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View Full Version : win7 and older usb devices- worth the trouble of upgrading?



bolox00
12-03-2009, 06:50 AM
my current rig is FX57 with x1800xt gpu and still does the job on fb running at 1600*1200 res. would be nice to get something a bit more modern to run fsx at higher detail and cope with the slowdowns caused by cities/100 aircraft missions.

thinking of something like
http://www.overclockers.co.uk/...43&catid=339&subcat= (http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=BU-003-OB&groupid=43&catid=339&subcat=)
ppossibly 4890 vapour X gpu
corsair 850 psu
coolermaster haf 932 case
with win7 (home premium, 64bit?)

to me that should fulfil my needs http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
however i have quite a bit invested in hardware- namely:-
tarmac aces stick and throttle
simped F16 pedals
beta inovations controller ruuning 88 buttons/switches and trim pots
and would be 'slightly miffed' if none of it worked with win7
tarmac aces uses 2 bodnar bu8036 controllers (not the A) and if necessary i could just drop in an A unit-minor PITA but doable
simpeds i've not heard of problems with win7 but i don't recall anyone who's done it
betainnovations- here i think i really run into problems http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif- as they've gone out of business i think the chances of it being recognised seem slim

so does anyone have experiences of any of the above hardware under win7?

-or am i limited to upgrading to something to run on xp- ie 4gb ram?? i'm intending this to run my flight sims for next~3yrs or so

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-03-2009, 08:15 AM
AFAIK, the USB standard should apply equally to all OS's. Now if you're talking about device specific drivers and software that may be an issue, but most USB control devices use USB HID standards and should plug right in and work.

bolox00
12-03-2009, 09:36 AM
that would be logical..... but see
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9310655/m/4061062608 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/4061062608) indicates there could be a problem with bodnar stuff (and would appear firmware related)
hence i'm asking if anyone here has experience with these 'esoteric' controllers under win 7

software i know could be a problem- am probably gonna use this
http://www.digitaltransforms.com/

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-03-2009, 11:18 AM
Yeah, I recall that thread now, does indeed seem like it was a firmware issue, you should be OK cause it was only on older firmwares, fromthe second post:


Ugo,

This issue is with old firmwares - prior 12/07 I think - due M$ changes in USB HID descriptor.

Actual versions (BU0836, BU0836A or BU0836X) don't have problem.

I test one BU0836 "vanila" buy at ~3 mounts ago in Win7 64 bits, work OK.

Most likely there was a mistake in the original firmware that did not follow the USB HID standard which has since been corrected. I would write this off as a very rare occurrence since most companies will follow the proper standards (the whole point of industry standards is to prevent problems like this).

bolox00
12-03-2009, 12:42 PM
looks like i'll be melting my credit card over next few days then http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif
gonna be interesting as to how win7 handles more than 32 buttons

Sokol__1
12-03-2009, 12:43 PM
tarmac aces stick and throttle

AFAIK, Tarmac Aces use Leo Bodnar USB controller.

Best make a test in micro with Win7 installed.

BTW- T.Aces + Simped Pedals, very nice setup. Congratulations.

Sokol1

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-03-2009, 03:23 PM
Now there's an idea, it might be a bit of work but you should be able to take the controls to a pc shop and test them. It would be worth the hassle for complete assurance, though I highly doubt there will be issues. Wouldn't all the tarmac aces Bodner controllers be from post-fix batches?

UgoRipley
12-03-2009, 04:21 PM
Maybe you could use VirtualBox (or any virtual machine sw) to test in a virtual Win7 install ?

bolox00
12-12-2009, 06:27 AM
a little update on this now i've finally got win 7 installed (32 bit at mo cos 64 bit disk won't install :mad- http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif bit of a saga with this build already )

so the good news is the bu0836 and simpeds are discovered by windowsand work fine http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
the bad news is the betainnovations doesn't work- oh well looks like a couple of bu0836x's to replace throttle and beta device will get 64 buttons back unless someone knows of a controller that works with win 7 with more than 32 buttons

Urufu_Shinjiro
12-12-2009, 08:09 AM
I don't know if any of this will help but I found a mirror for the most up to date betainnovations software/driver/firmware.

http://www.simpits.org/bi_mirr.../secure/support.html (http://www.simpits.org/bi_mirror/support/secure/support.html)


Oh, and whats happening with x64?

bolox00
12-12-2009, 08:47 AM
cheers for trying- problem doesn't look like driver related - there isn't one (hid device) but comes up as unknown device in win 7- i'll play around some more but am half resigned to 'plan b' for it.

x64- comes up with error code 0x80070017 at the expanding windows part of installation. bit of googling suggests it is bad disk- tho all the cases i've seen were using burned dvd with d/l version of release candidate http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif- think i've got an interesting phonecall on monday morning

eckhart1957
01-14-2010, 04:40 PM
Hi Bolox,

Just read your thread about Win7 and Tarmac KG13, throttle and Simped F16. I have the same set but I am still with XP (not so sure about Windows 7..would like to hear your experience: http://www.overclockers.com/wi...ndows-7-benchmarks/) (http://www.overclockers.com/windows-xp-vs-windows-7-benchmarks/)).

I tested everything on my son's Win7 64 edition. I can assure that everything shows up nicely. So go for it if you want to.
By the way, my Tarmac stuff is slowly falling apart: the rev-up button on the throttle gave up after a few weeks, the firing lever doesn't lock anymore, the rubber cover of the base starts to rip, there is some jitter regarding the zero position of the stick etc. What is your experience with the Tarmac stuff? Did they go out of business because they ripped us off with high prices and poor quality?

Cheers,

Eckhart

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-14-2010, 05:10 PM
Originally posted by eckhart1957:
Hi Bolox,

Just read your thread about Win7 and Tarmac KG13, throttle and Simped F16. I have the same set but I am still with XP (not so sure about Windows 7..would like to hear your experience: http://www.overclockers.com/wi...ndows-7-benchmarks/) (http://www.overclockers.com/windows-xp-vs-windows-7-benchmarks/)).

I tested everything on my son's Win7 64 edition. I can assure that everything shows up nicely. So go for it if you want to.
By the way, my Tarmac stuff is slowly falling apart: the rev-up button on the throttle gave up after a few weeks, the firing lever doesn't lock anymore, the rubber cover of the base starts to rip, there is some jitter regarding the zero position of the stick etc. What is your experience with the Tarmac stuff? Did they go out of business because they ripped us off with high prices and poor quality?

Cheers,

Eckhart

Well that's disappointing to hear about the Tarmac stuff, it looked nice. If I spent that much and it started to fall apart that fast I would be sure I got my money back.

eckhart1957
01-15-2010, 10:11 AM
It is truly disappointing how a great idea can be ruined by poor execution (and perhaps greed?)...Or perhaps I was unlucky and got some Friday afternoon manufactured stuff. Money does not grow on trees and I had to work hard for that. Now as they are out of business, there is no way to get anything back. Still the idea of a long stick is great! Bolox can probably confirm. It changes the whole immersion feeling.
As I am a complete flightsim junky I continue to dream and put my economies into the 109/190 rudder replica from Schreinerschmid (known in many forums as "boandlgramer") http://www.schreinerschmid.com/11501.html . Seems to nicely manufactured and entered the semiprofessional world of simulators. I guess this is not a piece of junk as the Tarmac stuff was for me. He is distributed through Swiss professionals who know about quality http://www.simaviatik.com/en/.
I hope it will have the same quality as my simped which is still great, precise and working the same way it worked the day I received it (several years ago). I recommend this pedal but as a simjunkie (like Bolox http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif I believe) I had to get this great "Boandlgramer" pedal!

Urufu_Shinjiro
01-15-2010, 11:59 AM
Other than the button and possible sensor issues, how is the physical construction of the stick holding up, the gimbals and such? Even though you should have had an excellent product for that money to begin with, I would guess that it wouldn't be too difficult to use the hardware as a base and rewire it with better quility sensors and buttons.

bolox00
01-15-2010, 03:27 PM
actually my tarmac aces stuff is doing ok- the longer stick is very nice and really improves immersion and the throttle is superb feel- very smooth. only probs i've had with it was the plastic trigger (mg) - a bit broke off- still very usable . tarmac wanted me to return stick to fit a new metal trigger spoon (gratis). due to working away from home alot i didn't want to do that as speedy isn't the word i'd use in relation to them. C6 trollbug was extremely helpfull- however he left then next thing i knew was the no orders thing so it loooks like it'll just have to soldier on.
gimbals are fine. the jittering around centre seems to be related to getting the same centre position on both parts of the calibration.
the rubber boot is starting to stiffen up a little leading to a slight change in resistance as the 'fold' in it 'pops' out. might change it out for a cloth or similar cover ( similar to what some cougar owners have done)
i'm 20 months in and for me it's still light years ahead of anything else out there (with the exception of Boandlgramer's stick http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

my take on Tarmac is it nice try but not enough sales to justify continuing. i think they were going to do improvements- maybe as more of a 'hobby' than a commercial concern to sort out materials issues it could have been better??

re win 7- i'm having 'fun' with that http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif
see http://forums.ubi.com/eve/foru...9310655/m/3421057228 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/3421057228)
but have seen everything working fine under 64 bit- even got the beta innovations controller working and can use all 88 buttons (32 on must use keyboard emulation - oleg limitation) - sv mapper works well across all controllers in one profile/instance .

one 'silly' idea i have floating in my warped brain is to take the idea of the spit counterweight and extend the kg13 down with a weight on it to give a centering force

eckhart1957
01-15-2010, 09:10 PM
good to hear that you had a better experience. True the fundamentals are still ok with my stick as the gimbals seem to be ok. Agree with you that C6_Trollbug was really a great guy who wanted to take care of those problems but as you said speedy was not one of the characteristics of this team (they had probably other jobs to take care of).

My feeling was that they went into some kind of patent infringement lawsuit which killed them. Fortunately there is still Boandlgramer out there which gives us hope http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I will retain your idea of a cloth to cover the stick when time comes ( starts to split).

Your idea of a Spit counterweight is great!!! Please keep me updated ( did you see this "spit project" stuff which was unfortunately out of my financial reach?).

Re win7, are you a happy customer or would you advise me to stay with XP?

By the way, I am on complete watercooling and haven't any issue with temperature so far (hear my CPU and GPU sneezing because it is too cold for them http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )

Cheers,

Eckhart

bolox00
01-16-2010, 12:00 AM
my win7 experience has been rather brief- see my other thread- get pro version at least, for the xp compatability options http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif
can't really say too much about win 7 but it seemed ok. uac is annoying, get used to 'run as administrator' are my 'thing's to watch out for.

at some point you are probably going to go 64bit for stuff other than fb. there appear to be no adverse affects on fb (apart from securerom thing- uk here). hopefully in a month i might be able to comment more- i should have a working rig by then

re the bob weight- if i ever get to try it i will report but i'd say SOW will probably be out before i try it http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif- so don't hold your breath

WhiteSnake_76
01-16-2010, 05:06 PM
All Windows 7 versions got compatability options...

Its just Ultimate and Profesional than can run XP in a Virtual enviroment.

UAC was much worse on Vista, on Windows 7 its much better, only stops stuff that can be potencialy harmfull.

I have not had to use Compatability Mode for Win 98, or XP so far, and i even got Need 4 Speed Porsche (2000) Unleashed running great on Win 7 64 bit Home Premium with out it (unpatched)
Still the best NFS game ever.