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XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 06:51 PM
nope, it's not the radiator scoop thingie...

1) Air intake under the propeller: it was an air duct that went directly to the supercharger, no funky air filter as it is visible right now.

2) Landing gear doors stick out of the wing when opened

3) Right wheel spins backwards when taxiing

4) Missing VHF antenna mast running from canopy to vertical surface

5) Tail wheel doesnt unlock

for the rest the stang is a real cutie /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SJ



http://www.il2sturmovik.it

Visita il portale italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 06:51 PM
nope, it's not the radiator scoop thingie...

1) Air intake under the propeller: it was an air duct that went directly to the supercharger, no funky air filter as it is visible right now.

2) Landing gear doors stick out of the wing when opened

3) Right wheel spins backwards when taxiing

4) Missing VHF antenna mast running from canopy to vertical surface

5) Tail wheel doesnt unlock

for the rest the stang is a real cutie /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

SJ



http://www.il2sturmovik.it

Visita il portale italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 07:51 PM
...60km/h to fast...

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 08:19 PM
Good job on the FM, Oleg.



Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sigstang.jpg

ZG77_Nagual
11-02-2003, 08:47 PM
I'm amazed. Impeccable work!

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 08:51 PM
wastel wrote:
- ...60km/h to fast...
-

hi,
I guess they used the P-51 Reno Race type datas..or ?

let's see at the 1.2 release soon...




...just follow my wingman...
http://www.ss.iij4u.or.jp/~jime/images/Me109G6Anim/messer04LAN2.wmv
http://www.roedelmodell.de/original/Me109/me109-4s.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-02-2003, 09:03 PM
landing lights illumination is visible through the wings when the gears are up and lights retracted.



Message Edited on 11/02/0308:43PM by BaronVonSnoopy

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 12:18 AM
Possible bug:

Isn't the supercharger supposed to shift into high automatically? I've been doing it manually at 5000m.



Too fast? I don't think so. Sea level 360mph indicated looks right to me. I expect later variants with rockets stubs, bomb shackles, and drop tanks to fly slower. That D5 is a clean ship, and in my mind represents expected performance for a perfectly working, average new example.

I don't have a problem with US so-called 'advertizement' data from NACA and military testing, as I have flown several modern aircraft that are tested to the same standards, and all have 'met spec' according to my manuals. The one aspect that is difficult to verify is absolute top speed. I can only vouch for the absolute top speed of one airplane I've flown, and I can see how some would take issue with that parameter. How often do you fly max power, limits be damned, hehe.

Barfly
Staffelkapitan
7./JG 77 "Black Eagles"

http://www.7jg77.com

Message Edited on 11/02/0311:26PM by Panelboy

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 02:02 AM
I haven't seen a case of the Pony being too fast yet, at any altitude.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sigstang.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 07:36 AM
so 478mph TAS at 28000ft is ok??

LOL

i know of around 710mph at around 24 to 25000ft.

the p51 is well low, with 1. charger gear, but as soon
as you go up high with charger gear 2..the speed is much
too high.
but oleg knows it, he has tracks.

we still have an D modell here..not an H


wastel

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 08:06 AM
It can't be the plane! It must be an atmospheric problem, hehe.

Barfly
Staffelkapitan
7./JG 77 "Black Eagles"

http://www.7jg77.com

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 08:25 AM
you guys talking of MPH or KMH .

700+MPH sounds like YOUR pony has hit the SOund barrier... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Well I didn't encounter this. From personal feeling I even thought the Mustang to accelarate to slow, but besides it's a NICE BnZ plane ! Honest bird ! No fancy stuff !
It has however the same prob as all high speed fighters. Black out is a common friend http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



http://www.hell-hounds.de/sigs/gotcha.jpg

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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 08:32 AM
Let me say this very slow so you will understand.........
The.....Mustang.......was......that......fast.
Sorry you have listened to misinformed people too much, I have tested it as well at all altitudes and it's speed and "E" retention are spot on. The slow speed turning seems a little too good, but not that far off. But you are crazy to think it wasn't that fast a bird. Other than that the Mustang is exactly how I imagined not a superUber bird, but in the right hands will give any plane a and pilot a very bad headache. Thank you Oleg for the wonderful FM of the P-51 it is beautiful right down to the center of gravity issue if you load out too much fuel and yank around on the stick. Simply wonderful. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 09:11 AM
funny eagle,

give me 1!!! source, that show me an p51D (NOT AN H)
doing 478mph TAS (ca 765km/h) at 28000ft!

441mph (710km/h) at around 25000ft would be ok when running
on 5min WEP.
around THIS value is any source you will find for the p51D
(and yes, the handling at slower speeds is too good.
oleg has the infos and i hope he wil fix it

wastel

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 09:20 AM
First of all, I don't like the beta testers that distribute the info about not finished product.
I also don't like the people that speak about the things with sarcasm about the work in progress.

The beta releases to the people - testers that to find bugs. They need to report directly to developers, but not to post their thoughs on forums.

In nearest feature we will change our politics of trust to beta testers will select the new team, includeing the small part of old our beta testers that was never speaking to other than our team people. Simple we will select only serious testers, but not these that likes bla-bla-bla...

And for BoB we'll create new team in which we are sure 100%


SkyChimp wrote:
- Good job on the FM, Oleg.
-
-
-
-
- Regards,
-
- SkyChimp
-
<img
- src="http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sigstang.
- jpg">
-
-



Oleg Maddox
1C:Maddox Games

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:01 AM
hi,
agree.. Beta 1.2b is Beta.. and not a official release...

but think about one point back...in history of patch experiences since IL2/FB..over the last year.. ?

could it be that some of the Betatesters don't trust to the Maddox team...that some of the bugs would not fixed anymore..?

my two cents to this problem in general...to the quality management of software industry...even in game scene




Oleg_Maddox wrote:
- First of all, I don't like the beta testers that
- distribute the info about not finished product.
- I also don't like the people that speak about the
- things with sarcasm about the work in progress.
-
- The beta releases to the people - testers that to
- find bugs. They need to report directly to
- developers, but not to post their thoughs on forums.
-
- In nearest feature we will change our politics of
- trust to beta testers will select the new team,
- includeing the small part of old our beta testers
- that was never speaking to other than our team
- people. Simple we will select only serious testers,
- but not these that likes bla-bla-bla...
-
- And for BoB we'll create new team in which we are
- sure 100%
-
-
- SkyChimp wrote:
-- Good job on the FM, Oleg.
--
--
--
--
-- Regards,
--
-- SkyChimp
--
- <img
-- src="http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sigstang.
-- jpg"> --
--
-
-
-
-
- Oleg Maddox
- 1C:Maddox Games
-



...just follow my wingman...
http://www.ss.iij4u.or.jp/~jime/images/Me109G6Anim/messer04LAN2.wmv
http://www.roedelmodell.de/original/Me109/me109-4s.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:07 AM
first... there has never been any D version of the p51 who could exceed maximum speed of 439mp/h (706km/h) at any altitude..
no matter if equipped with the usual armament or not..

second... the only exception was the H version which could get V/max of exactly 487mp/h (784km/h) at the primary altitude range of 9000 up to 11000 m...

i just guess the effective power output of the charger at 2. gear is a bug which will still be fixed.. but in overall the p51 doesn`t seem to be too overmodelled.. turn rate at lower speed may be unsignificantly better than it was in reality when compared to the usaaf data sheets (even if they were overoptimistically presented) but climb/dive speed seems okay.. the only exception is the maximum speed as said above..

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:55 AM
hey,it started like a bug report and u r turning it into another boring "whiner campaign"...

SJ

http://www.il2sturmovik.it

Visita il portale italiano di IL-2 Sturmovik!!!

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 12:13 PM
wastel wrote:
- ...60km/h to fast...
-
-LOL! And here we go not even final yet and btw its not 60km/h too fast.
S~



http://www.angelfire.com/ab4/airplanes/P47_Thunderbolt/P47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 12:27 PM
Hi Guys,

I am no rodeo guy (riding the mustang) but I like it. So just a question:
when do you engage super-charger level 2 ?




http://www.hell-hounds.de/sigs/gotcha.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 12:28 PM
I would be very good beta testerhttp://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Oleg_Maddox wrote:
- First of all, I don't like the beta testers that
- distribute the info about not finished product.
- I also don't like the people that speak about the
- things with sarcasm about the work in progress.
-
- The beta releases to the people - testers that to
- find bugs. They need to report directly to
- developers, but not to post their thoughs on forums.
-
- In nearest feature we will change our politics of
- trust to beta testers will select the new team,
- includeing the small part of old our beta testers
- that was never speaking to other than our team
- people. Simple we will select only serious testers,
- but not these that likes bla-bla-bla...
-
- And for BoB we'll create new team in which we are
- sure 100%
-
-
- SkyChimp wrote:
-- Good job on the FM, Oleg.
--
--
--
--
-- Regards,
--
-- SkyChimp
--
- <img
-- src="http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/sigstang.
-- jpg">
--
--
-
-
-
-
- Oleg Maddox
- 1C:Maddox Games
-

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 01:10 PM
We love the game Oleg, and especially love to talk about it.

Everyone knows this is beta and not release, it's simply talk.

S!
609IAP_Recon

Forgotten Skies Virtual War
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Agnus Dei, Qui Tollis peccata mundi, Miserere nobis. Dona nobis pacem

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 03:50 PM
HI,
can you tell me please the exact speeds of the Mustang, i do not have any data but i'm interested in it cause i like the Stang verry much.

thank you.

VMF-214_HaVoK wrote:
-
- wastel wrote:
-- ...60km/h to fast...
--
--LOL! And here we go not even final yet and btw its not 60km/h too fast.
- S~


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Mess with the best, die like the rest...

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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 05:30 PM
Show me your screen shot with that TAS indicated(487 Mph or 828 Kph) in level flight and I may agree with you until then I assume you are trolling. The absolute fastest I have gotten the P-51 at any altitude with WEP is 430 Mph or 731 Kph which is right where it should be. In a dive it can hit that speed and more and if that is where you are comparing that is silly. But in level flight perfectly trimmed with WEP it should be anywhere between 420-437 Mph for the "D" model Mustang. Which I might add is very fast, and don't forget if you drop the nose and pick up more speed and the Mustang retains it "E" very well. I think the problem is more that the top speed of many a/c are off and finally we are seeing that being fixed.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG


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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 05:38 PM
The Mustang has the dirty glass of the lat model 109s. And the US cockpits are still very poorly lit.

What gives?

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 05:42 PM
something else, what about rearview mirrors?

I'm a crappy pilot, but one hell of a shot.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 06:13 PM
Everyone knows I'm a 190 guy by now I'm sure, and the 51 top speed seems right there to me, going to be a tough opponent. One thing I did notice was it's turn ability seems high *to me*. I took it for a slight dive up past top speed, and hit combat flap and yanked the stick...it practically made an instant change of direction to 90 degrees vertical. Maybe it was a fluke, and I will try it again. Maybe you could check it out for yourself, and see if I'm wrong, because I very well could be.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 06:34 PM
"Show me your screen shot with that TAS indicated(487 Mph or 828 Kph) in level flight and I may agree with you until then I assume you are trolling."

He's not trolling. I confirmed the test figures, also.

The P-51D in 1.2b does 760km/h at 7600m altitude. That's 474mph.

But this figure, is achieved with radiators closed. So, for one thing, there's no way the P-51D can accelerate to 760km/h in a pure level flight and manage that speed long. What it can do, is dive down from higher altitude, reach 760km/h at 7600m, and maintain that speed for a some time before the engine overheats due to WEP. (maintain that speed due to it's pure capabilities, not due to acceleration from dive)

Technically, that's enough to claim that the P-51D does 760km/h.

........

However, there are some things to note.

1) I have no knowledge of on which radiator settings the P-51D was tested in reality. For what it's worth, the 1.2b P-51D reaches the historical speed of 700km/h at 7600m, with radiator setting of 6 ~ open.

Were US testings on the P-51D done with half open radiators?


2) Also, there is some speculation on the British tests of the P-51D, where it reached only 414mph with severe overheating. I believe Oleg once quoted those figures also.

Some people are speculating that the Brits tested out the P-51D with the radiators closed, which was usually the standard procedure of many testings in many countries when people were measuring maximum speed over a short time.

However, if I remember correctly, the radiators of the P-51D were kept open usually, and it was this design of the radiators that produced a ramair effect, that accounted for its tremendous speed, coupled with sleek aerodynamics, that allowed the P-51D to be much faster than the Spit9 with the same engine. The so-called 'laminar flow' wing, wasn't what gave the P-51D it's speed.

..

3) If that be true, and judging by how 1.2b models the Mustang's speed, I think it would mean the P-51D would have to fly with wider radiator settings than other fighters, and narrower, or closed settings should cause overheating.

If the plane can fly with narrow or closed radiators and maintain 100% or 110% enough to reach 760km/h, as it is in 1.2b, then there's no reason for the real world data to list the plane's speed as "700km/h @ 7600m". By all means, they would have listed its speed as "760km/h @ 7600m with WEP".


...

So, any info on how the US tested their aircraft, would be appreciated. Also, any testings on the overheat situation of the 1.2b P-51D, with 100, 110% throttle, and various radiator settings, would also be greatly appreciated.




-----------
Due to pressure from the moderators, the sig returns to..

"It's the machine, not the man." - Materialist, and proud of it!

Message Edited on 11/04/0302:39AM by kweassa

ZG77_Nagual
11-03-2003, 06:38 PM
This is the best patch/addon I've ever seen for any simm. I've tried all the 190s, p39s, p51, ki84,zero, 109s.



http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 08:21 PM
Oleg, can't you give beta with specific identity to each tester? That way when it gets leaked you know which one leaked it?

Every patch gets leaked it's ridiculous. It starts the complaining before the patch is even out.

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 08:30 PM
760 Kph is not 828 Kph(that speed would be 487 Mph), that is what I am saying. 760 Kph is 447 Mph. Now that is a little high, more of the speed of the P-51B. Top recorded and accepted speed for the P-51D is 437 Mph. But again I tested it at various altitudes and settings with normal trim and all I was able to achieve in level flight was 430 Mph or 731 Kph.
~S!
Eagle
CO 361st vFG

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ZG77_Nagual
11-03-2003, 08:50 PM
He shouldn't have to /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

CrackFerret wrote:
- Oleg, can't you give beta with specific identity to
- each tester? That way when it gets leaked you know
- which one leaked it?
-
- Every patch gets leaked it's ridiculous. It starts
- the complaining before the patch is even out.
-
-



http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:24 PM
A) Screenshots are for suckers -- they don't reveal what came before.

B) All planes seem to turn too fast and easy.

C) How long after a dive and levelled off can this super-speed of 10mph high ( 10/437 = too big a margin of error? LOL! ) be held onto? If the boost was on and radiators closed during the dive then not very long at all. Was true level flight maintained or was there a very slight drop? It's easy enough to do that for a couple of minutes.

D) Whine enough and Oleg will "fix" it just like the FW's made to match best German data. We all know who had the superior technology so just take it from there, the P-51 is overmodelled, the La-7 is overmodelled, the 109's are undermodelled (except for G2 that is used to show the 109's are right every time, I agree!), etc, etc, etc.

E) The leaked beta is probably not the last change and if so then the patch will surely take longer now. Maybe it is good if honest errors get corrected but if FM POLITICS cause a delay and more distortions then damn the lot of you for posting about it! One time Oleg puts on a good face and declares an open beta and now it's smash and grab! Thanks!


Neal

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 10:46 PM
Salute Kweassa

The P-51 radiators, when partly open, delivered a net thrust/Drag advantage.

As far as I know, this is not the case when fully open, and also it depends on the temperature of the engine.

So if the plane is modelled correctly, it should be faster with the radiators open slightly.


Cheers RAF74 Buzzsaw

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:12 PM
the radiator exit is already 'open' in the game 'closed' position, so rad 2 is just a further opening of the radiator exit.

Barfly
Staffelkapitan
7./JG 77 "Black Eagles"

http://www.7jg77.com

XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:21 PM
hmm i'm not sure but if oleg has used the german data on his D9 it should be able to do about 600km/h at SL.
And it won't go that fast in FB.

no! Whining this was a correction.

if screens are 4 idiots or how you called them so let me tell you: i can send you a track which will show the Stang doing about 730km/h @ about 7k in level flight. I don't know if this is right or not, it's just verry fast, and to my knowledge was this the altitude for the K4 which was the fastest combat involved prop plane in WW2 at optimal alt, but maybe i'm wrong.

so feel free to correct me.


and guy's remember it is still just a Beta it is not Final, nor it's official.

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XyZspineZyX
11-03-2003, 11:30 PM
where do we get it, i want to get in trouble


"Never forget the past so we dont make the same mistakes in the future"

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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:12 AM
730 Kph is correct it equals out to 430 Mph roughly. I guess if screen shots are for suckers give us a link to a track that is even better to assertain what lead to this supposed 487 Mph Mustang. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif People are gonna cry even after the real patch is released but the Mustang is far from overmodelled, not even in the slightest degree.
~S!
Eagle
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XyZspineZyX
11-04-2003, 12:19 AM
"The beta is subject to a non-disclosure agreement and as such discussion of it is discouraged on these forums"

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