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View Full Version : Jagdgruppe 101 'Red Pumas'



Schwarz.13
04-14-2008, 04:17 PM
I'd like to know more about this Hungarian 109 unit but i can't seem to find anything on the net!

Can anyone help?

berg417448
04-14-2008, 04:25 PM
Scroll through the pages...maybe there is something useful to you here?:

http://books.google.com/books?id=EmZ0KGXl7LsC&pg=PA92&l...GGJ_Kg&hl=en#PPA5,M1 (http://books.google.com/books?id=EmZ0KGXl7LsC&pg=PA92&lpg=PA92&dq=101+red+pumas&source=web&ots=zv-B1nHYz3&sig=E5Ndj1PhLvxCojMUSjjJ5GGJ_Kg&hl=en#PPA5,M1)

Kurfurst__
04-15-2008, 01:05 AM
The unit was created from a group a crack ex-EF pilots, and squadrons with the intent of defend Hungarian airspace from the US bomber attacks that were expected in 1944, after the German semi-occupation of the country in March 1944.

Initially it was of Gruppe/Wing sized unit, the 101. Honi VadászrepülĹ‘ Osztály (~101st Home Fighter Wing) later it was increased into a size of an ezred, or ~regiment. It retreated with German troops into Austria in 1945, and surrendered there to the Americans.

After the war, the pilots were recruited into the new 'Red' People`s Air Force, and were used to train the new cadre on Yaks etc. A few years later, in the early 50s, after a set of staged trials most of them were imprisioned with long term sentences as politicals (Dark Blue World anyone...? ), but a few years later, when a new, 'softer' commie leadership came around, they were released. However, for most of their lives they were branded as 'unstrustworthy', and all careeer possibilities were cut from them.. around the 1980s, one of the veterans, the now passed away Lt. TOBAK Tibor begun writing a series of books about Hungarian figther pilots and aces, the best of these being the 'Pumák Földön-Égen', or roughly 'Pumas in the Air and on the Ground'. Its his life story, basically, and I dare to say it is the best written pilot memoires I have ever read, somewhat akin to Clostermann`s book. It was not published in English, but its available in French in a good translation, 'Les Pumas Rouge', 'The Red Pumas' or something like that.

Alternatively, one might try to get George PUNKA`s (Punka Gyögy) 'The Messer'. Its a comprehensive story of all Hungarian Me 109 units. Other Punka books published by Osprey, Squadron Signal may be a good alternative.

The unit emblem : http://www.honvedelem.hu/files/9/3495/7mh_p.jpg

In the 1990s, after the reform of the armed forced, several of the old Squadron names and emblems were renewed and are used today by MiG 29 and now Saab Gripen units.

http://www.mascher.hu/mig29ben.jpg http://www.hhrf.org/karpatiigazszo/050526/puma01.jpg

Check the unit emblem.

Metatron_123
04-15-2008, 04:32 AM
Great stuff! I like the way they pay homage to their history.

Unlike in Greece, where apparently the modern fighter units have no link with their WW2 counterparts, unfortunately.

csThor
04-15-2008, 04:55 AM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Unlike in Greece, where apparently the modern fighter units have no link with their WW2 counterparts, unfortunately.

Same as in Germany, but I guess the circumstances are somewhat different. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Didn't know HAF had Gripen, but then I'm not a fan of the modern "vacuum cleaners" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Schwarz.13
04-15-2008, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by csThor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Unlike in Greece, where apparently the modern fighter units have no link with their WW2 counterparts, unfortunately.

Same as in Germany, but I guess the circumstances are somewhat different. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I thought there was a German squadron named 'Mölders' http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

csThor
04-15-2008, 06:43 AM
No more. The name was taken away by the parliament last year under ... uhm ... strange circumstances.

In the late 90s the government passed a law which prohibited the use of traditional names which had some relation to the "Legion Condor" of the Spanish Civil War of any kind. Mölders was the first and certainly most prominent victim of this new policy (pushed through the parliament in times of the summer hole upon a request of the political left). However parts of the official explanation caused some considerable unrest especially among military historians as well as former Bundeswehr officers, many of which served in WW2. Some parts were ... well I read excerpts and they sounded rather strange, as if the writer was so intent on finding reasons that he was reaching for every straw he could find, even the most idiotic ones. It's obviously part of a silent cleansing of all WW2-related items. Some barrack names have already been changed or are in the process of being "reviewed" and the likes. Apparently it applies to more fields as historians have reported "unfriendly behavior" by archive personnel, even those they'd known for years (on orders from above). Looks like the political establishment wants to sweep some things under the carpet.

Oh well ... that's modern Germany for you. Political correctness rules ... along with money. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Schwarz.13
04-24-2008, 08:07 PM
*bump*

At the moment i'm reading 'The Luftwaffe Over Germany' by Donald Caldwell and just read this (page 214) about the Fifteenth AF raid on Budapest , July 2 1944:

<span class="ev_code_yellow">'The Hungarian Air Force scrambled all three of its fighter squadrons to defend its capital city. They were led by their Gruppenkommandeur, Major Aladár Heppes, the "Old Puma". They too missed the battle group rendezvous and flew an independent mission. They claimed seven bombers, which match no known losses but were possibly B-24s which had been shot from formation by I/JG302, and were then bounced by Mustangs from the Eighth Air Force's 4th Fighter Group, which was flying a sweep from Italy. Dogfights were the Hungarians' preferred mode of fighting, and they showed much more skill than the Americans expected. The Pumas lost 3 KIA, 1 WIA, and four Bf109Gs in the battle. The Americans returned to Foggia less four P-51s; two more made it back with severe damage and seriously wounded pilots. Two of the missing pilots were captured, while two were killed. One of the latter was Captain Ralph Hofer, a well-known ace who proved to be the highest-scoring Eighth Air Force pilot killed in aerial combat during the entire war. As one Fifteenth Air Force Mustang pilot gleefully noted in an interview, the cocky ex-Eagle Squadron boys of the 4th Group had got the "living sh1t" kicked out of them.'</span>

Luke5skywalker4
04-24-2008, 09:23 PM
Originally posted by csThor:
No more. The name was taken away by the parliament last year under ... uhm ... strange circumstances.

In the late 90s the government passed a law which prohibited the use of traditional names which had some relation to the "Legion Condor" of the Spanish Civil War of any kind. Mölders was the first and certainly most prominent victim of this new policy (pushed through the parliament in times of the summer hole upon a request of the political left). However parts of the official explanation caused some considerable unrest especially among military historians as well as former Bundeswehr officers, many of which served in WW2. Some parts were ... well I read excerpts and they sounded rather strange, as if the writer was so intent on finding reasons that he was reaching for every straw he could find, even the most idiotic ones. It's obviously part of a silent cleansing of all WW2-related items. Some barrack names have already been changed or are in the process of being "reviewed" and the likes. Apparently it applies to more fields as historians have reported "unfriendly behavior" by archive personnel, even those they'd known for years (on orders from above). Looks like the political establishment wants to sweep some things under the carpet.

Oh well ... that's modern Germany for you. Political correctness rules ... along with money. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Really quite sad seeing as Germany had many great pilots and Aces and their Airforce can't even pay homage in remembrance. I suppose they don't even care that many of the Top Pilots were involved in the "Fighter Pilot's Revolt."

csThor
04-24-2008, 11:24 PM
The political establishment doesn't want any traditional aspect of the Wehrmacht carried on by the Bundeswehr. Officially all traditions are rooted in the time before the 3rd Reich, even though that's obviously mere window-dressing. Back in the sixties, seventies or eighties units could take over traditional signs of ex-Wehrmacht units (e.g. JaboG 134 took over the "Green Heart" of JG 54) because the politicians had lived in times of war and many high-ranking officers were veterans of WW2, but nowadays the politicians were born post-war. The movement of 1968 brought a drastic distance between the modern Germany and the time of national socialism. They - the politicians - want nothing to do with it, want nothing to carry on from these dark times - if they care about it at all (which is only when they fear bad press).

Schwarz.13
04-25-2008, 06:33 AM
Please stay ON-topic, thanks.

Just found some nice pics:

http://www.pumaszallas.hu/puma-kepgaleria/pumak.jpg
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/puma-kepgaleria/pumafej1.jpg
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/puma-kepgaleria/Tobak.jpg
http://www.pumaszallas.hu/puma-tortenelem/images/Bf109_hun.jpg