PDA

View Full Version : On this day today......



Toten_Waffe
08-06-2009, 06:08 AM
In 1945............The Enola Gay dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima.

Gammelpreusse
08-06-2009, 06:22 AM
R.I.P. to the fallen.

AndyJWest
08-06-2009, 06:42 AM
Never Again

BSS_CUDA
08-06-2009, 06:44 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Never Again

Not Likely

Scolar
08-06-2009, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Never Again

Not Likely </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty likely not to happen again. MAD and all

AndyJWest
08-06-2009, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Never Again

Not Likely </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty likely not to happen again. MAD and all </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to believe you are right, but consider how close it got during the Cuban missile crisis. The doctrine of safety through Mutually Assured Destruction assumes that everyone involved behaves rationally, and given recent history, this seems implausible. Like it or not, the only way to ensure nuclear weapons never get used is by scrapping them.

Gammelpreusse
08-06-2009, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Scolar:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BSS_CUDA:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by AndyJWest:
Never Again

Not Likely </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pretty likely not to happen again. MAD and all </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd like to believe you are right, but consider how close it got during the Cuban missile crisis. The doctrine of safety through Mutually Assured Destruction assumes that everyone involved behaves rationally, and given recent history, this seems implausible. Like it or not, the only way to ensure nuclear weapons never get used is by scrapping them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Also, nuclear weapons are spreading. Japan openly thinks about aquiring nuclear weapons (US weaker, N.Korea and China on the rise, bigger threats) Iran wants the bomb, should they obtain it other countries in the region will make efforts as well. Brazil obviously is working on the bomb and the circle goes on. If these countries get the bomb, others feeling threatend will try to get their hands on their own. As long as the US, France, Russia, Britain, Israel won't give up their own bombs, this will continue and spread until it's out of control, if it isnt already.

DKoor
08-06-2009, 09:04 AM
If they want the bomb, give them the bomb.

It is time for human race to decrease its number a bit. There is far too many of us now.

Jabout
08-06-2009, 09:09 AM
It is time for human race to decrease its number a bit. There is far too many of us now.
______________________________________________

You can go first, if you like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Gammelpreusse
08-06-2009, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by Jabout:
It is time for human race to decrease its number a bit. There is far too many of us now.
______________________________________________

You can go first, if you like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

+1

Always good to see people wanting to go ahead with a good example. Maybe we don't even need the bomb. Go DKoor! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Jure_502
08-06-2009, 09:27 AM
R.I.P all the fallen.

Shameless crime!

Toten_Waffe
08-06-2009, 09:42 AM
shameless crime.....hmmm probably how it is viewed in hindsight by some and those on the recieving end at the time.

However for those fighting the war against Japan and wanting to wrap up a world war that had dragged on for six years Im sure that some felt is was a justified act and not an outright war crime.

DKoor
08-06-2009, 09:56 AM
Originally posted by Gammelpreusse:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jabout:
It is time for human race to decrease its number a bit. There is far too many of us now.
______________________________________________

You can go first, if you like http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

+1

Always good to see people wanting to go ahead with a good example. Maybe we don't even need the bomb. Go DKoor! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks. But that's one... not enough.
How about 2-3 billions... and then we can talk whether that is enough or perhaps even push forward a bit http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif .
Don't worry guys we will come to that point sooner or later.

People are far too unreasonable for any kind of alternative outcome.

vrait
08-06-2009, 09:57 AM
Yea I'm sure the Attack on pearl habor wasn't shameless crime huh? (war had not been declared, because the declaration reached the gov. way after the attack.) Not to mention other atrocities.

horseback
08-06-2009, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by Jure_502:
R.I.P all the fallen.

Shameless crime! Given that I have three uncles who were all likely members of the invasion force slated for the Japanese Home islands (which was expected to suffer ONE MILLION casualties), I tend to disagree.

The Japanese initiated hostilities with the US and the Commonwealth because they tried to economically restrain the Empire's grabs for Chinese territory and resources. The Japanese then pursued a systematically barbaric policy towards those who fell into their hands, even after it became obvious that they were losing on all fronts.

It's a little tough for me and anyone acquainted with people who survived under Japanese rule to feel all that sorry for the bombing of Hiroshima or Nagasaki.

If the Japanese resisted in a manner comparable to that on Saipan or Okinawa, had we been forced to invade (with the Soviets piling on from the north), it is entirely conceivable that the Japanese as a living viable nation may have ceased to exist.

The atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki were believed at the time to be the best means of convincing the Japanese that their cause was hopeless and allow them to surrender with some form of dignity; I've seen little to contradict that view beyond the usual Western self flagulation over the 'morality' of using the A-Bomb instead of more conventional and less efficient means to slaughter our enemies.

cheers

horseback

SILVERFISH1992
08-06-2009, 10:18 AM
Das zu schlecht.

megalopsuche
08-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Are we still pretending that war is fought by rules? The fact is, when things get nasty enough, when enough blood is spilled, anything goes. Truman made the right decision because there can be no doubt that the bomb ended the war and prevented even more bloodshed.

AndyJWest
08-06-2009, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by vrait:
Yea I'm sure the Attack on pearl habor wasn't shameless crime huh? (war had not been declared, because the declaration reached the gov. way after the attack.) Not to mention other atrocities.

Has anyone in any of the posts on this topic suggested that the attack on Pearl Harbour wasn't a criminal act? If the use of nuclear weapons can be justified by war crimes and/or crimes against humanity, I don't think that there are many parts of the developed world that wouldn't soon be reduced to a pile of radioactive ash...

Clicky Clicky, watch the Hippy... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OnWAOqZj58)

RPMcMurphy
08-06-2009, 10:41 AM
Originally posted by AndyJWest:


I'd like to believe you are right, but consider how close it got during the Cuban missile crisis. The doctrine of safety through Mutually Assured Destruction assumes that everyone involved behaves rationally, and given recent history, this seems implausible. Like it or not, the only way to ensure nuclear weapons never get used is by scrapping them.

Scraping them won't ensure they never get used because an invention never goes away.

horseback
08-06-2009, 10:48 AM
A little perspective please; as a perceptive sort once pointed out, 'You don't know what you don't know.'

No one had a clear idea of the long term effects of the use of atomic weapons in 1945, and given the tone of the times, as long as their use didn't damage the users directly, I can't see any of the major players saying to themselves "Wait a minute. This weapon is clearly immoral. Let's just stick with firebombing."

How was Harry Truman to know that nuclear devices would become so gauche and that by using them he would be made into the Bad Guy forty or fifty years later?

cheers

horseback

X32Wright
08-06-2009, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by Jure_502:

R.I.P all the fallen.

Shameless crime!


Tell this to the thousands of infants that were tossed in the air and bayoneted by the Japanese during their 4 year occupation of the Philippines as well as the 'rape of Nanking'. Tell that to the thousands of Australian and New Zealand POW's who died building the Bridge of River Kwai' (aka Burma railway), tell that to the thousands who died on the 'Bataan March'. The list goes on and on on how brutal and inhumane the Japanese were. They also practiced cannibalism on Allied (pilot) prisoners. And what about the 'comfort women' who were abducted and forced to be sex slaves?.

My grandfather was stationed in Cavite Naval Yard and saw the worse in the Japanese. I have otehr stories I can tell you. One thing I am sure of is they were entitled to a few more A-bombs because of 'seishen' and the 'bushido code'. Thank goodness we had Truman.

TS_Sancho
08-06-2009, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by Jure_502:
R.I.P all the fallen.

Shameless crime!

Nanking, Singapore, Bataan.....

Imperial Japanese aggression with absolutley no regard for human decency or morality.

Japan was not a victim, war is a vulgar act and Japan brought destruction upon themselves.

Horseback's comment sums it up quite nicely, shameless crime indeed.

Boosher
08-06-2009, 11:33 AM
Well... this thread got derailed.

Jure_502
08-06-2009, 11:37 AM
Thanks for comments, I'm out.

Urufu_Shinjiro
08-06-2009, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by Boosher:
Well... this thread got derailed.

Sure did.