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View Full Version : Is the fighting system in ACB good enough for Assassins Creed Revelations?



Turkiye96
05-23-2011, 01:22 AM
ok so i found the AI guard fighting system to be a little old and played out. it was very good but just like assassins creed 2 with them striking more. but for revelations i think then need to make them more different in the way they move and fight a total revamp would be nice. maybe even add more types of guards like spear men on horses. and maybe even some Templar guards ( that are actually hard to beat and like really strong :P) so i just wanted to know what you thought?

gingerninjaDK
05-23-2011, 01:42 AM
it is realy good but there isnt enough guards to make it work

PhiIs1618033
05-23-2011, 04:35 AM
No. The fighting system in AC:B is really bad: way to overpowered. It takes very little skill to stay alive and kill the guards attacking you.
Even if there are five-thousand guards.

gingerninjaDK
05-23-2011, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by PhiIs1618033...:
No. The fighting system in AC:B is really bad: way to overpowered. It takes very little skill to stay alive and kill the guards attacking you.
Even if there are five-thousand guards.

i would love see that 50 bucks on ezio

shobhit7777777
05-23-2011, 06:27 AM
As others have said before. Th fighting system is way too easy. It is really hard to die of combat in ACB. In AC it was challenging, getting into a fight with 7 guards was a bad idea...but when you did, the swordplay was fun, tough and exciting.
AC2 improved it...making us more empowered but still we could overwhelmed...Brotherhood was just plain silly. I could slaughter an Army of Papal Guards.
The combo kills were nice and all but the AI was stone stupid.

Its like they massively increased Player skill and set the AI to "******"

What I'd like to see is something that AC:B just touched upon...Elite guards.
The Papal guards were a good idea IMO, they weren't too easy to kill (but they'd still get owned)
Introduce an elite branch (Templars guards) who are stronger, faster and smarter than the rest. keep the ratio of these guards as 1:5....for every 5 noob guards there is 1 Elite guard.

The longer you spend fighting a large group of guards...the more Templars come in and start fighting you. The idea is to reward players to quickly kill the 5-7 guards pursuing them and then Vanish...otherwise face increasingly tougher opponents and risk failing.
It preserves the fun combat system and also encourages the player to keep a low profile.

If a player really want to go the action way, he/she still can but this time it requires more skill.

@gingerninja

I'll see your 50 and raise it to 75.

P.S

Anyone who says "tl;dr"....I will find you and kill
kthnxbailol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gasketfuse
05-23-2011, 06:28 AM
I liked it a lot more in AC2. It wasn't too hard, but it still felt semi-challenging.

arkadye
05-23-2011, 10:15 AM
Yeah - the combat in AC:B didn't feel challenging. I could just chain a combo together and it didn't matter. (Heck - the challenges had us comboing 20 guards - an impossible fight for Altair.)

Gone was the feeling that I should consider running away - I knew I could take on everyone. I miss that.

I'd like to see the combo system taken out, and tone down counter-attacks so they aren't instant kills. Make us work for our kills - it makes them more rewarding when they come. Make us have to go for the "RUN AWAY!" option. Those chases in AC1 were crazy fun, and I want them back.

PhiIs1618033
05-23-2011, 10:56 AM
In AC1, the counter attacks weren't all-killing. That was a much better system. Check out this page for a full overview:
http://thehiddenblade.com/hit-...ts-and-damage-points (http://thehiddenblade.com/hit-points-and-damage-points)

SAVMATIC
05-23-2011, 11:19 AM
I liked the improvements to combos, but that was it. Otherwise it was bad. Cinematic, but not challenging, so it wears off quick. I cant stress enough that the guard's AI is garbage and needs to be improved, and/or implement difficulty levels. The fact that the game was missing that feel of any kind of enemy you could be scared of, that you would actually have to worry about getting killed, is no good. I think that is really lacking from this game.
The guards line of sight is terrible and their fighting strategy is just garbage lol.

kriegerdesgottes
05-23-2011, 11:37 AM
I do not understand why some of you LIKE things to be difficult. I don't know about you but I like things to be slightly challenging where it takes some skill to get good but not difficult. ACB combat is fine but 4-8 guards at a time just isn't enough. Not to mention the fact that they completely for no reason left brutes totally out of the game with the exception of two who stand wayy in the middle of nowhere. The game's difficulty is fine for me if you want it to be stealthier you can play it stealthier. I like to be able to play and feel like it's not difficult for me, badass ezio, to take down 50 guards. That's why he's a master assassin.

the_atm
05-23-2011, 11:48 AM
we all have to admit, the AI's have improved since AC1. in AC1 they would stand there and attack every like 30 seconds. In ACB sometimes 2 would attack at once... but the fight was just to predictable. boom your in a fight, a guard will grab you, flip him over, a guard will then throw sand in your face... twice. then one will attack, combo him and take every one down. that's it. so if maybe they took the AC combat system where it was harder to kill, and put it in with some smarter AI's it would be perfect.

but ya that killstreak thing is GARBAGE to easy. at least make it so that Enemys can combo YOU

Inorganic9_2
05-23-2011, 12:16 PM
I am of the opinion that the combat in AC:B was pretty good but too overpowered. It seemed a light sword stike could take out someone heavily armoured.

I would much rather see the killstreak setup, but let the guards do a Cesare and be able to block kill streaks. Give every guard in the game the chance to do it. Lower rank of guard, lower chance. Perhaps the lower ranks can block it, but are left with a sloppy/open guard for a few seconds. Higher-ranked guards can block/parry it and retain their composure, so you have to find other ways to wear them down.

Or, of course, you could run!

PhiIs1618033
05-23-2011, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by kriegerdesgotte:
I do not understand why some of you LIKE things to be difficult.
Because when you finally, finally master that one skill and are able to perform it perfectly, you feel amazing. It's great.
Are you aware of the 'shock and awe'-style of combat in AC1? Mastering that takes skill, and it shows. Check this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mRMw24xs2I
Rapidly taking out a group of guards using one of the other weapons is a challenge as well. It's just so satisfying if you can do it properly. Really makes you feel like a badass.

GunnarGunderson
05-23-2011, 01:33 PM
Countering didn't work sometimes when you in the middle of an attack and the hidden blades made every other weapon useless, so I propose this

1:Hidden blades no longer function as melee weapons

2: Throwing Knives can be used as melee weapons, they function similar to the hidden blades but when you block they have a chance to be knocked out of your hands and you can throw them during a combo but it takes time to get more out (similar to crossbow)

3: keep chain attacks but don't make them insta kills, that way it takes time to kill multiple guards and you'll have more incentive to run as reinforcements will arrive quickly

4: make guards do more damage and give Ezio less health

Turkiye96
05-23-2011, 04:07 PM
Ok guys so iv heard a lot about it being too easy and the combo kill making messing it up. but i have to say im with kriegerdesgotte on this one. see you would think Ezio being the best assassin in the world could dispatch enemies that easily and combokills were added so the fights didnt take on forever!and totally loose its fun aspects. i loved the feal of danger in assassins creed 1 but is was also VERY SIMPLISTIC (great for a first run though) so it made more sense for them to have more moves but the fact is that we were all agitated that fights took forever. so im saying we should make a compromise. i suggest we implement a tacktic that rewards assassins on how well they are, making all attacks that quickly kill a bunch of guards very difficult to master but still possible while we have to option of fighting normal.
1. counter attacks with the hidden blade should be VERY DIFFICULT ( only a split second to press to button)
2. combokills should still be in BUT you will have to press it at a specific time ( and maybe you have to tap if faster as you kill more)
3. TOTALLY REMAKE THE GUARDS to offer more unique and different types of attacks while being smart.
4.As you fight for longer more guards around the area should join ( but it should be 10 maximum! or else even if you try to run there wont be much you can do to escape)
5. make elite Templar guards (and make sure there are a bunch somewhere on the map in a group if you feel like having some fun :P )
6. when attacking with any weapon, as you hit the opponent it just deflects off until you can combo him so as you hit him it should lower his health. (also maybe have a separate health and sync. bar)

so yea how does that sound? tell me if i missed anything

iN3krO
05-23-2011, 04:16 PM
I must admit, the guards are too good at acb COMPARED to ac2 but i've voted bad but got good things cuz there are things in those guards that were not in Ac1 and that's why i think they got good things... but Ac1 guards are still the best...


Originally posted by BradKinn:
Countering didn't work sometimes when you in the middle of an attack and the hidden blades made every other weapon useless, so I propose this

1:Hidden blades no longer function as melee weapons

2: Throwing Knives can be used as melee weapons, they function similar to the hidden blades but when you block they have a chance to be knocked out of your hands and you can throw them during a combo but it takes time to get more out (similar to crossbow)

3: keep chain attacks but don't make them insta kills, that way it takes time to kill multiple guards and you'll have more incentive to run as reinforcements will arrive quickly

4: make guards do more damage and give Ezio less health

2 - No

3 - Just make it require some skill to push Square (or X) on the time to get it to work...

CRUDFACE
05-23-2011, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by shobhit7777777:
As others have said before. Th fighting system is way too easy. It is really hard to die of combat in ACB. In AC it was challenging, getting into a fight with 7 guards was a bad idea...but when you did, the swordplay was fun, tough and exciting.
AC2 improved it...making us more empowered but still we could overwhelmed...Brotherhood was just plain silly. I could slaughter an Army of Papal Guards.
The combo kills were nice and all but the AI was stone stupid.

Its like they massively increased Player skill and set the AI to "******"

What I'd like to see is something that AC:B just touched upon...Elite guards.
The Papal guards were a good idea IMO, they weren't too easy to kill (but they'd still get owned)
Introduce an elite branch (Templars guards) who are stronger, faster and smarter than the rest. keep the ratio of these guards as 1:5....for every 5 noob guards there is 1 Elite guard.

The longer you spend fighting a large group of guards...the more Templars come in and start fighting you. The idea is to reward players to quickly kill the 5-7 guards pursuing them and then Vanish...otherwise face increasingly tougher opponents and risk failing.
It preserves the fun combat system and also encourages the player to keep a low profile.

If a player really want to go the action way, he/she still can but this time it requires more skill.

@gingerninja

I'll see your 50 and raise it to 75.

P.S

Anyone who says "tl;dr"....I will find you and kill
kthnxbailol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

That is almost exactly like Ac1, especially the elite guards. I played Ac1 through two days ago and it was WAY harder to finish up fight scenes and actually made me want to act stealthy, fightning only when I had to or REALLY wanted to. Had a lot of fun, and felt more like a person than the walking armory Ezio has become.

Now, almost everyone seems to counter this with the same thing of, "But Ezio is a master Assassin, he should be able to do that!" that's the thing, Ubisoft didn't take into effect of player vs the game. They just thought, "Oh, this is cool" instead of "Oh, this works and balances this stuff out." which is what they should h ave been saying.

Personally, I'd like the guard types from AC2 up with the difficulty of Ac1 guards, along with something like the templars who were actually hard to fight. And oh, seriously, I don't know why, but they made it so that guards had NO move set anymore. Only attack. In Ac1, they could counter, combo and smack me down when they felt like it.

That's what I think anyways.

iN3krO
05-24-2011, 07:42 AM
t260z <3 you :P

thyevi
05-24-2011, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by BradKinn:
3: keep chain attacks but don't make them insta kills, that way it takes time to kill multiple guards and you'll have more incentive to run as reinforcements will arrive quickly

This.

Remember, combo kills was a solution to the problem of slow fights. Now that solution proved to be overpowered. We don't want slow fight (Like AC1) nor overpowered ones (ACB).

So, keep combo kills, but:
- instant kills with easy guards.
- press strike button when metal hits metal on intermediate guards. Like the first combo you learned on AC1. When done correctly, it's a kill. Continue streak afterwards.
- On hard foes: again hit your strike button as soon your swords hits the other one, but this time you need to perform it correctly two times in order to get a combo kill.


Originally posted by t260z:
And oh, seriously, I don't know why, but they made it so that guards had NO move set anymore. Only attack. In Ac1, they could counter, combo and smack me down when they felt like it.

Yes. This made the AC1 fights actually challenging.

Rakudaton
05-24-2011, 02:00 PM
Originally posted by t260z:
And oh, seriously, I don't know why, but they made it so that guards had NO move set anymore. Only attack. In Ac1, they could counter, combo and smack me down when they felt like it.

I'm sorry, what?

In AC1, guards can:

Attack, counter, combo, smack you down, throw you.

In ACB, guards can:

Attack, counter, combo, smack you down, throw you, throw dust in your eyes, dodge, attack two at once.


Obviously this isn't the case for some of the basic guards, but the leader types can do all of AC and more -- and the basics aren't far behind.

DavidPV86
05-24-2011, 02:06 PM
It is funny, buy way to easy, I prefer the AC1 system, in which they could counter you, they should combine both.

endless_vigil
05-24-2011, 02:18 PM
It's bad its good but its bad. The fighting system in AC:II/BH makes you into a super-human fighter as far as I'm concered. I completed both games PS3 and PC and did not die once in combat or even come close.

I don't think they will overhall it much for AC:R but I'm hoping it gets the ground up treatment for AC: III.

CRUDFACE
05-24-2011, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by Rakudaton:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by t260z:
And oh, seriously, I don't know why, but they made it so that guards had NO move set anymore. Only attack. In Ac1, they could counter, combo and smack me down when they felt like it.

I'm sorry, what?

In AC1, guards can:

Attack, counter, combo, smack you down, throw you.

In ACB, guards can:

Attack, counter, combo, smack you down, throw you, throw dust in your eyes, dodge, attack two at once.


Obviously this isn't the case for some of the basic guards, but the leader types can do all of AC and more -- and the basics aren't far behind. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lol, thanks for reminding me. Now, think about how many times they actually get to do that in a fight. Most of the time, I can kill all of them in under half a second. Oh, and the enemies don't upgrade either like they used, they stay the same. By the end of AC1 it took some work to kill them. At the end of ACB, I chained killed them until I only had Cesare to swing at.

crash3
05-24-2011, 03:25 PM
the fighting system without doubt needs to be
more challenging, we need a real sense of danger and we need to alomost feel scared of fighting guards

combat should be like in the SABOTEUR, where the more you fight back , the worse/harder it gets with more troops automatically arriving and you only having limited numbers in your brotherhood. the worst scenario would be where the entire city's garrison is after you, not just alert for you but physically looking for you


combat itself i think is sorted for offensive moves however i do think that during a combat streak, no guards should be killed in one hit

there needs to be more defensive moves to fend off multiple enemies, that way we wont just have guard at a time attacking, we need more parrying moves instead of just holding down R1 to deflect which is so easy to do

so the combat sequence would consist of you fighting defensively initially to fend off multiple guards, then once the guards get tired or something you quickly move in for the kill catching the guards unawares then you can move into a combat streak, but not a killstreak

each guard should be able to counter, dodge, grab and fake attacks. the manner/style in which the guards do these skills depends on how elite they are for example a counter from a basic guard may just involve pushing you away whereas an elite guard may parry you then cut your leg or something

there shouldnt be any obvious archetypes as that makes combat too predictable because we then know what tactics to use against each guard. if we dont know what skills a guard has then we have to fight them more cautiously and test for weaknesses before taking the offensive against them

CRUDFACE
05-24-2011, 03:58 PM
Originally posted by crash3:
the fighting system without doubt needs to be
more challenging, we need a real sense of danger and we need to alomost feel scared of fighting guards

combat should be like in the SABOTEUR, where the more you fight back , the worse/harder it gets with more troops automatically arriving and you only having limited numbers in your brotherhood. the worst scenario would be where the entire city's garrison is after you, not just alert for you but physically looking for you


combat itself i think is sorted for offensive moves however i do think that during a combat streak, no guards should be killed in one hit

there needs to be more defensive moves to fend off multiple enemies, that way we wont just have guard at a time attacking, we need more parrying moves instead of just holding down R1 to deflect which is so easy to do

so the combat sequence would consist of you fighting defensively initially to fend off multiple guards, then once the guards get tired or something you quickly move in for the kill catching the guards unawares then you can move into a combat streak, but not a killstreak

each guard should be able to counter, dodge, grab and fake attacks. the manner/style in which the guards do these skills depends on how elite they are for example a counter from a basic guard may just involve pushing you away whereas an elite guard may parry you then cut your leg or something

there shouldnt be any obvious archetypes as that makes combat too predictable because we then know what tactics to use against each guard. if we dont know what skills a guard has then we have to fight them more cautiously and test for weaknesses before taking the offensive against them


I like the thing about guards being many types and us not being able to point out exactly what kind they are. But when it comes to actually fighting guards, I think differently from whay you've explained.

First off, we can do more than just mash the button. In AC1, we could step in and remove their sword, dodge like in all of them, strafe, counter, and speciel moves as well in AC2 and up. I think they have given us options if anythign when it comes to fighting.

Now, on tiring them out, it sounds like that goes against your other idea of people always coming at me. Because if waves are continuously coming at me in order to attack, then that meants that I can't wait out an attacker, right? I have to be quick, fast and will actually use those god forsaken smoke bombs for once because I have to over doing it for kicks.

How will a combat streak differ from a kill streak? I'll get like pus 5 damage for the WTF all the guards will be going through?

nekov4ego
05-24-2011, 04:03 PM
If they make the AI more aggressive, the first Assassin's Creed game's combat system will be perfect.

"Strike-first-strike-fast" streaks are unrealistic and they make everything so easy. Too much "strike".

knightshad0w
05-24-2011, 04:50 PM
It seems that we can't do normal strong attacks anymore, that's too bad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Mic_92
05-24-2011, 07:53 PM
But once you get the counter attack and counter grab in AC1 you are basically unstoppable too.

Still, I see what you all mean, if you're not careful guards can easily kill you in AC1.
They should be even stronger in Revelations.

crash3
05-25-2011, 01:10 PM
i liked how guards in ACB would throw dirt in your face to stun you but no guards ever actually attacked while i was stunned

guards need a much larger variety of moves/skills in general

they need to be faster, stronger and more unpredictable

they need to be cleverer at detecting you and reading your every move during combat

i was disappointed when fighting borgia captains and cesare as they couldnt die from killstreaks so we were reduced to just kicking and button smashing attacking to do any damage so in effect the really elite opponents wore fought and died in the most boring way with no sense of achievement felt by the player

Foppezao
05-25-2011, 02:02 PM
There's one thing that really needs to be altered, that last cube of health that regenerates, that needs to stop..You can also make ezio's/desmond vision more blurry when you have three or four cubes left instead of only one..
I remember the bonfire vanities DLC with the mission where you have to fight your way up in a sort of patio, it was one of the most exciting missions.I almost died but because that cube keeps regenerating it kept me alive, for some reason that spoiled the fun and the excitement.
When i play virtual combat or just in Rome i think the gameplay is perfect, it bothers me when they grap me, hit me in the back or throw sand, especially with virtual combat since you lose your streak but that's good, you need some form of setback to keep it playable.
Just let them do more damage, the brutes or papal guards, like three of four cubes per hit, and really don't regenerate health or make some form of a Da vince spell or liquer to do that, not default..For the rest the combat system with the killing streaks is ubercool!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
One more thing, more guards to chop!, like in the Kingdom of AC1 or the French troops in ACB, i was actually disappointed when the French where gone after that sequence http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Loganizer25
05-25-2011, 02:32 PM
The fighting system was great, and I imagine that they streak system will be amped up. It just depends on who you're fighting.

crash3
05-26-2011, 10:23 AM
i didnke the cubes for health at all i think there should just be one long bar showing %sync on it and as you progress through the game the bar decreases less when you take damage as you improve your overall sync

then you should visit doctors to get medicine the regenerates health gradually, not immediately to show more realistically that you take time to heal from wounds