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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:04 AM
good day gentlemen,

i flew 190A4 yesterday against Kozhedub's la7. i downed it without any probs. the only problem with this FW is that it seems to be slower than all other variants save for F8. it is more stable than D9 and has bigger punch in her nose.

I DID NOT use boom and zoom. i was turnfighting with him. and i won. have tried it in an A9 before. not much success, that plane seems less stable however faster than A4.

so, what is your experience?

which variant is the best choice as far as flyability is concerned from the 4 cannon group? (not to mention F8-shes got the best FM, i know, but has only 2 cannons, and way too slow)

plébános

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:04 AM
good day gentlemen,

i flew 190A4 yesterday against Kozhedub's la7. i downed it without any probs. the only problem with this FW is that it seems to be slower than all other variants save for F8. it is more stable than D9 and has bigger punch in her nose.

I DID NOT use boom and zoom. i was turnfighting with him. and i won. have tried it in an A9 before. not much success, that plane seems less stable however faster than A4.

so, what is your experience?

which variant is the best choice as far as flyability is concerned from the 4 cannon group? (not to mention F8-shes got the best FM, i know, but has only 2 cannons, and way too slow)

plébános

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:12 AM
I am rediscovering the FW-190's also. If you can keep it from stalling, it really is a very good airplane. I'm only discovering them just yet. I like fast aircraft and don't really care about armament because even a small amount od damage in a particular spot can seriously decreas flight performance of other pilots (online)

There-for, I like the 190A9. I haven't tried the F8 yet.

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2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye
shall be judged: and with what
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measured to you again.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:14 AM
give it a go. try f8. it rules, absobloodylulety.

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:19 AM
After all the 190 whining in ORR i decided to give the 190 another go recently and I am very impressed

In QMB against four ace level Pe8's I always get two of them and sometimes three ... more rarely four.

It is simply impossible for me to do that in an La7 .

Zayets
06-18-2003, 08:19 AM
Maybe this sounds weird , but for me is true. for FW a4,a5,a8 the joyistick seems to be too sensitive. One slight touch and he rolls like crazy or he dive whatever. I didn't want to believe that until I have checkd that with other planes. Yes , appaarently FB's FW turns better , way better thn in IL2. and is doing this without flaps help.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:41 AM
sure it is more effective against bombers. but how about fighters? la7 and yak3 and p39q are all very fast and FWA4 too slow for them, i guess.

only A9 and D9 can match their speed, but they are not agile enough. just BZ planes.

what i want to know, whether any Fw -with or without flaps- can T&B with russian planes?

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:52 AM
Szevasz, te F³kaµrült/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif )

Az A4 nagyon ott van.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:59 AM
szeva, te kolléga! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
hát még szép. egyszer kéne már egyet k¶z¶sen repülni!

any dif you recognize bw A4 and A5? (other than speed) /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif


plébános



"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 12:48 PM
is it only the A4 or A5 is a good plane for turning as well?

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:02 PM
Plebanos wrote:
- is it only the A4 or A5 is a good plane for turning
- as well?
-
A5 is heavier


S!

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:13 PM
Seems to me like the A4 is a tad more agile than the A5. Other than that they're very similar.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:17 PM
I noticed that prop-pitch dosnt work the same as with the 109 and d9,is that correct or is that something that will be changed with the patch?I would like it if the gear shifting was more aggressive.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:17 PM
hey, father of all würgerwhiners!

what is "tad more agile"?

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 01:43 PM
Plebanos, IMHO it's slightly more maneuverable. But it's just my impression and I don't have any data to back it up. The difference is so marginal it doesn't have any effects on tactics anyhow.

I prefer the A5 if given a choice between the two models. Speed is life you know. But the A4 is a comparably better figter in 42 than the A5 is in 43.

My two cents.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 03:25 PM
- good day gentlemen,

- i flew 190A4 yesterday against Kozhedub's la7. i downed
- it without any probs.

That's great Plebanos, please show us the track, I'm sure there are a lot of ppl who would like to see that one.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 04:00 PM
Airborn_ wrote:
-- good day gentlemen,
-
-- i flew 190A4 yesterday against Kozhedub's la7. i downed
-- it without any probs.
-
- That's great Plebanos, please show us the track, I'm
- sure there are a lot of ppl who would like to see
- that one.
I would like to see that too!!! I can't even return from a mission if the pilots of AI are any more than average. The FM for the FW-190 sucks. Its too bad that such a fine planes is castrated like this. Hope the patch fixes it.

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 04:34 PM
Interesting,

Awhile ago, I posted a similar observation--that I had rediscovered the FW190 A-5 in FB for being a more "all around" aircraft than the later 190 variants. Good to hear that it's not just me /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

The A-5 is my choice (not as fast as the later FWs, but faster than the A-4, and just about as nimble--still got the 4 cannons, too).

Salute!

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 04:38 PM
Was the AI on ace? They turn fight better than anything else. I too would like to see a track. Were you 1vs1, or did you sneak up on him?

Your talking about one of the best turn fighters, against one of the worse. Slightly hard to swallow.

Da Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 07:42 PM
I tried it against Ace,I had 25% fuel he had 50%.I finally got him after about 4 tries,I damaged him in the initial headon and kept the initiative.I got him again when he avoided my headon fire and he manuvered to my advantage.He got me a few times after that and I would say other than the headon a early FW is dead meat for a '43 and later La.

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 08:18 PM
Hi

I read this post with interest to see the various views and experiences with the FW varients.

I have a good deal of time in the A4/A5 and F8, and I agree with Demolisher in that the A4 has slightly less power than the A5 and this affects the A4's overall performance.

Plebanos, I don't say the AI Ace level is easy, but it's possible to take on more than one Ace without any advantages or sneaking up, and still and win. I don't consider this as a measure of skill when matched against a competent human pilot online, but rather that the AI is of limited inteligence.

In my own experiences and IMHO /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif , I think the key to some good FW's tactics has to be the roll rate, but this is usually overshadowed by Speed, Alt and Energy considerations.
The La7 can turn fast it is true .. but the FW can change direction more quickly with it's faster roll rate...and so on and so on!

I think perhaps the FW is rated as an underdog lately with all the Wurgerwhiner posts, but which ever way the FM goes (good or bad), I will continue to place my butt in the FW /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Greetings from Ron of

The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

http://il2.wunderlin.net

come and see !

Message Edited on 06/18/0308:20PM by BBB_Ron

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 09:05 PM
BBB_Ron

I have no doubt the Fw190 can beat the La7/Yak3. I've done it many times. I just never did it in a true turn fight. So, i'd be interested in seeing it done.

btw To anybody..A headon is not considered a turn fight to me.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>

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XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:12 PM
Hi Buzz U,

I have attempted to make 2 offline tracks using AI QMB..they AI are bad actors /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif but it worked! they are no demonstration track and were made as they occured with the AI doing there own thing.

1. Track is all settings fully realistic.
1 x FW A4 Vs 2 x La7 Ace at 1000m, the perverbial head on pass with nil result then DF begins time 5:17

2. Track Same as above but with cockpit off time 5:08.

er...do you have an addy of place I can post them on ?



Greetings from Ron of

The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

http://il2.wunderlin.net

come and see !

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:22 PM
Ron,

I'd prefer it just 1vs1. Sometimes you can nail a wingman pretty easy. Just having one, and he has his mind on getting you. I'll PM you my mail addy when you get a track. Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying you didn't do it. It's just i've had no luck doing it, and would like to see it done. I'm sure I can learn from it. Even though i've tried to stop turn fighting completely.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>

http://www.huntress.com/images/MichaelHaberlin.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-18-2003, 11:46 PM
Running on the ASRG is a neat scenario map that invariably pits 190A4 and G2 vs Yak9s, P39s, LAGG and LA5s.

After some unhappy T&B moments in the G2, I found to my delight that the A4 could clean up the P39s and Yaks, was equal to the LAGGs and only slightly in trouble against the LA5.

The main thing was that I only engaged when I had 400km+ and 1000m. I found I could get a headon shot then either extend or pick another target on the same vector. Unloading the A4 at SL I could get 520kph very quickly and this seemed plenty to disengage from most bandits.

And tough, P39 MG fire? hah!

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 03:26 AM
I find I cannot fight with any FW. It climbs like a dog and can't turn. Once the russian makes a pass, he gets on my six and Im dead. all the firepower of the FW is to no avial since they can't fire backwards. Any help on tactics would be appreciated.

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 03:33 AM
Mike,

Don't even think of doing any kind of horizontal turn. Stay fast, and stay high. Dive down, take a fst shot, and climb for all your worth. PM me your mail addy, and i'll send a track to you. 190 vs Yak3 Two passes..dead Yak../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:03 AM
Grazie buzz! Ill try it offline first!!

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Tende!
Scagua!

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 04:35 AM
Let me send you the track. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Da Buzz
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Only the spirit of attack, born in a brave heart, will bring success to any fighter aircraft, no matter how highly developed it may be.... Adolf Galland
<center>

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XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 07:43 AM
hi all, i have been reading your replies with interest.
they are exciting and thought provoking at the same time.
yesterday i spent at least 3 hours figuring out which fw variant is the best.
to sum it up:

A4-agile, strong weaponry, not so fast
A5-less agile than A4, same weaponry, faster than A4
A8-less agile than A4, stronger weaponry, faster
A9-worst of the A series but the fastest and has strong weaponry
F8-the nicest handling focke wulf, but a bit slow. and has only two cannons. i would be VERY happy to have an A8 with the FM of the F8.

D9-fastest, with proper trimming agile enough. medium weaponry, but climbs like a rocket. lack of making snapshots. i hesitate between d-9 and a-4. i would take the f8 but she is too slow and cannot climb.

tagcs@yahoo.com

send me email if you wish to get the tracks

cheers

plébános



"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:17 AM
it may be my imagination ... or a side effect of the agility (you jink a lot when tracking a heavy) but it always seems to me the A4 takes less damage from bomber gunners than the A5

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 08:30 AM
as i mostly fly in DF servers, i dont meet bombers that often. so i cannot compare the durability of A4 with A5.

i still dunno though which version is the best for the low level, aquariumlike dogfights, peppered with some BZ moves?

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 05:59 PM
Heh!

I lose track of who is sending who what and when, and what its supposed to be about!.

Np Buzz, After the patch may be a whole new game with different FM to re-learn /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif .





Greetings from Ron of

The Butcher Bird Brotherhood

http://il2.wunderlin.net

come and see !

XyZspineZyX
06-19-2003, 06:09 PM
Ron,

I hope so, because it's no good the way it is.

I dream of a sim that nobody says any plane is over/undermodeled. I believe it's just a dream though.

Da Buzz
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ZG77_Nagual
06-19-2003, 06:20 PM
I definitely think the a5 is best for the 'aquarium style' (nice term by the way) dogfights. Basically it's faster and just about as agile.

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 06:41 AM
hi, last night i made a mission against kozhedub la7, with 25% fuel in me and him.

i flew a dora 9, early.
it superbly demonstrates the capabilities of the plane - and at the same time my poor gunnery skills at snapshots.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif


plébános

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 07:52 AM
Normaly I fly the A9 I belive speed & altitude are life and you must have bolth before ingadging enemy Bandits especialy if you expect to get home in one piece

If you want too turn fight you might as well stop flying the FolkerWolf right now turning is a Sin & a Crime in the FW its best too use a hammer turn or a stall type of thingy I do dont have a name for it /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

If an evil La or Yak3 does manage to get yer six then realy your only options are to try & run & doge his gunz or fake a run & then do some fast sizzors & try to force the overshoot wich doesnot work if they are even remotley good thell just climb on you & keep the advantage if they dont fly so well then the sizzors can be very effective

S all the FW Jocks !!!

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 08:05 AM
hey, i do know FWs are not to be used for TB /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
but they are fast, and they are the coolest looking german planes. i like them a lot more then Messerschmitts. everyone is lfying MEs. me not. just for the sake of challenge.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

S! to all FW buffs!

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 12:12 PM
up

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 01:13 PM
whos to say u cant tand b with them, they have great roll and easly shake anything off their six, a human in a la series or a yak will often try and evade like a 190 rolling left and right when all they need to do is turn, they are easy to stick with. The a4 and a5 series are good for turn fighting it i found laggs migs and back in il2 p39s easy prey.

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XyZspineZyX
06-20-2003, 05:04 PM
- A9-worst of the A series but the fastest and has
- strong weaponry

The A-9 is a freakin monster. You obviously aren't flying these things correctly at all, if you can't make up your mind on whether the A-4 is the best and you think the A-9 is the worst /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 08:53 AM
up again

"Der ganze Revierkreis muss total schwarz sein"

Erich Hartmann

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 12:29 PM
i tried them all, and i must say that a9 is the one for me.
boy what a plane/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif
it turns very well in the vertical, has high speed and climb potential and lots of firepower.ideal to BnZ.a4 and a5 are more agile but they loose on speed and climb performance.
one can defenitly fight and win from a yak3 in that a9 if you dont loose your nerves/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

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