many Americans who served their country in Vietnam and those who currently are in Iraq. Soldiers, as a whole, are not to blame for what their leaders do, but often pay the terrible price. They can either do their duty or go AWOL. There is no other choice and realistically there is no option other than to do their duty. We should not forsake them because of what leaders do.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

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Bootsmann0815
11-10-2006, 10:48 AM
And that rise of neo-nazism is the reason why the "Volkstrauertag", which indeed exists, has such a deliberately low profile that not even Celeon was aware of it. The "official" bit usually involves the President and/or Chancellor going to a classical concert and give a 5 min. speech before the music starts, maybe the Defense Minister visiting a war grave somewhere (Stuck did that regularly, not sure about the new man), and at a local level, the local Pastor or Priest polishing the sad little WWI memorial that usually is located in or near his church and is ignored by everyone the rest of the year. That's it, apart from some somber music on the radio and the odd documentary by Guido Knoop (self-appointed TV guru on WWII and Cold War history; does a lot of harm to historical understanding by the general public in my opinion) on the telly.
General public remembrance of the war dead is included in "Totensonntag", five Sundays before Chrtistmas, where ALL dead people are remembered and all the graves are made winter-proof (flowers off, branches from evergreen trees on).<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Use the vertical!

Mittelwaechter
11-10-2006, 12:33 PM
I agree Germany didn't "start" WWI but they were on the agressor side.

1933 : Nazi Party Members 850 000
1945 : Nazi Party Members 7.500 000
Supporters? No numbers available, but certainly most of the folks accepted their masterrace fate.

A soldiers duty is to serve his country and follow orders given by his leader(s).
If your leader orders his soldiers (and his country!) to fight for wrong ideals it's hard to feel proud of them.
We judge our enemies by their actions but we want to be judged by our ideals. Do it in german shoes.

Once you've joined an army there is no choice weather to follow orders or not, but you may choose to join an army or not.
A mans duty is to think first!
It may make you support someones ideals, personal interests or desire for money and might by risking your life.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


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