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XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:06 AM
Oleg,

I was wondering if the P-38 may be added to the upcoming free add-on since it is completed? Of course this would be a real treat for your American fans.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 09:06 AM
Oleg,

I was wondering if the P-38 may be added to the upcoming free add-on since it is completed? Of course this would be a real treat for your American fans.

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 11:37 AM
provided they don't mind getting shot down alot /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif


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Kamate Kamate Kora
Kamate Kamate Kora
Ah Tenaka Tenaka, whuru whuru
nah ne tiki mai whaki white te ra
ah upane, ah upane, ah upane ka upane
white te rah,

HEE!

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 01:03 PM
Farkitt wrote:
- provided they don't mind getting shot down alot

Now now, the P38 was a deadly fighter in its class. The Germans didn't name it "fork tailed devil" for nothing.

http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



http://freespace.volitionwatch.com/icefire/icefire_tempest.jpg
"Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few." - Winston Churchill

ZG77_Nagual
09-29-2003, 01:29 PM
The P38 - particularly the j-25 on - had alot of possibilities for being flown well - not many mastered it but the potential was there - hence the varying perspectives on it's performance - more than many planes it depended on who was flying it.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/p47janes.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 06:12 PM
VW-IceFire wrote:
-
- Farkitt wrote:
-- provided they don't mind getting shot down alot
-
- Now now, the P38 was a deadly fighter in its class.
- The Germans didn't name it "fork tailed devil" for
- nothing.
-
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


So-called by the often harassed German infantry.
Wow, it's unbelievable how persistent some issues are on the net - even a janes wwII fighters documentary video cited this wrong (But it was showing Bf-109Es as Germany's last onslaught in 1944 as well, *snicker*).

Sure, there were German pilots who respected the P-38 esp. for it's fire power - mostly those that once got downed by them.

Other pilots like Heinz 'Pritzl' B¤r regarded it a sure aerial victory.


But I'm eagerly waiting for it, it's a beaut /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .

muffinstomp

XyZspineZyX
09-29-2003, 06:55 PM
No, it won't be in the free addon. I can almost guarentee this. Sure, it'd be nice if it were, but I don't think it will be.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 06:08 AM
I still think all add-ons should be paid for. Technical problems with what's already been released should be fixed for free and before they release anything new in the way of add-ons or new games.

Luckyboy = senior hydraulic landing gear designer for the P-11

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 09:21 AM
Forked tail evil aside, the top US aces flew them, and flew them well. It was a very capable aircraft, and the most versitile aircraft in the war hands down.

Gib

Farkitt wrote:
- provided they don't mind getting shot down alot /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif
-
-
-
- <img
- src="http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/a
- lbums/userpics/nz-lgflag.jpg">
-
- Kamate Kamate Kora
- Kamate Kamate Kora
- Ah Tenaka Tenaka, whuru whuru
- nah ne tiki mai whaki white te ra
- ah upane, ah upane, ah upane ka upane
- white te rah,
-
- HEE!
-
-
-



No fancy quote or cool photo.... YET

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 10:17 AM
LuckyBoy1 wrote:

- I still think all add-ons should be paid for.
- Technical problems with what's already been released
- should be fixed for free and before they release
- anything new in the way of add-ons or new games.

Yes that would be a sensible modus operandi. I don't expect free content -- I'm ready and willing to pay for it. However, I do expect wrong things to be fixed.

I will add that the first priority, in fixing things, should be to address gameplay issues first, then and only then tweakings.

I hear all sorts of FM/DM modeling complaints, but truth is that most of the wrong behaviour comes from AI inadequacy and and FM simplification for AI planes, not 0.5 m/s difference from RL. If you fly coop or offline, that is.

XyZspineZyX
09-30-2003, 06:49 PM
A few more days till the 5th of October, then we'll have some idea when the P-38 will appear.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:53 AM
What happens on the 5th? Is that the day of the big announcement or something else I missed?


I would have no problem paying for add-ons right from the start but if they choose to add a few planes for free that will work. I will have my money ready for the more extensive add-on in the future.

I don't think that add ons and fixing game issues have to be an either or situation. There is no reason why they can't be doing both. There is an implication that working on new planes means ignoring current problems but I have seen no proof of that. There were no add ons with the first two patches and there are still problems so I don't think adding planes will make much of a difference either way.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 07:01 AM
The 5th is when Oleg reveals in what direction FB and his future sims are going. Or something like that....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 07:39 AM
muffinstomp wrote:

- So-called by the often harassed German infantry.
- Wow, it's unbelievable how persistent some issues
- are on the net - even a janes wwII fighters
- documentary video cited this wrong (But it was
- showing Bf-109Es as Germany's last onslaught in 1944
- as well, *snicker*).
-
- Sure, there were German pilots who respected the
- P-38 esp. for it's fire power - mostly those that
- once got downed by them.
-
- Other pilots like Heinz 'Pritzl' B¤r regarded it a
- sure aerial victory.

Heinz B¤r was an idiot. And you have no idea what your saying. I bet you couldn't tell us 1 thing about the P-38 with out looking it up 1st on the net. lol

The fact is the p-38 J-L were outstanding fighters.
IMO if it was made in Germany it's junk.

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XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 01:26 PM
Copperhead310th wrote:
- muffinstomp wrote:
-
-- So-called by the often harassed German infantry.
-- Wow, it's unbelievable how persistent some issues
-- are on the net - even a janes wwII fighters
-- documentary video cited this wrong (But it was
-- showing Bf-109Es as Germany's last onslaught in 1944
-- as well, *snicker*).
--
-- Sure, there were German pilots who respected the
-- P-38 esp. for it's fire power - mostly those that
-- once got downed by them.
--
-- Other pilots like Heinz 'Pritzl' B¤r regarded it a
-- sure aerial victory.
-
- Heinz B¤r was an idiot. And you have no idea what
- your saying. I bet you couldn't tell us 1 thing
- about the P-38 with out looking it up 1st on the
- net. lol
-
- The fact is the p-38 J-L were outstanding fighters.
- IMO if it was made in Germany it's junk.


lol! You Americans crack me up! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Oh, btw, I thought the Ju-88 was the most versatile aircraft of the war? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif



<center>
---------------------------------------
Fokker G.I
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</center>

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:17 PM
"Heinz B¤r was an idiot. And you have no idea what your saying. I bet you couldn't tell us 1 thing about the P-38 with out looking it up 1st on the net. lol

Speaking of idiots...

"The fact is the p-38 J-L were outstanding fighters.
IMO if it was made in Germany it's junk."

With regards to American aircraft, the ONLY thing that every expert as well as almost every pilot who flew in world war two seems to agree on is that the Mustang was a superlative aircraft. Apart from that opinion ranges wildly. There are totally different opinions on the P-39, P-38, and P-47, to take just a few examples.

The P-38 had a good combat record, especially in the Pacific. However apart from the late models (L onwards?) it was widely regarded as a TERRIBLE DOGFIGHTER. It was big and clumsy, but especially in the Pacific it was near untouchable if FLOWN CORRECTLY i.e. used as a strictly boom and zoom aircraft and starting the fight from an altitude advantage.

However in Europe it did not have the same horsepower advantage that it had against the Japanese aircraft. Doesn't mean it couldn't be used successfully, but it means that a blanket statement like yours is greatly oversimplifying it.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:37 PM
Not only Heinz Bar made the P-38s an easy kill but Klaus Mietusch of JG26 made a quest on shooting down these aircraft.

A thing to point out is that the Amis seem to put in every single quote and get it out fo context. The P-38 was called the "forked tailed devil" by the Ju-52 crews flying over the Med theater to Italy where marauding P-38s ussually stalked the transports.

Though the P-38's campaing over the ETO was not a great one on the onset,they often had engines quit over the Channel and many had to abort missions half way to their intended rendevous point, because of these issues.Where it shined in the med and the pacific it suffered in the ETO due to largely to more advanced and faster fighters. Where it did have a performance advantage was at higher altitudes ,there only the 109 could compete with it, the Fw-190 had little of its performance up there to compete effectively against the Lightnings,though at lower altitudes the Fws that were put on fighter duty didn't have a hard time dispatching them unless of course the allies had numerical advantage.

Later in the ETO they were relegated to A2G, simply they had lost their effectiveness to control the airspace themselves,and by the time they were put in the continent the P-51 and P-47s took over the escort duties, more than often those battles in which the Lightning was involved where it became the victor was because of numerical superiority the allies had over the Luftwaffe in the later stages of the war.

Another thing to point out both of the P-38 aces where PAC pilots they were not ETO pilots. The state at which the IJNAF was at 1943 cannot compare to the early success they had , the sad state of their navy air arm is mostly due to the losses at Midway and the Battle of Coral Sea where the IJNAF lost most of their experienced combat pilots and their respective carriers.

Most of the aircraft Mcguire and Bong encountered in their area of operations were almost obsolete Zeros,Ki-43s and 44s that had lost their edge in the speed spectrum to their allied counterparts. It was very similar to the way the Eastern Front was for Luftwaffe aces but backwards.

PS McGuire got killed by a Japanese ace in an "obsolete" Ki-43.He forgot to drop his Drop Tanks while in battle. Food for thought.

<puts nomex suit on and exits>

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

Message Edited on 10/01/0303:46PM by Glassess

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 04:57 PM
"A thing to point out is that the Amis seem to put in every single quote and get it out fo context. The P-38 was called the "forked tailed devil" by the Ju-52 crews flying over the Med theater to Italy where marauding P-38s ussually stalked the transports."

Exactly. The P-38's long range meant that it excelled at certain jobs, like missions that required long range or endurance (stalking transports, shooting down Yamamoto). For these types of missions it was irreplacable, at least until the P-47 with droptanks and later the P-51C/D appeared. The Bf-109, Spitfire, La-5, or Yak had nowehere near the P-39's range.

However, that doesn't mean it was a SUPERIOR FIGHTER in all situations, or that it will automatically be one in the game. Quite the contrary: the P-39's advantages, like range and high altitude performance, are not the ones that are usually emphazised in simulators and especially not online. The setup there tends to magnify the advantages of planes like the Yak or I-153, while negating many of their disadvantages (like neglible range).

The thing is also to realize that when we are talking about good "fighters" in a gaming context, we are often really talking about good DOGFIGHTERS. It's quite likely that being able to shoot down Rommel's transports or killing Yamamoto was more important to the war effort than being able to outturn Bf-109's. But in a SIM CONTEXT we get a different perspective.

Summary: don't come whining when you can't magically rack up kills in the Lightning. Most likely it will be another P-47 or FW-190.

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 05:57 PM
IMO some of you guys have a little bit too much of a crusade going on here. I doubt that anyone expects much of the P-38, we just want it. Nevermind that fact that it "wasnt a good dogfighter". Seems like a lot of you guys have a big chip on your shoulder when it comes to aircraft. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

ZG77_Nagual
10-01-2003, 06:24 PM
Korolov - Welcome to the ranks of the p-63 whiners http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

At least one famous german ace (Rall maybe?) dunno - he was badly injured in a 262 accident and past away relatively recently - said the p38 was the allied aircraft he respected most. Also - at least one american ace in the eto said the late 38s were better than the mustang - 'at everything'. Another german ace was very nearly downed by one in and extended dogfight while he was flying a dora - it was a stops-out dogfight that went on awhile - the 38 had to disengage due to fuel.

AS I said - it depends on the pilot - By the way the pilot who augered because of his drop tanks did just that - he wasn't shot down - but was manuevering in a dogfight and stalled due to the tanks.

http://pws.chartermi.net/~cmorey/pics/whiner.jpg


Message Edited on 10/01/0301:25PM by ZG77_Nagual

XyZspineZyX
10-01-2003, 06:49 PM
ZG77_Nagual wrote:
- Korolov - Welcome to the ranks of the p-63 whiners
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Thanks! Recently had a love affair with the King Cobra... Ah, the power of those Allison engines! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

I know in the MTO that the german pilots warned everyone not to go headon with a P-38, due to the concentraited armanent. A comment from a 17 victory german pilot said that "Avoid headons. That was suicide. Their firepower was so murderous, that nobody tried that attack more than once."

On the other hand, a USAAF pilot drew up the good points and bad points of the P-38 and noted that "jerry" would generally leave a bandit on the horizon be, but if he saw the unique silhouette of the P-38 he would go after it, "knowing it would not be a waste of time."

So, like every other airplane, it depends on the situation. An airplane like the P-63 could generally be regarded as a good duelist, while a airplane like the P-38 could be regarded as a team player; which goes for the P-51 and P-47 as well.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 12:45 AM
"Germans regarded the P-38 as an easy kill."

Funny, the P-38 had a better than 2:1 kill/loss ratio in the ETO. I suppose the Germans regarded any American plane as poor if it wasn't blowing them out of the sky at a rate of 10:1.

Regards,

SkyChimp

http://members.cox.net/rowlandparks/NAA_logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 12:59 AM
Well,regardless of whether the Lightning was "good" or not,I plan to devote at lot of time mastering it. I think the lethality of someone who is well trained in a P-38,will be unmatched.

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 02:15 AM
~S!

Not to enter the what's better part of the thread, but

Would willingly pay for it.......... with a good sound file, those allisons at full song and synchronized would have to bring a smile to ya!





BPO5_Jinx
C.O. Replacement Air Group
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XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 05:16 AM
I'm looking forward to *ALL* of the twin engine aircraft and the P-63 coming... But the P-63, Me-110 and P-38 are the ones I want most!

Maybe we could get a P-38D-H for 1942? Was quite common in 1942, especially in the MTO.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 08:12 AM
P-38 wasnt a good dogfighter? wrong. the late p38s could OUT TURN A ZERO . try best dogfighter . and it was great at climbing and high altitude

www.fighterjocks.net (http://www.fighterjocks.net) home of the 11 time Champions Team AFJ. 6 Years Flying. Semper Invictus! <img src ="http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/ah_120_1064715546.jpg">

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 09:43 AM
Copperhead310th wrote:

- Heinz B¤r was an idiot.



/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif Bed time. And don't forget your pills.


http://www.geocities.com/dangdenge2004/omdx.txt


|TAO|



Message Edited on 10/02/0308:49AM by TAO-Squadron

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 01:13 PM
Copperhead310th wrote:

- Heinz B¤r was an idiot. And you have no idea what
- your saying. I bet you couldn't tell us 1 thing
- about the P-38 with out looking it up 1st on the
- net. lol
-
- The fact is the p-38 J-L were outstanding fighters.
- IMO if it was made in Germany it's junk.


The first sentence is a classic, priceless. Mr. B¤r is one of the most interesting fighting characters to read about at least if you're able. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


Following WWII boards for years is teaching a lot and often shows a more dialectical character useful for forming a more objective pov - unless you prefer going to your shelf and read it all up in your collection of Mickey Mouse.

Reading forums can teach feeling sorry for someone, see?

Anyway a flyable P-38 would be THAT feature making me buy an add-on hands down. It#s a beautiful bird and a aesthetical masterpiece of its era.


muffinstomp

XyZspineZyX
10-02-2003, 10:11 PM
If we don't get a P-38F at least, I'll have to have the 1943 P-38J model up for use in my 42 MTO missions.... /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 08:01 AM
The P-38 was a good aircraft there is not a doubt in my mind about it and it did have its advantages but most 109 pilots in the ETO didn't have a hard time dispatching them and that can be said if you look at the pilots which preffered the the 38s as their mid day lunch.

It had it's strengths and weaknesses like any other aircraft especially the compression issues it experienced during high speed dives. You have to also remember like I said late war Japanese pilots were not like the seasoned veterans from earlier campaings . The American pilots in their later P-38s could have put their aircraft to the limit of the envelope while the less trained pilots fearing pushing their own kite over the edge fell prey to the Lightnings.

Skychimp, if that were true then we could say the P-38 single handedly wiped out the LW,like the P-51 did? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif . What you wish had happened, didn't happen,sorry,just look at the overall K/D ratio the LW had over the USAAF in the ETO and how the Americans in 1942 and late '43 encountered problems holding air superiority over the continent. It wasn't until Curtis Lemay was put in charge of air ops over Europe that the tide started to turn from early '44 til the summer of that same year where they bled the LW dry,using the "meat grinder principle."

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 03:21 PM
i say p38 you will pay for it. Oleg has to put something that people really want in "pay add on" so people will buy "add on". you perhaps see bf110 there too and PBY.

why do you think they had that "survey" of planes people wanted? they figure out what to give as free and what to ask for money to get. it is all about the money. that is why you not see oleg here much , is it make him more money to put up with all this crap these boards? no, so he doesnt bother. we all have priorities.


with that said , i miss seeing oleg words here. he was key ingredient to make this start as good community.




Non Solum Armis

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 05:35 PM
Glassess wrote:
- The P-38 was a good aircraft there is not a doubt in
- my mind about it and it did have its advantages but
- most 109 pilots in the ETO didn't have a hard time
- dispatching them and that can be said if you look at
- the pilots which preffered the the 38s as their mid
- day lunch.
-
- It had it's strengths and weaknesses like any other
- aircraft especially the compression issues it
- experienced during high speed dives. You have to
- also remember like I said late war Japanese pilots
- were not like the seasoned veterans from earlier
- campaings . The American pilots in their later P-38s
- could have put their aircraft to the limit of the
- envelope while the less trained pilots fearing
- pushing their own kite over the edge fell prey to
- the Lightnings.

I thought I already explained that above. Some LW pilots were scared to death of the P-38, others regarded it as easy money. And to say that the only reason for the success of the P-38 in the pacific is only due to the lack of pilot skill on the japanese side, is plain dumb. They had plenty of encounters with veteran pilots, and more often than not, survived those encounters. Granted, at the end of the war pilot skill for both the japanese and germans was at a all time low, but in 42 and 43 they still had plenty of veterans around.

The P-38 wasn't a super end-all airplane, but records do prove it wasn't just a flying target for the luftwaffe and japanese.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 10:15 PM
Glassess wrote:It had it's strengths and weaknesses like any other
- aircraft especially the compression issues it
- experienced during high speed dives.

Only the early models had problems with compression....

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 10:36 PM
No, all models had problems with compression. The J and L models added dive flaps which helped keep this under control, but the problem was still there.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-03-2003, 10:46 PM
Really? I thought the Fowler flaps fixed that on the later models.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 02:13 AM
Much as I would like to see the p-38 in the free add on it seems we won't be.

Kinda SuX IMHO.

No doubt we will get more axis bombers but no additions to the allied stable of much needed allied multi engine AC.

We've only been waiting for a multi engine allied bomber -other than the TB3 which hardly counts- from day one.

Kinda odd since there are so many AI ones modelled...





WTE Tigger

http://www.users.bigpond.com/lsf_anvil/images/Tigs75.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 03:36 AM
necrobaron wrote:
- Really? I thought the Fowler flaps fixed that on the
- later models...

Neg, the fowler flaps didn't have anything to do with it. The fowler flaps are just a special flap type that moves backwards as well as down when you deploy them; I believe it helps a great deal with manuverability. The dive flaps on the J and L series are what helped take care of the compressability problem, but the issue was still there.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 05:18 AM
Rgr that,Korolov. I learn something new everyday./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

47|FC
http://rangerring.com/wwii/p-47.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 08:35 PM
"The P-38 could out turn a Zero." What!? I'm sorry, but there is no one on this forum more of a fanatic on the Lightning than I am. I've started many P-38 discussions over at simhq, and boy do they get heated! Lol! Even so, as much as I love this machine, there is no way it could out turn a Zero!! That is just incorrect. Even in the last great Lightning, the P-38L, with it's power assisted controls and dive breaks, you would have been insane (and dead, I might add!) if you tried to stay in a turn with a Zeke. About the only fighter built by the U.S. during WW2 that could have done it was the Grumman Bearcat. Unfortunately, it came out too late, and we never got a chance to see what that beautiful little airplane could have done in combat.

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 10:29 PM
Outturning a zero is out of the question; however I'm sure it can easily outstall it. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 10:49 PM
The fowler flaps just helped the 38 maneuver tighter at higher and lower speeds. It helped it maintain the aircraft much more controlable at lower speeds but still it couldn't out turn a zero it sure could out stall it, for having the higher weight compared to the zeke's plus the higher wingloading of the 38 "helped it" stall sooner than the Zeke. In high speed dives ,climbs and zoom climbs it could out perform the Zeke.

Do read what I told you the instances where the P-38 out turned the zeke or where pilots alleged they out turned a zero was mainly due to pilot skill and as others have said the 38 couldn't out turn the more nimble and lighter Zeke the only other plane that came close if I recall correctly was the Hellcat the Bearcat's predecessor it could do a pretty nice instant turn against the Zeke. Just trying to sustain a turn with the zeke would have had the Hellcat by the hellish balls after a couple of turns. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

I agree wholeheartedly some feared and avoided it and some loved to target it no question about that /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Glasses-"I may have four eyes but you only have one wing"

"Kurt Tank is your daddy"

XyZspineZyX
10-04-2003, 11:34 PM
um didnt the zero turn one way amazingly well and not so well the other (relitively)
i think it turned left badly. 50% chance of being wrong /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:36 AM
p1ngu666 wrote:
- um didnt the zero turn one way amazingly well and
- not so well the other (relitively)
- i think it turned left badly. 50% chance of being
- wrong

Almost every single engine fighter had this problem. Unless you had counter rotating props like the P-38, they'll turn/roll better one way than the other.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 06:58 AM
P-38 would be neat...very pretty machine. Pretty heavy machine to be "out turning" much though at 14,000 lb (6,401 kg) empty weight (J). The cold damp environment of the ETO marred the 38's "reputation", it did much better in warmer climates. Also remember that the most widely used variant in the ETO was the F variant. On the P-38..."Hard put to outfly experienced German flyers the P-38 groups weathered a tough period of bomber escort missions from England to North Africa before the Axis was worn down and new aircraft better suited to the conditions were available." I'd still like to see one in FB, it's just too cool a plane to leave out.

XyZspineZyX
10-05-2003, 07:49 PM
Well, now we know we'll see it sometime in January... three months away! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif