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froschman
02-02-2008, 07:14 AM
My two best simulators are SHIII and the "Dambuster" addon to CFS2 from "Just Flight". I have a dream of a combination of these two. The Lancaster pictures from Wilhelm Schulz and others has made me write down my ideas.

Flying a Lancaster in the Dambusters was very good. The two cockpit views, head down and head up, were very good and the sound of the Merlin engines wonderful. Also, the feeling of flying a heavy aircraft was very good implemented. I did spend many hours flying the training missions and the dam buster missions, but the other missions were boring.

How about a sim, where you have a Lancaster with a crew, like uboat and crew in SHIII. You get a mission, to bomb a target somewhere. Then you have to plan the flying route with consideration to the latest info on flak positions and night fighter bases. These are marked on a map, and you draw your route as for the uboat in SHIII. The route can be adjusted during the mission as you wish.

Perhaps you have to choose which type and how much bombs to use and how much fuel to carry.

Then you start the flying. During night bombing the RAF did not fly in formations, but the bombers flew individually, see "Pastoral" by Nevil Shute and "The dam busters" by Paul Brickhill. It is similar to SHIII, where you are going with your uboat alone. And you should have a decent autopilot to handle the aircraft especially during time compression. Now I want to see a big difference to the scripted mission in the flight sims. It should be dynamic as in the missions in SHIII. Even if you repeat a mission, you should never know what the enemy is going to do. Also the time compression should work as in SHIII. If you are running at a high TC, it should automatically drop down when something happens. In CS2 I could increse the TC, but never decrease. Perheps it was due to my swedish keybord. I had to use the instant "teleportations" to the next point, but I did not like it.

You should get "points" according to how well you hit the assigned target, comparing to the tonnage in SHIII.

During a mission a number of things could happen. You could loose one or more engines, making problems to get home and land. The hydraulics could be damaged, causing problems with the undercarriage and/or flap extension, which makes the landing more difficult, perhaps forcing a belly landing. Fuel leak, perhaps forcing you to abort the mission and emergency release of the bomb load. If not possible to fly home, is there a closer base somewhere, or do you have to land/parachute over enemy land? If parachute, then you as the pilot has to be the last man out, you have to keep the plane flying until the crew has left.

Perhaps the career starts 1939 on Wellington or Hampden bombers, and you will get bigger bombers later according to your reknown.

Conclusion: My main idea is to have a flight simulator with a game engine similar to SHIII/IV with a career containing multiple dynamic mission. Also, it is a bomber simulator with a crew as an uboat. I have flown fighter simulators a lot, but a fighter pilot has to look around a lot, and that does not work very well on a PC. To simulate a bomber pilot is easier.

andy3536
02-02-2008, 07:59 AM
There was a game just like that.

B-17, you would have aspects of crew managment and you could even plan the raids and the routes that your flight would take and the bomb loadout of the aircraft.
You would have to deal with injured crew on the journey to and from the target too.
You would even get before and after recon films of the target and you would be told the damage you did in a % in the de-breifing.

Very old now though, don't think theres been anything since.
It would be nice to have an updated version with a modern graghics engine.

http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/614178/B17-Flying-Fortr...-Eighth/Product.html (http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/614178/B17-Flying-Fortress-The-Mighty-Eighth/Product.html)

cnelsoniii
02-02-2008, 10:06 AM
I agree with andy. Before there was SH3 I was flying thr B-17 in the Mighty Eighth. It was a good sim but did have it's drawbacks. Shockwave had looked into redoing that sim but found that it was just too time consuming and dropped it about a year and a half ago. I was sorry to see it go but found SH3 better and better modded. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PhantomKira
02-02-2008, 12:50 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif B-17 was fun. Rather in depth, too.

froschman
02-02-2008, 01:27 PM
Thank you for your opinion of B-17. I have it on my bookshelf and did try it some years ago, but did not like it then, because the handling of the aircraft was much inferior to the Lancaster in "Dambusters".

After reading your opinions, I think I have to make another try with it.

PhantomKira
02-02-2008, 02:15 PM
Well, having said that, it's sat on my shelf for the past two years or so too...

IL2 is my current aviation thing. Might just break out B-17 though.

The problem is more keyboard commands, and less the games themselves. I've found myself more than once pressing "]" in SH4 to try to speed up time compression. Oh, wait. That's IL2! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Hard to really master more than one or two at a time. And with the speed of air combat, well, you have to know it cold.

blastomatic1759
02-02-2008, 04:25 PM
i bought that microsoft flight sim last week and ended up giving it to my room mate , i found myself pulling the trigger when i was lined up on cars that were on the interstate . The game had good graphics and all , but the ultimate combo MFS , and IL2 together , i love IL-2.

Celeon999
02-03-2008, 07:37 AM
So Celeons thinks he's the big and bad wolf of the depths and can therefore rule the skies too. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif



Ive recently installed Lock On - Modern Air Combat and am now trying to figure out how to fly a modern fighter plane. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

Of course, i was shot down before i could figure out what this little red light in the lower right corner of my cockpit making "duuuud! duuuud !" wanted to tell me.

It obviously tried to say that someone is taking aim on me. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


You will surely notice that the Luftwaffe installed a Fräulein board computer into the german Mig-29. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

No problem with the A-10 or F-15 which speak english.... but the computers of the russian planes in the game logically all speak russian ... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif I dont understand a single word they say. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

"Kapitaliski pilotskaya nichivore robota!" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Instead of telling me what all was broken in plain fatherlandish ,she could have simply said :

"Dude....Let's face it...The Flugzeug is kaputt !" http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Ah yes..i could'nt find the key for the ejection seat in time either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif


Celeon's "Downfall" Video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LJQtKSaliMw)

tuddley3
02-03-2008, 07:39 AM
I've got Flight Simulator X, and it is amazing. I joined a virtual airlines as a cargo pilot for UPS. A virtual airline, is like a Flotilla for SH3.

If you get into FSX though, it will take up 1/2 your hard drive space with addons, but worth it. (Huh RJ ? Speak the truth now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif)

AtlantikEel
02-03-2008, 02:22 PM
Should Oleg Maddox ever get "Storm of War: Battle of Britain" released, I would hope (about ten years down the road) to see a flyable Lancaster -- with campaign missions -- in an add-on, as Oleg's stated intent is to re-visit all of WW2 straight through as in IL-2.

The impending release of Gennadich's "Knights of the Sky" (hopefully by the end of this year) excites me most.

Goose_Green
02-03-2008, 03:10 PM
My all time favourite combat flight sim was European Air War. I loved the thrill of flying a Spitfire into the bomber formations over the South East of England during the Battle of Britian. For it's time the graphics were great and the career format was very good too.

If only someone could create a combat flight sim again that allowed the pilot/player to start at the beginning of the war, have a choice between the Luftwaffe, RAF and later on the USAAF and follow a career path similar to that of the SH3 career path, recieve the accolades of success in battle with the usual renown and medals that allow the player to recieve newer addons for the aircraft quicker than other units.

Basically in a nut shell a combat flight sim version of SH3 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VikingGrandad
02-03-2008, 03:22 PM
Good video Celeon! Did you also forget where the ejector seat lever is? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've heard of 'Lock-on' before but not seen it in action before. The cockpit, sky and landscape graphics look great! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Maybe some head-movement-tracking would help you...

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-lock-on-mac.html

Check out the video links http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am thinking of getting one of those for IL-2, when I eventually get time to play it again.

Good for driving games too, or perhaps even FPS games.


@froschman - interesting ideas for a bomber sim... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I have some thoughts which I'll post here shortly...

tuddley3
02-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by VikingGrandad:

@froschman - interesting ideas for a bomber sim... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I have some thoughts which I'll post here shortly...

Hmm, VG, since you have some "Senior" authority, maybe Ubi would like to hear any suggestions you would have(Or anyone else's).

VikingGrandad
02-03-2008, 05:18 PM
RE: bomber sim....

It's interesting you should mention this as I've also thought about how a Silent Hunter-like WW2 bomber sim could work.

I think that not only would the general concept of the Silent Hunter game translate quite well to a WW2 bomber sim, the experience of playing a bombing mission is also comparable to a U-boat patrol. Having read about the experiences of RAF bomber crews and U-boat crews, I've noticed many similarities exist between them:

<LI> The stress of being hunted by evermore deadly destroyers and night fighters

<LI> The threat of evolving radar, radar detection and anti-radar defence technologies

<LI> Difficulties with navigation and weather, over long distances

<LI> The constant pressure and stress of a very high risk, high fatality tour of missions

<LI> The terrifying prospect of falling and burning thousands of feet in the air, or being crushed/drowned hundreds of feet underwater... (two extremes of fear that I imagine were similar in nature to endure).

<LI> The fear of sudden death from any one of hundreds of almost random, indiscriminate explosions... flak or depth charges that could, at any second, tear open the crew's fragile metal shell, in which they sat virtually helpless to defend themselves.

The above is also true of other bomber and submarine forces in WW2 - but there are three other important factors which link the experiences of Ubootwaffe and RAF Bomber Command crews particularly closely:

1. Throughout the entire war, both forces took the fight to the enemy - they attacked 'behind enemy lines'... effectively creating new fronts: the bomber crews attacking through the Luftwaffe & flak-filled skies over occupied Europe; the U-boat crews in the treacherous Atlantic seas, swarming with Allied ASW aircraft and warships. It was largely down to these two forces to sustain offensive pressure on the enemy's resources in Europe.

2. The ordeal of knowing that mission orders also would often result in civilian casualties... Allied merchant sailors and the inhabitants of German / German-occupied cities.

3. The staggering loss rates in each force... 70% (30,000) of U-boat crews and 55% (55,000) of bomber command personnel were killed in WW2. The consequence for the survivors is that each man would have lost many of his friends and colleagues on a regular basis. It's a well-known fact that U-boat crews suffered the highest casualty rate of any armed service in the history of modern war - but it would not surprise me if Bomber Command's 55% loss-rate is second to that.


Anyway, getting back to your post...


You get a mission, to bomb a target somewhere. Then you have to plan the flying route with consideration to the latest info on flak positions and night fighter bases. These are marked on a map, and you draw your route as for the uboat in SHIII. The route can be adjusted during the mission as you wish.

This could be as a result of a mission briefing at base, during which you would have to plot the course to the target so that it follows the route given, and also make notes about weather movements, flak locations, night fighter activity, etc. The effect of wind and visibility on navigation accuracy could also play a part, so that your aircraft could drift off course. This could be compensated for by having a really good navigator in your crew (or the efforts of you, the player).

In fact the competence of the navigator, flight engineer, pilot, wireless operator, bombardier and air gunners could also have more significant bearing on the success of a mission (more so than SH3). You could put any of these crew on 'auto' mode, or take on aspects of their roles at any time.


Perhaps the career starts 1939 on Wellington or Hampden bombers, and you will get bigger bombers later according to your reknown.

It would make sense to start the war with Wellingtons, Hampdens, Whitleys, etc. But of course this wouldn't necessarily make the missions easier than starting with a Lanc in 1942, as those aircraft (and Bomber Command's strategy) suffered badly in the early years of the war.

After the standard 30 mission tour, you could opt for a second tour as part of an elite pathfinder squadron, either in Lancaster or a Mosquito. You could also be briefed for special missions (e.g. Operation Crossbow).

Similar to Ubi's IL-2 series, it would be good to have a choice of bombers including those of the 'other side', so you could play as a German Dornier crew attacking Allied targets, for example.


Ubi, if you're listening, you now have at least two customers who would be interested in a WW2 bomber sim! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

froschman
02-04-2008, 04:58 AM
Thank you all for your interest in my "wild" idea!

Andy: I have reinstalled B-17 and run it a little under XP, but I have some problems with controlling the game. For example, sometimes when I am outside in "chase view", I am locked out and cannot get into the B-17 again. I have to abort the mission and restart, frustrating.

VG: Thank you for your ideas, they are quite in line with my thinking. I hope Ubi will listen, and hope they would get more customers beside you and me. I think such a game would attract the people in subsim communities.

Goose_Green
02-04-2008, 05:17 AM
Originally posted by VikingGrandad:
RE: bomber sim....

It's interesting you should mention this as I've also thought about how a Silent Hunter-like WW2 bomber sim could work.

I think that not only would the general concept of the Silent Hunter game translate quite well to a WW2 bomber sim, the experience of playing a bombing mission is also comparable to a U-boat patrol. Having read about the experiences of RAF bomber crews and U-boat crews, I've noticed many similarities exist between them:

<LI> The stress of being hunted by evermore deadly destroyers and night fighters

<LI> The threat of evolving radar, radar detection and anti-radar defence technologies

<LI> Difficulties with navigation and weather, over long distances

<LI> The constant pressure and stress of a very high risk, high fatality tour of missions

<LI> The terrifying prospect of falling and burning thousands of feet in the air, or being crushed/drowned hundreds of feet underwater... (two extremes of fear that I imagine were similar in nature to endure).

<LI> The fear of sudden death from any one of hundreds of almost random, indiscriminate explosions... flak or depth charges that could, at any second, tear open the crew's fragile metal shell, in which they sat virtually helpless to defend themselves.

The above is also true of other bomber and submarine forces in WW2 - but there are three other important factors which link the experiences of Ubootwaffe and RAF Bomber Command crews particularly closely:

1. Throughout the entire war, both forces took the fight to the enemy - they attacked 'behind enemy lines'... effectively creating new fronts: the bomber crews attacking through the Luftwaffe & flak-filled skies over occupied Europe; the U-boat crews in the treacherous Atlantic seas, swarming with Allied ASW aircraft and warships. It was largely down to these two forces to sustain offensive pressure on the enemy's resources in Europe.

2. The ordeal of knowing that mission orders also would often result in civilian casualties... Allied merchant sailors and the inhabitants of German / German-occupied cities.

3. The staggering loss rates in each force... 70% (30,000) of U-boat crews and 55% (55,000) of bomber command personnel were killed in WW2. The consequence for the survivors is that each man would have lost many of his friends and colleagues on a regular basis. It's a well-known fact that U-boat crews suffered the highest casualty rate of any armed service in the history of modern war - but it would not surprise me if Bomber Command's 55% loss-rate is second to that.


Anyway, getting back to your post...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You get a mission, to bomb a target somewhere. Then you have to plan the flying route with consideration to the latest info on flak positions and night fighter bases. These are marked on a map, and you draw your route as for the uboat in SHIII. The route can be adjusted during the mission as you wish.

This could be as a result of a mission briefing at base, during which you would have to plot the course to the target so that it follows the route given, and also make notes about weather movements, flak locations, night fighter activity, etc. The effect of wind and visibility on navigation accuracy could also play a part, so that your aircraft could drift off course. This could be compensated for by having a really good navigator in your crew (or the efforts of you, the player).

In fact the competence of the navigator, flight engineer, pilot, wireless operator, bombardier and air gunners could also have more significant bearing on the success of a mission (more so than SH3). You could put any of these crew on 'auto' mode, or take on aspects of their roles at any time.


Perhaps the career starts 1939 on Wellington or Hampden bombers, and you will get bigger bombers later according to your reknown.

It would make sense to start the war with Wellingtons, Hampdens, Whitleys, etc. But of course this wouldn't necessarily make the missions easier than starting with a Lanc in 1942, as those aircraft (and Bomber Command's strategy) suffered badly in the early years of the war.

After the standard 30 mission tour, you could opt for a second tour as part of an elite pathfinder squadron, either in Lancaster or a Mosquito. You could also be briefed for special missions (e.g. Operation Crossbow).

Similar to Ubi's IL-2 series, it would be good to have a choice of bombers including those of the 'other side', so you could play as a German Dornier crew attacking Allied targets, for example.


Ubi, if you're listening, you now have at least two customers who would be interested in a WW2 bomber sim! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Count me in as well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif Some great ideas there VG - It would be something totally original in concept - it's been far too long to have something WWII thats original!

andy3536
02-04-2008, 11:21 AM
Anything close to what B-17 did with a modern engine would be a must for me.
Not to sure on the piont about accurate navagation though http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif think mabee have that as an option so i can opt out http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

If one is ever made though you can count me in.
For those at the top, play B-17 and go from there http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Celeon999
02-04-2008, 11:37 AM
Originally posted by VikingGrandad:
Good video Celeon! Did you also forget where the ejector seat lever is? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I've heard of 'Lock-on' before but not seen it in action before. The cockpit, sky and landscape graphics look great! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Maybe some head-movement-tracking would help you...

http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-lock-on-mac.html

Check out the video links http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I am thinking of getting one of those for IL-2, when I eventually get time to play it again.

Good for driving games too, or perhaps even FPS games.


@froschman - interesting ideas for a bomber sim... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I have some thoughts which I'll post here shortly...


Yep i know Track-IR but i wonder if its really that good.

I mean i turn my head away from the monitor but have to keep my eyes centered on it or i wont see anything. Sounds not that cool to me.

So i can turn my head only very little and wont see much in the virtual cockpit anyway. Needless to say that i cant look to the side or behind me right ? Only when i configure it to a very unrealistic setup in which the virtual head turns almost around when i move my head just slighty to the side.

PhantomKira
02-04-2008, 04:32 PM
RE: Track IR

I believe it was origionally designed for the Doom series, at least that's the game I remember when reading the first reviews about it years ago, so FPS is exactly what it was origionally intended for. The main complaint was that there wasn't a "scaleing up" of movement on the origional version, which meant that you had to turn your head 90 degrees to see around corners; at which point you couldn't see the screen well. From what I've heard more recently, this has been fixed by "magnifying" your movements, so you don't have to turn your head much to look around corners.

Still, I'll bet it takes some getting used to. And of course is way cool and you wonder how you ever got along without it before once you are!

Having said that, I have no intention of getting one. I know padlock isn't realitic, but it'll do for me.

VikingGrandad
02-04-2008, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by Celeon999:
Only when i configure it to a very unrealistic setup in which the virtual head turns almost around when i move my head just slighty to the side.

Yes, that's how it has to work... It sounds unnatural, but from what I've read on the IL-2 forums, you just get used to it...

It's a lot of money to spend on something you may not like though. There are free software packages that do a similar job using a standard, low-cost webcam:

http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/7971090385

(several examples in that thread)

Maybe I'll try one of those before deciding to buy TrackIR.

Foehammer-1
02-04-2008, 05:40 PM
@ Celeon gets shot down video...

I played that game, but for some reason it wouldn't let me advance past level 2 in the F-15 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

And I love the Russian Mig-29 in German military http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Oh, that sweet voice. Left engine fire! Right engine fire! ECM failure! ACS failure! Radar failure! MLWS failure! Right engine fire! and repeat...

That reminded me. Maybe i will have another go at it once hell week passes http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AtlantikEel
02-05-2008, 12:37 AM
Originally posted by VikingGrandad:

Yes, that's how it has to work... It sounds unnatural, but from what I've read on the IL-2 forums, you just get used to it...

It's a lot of money to spend on something you may not like though.

A lot of money, but worth it....
I have Trackir 4, and I won't fly without it!
One thing I especially like is that in Over Flanders Fields, Trackir let me turn my head and peer down over the sides of the cockpit, and also to lean forward and be closer to the instrument panel... even peer through the gunsight!
Scan the sky around you with Trackir, and you'll never want to touch a hat switch again.

VikingGrandad
02-05-2008, 03:49 AM
Originally posted by PhantomKira:
I know padlock isn't realitic, but it'll do for me.

I mean to ask - what's "Padlock"?

VikingGrandad
02-05-2008, 03:53 AM
Originally posted by AtlantikEel:
A lot of money, but worth it....
I have Trackir 4, and I won't fly without it!
One thing I especially like is that in Over Flanders Fields, Trackir let me turn my head and peer down over the sides of the cockpit, and also to lean forward and be closer to the instrument panel... even peer through the gunsight!
Scan the sky around you with Trackir, and you'll never want to touch a hat switch again.

That sounds great!

Not heard of Flanders Fields before - got any screenshots?

Fish40
02-05-2008, 04:49 AM
That sounds great!

Not heard of Flanders Fields before - got any screenshots?



OFF (Over Flanders Fields) is an addon for CFS 3. It's a whole new game centered around WWI, using improved graphics for terrain, and WWI AC. I played it for a while, and it was great, but couldn't get used to flying planes that go slower than my car!
CFS3 also has a Korean War addon. This was cool, flying the Mig15, or F86. You also flew some of the prop planes used during the conflict as well.

Yet another CFS3 masterpiece that was in development (not sure if it was released) was MAW-Med Air War. It dealt with the Med campaign in the African dessert.

As for the have all, end all Lancaster Bombing Sim, I remember a while back there was an undertaking by a collection of developers working on their own without the constraints of a publishing co. to hinder them, trying to develop the ultimate Lancaster sim. The website was Nightbomber .com I think. I don't know if this was ever realized, but they did make some progress, posting some of the models in production. There was supposed to be dynamic weather, dynamic water (even posted a short video clip showing wave action), you name it. This is one I would get if it were completed!

VikingGrandad
02-05-2008, 07:30 AM
Thanks for the info Fish. OFF sounds good, but I've not heard many good things about MS CFS. I'm still a IL-2 newbie, so will stick with that to build up my flying competence for now.

Night Bomber sounds exactly the kind of game we've been talking about in this threads. I did some digging and found a 2001 news article about it:


One of the most unusual flight sims we've come across in recent weeks is Night Bomber. Not only is it the only flight sim that we can think of which focuses exclusively on night time operations during the Second World War, but it is also a non-commercial project which will be distributed free, with any profits that are made going to a variety of war-related charities from veterans groups to aircraft preservation societies. Despite this it promises to be commercial quality though, with veterans of projects for Microsoft, DiD and Microprose working on the game.

It's certainly not short on ambition either. There will be a dynamic campaign in which the outcome of the war depends in part on your own actions, and you will be able to fly either an RAF night bomber pulverising the Reich or one of the Luftwaffe's interceptors trying to stop them. There is even talk of being able to take over searchlights and anti-aircraft artillery positions on the German side. Geographically speaking the playing area should be vast. "The goal is to recreate the whole of Europe, from the north west of Scotland, to parts of Scandinavia and down to the south east of Germany and the alps", according to lead programmer Rick G. "We are currently attempting to gain access to high resolution satellite height data, which will allow us to recreate the terrain of Europe with a decent level of accuracy."

The game will also support full day and night cycles, which means that although all of the built-in missions will take place during the night, users will be able to create their own daylight missions. We can't help but feel that bombing German cities in the dark is a distinctly unglamorous and morally dubious aspect of the war for a flight sim to focus on, but the game is certainly promising a lot, from detailed flight models and dynamic campaigns to extensive multiplayer support and a brand new 3D engine. "Many people think of 'night bombers' and they assume there will be nothing to see and that everything will be black. This is very wrong, the sky is only black if you're under overcast clouds, or if it's the middle of the night. It also depends on the season, in summer the sky in Europe can remain a hue of blue until the early hours of the morning. And then of course there are stars ... rain, wind, storms etc."

From here (http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=30270). That was a long time ago and the Night Bomber web link is no longer working (just redirects to a spammy page). Here's an archived copy of the site from 2004:

http://web.archive.org/web/20041127215230/http://nightbomber.com/

(not many pages work in this archive copy of the site, dated 27 Nov 2004)

Seems the project had another title - "Target for Tonight" (presumably named after the RAF's 1941 documentary film of the same name).

What a pity the project never came to fruition http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

Messervy
02-05-2008, 10:09 AM
Good God, I was never aware of this.
What a pity.
Now that I know someone had tried but failed, I wonder will I ever get to see a "night bomber sim" in my life.

Worf101
02-05-2008, 10:20 AM
Track IR is "essential kit", just behind rudder pedals as necessary gear for me. TrackIR 4 is brilliant. It become instinctual. You not only can use it in IL2 but a host of other games as well. I won't fly without it personally.

Da Worfster

Celeon999
02-05-2008, 10:56 AM
My all time favourite combat flight sim was European Air War.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

http://img514.imageshack.us/img514/2880/bild032acp4.jpg

andy3536
02-05-2008, 03:53 PM
I was a big fan of european air war too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

It looks like that there is a sequel to B17, not entirly sure though.

http://www.find-games.co.uk/pc/b0007cgxfm.htm

Play.com has the release date in May 07 and there is another that says 28 Feb 08?

Has the game been pulled, is there a sequel on the way?
Mabee some of you guys in the states will have some better info, games seem to come out there first.......don't they?

VikingGrandad
02-05-2008, 04:52 PM
Interesting find, andy3536! There doesn't seem to be much info on the web about 'B17: Return of The Legend' though. Amazon has it listed as being published by G2 Games, but there's no mention of it on the G2 Games website.

I did find one snippet of info mentioned on a forum:


Shockwave Productions was planning on a remake of B-17 Flying Fortress The Mighty 8th called B-17 The Legend Returns but they were going to include the 15th A.F. as well.However the project got cancelled due to licensing problems with the owner of the simulation(Atari).

There is talk now about how B-17 III could be made as an extensive add on with Microsoft Flight Simulator X which is due to be released towards the end of 2006.That is if it is possible with the FSX engine.

It would be the most complex simulation of the B-17 on a P.C. that has ever been planned.

I found this add-on for MSFX too, which may or may not be anything to do with the above game:

Wings of POWER II: B-17G Flying Fortress (http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/wop2_b17/)

Hiriyu
02-05-2008, 09:54 PM
Originally posted by Worf101:
Track IR is "essential kit", just behind rudder pedals as necessary gear for me. TrackIR 4 is brilliant. It become instinctual. You not only can use it in IL2 but a host of other games as well. I won't fly without it personally.

Da Worfster

Yup. ^^

I've used TIR in it's various incarnations for years now, and will not fly without it. Lately, I've been sim-racing in an online league competitively, and now will not drive without it either. IMHO, TIR is one of the most valuable enhancements a simmer can ask for.

Messervy
02-05-2008, 11:06 PM
Originally posted by VikingGrandad:
I found this add-on for MSFX too, which may or may not be anything to do with the above game:

Wings of POWER II: B-17G Flying Fortress (http://www.shockwaveproductions.com/store/wop2_b17/)

Nothing to do with any other game.
It's simply an add-on flyable B-17 for FSX.

PhantomKira
02-06-2008, 10:44 AM
VG;

"Padlock" is a way of tracking enemy, or friendly aircraft and ground targets.

As I have it set up in IL-2, by pressing F6, my view will go to an external view of my aircraft in the foreground, with the nearest enemy aircraft in the background... and that enemy aircraft will remain centered in the screen, with my aircraft in the foreground, regardless of what maneuvering I do.

Pressing F6 again will go to the next nearest enemy aircraft, etc, until the cycle repeats itself. F1 will get me back into the cockpit, once I have a good idea of where the enemy aircraft is, so I can line up for the shot.

It's a bit disorienting initially, but once you figure it out, it's really nice.

It's also a crutch the size of England.

Unfortunately, without some system that allows you to look around the cockpit simply by moving your head, such as Track IR, or the Webcam system, it's simply too difficult to look around using the NumPad keys while at the same time trying to fly, and fight. Therefore, external views, and padlock, are about the only way to go without such capability, in my oppinion.

I should mention that in some programs, there is the capability to padlock (lock your view onto an enemy/friendly) from inside the cockpit, but I haven't been able to find it if IL-2 has such a feature. (Of course I haven't looked very hard either...)

VikingGrandad
02-07-2008, 05:10 PM
Thanks for the detailed explanation PhantomKira http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sounds like a handy function to know. Things happen so fast in IL-2, I don't have time to check the list of key controls!