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View Full Version : Im really realyl fed up with Fw190!!!



Maggi_4
03-01-2005, 08:20 AM
S! all
I have flown a Bw mission today, and pissed of myself about 190. We not have any advantage aganist Yaks, or Las! We had speed advantage, but after 3.04 (supercharger "fix") we can go only with 550 at sea level! I wouldn't mind if just 550, maybe it was like this at real, but Come On! Than Fw190 should turn like in real! How about that? In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn..."At the alt of 20-30m I could reach 600Km/h with MW50" In another notice it sais D9 was more a B&Z plane than A series...So big turning difference between A and D series...Im asking:is this a fairplay to those pilots who prefers german planes???

lbhskier37
03-01-2005, 08:22 AM
Ooooh cool, I get to be the first to tell you to learn to fly.

Zyzbot
03-01-2005, 08:42 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
S! all
I have flown a Bw mission today, and pissed of myself about 190. We not have any advantage aganist Yaks, or Las! We had speed advantage, but after 3.04 (supercharger "fix") we can go only with 550 at sea level! I wouldn't mind if just 550, maybe it was like this at real, but Come On! Than Fw190 should turn like in real! How about that? In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn..."At the alt of 20-30m I could reach 600Km/h with MW50" In another notice it sais D9 was more a B&Z plane than A series...So big turning difference between A and D series...Im asking:is this a fairplay to those pilots who prefers german planes??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


If you are trying to turnfight in the FW-190 you will lose.

ColoradoBBQ
03-01-2005, 09:07 AM
The Fw-190 series depend on their speed to dictate the fight;Russian fighters depend on their turn ability at low altitude where they can regain energy quickly. The Fw-190 can turn with the Russian planes at high speed but lose speed in the process. Learn to keep your speed up and make short turns where you can get you guns on the bandit quickly so you can keep you speed for the climb away from the engagement. Think like a shark, corral your prey then feast on them.

LeadSpitter_
03-01-2005, 09:09 AM
570 in the a4 5 6 580 a8 a9 f8

MEGILE
03-01-2005, 09:16 AM
Best plane and easiest to fly are two different things.

mynameisroland
03-01-2005, 10:00 AM
I flew online lastnight in An Fw190 A6 using altitude and engine management wisely I managed to shoot down three La5FN's in a large dogfight by picking an enemy , turning briefly getting an angle for a shot then extend BEFORE losing energy advantage and then repeat. The map changed otherwise i would have got more kills on that flight as my engine was not hammered, I still had ammo and I recieved no hits.

What you need to learn most is have an E advantage before you meet the enemy if you see a La5FN 1000m above you run away use you speed then return above him you cant out fight these Russian planes using turning tactics unless they are high speed turns for a short duration.

MOhz
03-01-2005, 10:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
S! all
In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

lol

RedNeckerson
03-01-2005, 10:55 AM
The FW190 is really a great a/c online.

crazyivan1970
03-01-2005, 11:33 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

Maggi_4
03-01-2005, 12:52 PM
hello again!
I really would like to hear Lw pilots opnions about this topic. Don't tell me we got something advantage at the same altitude with Fw190A8 against Yak3....

faustnik
03-01-2005, 12:56 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
hello again!
I really would like to hear Lw pilots opnions about this topic. Don't tell me we got something advantage at the same altitude with Fw190A8 against Yak3.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Speed, firepower, roll rate.

Brain32
03-01-2005, 01:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Maggi_4:
hello again!
I really would like to hear Lw pilots opnions about this topic. Don't tell me we got something advantage at the same altitude with Fw190A8 against Yak3....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Speed, firepower, roll rate.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Couldn't agree more and also what were you doing with FW on low altitudes?
FW is an excellent plane but you need a lot of practice to learn to fly it and to shoot(high speed gunnery), if you have speed and altitude advantage over your adversary there is no plane you can't deal with. You can trust me I'm flying FW190 & ME109 since original IL2.

mortoma
03-01-2005, 01:25 PM
I can send you a track where I got 6 kills against one Lagg and five I-16s in one mission easily. And had not even one scratch on my plane at the end. True, this was offline and they were stupid AI but even against AI, if you don't know how to fly the FW-190, you will lose, plain and simple.
Before I learned how to fly the FW I too got eaten alive, just like you do now by the LA's and Yaks and such. Even veteran AI will eat you up if you don't fly the thing correctly. Let alone flying online against even better humans!!! I was in the FW-190A4 and it's the slowest FW of all, but still I stayed fast and was able to evade them easily, while at the same time they were not able to evade me. I fly the FW as an energy fighter, but not BnZ style.
All BnZ is energy fighting but not all energy fighting is BnZ. My style is to simply stay fast and use my energy to extend away either level or slightly gaining altitude. If I must turn around
and lose energy, I do so well away from the enemy so I can regain the lost speed and energy as I get close to them and re-engage them. This is pure energy fighting but not really BnZ. True BnZ'ing would require even further separation and much greater altitude to be gained before re-engaging again. The best style of fighting with FW is very subtle and takes time to learn. I can send you my tracks ( original poster ) if you want to see how it's done.

Platypus_1.JaVA
03-01-2005, 02:02 PM
I find the 190 in PF 3.04 rather enjoyable. Very nice to fly, compared to let's say, Il-2 1.0? Seriously, it was much worse before. I glad Oleg now get's the hang of energy modelling. That must've been a hell of a work on the core engine.

Da_Godfatha
03-01-2005, 02:16 PM
Yo dude, don`t you know ALL panes are perfectly modeled! Nothing is wrong with any plane in this game!!

I find the Fw series goes alittle(IMO) to fast into a stall, BTW most planes do since the 3.04 patch.

Man, do not ever complain/whine/say anything about a flight model here. All you get is:

1. Learn to fly fool!
2. I am a hero and I shoot down everything that goes against me!
3. You don`t know nuthin little girlie!
4. Show me the facts and figures!!

Maybe someday this wierdness will get fixed! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Da_Godfatha
03-01-2005, 02:18 PM
Sorry ! Double post ! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Maggi_4
03-01-2005, 03:38 PM
Hmm guys, I think you got me wrong. I can fly with Fw 190, and kill Ai veterans, and humans in coop missions (or dog, doesn't matter). It's no problem to use it as an energy fighter. But I want more from this plane. It shouldn't be "braking so hard while turning" ( And Im not pulling the stick as hard as I can, just nicely, lightly). Platypus, you are right in this one, Fw is a lot better in 3.04 than in 1.00 (but it's not perfect). Anyway, D9 could turn down a Thunderbird, and not I said that, it was a II.WW pilot. I think that's quite a fact.


P.S.: Godfather, how do you know everthing is perfectly modelled? have you flyed them all in real? I guess you haven't even flown online. I think a II.WW pilot's describe of plane is enough fact for me.

S!

V.4_Maggi

VW-IceFire
03-01-2005, 04:08 PM
I'm a FW190 flyer through and through. The problems you're describing are typical of people still learning the FW190. Its a tough and sometimes frusterating aircraft to fly in the situations we put them through but its really a lovely aircraft thats pretty much better than anything else out there when you give it what it needs.

Rules of the FW190 pilot:
1) Never turn with your enemy, always gently zoom away
2) Keep your speed always
3) Make passes on an enemy at high speed
4) Work in teams

As for FW190A vs 190D comparisons...the FW190D-9 was the better turner of the late war FW190s (A-8 through D-9 anyways). Its also a better BNZ machine because of its superb engine power and zoom climb. But what it gains in one area it losses in another and its firepower is less impressive.

Also, in the given scenario of level altitude with a Yak-3...you run...if you're daring...try a headon pass and then run like you've got a thousand ton boulder about to flatten you because the Yak-3 is a superb close in dogfighter and will beat you in every way. There's a reason that the Luftwaffe warned its pilots to avoid engaging the Yak-3 at low altitude without numerical superiority.

The FW190 is superior in many respects to its opponents but it doesn't make them up right away and its an awesome machine when people work as a team.

chris455
03-01-2005, 04:14 PM
Again, the question becomes, why are you trying to turnfight with the Wurger in the first place?
So what if it could outturn a Jug, I think a B-25 could too, for that matter.

This is like asking,
"Why can't I drill holes with my hammer?".
Am I missing something?

Airmail109
03-01-2005, 04:43 PM
Please tell me I didnt actually read this....its all a bad dream!?! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

MOhz
03-01-2005, 04:51 PM
I do not agree with the poster on the A series are better DFers, but I find it believable that a Dora could outturn a Jug, not just like that, and hoenstly speaking it actually already does...

StellarRat
03-01-2005, 05:03 PM
You guys are sadly mistaken if you think you can outturn a P-47 in a D9 or A9. It's a good way to get shotdown.

Bull_dog_
03-01-2005, 06:13 PM
Get online and fly with some Fw jocks.

There is only one species of Yak to worry about in this game and the suffex is a "U" or "UT"

The Fw has an advantage to the others above 4000 meters or so and really puts a whooping on them at 6000 meters....that goes for all species of La's although I find the La-7 to be pesky at that altitude, you can leave them when you want...but the La is faster at sea level.

You just have to learn your aircraft and its opitimum performance envelope and lose the attitude and misconception that a plane can engage and win all the time....there are times to run! Unless you don't mind hitting refly alot.

TAGERT.
03-01-2005, 07:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn..."At the alt of 20-30m I could reach 600Km/h with MW50" In another notice it sais D9 was more a B&Z plane than A series...So big turning difference between A and D series...Im asking:is this a fairplay to those pilots who prefers german planes??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>So how much better is better? Is it like 2.4*better or only 2.399*better?

I can C the C code now!

<span class="ev_code_green">/* constants prior to Maggi_4 whine */</span>
<span class="ev_code_green">//#DEFINE P47_TURN_RATE 3.03
//#DEFINE FW_190_TURN_RATE 2.30*P47_TURN_RATE</span>

<span class="ev_code_green">/* constants after to Maggi_4 whine */</span>
<span class="ev_code_red">#DEFINE</span> P47_TURN_RATE <span class="ev_code_black">3.03</span>
<span class="ev_code_red">#DEFINE</span> FW_190_TURN_RATE <span class="ev_code_black">LW_WHINE_RATE/0.00</span>

<span class="ev_code_black">int</span> assign_rturn()
<span class="ev_code_black">{</span>
p47d_rturn = P47_TURN_RATE;
fw190_rturn = FW_190_TURN_RATE;
<span class="ev_code_black">return 0;
}</span>

Hunde_3.JG51
03-01-2005, 08:12 PM
Speed tests under Oleg's conditions (though I did use 50% fuel) at SL (km/h TAS):

190A-4: 549
190A-5/6: 578
190A-8: 590
190A-9: 598
190D-9: 606
Late 190D-9: 611

*Note: higher speeds for Antons can be reached with 100% manual pitch but you will overheat engine quickly.

No problems there.

As for out-turning the P-47, the last time I tested the A-8, A-9, and D-9 were all out-turned by the P-47 even at low altitude (which in my opinion is wrong). Still, even if it did you should not be turn fighting, period, it is a good way to have another plane come down and take you out. Note this last comment was not directed at you if you know this already.

Overall I find the handling of the FW-190 acceptable, it is what other planes are capable of that concerns me. I think there are still some issues with dive acceleration, zoom climb, energy retention, best climb speed/angle, etc. that really limit FW-190 to hit and run type tactics. I think this is the point you are trying to make. Still, FB/AEP/PF engine is getting long in the tooth and I expect BoB to be much more complex so we will see. Nor have I flown real aircraft, so my assumptions are based on pilot reports and opinion.

Also, if you haven't already I would check out "IL-2 compare", this will give you a good idea of where your plane performs best vs. certain opponents in terms of speed and climb, just don't bother looking at turn rate because compared to its contemporaries the FW-190 is the worst turning fighter in FB/AEP/FB at low speeds (and it was poor in real life). In high speed handling it is one of the best, which I also believe was true IRL.

And just to reiterate what others have said, flown properly the FW-190 is an absolute killer in this sim. I can post my tips if you like, if you feel you don't need them then that is fine as well, just an offer.

Oh, and if anything needs to be re-examined it is the DM of the FW-190.

VW-IceFire
03-01-2005, 08:36 PM
Mmm turn fighting with the FW190 VS P-47? I find this to be a close contest and the FW190s roll rate factors into the fight. The jug has a good roll but not as good as the FW190s by any stretch. I find the fights to be very evenly balanced...a good FW and a good P-47 driver (generally these people are the same type of fighter pilot too) are going to be almost dead even in a fight.

I find, and I think this is documented historically, that the P-47 has a slightly better turn at lower speeds than the FW190. Probably has to do with wing design/shape over any other overriding factor.

If you asked me which aircraft was more agile the P-47D-27 or the FW190D-9...I'd say FW190D-9 hands down. But its a close contest when flown by two veteran sim pilots.

Badsight.
03-01-2005, 10:53 PM
PFFFT at just about every single reply

with a golden thread starter like we had you let it slip right thru your buttery fingers

this forum has had a big kick in the balls or what . . . . fricken mummys boys the lot of you

especially you Tagert , you let me down the most , i mean this thread starter was right up your street dude . come on man , wheres the Tagert we all know & love , enough with the equations . . . . more character assumptions !

ooooh how bad would Badsight get it posting what this thread started with

off to change my login to "seriously_let_down"

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 12:08 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
PFFFT at just about every single reply <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that PFFFT with 3 "F"'s or 2?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
with a golden thread starter like we had you let it slip right thru your buttery fingers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It wasnt the butter that made it slip

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
this forum has had a big kick in the balls or what . . . . fricken mummys boys the lot of you <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Send me your mum's number and we will see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
especially you Tagert , you let me down the most, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you also operating under the false impression that I some how care what you think about me?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
i mean this thread starter was right up your street dude. come on man, wheres the Tagert we all know & love, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Put down the bottle and step away.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
enough with the equations . . . . more character assumptions ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>E = mc‚¬≤

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
ooooh how bad would Badsight get it posting what this thread started with

off to change my login to "seriously_let_down" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now you know how your parents feel

Aztek_Eagle
03-02-2005, 12:22 AM
fw190 cannot do sharp 180 degree turn, if u r on same terms, u can split s alot, split s can help u shake ur enemy away from ur six, and make him over shoot u , and ur shooting turn then

Galaboo
03-02-2005, 12:26 AM
MW 50 doesn't seem to boost the engine like it used to...

Badsight.
03-02-2005, 12:29 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Is that PFFFT with 3 "F"'s or 2? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>just 3 like i typed

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
It wasnt the butter that made it slip
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>whatever it was caused it too tho
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Send me your mum's number and we will see. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>i would but the fact shes all class kinda leaves you out in the cold
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Are you also operating under the false impression that I some how care what you think about me? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>aww you cut me sir , you let yourself down at the least then
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
Now you know how your parents feel <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>yep im in regular contact , they are ace , & it rubbed off on me

Aztek_Eagle
03-02-2005, 12:35 AM
kill ur selfves, i dont like nither of u

Badsight.
03-02-2005, 12:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Aztek_Eagle:
kill ur selfves, i dont like nither of u <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>less chatter from the eaisly killed !

MaxMhz
03-02-2005, 01:51 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Don't forget you still can't see over the "hood" either ...
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

VF-29_Sandman
03-02-2005, 05:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
S! all
I have flown a Bw mission today, and pissed of myself about 190. We not have any advantage aganist Yaks, or Las! We had speed advantage, but after 3.04 (supercharger "fix") we can go only with 550 at sea level! I wouldn't mind if just 550, maybe it was like this at real, but Come On! Than Fw190 should turn like in real! How about that? In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn..."At the alt of 20-30m I could reach 600Km/h with MW50" In another notice it sais D9 was more a B&Z plane than A series...So big turning difference between A and D series...Im asking:is this a fairplay to those pilots who prefers german planes??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

omg, i thought i heard the sound of a 3 yr old bumblin into a nest of seriously ticked off yellowjackets! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

if u think the 190 is bad, try the 38. like the p-38, u wont outrun many planes unless u have energy displine down as if ur life actually counted on it. methinks u fail to do this, and try to turn with these spitfires.....and u will lose each and every time u do so.

mynameisroland
03-02-2005, 05:55 AM
Tagert why have you posted in this thread?

To Troll perhaps?

Vipez-
03-02-2005, 06:04 AM
yak3 vs 190 a tight fight imo.. yak3 goes 570-580 kmh sealevel so a-8 has very hard times against yak3..

Someone said fw190 has better firepower ? I find Yak3 twin UBS and one shvak more deadly than fw190 a8s 4x mg151/20 + twin mg131.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif offcourse i am not counting the Sturmbock armament.

is it only me or... ?

mynameisroland
03-02-2005, 06:16 AM
If your speed is up in a multiple bogey situation you dont need to Engage in the Fw A8 / A9 you can choose to run away and come back when you are in a better position.

If I minimise manuvering and stay at speed keeping the manuvers on the horizontal but over 500 k I cant defeat a Yak 3. Never fight it close in horizontal or vertical however keep it at a distance. In the D9 you can whip it and you can even venture in to a vertical E fight. Remember a few hits on the Yak or if its forced to fly at max throttle too long to keep up with you then you are a t a real advantage. It cant runaway ..

WOLFMondo
03-02-2005, 06:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Mmm turn fighting with the FW190 VS P-47? I find this to be a close contest and the FW190s roll rate factors into the fight. The jug has a good roll but not as good as the FW190s by any stretch. I find the fights to be very evenly balanced...a good FW and a good P-47 driver (generally these people are the same type of fighter pilot too) are going to be almost dead even in a fight.

I find, and I think this is documented historically, that the P-47 has a slightly better turn at lower speeds than the FW190. Probably has to do with wing design/shape over any other overriding factor.

If you asked me which aircraft was more agile the P-47D-27 or the FW190D-9...I'd say FW190D-9 hands down. But its a close contest when flown by two veteran sim pilots. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think the biggest factor there is what height the fight starts at. I think the 190D's and A' both have better performance under 6000m and certainly more agile, the Jugs weight lets it down as well. The one thing the FW190 cant follow the Jug in is a tight spiral dive.

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 08:50 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
Tagert why have you posted in this thread? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>To emphisie just how usless a statement like "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" is in determining how well a simulation simulates

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
To Troll perhaps? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You nice?

mynameisroland
03-02-2005, 09:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
PFFFT at just about every single reply <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Is that PFFFT with 3 "F"'s or 2?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
with a golden thread starter like we had you let it slip right thru your buttery fingers <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>It wasnt the butter that made it slip

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
this forum has had a big kick in the balls or what . . . . fricken mummys boys the lot of you <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Send me your mum's number and we will see.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
especially you Tagert , you let me down the most, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Are you also operating under the false impression that I some how care what you think about me?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
i mean this thread starter was right up your street dude. come on man, wheres the Tagert we all know & love, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Put down the bottle and step away.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
enough with the equations . . . . more character assumptions ! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>E = mc‚¬≤

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
ooooh how bad would Badsight get it posting what this thread started with

off to change my login to "seriously_let_down" <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Now you know how your parents feel <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I call this a troll post it makes to contribution to the thread so its not a matter of me being nice or not.

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 10:26 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
I call this a troll post it makes to contribution to the thread <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it very amusing that you consider my responce to a troll post a troll post. Please take a moment and look at what I was responding to. At which point you *should* be able to realise I was just responding in kind. Put another way, I didnt start it.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mynameisroland:
so its not a matter of me being nice or not. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's nice, but are you nice?

mortoma
03-02-2005, 11:15 AM
Beat it Tagert, everyone knows you're a troll now as proven by your responses to me in the infamous 'realistic tracer' thread. All you come in to the forums to do is to cause trouble and attempt to illicit anger amongst innocent posters. To me that is a classic "troll"!!! Go take you twenty something immature attitude somewhere else.

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 11:56 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Beat it Tagert, everyone knows you're a troll now as proven by your responses to me in the infamous 'realistic tracer' thread. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Proven? I think the only thing that tread proved is some people belive a tracer can hop up and down, left and right, like they appear to do in WWII gun cam footage. And that some people belive in Big Foots and UFOs.. And that they tend to be one in the same person.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
All you come in to the forums to do is to cause trouble and attempt to illicit anger amongst innocent posters. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Innocent? I guess you and mynameisroland have the same rose colored glasses that filter out Badsight's post to me, to which I responded in kind. Dont hate me because I better at *it* when I respond in kind or up it a notch. I just *feel* if someoen is going to call me a mama's boy I have the right to ask what thier mama's is doing tonight.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
To me that is a classic "troll"!!! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Again, you seem to still be operating under the false impressin that I care what you think.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mortoma:
Go take you twenty something immature attitude somewhere else. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Lead the way son!

Bremspropeller
03-02-2005, 12:25 PM
Comparing the RL Anton-8 and Dora-9, the D-9 was actually heavier (due to it's liquid-cooled engine which is considerably heavier than the air-cooled one of the "Anton").

But: the D-9 had better aerodynamics (power was the same at low alts, but the D-9's Jumo performed better at high alts) and it's prop had a much more efficient shape (the blades were wider and longer).

The only thing that pisses ME off is the weakness of the Mauser-cannon: I can hardly kill two Thunderbolts with the Dora-9 (I know they were tough birds, but that's simply ridiculous..).

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 02:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Comparing the RL Anton-8 and Dora-9, the D-9 was actually heavier (due to it's liquid-cooled engine which is considerably heavier than the air-cooled one of the "Anton").

But: the D-9 had better aerodynamics (power was the same at low alts, but the D-9's Jumo performed better at high alts) and it's prop had a much more efficient shape (the blades were wider and longer). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good points and that discription tends to agree with what I have gathered from my readings.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
The only thing that pisses ME off is the weakness of the Mauser-cannon: I can hardly kill two Thunderbolts with the Dora-9 (I know they were tough birds, but that's simply ridiculous..). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Which begs the quetion.. Is it your aim? Or is it the weapon? Simple test, create a mission where there is a P47 parked on the run way.. i.e. not moving.. Then vultch it and record a track. Note how many and where you hits are.. Ill be you will be suprised to see that it does a fine job of destroying it. Then you can do the same in flight, take a track and then note how much you miss the tgt.. There is also an option.. i forget what it is.. But it will show you all the hit vectors.. That gives you a reall good visual idea of when and where you hit it

Badsight.
03-02-2005, 09:11 PM
tagerty tagerty tagerty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif what part of my sentiment of dissapointment was a trolling/fishing for response post ?

you had a golden opportunity to live up to your character & describe all sorts of stupid things , in your own humourous way that we know , about his character

but nooooooooo

you post some equation instead

you & the rest of the members who bothered to reply in some way to the thread starter really let this forum down , big time

the golden age has passed , we are in the PF dawn with its "dont care anymore" attitude . the world is beating you all down it seems

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 09:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
tagerty tagerty tagerty http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif what part of my sentiment of dissapointment was a trolling/fishing for response post ?

you had a golden opportunity to live up to your character & describe all sorts of stupid things , in your own humourous way that we know , about his character

but nooooooooo

you post some equation instead

you & the rest of the members who bothered to reply in some way to the thread starter really let this forum down , big time

the golden age has passed , we are in the PF dawn with its "dont care anymore" attitude . the world is beating you all down it seems <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>yawn = 4*snooze + blink;

Badsight.
03-02-2005, 09:50 PM
man if thats all you got you really are slipping

pretty soon youll be doing the armchair aerobics with all the other pensioners at the home

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 09:52 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
man if thats all you got you really _are_ slipping

pretty soon youll be doing the armchair aerobics with all the other pensioners at the home <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>You Nice?

Badsight.
03-02-2005, 09:54 PM
mostly

well , especially in-game

cant stand gamers who try to lower other peoples enjoyment down with bickering

its boring

TAGERT.
03-02-2005, 10:01 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
mostly

well , especially in-game <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>That's nice.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Badsight.:
cant stand gamers who try to lower other peoples enjoyment down with bickering

its boring <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I have a blue chair, it sits out side and the dog likes to jump up on it sometimes when Im not looking.

VFA195-MaxPower
03-02-2005, 10:42 PM
bla bla bla wah wah wah bla bla bla wah wah wah

Let's see whose ego is bigger, shall we?

Thread notification: ON!

Maggi_4
03-03-2005, 06:17 AM
S!
Im not having problem with D9 firepower, but It's really hard to destroy a Beufighter from behind. You can kill any plane on ground easily, cause you can see a big surface of it, not like in the air 300m behind. If we could shoot down planes with D9, what would D12's challange?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If I can remember correctly D12 is almost same as D9, just better firepower: 1x30mm, 2x20mm, just like Ta152.
But not this is the point I have opened a topic about, is that, no fighters can manuver so sh*t like Fw. And this is not acceptable, even if it's still a great fighter plane like a flying brick.
Those guys, who are argueing on this topic, please stop, and don't off the topic. Thanks.

V.4_Maggi

Maggi_4
03-03-2005, 07:39 AM
I made some tests today about speed between 0-400m (we can say it's sea level):
Fw-190D9 '45 with 100% fuel, Radiator Closed, Mw50, 100% prop.pitch: 570Km/h. (v.3.04)
I was flying about 5 minutes, and maybe it could speed up to 580, but engine overheated, so I had to pull down the thurst.
Than I looked around in Il2 in 'view objects' menu. I found two intresting notices in the following planes text: Yak-7B, LaGG-3IT, Fw190D9
"turntime at 1000m:" Yak-7B: 24sec, LaGG-3IT: 22 sec, Fw190D9 '44: 22 sec. Maybe I got the text wrong, or D9 should turn like a LaGG3 IT? Or Lagg3 should turn like D9, and Yak7 even worse? Is this "turn at 1000m" is totally horizontal turnings (I mean no loop)?


V.4_Maggi

TAGERT.
03-03-2005, 08:59 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
Im not having problem with D9 firepower, <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, so guns are fine, it is the DM of the P47 you have a problem with? Guess I was corrent in assuming you felt the P47 was too hard to kill and thus needs to adj the DM model to make it ezer to kill.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
but It's really hard to destroy a Beufighter from behind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no idea how hard it would be to kill a Beufighter.. Not alot of data out there one it that I can find.. That and I dont have any pilot stories on it's durability. Which is all very subjecive anyways.. DM's in and of them selfs are a bit of a W.A.G anyways.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
You can kill any plane on ground easily, cause you can see a big surface of it, not like in the air 300m behind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Well you can match the distance.. And it is like a plane doing a hard turn in front of you.. The idea was your aim would be ezer to maintain, thus seeing if the problem is your aim on a moving target and not the guns or DM of the plane

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
If we could shoot down planes with D9, what would D12's challange?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif If I can remember correctly D12 is almost same as D9, just better firepower: 1x30mm, 2x20mm, just like Ta152. But not this is the point I have opened a topic about, is that, no fighters can manuver so sh*t like Fw. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, so let me see if I got this straight.. The guns are fine, the DM of the P47 and now Beufighter are too good and the Fw190 can not manuver? Does that sum it up pretty well? I think I have noticed something in your orginal post.. You seem to be thinking that *turn rate* and *roll rate* are one in the same.. They are not.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
And this is not acceptable, even if it's still a great fighter plane like a flying brick. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>I dont know, I find the Fw190 to be one of the best fighters in the game.. manuver wise! The Fw190 to the P51 is like the P40 to the ZERO. You have to use it's strenghts and the strenghts in these two match ups are the ROLL RATES of the Fw190 and the P40. I fly in the ZEKES vs. WILDCATS server alot.. And the ZERO can not touch me in a P40 because I simply roll left, the right, and repeat and after a few sizziors like that the zero over shoots me and I fill him full of lead. The Fw190 can do the same vs just about ever US fighter! Learn to fly and use the planes advantages and you will be fine.. At which point you will also start to notice that you experance start to match alot of what you read about the plane by the people that flew them in WWII. Even Kit Carson made a reference to the Fw190 great roll rate.. He also made reference to how the Fw190 is like the P39 in an acc stall condition where the 190 will flip over on it's back.. I actually see guys making use of that *feature* on line to evaid! So, it really boilds down to the pilot and tatics.. Not the plane as much imho.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
Those guys, who are argueing on this topic, please stop, and don't off the topic. Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes please!

AFJ_Locust
03-03-2005, 09:22 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
S! all
I have flown a Bw mission today, and pissed of myself about 190. We not have any advantage aganist Yaks, or Las! We had speed advantage, but after 3.04 (supercharger "fix") we can go only with 550 at sea level! I wouldn't mind if just 550, maybe it was like this at real, but Come On! Than Fw190 should turn like in real! How about that? In JG26 war diary I found the next notice from Karl-Heinz Ossenkop: "Fw190 D9 turns better than P47" so imagine how A series could turn..."At the alt of 20-30m I could reach 600Km/h with MW50" In another notice it sais D9 was more a B&Z plane than A series...So big turning difference between A and D series...Im asking:is this a fairplay to those pilots who prefers german planes??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Maggi, Right now the German ac have it all !!!

They have Speed, Climbing Power, Best Gunz in the game FW has the best Instant turn rate of any ac, It cant hold it long but it is usefull for Highspeed snapshots, Stay Fast Shoot straight Get a Whingman in a FW to cleen yer six FW work best in pairs & there deadly when its done right

The190Flyer
03-03-2005, 01:58 PM
Maggi, it sounds like you were a little full of yourself and our abilities when you tried to fly this plane. I think that the 190 and the P-39 are the toughest stalls in the game plane wise. But when you learn em they are deadly to fly and very fun! Just need a little more practice in it thats all.

Bremspropeller
03-03-2005, 03:02 PM
It's certainly not my aim..I used to bring down a whole flight of P-47s and had ammo left some patches ago - now I can hardly down two of them.

The Mausers are somewhat weaker than they used to be.

As already written in ORR: the 151/20 (in-game) lacks the Minengeschoss.

TAGERT.
03-03-2005, 03:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
It's certainly not my aim.. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Just pointing out just one of the many posibitys.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
I used to bring down a whole flight of P-47s and had ammo left some patches ago - now I can hardly down two of them.

The Mausers are somewhat weaker than they used to be. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Or the P47s are stonger? I mean did it make sense to you that you *could* take out a whole flight of P47s with ammo to spare?

I can describe a test you can do to PROVE it one way or another.. Use the mission builder, place you 190 on the runway and place a B17 or some other plane right in front of it. Dont start the motor, dont take off, just start the mission and pull the trigger. Make a track file of it while your doing it. Now take that same mission and goto an earlier version.. the one where you use to down 100s of P47s and do the same. When your done send me the track files and I can show you how to prove to yourself that the mausers are not weaker.

Bremspropeller
03-03-2005, 03:18 PM
It's not only the Thunderbolt - I just used it as an example http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

It's an overall impression..some time ago you let the opponent fly through your bullet-stream and watched his wing seperating from the fuselage...
Now it's just like *puff-puff*..nice fireworks.. but without an effect on the opponent's a/c.

faustnik
03-03-2005, 03:32 PM
Tagert,

The Mg151/20 did change. All current mountings except the Bf109 gunpods do not contain minengeschoss rounds in there belt loads. Check this thread:

Mg151 Loadout thread (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=3821034482)

So, the gun is working as it should, it just is not using its most effective ammo type.

**********************

In regards to the P-47 DM, it isn't too tough. The wings still pop right off if you hit them in the right spot. HE rounds to the tail section will mess up controls very nicely. The Jug also has a glass jaw, with the R-2800 being very vulnerable.

thomasbernie
03-03-2005, 03:36 PM
When I see a 190, my mouth waters.

Monty_Thrud
03-03-2005, 03:57 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gifI'd go see a Doctor about that, if i were you

TAGERT.
03-03-2005, 04:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
It's not only the Thunderbolt - I just used it as an example http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Ah, ok, but did it *feel* right that it could take out a whole sqd of P47s with ammo to spare? I dont have any proof one way or another, just it does not *feel* right to me. But, who is to say really? Like I said before, we dont hear much from the dead guys! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
It's an overall impression..some time ago you let the opponent fly through your bullet-stream and watched his wing seperating from the fuselage... Now it's just like *puff-puff*..nice fireworks.. but without an effect on the opponent's a/c. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Roger, well, I dont know what to think than.. Appears some folks like faustnik are providing links that show there was a change made to the guns destructive power.. And from what you described.. Old version took out whole squads of P47s to current version only takes out one and a half.. I would have to say that *feels* right to me.. Based off what I have read about the P47.. But, again, I have no proof one way or another.. Do you? DM stuff is such a wag in that there is not a whole lot of test pilots out there back in WWII that were willing to allow you to shoot at them while they were flying! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

TAGERT.
03-03-2005, 04:12 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Tagert,

The Mg151/20 did change. All current mountings except the Bf109 gunpods do not contain minengeschoss rounds in there belt loads. Check this thread:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&s=400102&f=63110913&m=3821034482

So, the gun is working as it should, it just is not using its most effective ammo type.

**********************

In regards to the P-47 DM, it isn't too tough. The wings still pop right off if you hit them in the right spot. HE rounds to the tail section will mess up controls very nicely. The Jug also has a glass jaw, with the R-2800 being very vulnerable. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Cool thanks for the link! So, what is the concesses on that? Was it a intended change or an error (aka bug) that will get corrected in the next patch?

faustnik
03-03-2005, 04:19 PM
Tagert,

From what I understand:

It was not an error, it was a descision based on a historical report.

Oleg said that he did not plan on changing it in PF.


**************

Check out the gunpods on the 109. The Mg151 with minengeschoss is nasty! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

TAGERT.
03-03-2005, 04:23 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by faustnik:
Tagert,

_From what I understand:_

It was not an error, it was a descision based on a historical report.

Oleg said that he did not plan on changing it in PF.


**************

Check out the gunpods on the 109. The Mg151 with minengeschoss is nasty! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Huh, ok thanks for the heads up.. So in summary, the 190 and 109 use to load explosive rounds in the nose cannon.. And now they dont and just the gun pods get them? Is that right? Hmmmm I guess I could see where you wouldnt want an explosive round in the nose cannon.. If it jammed that could be a problem.. But heck, any jam would probally take out the motor? Anyway, thanks for the info!

faustnik
03-03-2005, 04:34 PM
All the Mg151/20 has standard high explosive but, not the special minengeschoss, thin walled explosive rounds. There are some good charts and drawings on this near the end of the thread I posted, it's interesting stuff. With the minengeschoss rounds the Mg151/20 gets near Hispano power (well, against a/c, not the Hispano's great armor piercing ability). Like I said, try the gunpods and be impressed!

Bremspropeller
03-04-2005, 11:43 AM
I said "flight" (four a/c), not "squadron" (16 a/c).

It's not unlikely to take down four of them - at least with 3 out of 5 rounds being Minengeschoss-rounds (at least two times more effective than a normal HE-round).

During WW2 the average "burst-time" was rather short (if your approach to the enemy was right) - there wa not too much ammo to be used in order to set the enemy afire.

Well, I don't want to start a flame-war concerning the toughness of the P-47.


My point was that a/c now generally absorb more Mauser-damage than before (again: the Thunderbolts were just an example).

VW-IceFire
03-04-2005, 03:06 PM
You may not physically destroy a P-47 with the MG151/20 but you can take out the controls fairly easily. Aim for the tail if you want their controls. Otherwise, hammer away at one of the wings. That'll bring down even a P-47 fairly quickly.

That said, I haven't fought one for a while.

TAGERT, what the community has found is that the MG151/20 has an interesting belt loadout that leaves out the mine shell which provides the majority of the hitting power of the cannon. This is the shell that puts the MG151/20 side by side with the Hispano for destructive power and with the gunpods they are...but not on the standard guns used on all other locations. Just the 109s gunpods...them only.

KTxychromosome
03-04-2005, 03:53 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maggi_4:
Hmm guys, I think you got me wrong. I can fly with Fw 190, and kill Ai veterans, and humans in coop missions (or dog, doesn't matter). It's no problem to use it as an energy fighter. But I want more from this plane. It shouldn't be "braking so hard while turning" ( And Im not pulling the stick as hard as I can, just nicely, lightly). Platypus, you are right in this one, Fw is a lot better in 3.04 than in 1.00 (but it's not perfect). Anyway, D9 could turn down a Thunderbird, and not I said that, it was a II.WW pilot. I think that's quite a fact.


P.S.: Godfather, how do you know everthing is perfectly modelled? have you flyed them all in real? I guess you haven't even flown online. I think a II.WW pilot's describe of plane is enough fact for me.

S!
V.4_Maggi <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You totally misunderstood DaGodafathers post!
He was being facetious about planes being perfect, and actually agrees with you.

OldMan____
03-07-2005, 08:38 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bremspropeller:
Comparing the RL Anton-8 and Dora-9, the D-9 was actually heavier (due to it's liquid-cooled engine which is considerably heavier than the air-cooled one of the "Anton").

But: the D-9 had better aerodynamics (power was the same at low alts, but the D-9's Jumo performed better at high alts) and it's prop had a much more efficient shape (the blades were wider and longer).

The only thing that pisses ME off is the weakness of the Mauser-cannon: I can hardly kill two Thunderbolts with the Dora-9 (I know they were tough birds, but that's simply ridiculous..). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In fact Jumo engine was lighter. But since it was long.. the plain tail had to be increased to keep balance (more weight on that) and engine received a cowling armor around it that also increased weight a lot.