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ytareh
11-01-2009, 01:04 PM
Ok so we all love using that baby but whats with the dreadful rotating thick framed 'cupola'(?)?Is there a knack Im not getting to using it or does everybody else have loads of blind spots too ?

RSS-Martin
11-01-2009, 01:33 PM
That is correct for the early Betties, unfortunatly except for the G4M2 which carries the Ohka we have no other versions of this bomber in the game, as there where versions where the rear gunner had a better view.
Here the version as in the game:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/G4M-50s.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/g4m-1.jpg
Here a version we do not have:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/G4M-49.jpg

Yes there are blindspots, but in flight a plane is never long in one of them, with a bit of practice even in the blind spots hits can be made.

general_kalle
11-01-2009, 05:45 PM
i doubt any bombers doesnt have blind spots.
maybe except the B29. the B17 had a blind spot on the 4:30 - 7:30 level positions. too far out for the rear gunner but too far behind for waist gunners.
however if the fighter got low or high top turret or ball gunner had a shot.

Metatron_123
11-01-2009, 07:05 PM
Please. Blind spots and all, with a 20mm gun in the tail and no g-forces modeled you can blast incoming fighters into oblivion. How much better can it be? Do you want rear firing nuclear missiles?

The Betty was supposed to be relatively easy to shoot down.

mortoma
11-01-2009, 09:24 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Please. Blind spots and all, with a 20mm gun in the tail and no g-forces modeled you can blast incoming fighters into oblivion. How much better can it be? Do you want rear firing nuclear missiles?

The Betty was supposed to be relatively easy to shoot down. You can blast fighters to oblivion with any of the defensive guns in any of the bombers in the game. That 20mm is just overkill is all.

I've been flying a FMB mission I made using mods 1.2 with Spit Mk. 1s, Hurris and Bf-109E1s escorting HE-111s. Sometimes I change to the 111s and get in a bomber gunner position. I regularly set both Hurris and Spits ablaze with just the 111s pea shooters. Only trouble is, the only good chance you get to set them ablaze is when they are coming at you shooting. And if you don't get PK'd your bomber ends up damaged enough that you will never get home anyway. So being a German gunner in a BoB scenario is bittersweet because of that. The only time I get home is when I don't get attacked so therefore I don't get a kill as a gunner. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif

Metatron_123
11-01-2009, 09:37 PM
Yeah well in the Betty you can blast them and go home too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

RSS-Martin
11-01-2009, 09:40 PM
Well that is the specialty of the G4M bombers their 20mm rear canon, their where versions of the G4M2 where all defencive guns where 20mm cannons so donīt complain.
Most fighters make the mistake of coming directly from a flat 6 position, and that is no real hard one for a gunner. I have done that a few times, the level stabelizer on, and then took up the rear gunner position. I have downed almost every type of allied fighter, as a gunner, you donīt need the super AI to do that.

If you pick a foolish attack approach, even the best fighter is of no use against the Betty.

When I look at my stats on one server, my kills with the Betty can almost keep up with the best fighter pilots.

So donīt just choose the easy way of pointing fingers at the bomber, maybe also think about how the fighters are flying.

RSS-Martin
11-01-2009, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
Yeah well in the Betty you can blast them and go home too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/compsmash.gif

That depends on the pilot, and how badly damaged the plane is. Flying with one engine over a long strech is a bit tricky. If you are found by a second fighter you are a sitting duck. Also when the Betty starts smoking heavier she catches fire fairly soon.

What you wrote you can aply to most bombers.
Take a A20 and shoot of its engine, it can fly across the map and back again.
Try that with a Ju 88 and at the latest 2min after the engine is lost your wing will start to burn. Then you only have seconds to bail before the fuel tank explodes.

The Betty is not über, she is tough yes but expiranced pilots do bring her down easy. Just a matter of how the attack is flown.

mortoma
11-01-2009, 09:57 PM
I can attack an AI Betty in any plane, even a Buffalo, and kill it if it's AI gunners in it. A P-40 is tricky though because a mean look will stop it's engine cold, let alone a MG or cannon bullet/shell. You have to be really careful in a P-40. A P-39 is not much better but it can be done.

RSS-Martin
11-02-2009, 04:04 AM
Well the only planes I have found to be harder to bring down in a Betty where the late P38 and the F4Us when they are armed with missels, as you have then no chance with a Betty.
If they have no rockets, and do the usual thing many many online pilots do it is no problem shooting them down.
In most chases it is just a bad approach by the fighter pilot giving the gunners plenty of oportunities to shoot the fighter.

Wildnoob
11-02-2009, 08:45 AM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
Most fighters make the mistake of coming directly from a flat 6 position, and that is no real hard one for a gunner.

+ 100

I think that in most servers the majority of pilot's do this all the time. At least I found very rare not be attacked from dead 6 in a Betty online.

Metatron_123
11-02-2009, 09:22 AM
I think this gun camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqzZG8NzwA&feature=related) clip shows some good tactics... Although most attacks are from roughly six o' clock they are always hit and run affairs, no one stays for ages until he sees the enemy aircraft destroyed. Lots of zooming up and down and weaving from left to right and generally don't stick around.

DuxCorvan
11-02-2009, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
I think this gun camera (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KfqzZG8NzwA&feature=related) clip shows some good tactics... Although most attacks are from roughly six o' clock they are always hit and run affairs, no one stays for ages until he sees the enemy aircraft destroyed. Lots of zooming up and down and weaving from left to right and generally don't stick around.

That won't save you from one-shot-one-kill ace AI gunners.

http://jovenes.es/wp-content/uploads/2008/06/robocop_02.jpg

BillSwagger
11-02-2009, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by RSS-Martin:
That is correct for the early Betties, unfortunatly except for the G4M2 which carries the Ohka we have no other versions of this bomber in the game, as there where versions where the rear gunner had a better view.
Here the version as in the game:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/G4M-50s.jpg
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/g4m-1.jpg
Here a version we do not have:
http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m290/RSS-Martin/Flugzeuge/G4M-49.jpg

Yes there are blindspots, but in flight a plane is never long in one of them, with a bit of practice even in the blind spots hits can be made.


i'm trying to see what the differences are. Can you tell me which versions these are, and how they differ. From this pic it doesn't appear there would be any improvements in the blind spots, but i could be wrong.


Bill

RSS-Martin
11-02-2009, 09:33 PM
The first two are identical, but take a look at the third one, especialy the rear gunner, see something?
Part of that ribbed glasing is removed giving a better view and moveability.
It is the G4M1 Model 11 manufactured from early 1943 on

blakduk
11-02-2009, 11:49 PM
The Betty was not particularly well-armoured and could be shot down by expert marksmen relatively easily. It was however reasonably well-armed.
I suggest you read this wikipedia entry about Butch O'Hare
link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_O'Hare)

The description of his lone fight against a formation of Bettys contrast with what occured to other less careful pilots. I've posted an extract below:
'By 1900 all Lexington planes had been recovered except for two F4F-3 Wildcats shot down while attacking enemy bombers; both were lost while making steady, no-deflection runs from astern of their targets. The pilot of one fighter was rescued, the other went down with his aircraft.'

It became pretty obvious to fighter pilots- dont sit on a Betty's six or you will get hurt http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif