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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:33 AM
Just wanted to say I recently upgraded to AMD 2800+ Barton and Radeon 9800 Pro and HOLY CRAP does anisotropic filtering make a big difference. This is the best thing that has happened to FB for me in awhile. The detail even at great distances is amazing and the smoke trails have doubled in length. Clouds look amazing as well. The Anti-Aliasing certainly looks nice too, but to be honest I think the AF is incredible. I play at 1600x1200 (everything at excellent) on a 21-inch monitor and the difference is huge.

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:33 AM
Just wanted to say I recently upgraded to AMD 2800+ Barton and Radeon 9800 Pro and HOLY CRAP does anisotropic filtering make a big difference. This is the best thing that has happened to FB for me in awhile. The detail even at great distances is amazing and the smoke trails have doubled in length. Clouds look amazing as well. The Anti-Aliasing certainly looks nice too, but to be honest I think the AF is incredible. I play at 1600x1200 (everything at excellent) on a 21-inch monitor and the difference is huge.

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 02:40 AM
Jealosy is a bad thing.

I`m feeling bad




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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:22 AM
I'd have to mortgage the house to get a 9800 pro here in Canada at some $600.


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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 03:30 AM
Got a 9800ProFX 256mb on the way as we speak




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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 07:11 AM
Life is cruel. I hate you all!!!1

Seriously, I can only use x2AF without mushing my frame rate and even that makes a big difference when compared to non at all.

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 08:08 AM
I was running 16x quality af back in the IL-2 demo days (and I run the same now on my 9800non pro at 443/401).

I havne't flown FB or IL-2 without 16xAF so I guess I'll have to turn it off to see the difference now /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

I know that it makes these screens look better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:07 AM
Can any of you spoilt brats explaine to me as if I was three years old what "Anisotropic Filtering" and "Anti-Aliasing" is? I realize now that I should probably be jealous, but on what?

Skarphol

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:16 AM
Skarphol wrote:
- Can any of you spoilt brats explaine to me as if I
- was three years old what "Anisotropic Filtering" and
- "Anti-Aliasing" is? I realize now that I should
- probably be jealous, but on what?
-
- Skarphol


Anti-Aliasing smoothens the edges of objects making them look less jagged. Anisotropic filtering improves the quality of textures.



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Tully__
10-30-2003, 09:17 AM
Anti-aliasing is method of getting rid of "stepped" straight edges (jaggies) by blending the colors of the pixels that form the edge.

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:25 AM
"I'd have to mortgage the house to get a 9800 pro here in Canada at some $600."

Prik, if you're serious about a purchase check Pricewatch. They have retailers selling for $300 incld/shp.

Even if they say American domestic shipping only, many times they will ship to Canada. If its worth your while, make a few contacts.

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:35 AM
Are you sure it's not "Anthropomorphic filtering"
because I haven't seen a single furry in FB.
Could be that my system is getting old,though

Me want your computer

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:43 AM
Anisotropic filtering (AF) is used to address a specific kind of texture artifact that occurs when a 3D surface is sloped relative to the view camera.

A single screen pixel could encompass information from multiple texture elements (texels) in one direction, such as the y-axis, and fewer in the x-axis, or vice-versa. This requires a non-square texture filtering pattern in order to maintain proper perspective and clarity in the screen image. If more texture samples are not obtained in the direction or axis where an image or texture surface is sloped into the distance (like a receding perspective view), the applied texture can appear fuzzy or out of proportion. The problem worsens as the angle of the surface relative to the view camera approaches 90 degrees, or on-edge.

To correct the problem, as mentioned, AF uses a rectangular, trapezoidal, or parallelogram-shaped texture-sampling pattern whose length varies in proportion to the orientation of the stretch effect. With AF, textures applied to the sloped surfaces will not look as fuzzy to the viewer.

A classic example is a texture with text; recall the text at the beginning of every Star Wars film that sets up the story. As the text scrolls off into the distance, its resolution and legibility both tail off. Another example is in a billboard of a racing game, where the text looks fuzzy and/or disproportionate without AF, and much clearer with AF applied.

rogo

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:08 AM
Another one has seen the light http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The bad thing is that when you get used to playing all games with aa and anisotropic you can´t go back to running without when more demanding games comes out.

I can´t play a single game without 4x aa at at least 1280x960 on my 21" monitor and 8x anisotropic. Luckily no game forces me yet to lower this settings but those days will come soon I am afraid http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:39 AM
kyrule2 wrote:
- Just wanted to say I recently upgraded to AMD 2800+
- Barton and Radeon 9800 Pro and HOLY CRAP does
- anisotropic filtering make a big difference. This is
- the best thing that has happened to FB for me in
- awhile. The detail even at great distances is
- amazing and the smoke trails have doubled in length.
- Clouds look amazing as well. The Anti-Aliasing
- certainly looks nice too, but to be honest I think
- the AF is incredible. I play at 1600x1200
- (everything at excellent) on a 21-inch monitor and
- the difference is huge.
-

Just wondering, do you mean Anisotropic filtering beeing enabled from IL-2 setup (video settings) or in your graphic settings? I Noticed, that If I enable it on IL-2 setup, it seems like my ground objects is harder to spot from great distances..


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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 11:40 AM
I just enabled AA 4xQ on my Ti4200 but didn't test on IL2FB (last night) instead I tested it on LOMAC Demo and apart from losing a few FPS it made the game run smoother and smudged it out making it look more realistic etc.

4xQ(AA) and 8xAF

Ah the fun.

Gonna try tonight with IL2FB - shame I can't get perfect water anymore with these new 52.16 drivers boo hoo.

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 12:22 PM
Thr0tt wrote:
-
- 4xQ(AA) and 8xAF
-

I know it's a slightly lame question, but where do I set these values? Is it in the games hardware-section, or on some kind of device-control? (I'm at work right now, and can't remember seeing these alternatives)

Thanks to you other guys for very good explaination of these effects, wich I didn't have any idea of!

Skarphol

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 01:23 PM
On my GF4 its in the display properties.

Right Click on desktop
Properties
Settings
Advanced
then find the tab for you GFX card. (Just scroll through tabs until you find it).

Hope that helps.

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 04:58 PM
Rogodin wrote:
- I was running 16x quality af back in the IL-2 demo
- days (and I run the same now on my 9800non pro at
- 443/401).
-
- I havne't flown FB or IL-2 without 16xAF so I guess
- I'll have to turn it off to see the difference now
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- I know that it makes these screens look better /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif
-
- -
Hey Rogo, now you are torturing me with those fantastic pics again, btw can I take your word on the sig thing??
Would probably make me happy until christmas or longer...
Anyway, I got a 9800 pro, but I havent dared going for 443/401, still under 350. Dont you encounter any problems with that agressive setting?

S1 nightnight




Message Edited on 10/30/0303:59PM by nightnight

Hawgdog
10-30-2003, 05:12 PM
nightnight wrote:
- Rogodin wrote:
- Anyway, I got a 9800 pro, but I havent dared going
- for 443/401, still under 350.


I've got a 9700pro Tachyon card, I'm at 375.55/333.82 with no problems, yes its a different card, however push 'em till you see odd little deformities in the screen, be observant!!!! If you see speckles or black geometric shapes take heed and back off.
Mine came with a temp monitor so I can tell if gets hot- both the memory and vpu temp- never went past 45-46 under load. I'm going to fry this card or get thru black death with an average of 50! Currently depending on where I get the AA and AF pushed to I get about30-40fps average

but do post your clock speeds I like to fantasize about something quicker

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XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 05:38 PM
il2fb dont run great on my system /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif
barton at 2.2ghz (real speed not pr /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif ) 400fsb, 1gig ram, and a 9700 pro @ stock
well actully its a 9700 flashed to pro speeds with a fan stuck on wid bluetac and tape cos orig one dieing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif .
hence why i havent clocked it past pr0, yet...

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 07:23 PM
Hawgdog wrote:
-
- nightnight wrote:
-- Rogodin wrote:
-- Anyway, I got a 9800 pro, but I havent dared going
-- for 443/401, still under 350.
-
-
- I've got a 9700pro Tachyon card, I'm at
- 375.55/333.82 with no problems, yes its a different
- card, however push 'em till you see odd little
- deformities in the screen, be observant!!!! If you
- see speckles or black geometric shapes take heed and
- back off.
- Mine came with a temp monitor so I can tell if gets
- hot- both the memory and vpu temp- never went past
- 45-46 under load. I'm going to fry this card or get
- thru black death with an average of 50! Currently
- depending on where I get the AA and AF pushed to I
- get about30-40fps average
-
- but do post your clock speeds I like to fantasize
- about something quicker

Hmm, it seems like I,m a real fuzzy chicken, ok I,ll try to rise the bets a little further. Btw which system, settings and res do you have performing 30-40 fraps?
Anyway, if I do burn my card there should always be something new and faster out there, aint it?? This might be the future way to get a new card without trying to explain why to my wife.....its simply broke!
S! night /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

XyZspineZyX
10-30-2003, 09:57 PM
Well I have always found that in all games it´s better disabling the ingame antialiasing or anisotropic and run ATIs instead. That is just about always featuring better image quality.

FS 2004 is a perfect example on this. It´s antialiasing is a joke really...

Hawgdog
10-30-2003, 10:13 PM
nightnight wrote:
- Hmm, it seems like I,m a real fuzzy chicken, ok I,ll
- try to rise the bets a little further. Btw which
- system, settings and res do you have performing
- 30-40 fraps?


Sorry, forgot those. 4xAA, 16xAF and "quality" settings for texture pref and mipmap detail. Vert sync always on, I use TrackIR and 1024x768x32 @85 for the monitor and resolution.


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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 01:55 AM
Vipez,

I enable 4xAA and 4xAF in my graphics driver control panel, as Thrott said (except they are under the OpenGL and Direct-X tabs). I get great frame rates and I could likely go higher.

As a note, I also just upgraded my case to an Antec Performance II series with new smart-power series 400-watt power supply. I mention this because before I had a cheap case with a 400-watt (cough, cough) power supply that would crash my system whenever I put a load on my computer. This Antec case is incredible, my cpu is running 10 degrees cooler just in normal operating conditions (browsing the web, etc.)!

So a lesson to others;

When buying great components don't get cheap when it comes to the power and case, trust me.

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Message Edited on 10/31/0312:58AM by kyrule2

adlabs6
10-31-2003, 05:15 AM
I don't often use the Ansiotropic filtering in FB, partly because it makes the nearly invisible grass airstrips even more invisible, plus my Ti4200 drops frames like crazy when AF or FSAA is enabled in FB.

It does look great though, I can run at 4x FSAA and 8x AF in FS2004, and have almost NO fps hit. I wish FB was like that.

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 05:44 AM
p1ngu666 wrote:
- il2fb dont run great on my system barton at 2.2ghz (real speed not pr 400fsb, 1gig ram, and a 9700
- pro @ stock
- well actully its a 9700 flashed to pro speeds with a
- fan stuck on wid bluetac and tape cos orig one
- dieing
- hence why i havent clocked it past pr0, yet...


Something is wrong.......either your settings or your expectations of "great". With a system like that you shold be running very nice!! I just upgrade to a Barton +2500, I have 1G of DDR266, (which I will upgrade later) and a 9500Pro card... I sure hope I am not singing your tune when I put it all together or I will be PI$$ED!!!

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 12:41 PM
Hey bearcat what FPS are you getting and in the il2 control panel what options do you have turned on/off on the video tab as well as which drivers do you have

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 02:22 PM
At least post screenshots if you are going to claim that anisotropic filtering is usefull in a flight sim.

As mentioned, make sure to include a shot of a grass air-strip.

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Hawgdog
10-31-2003, 02:46 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
- At least post screenshots if you are going to claim
- that anisotropic filtering is usefull in a flight
- sim.
-
- As mentioned, make sure to include a shot of a grass
- air-strip.


I know those settings will make the difference between being able to see a snow covered runway or not.
With higher settings you cant see the runway until you're on it. Lower settings the runway jumps out as a black strip
test it yourself, its too much work to post pictures to prove when its just a QM away /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 08:44 PM
Well it´s go without say that anisotropic is good for flight sims. Anisotropic helps with texture detail in the distance and as we all know the viewing distance in flight sims are quite long...

And you can run the black death track yourself with or without anisotropic or any other track.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 08:57 PM
Anisotrophic is a waste in flight sims.

It's best when you are right on the texture, not 2000m above it. You'll only notice it when you are rolling down the runway, and even less so if you play with the cockpit on. Hardly worth the performance hit. Far better in games where you are a person walking on the gorund.

Secondly you are just making planes harder to see (just like trees do)

No, AF is not so hot in flight sims.

Clouds look better too? How the heck do clouds look better because AF is on? Time for the sugar pill to wear off...

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 09:28 PM
RBJ Force is strong with this VGA bashing. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Not attacking RBJ, I got same opinion with RBJ partly. (partly! /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif )
Resolution & visiblity over eye candy for flight sim.




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Hawgdog
10-31-2003, 09:35 PM
peaches

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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:03 PM
But how people translate to anisotropic filtering offering less visibility in the distance is beyond me really...

Sure if you don´t care about eye candy don´t use antialiasing or anisotropic.

Anyone who don´t think anisotropic matters run the black death track with and without and you see how useful it is.

XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:08 PM
I don't think the dot will appear any sooner or later AF or no AF.

I was saying that it's easier to tell a dot against a non-AF texture than an AF-texture. But if I had a card that could do AF no problems, I would turn it on. It's not that big a deal in a flight sim though.

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adlabs6
10-31-2003, 10:15 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
- At least post screenshots if you are going to claim
- that anisotropic filtering is usefull in a flight
- sim.
-
- As mentioned, make sure to include a shot of a grass
- air-strip.

Is this message for me? I'm guessing so since it appears I'm the only one who had mentioned grass air-strips up to that point.

No, I won't post any screens. This entire subject is up to the viewer's perception, not science. To my eyes, the AF seems to make the grass or snow strips on the horizon harder to see. Others may not agree. To my eyes, running at 1280x1024 with no AA or AF looks just as good as 1024x768 with lots of AA and AF. Others disagree and will run 1600x1200 with maxed out AA and AF. To each his own.

Posting screenshots or trying to prove something absolutely will only feed those who are waiting to nay say.



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XyZspineZyX
10-31-2003, 10:28 PM
anisotropic filtering on my ati 9200 agp version really brings down the frames.
first I played at 2000 m altitude and 50 frames(wel 47 but sometimes over 50) and when I turn on anisotropic filtering 2x and same thing I get like 30 or something
and I really wanna keep my smoothyness. Or is there a way to reduce the effect it has on frames
like putting things off/on?


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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 12:22 AM
adlabs6 wrote:
- To my eyes, running at 1280x1024 with no AA or AF
- looks just as good as 1024x768 with lots of AA and
- AF. Others disagree and will run 1600x1200 with
- maxed out AA and AF. To each his own.

Hmmm...I always thought that if you run at 1600x1200 that anti-aliasing made no difference because you're already at the highest resolution the graphics engine can display. I mean if you're already at a 1-to-1 pixel to screen ratio how could anything be smoothed further? Anyone really know the answer to this?

I run IL2FB on my 9800pro 1600x1200, AF=16x, AA/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif ff.

Dennis

adlabs6
11-01-2003, 12:51 AM
warlock03 wrote:
- Hmmm...I always thought that if you run at 1600x1200
- that anti-aliasing made no difference because you're
- already at the highest resolution the graphics
- engine can display. I mean if you're already at a
- 1-to-1 pixel to screen ratio how could anything be
- smoothed further? Anyone really know the answer to
- this?
-
- I run IL2FB on my 9800pro 1600x1200, AF=16x, AA off.

I have no idea, but I know of FS2004 players that say they do this. My eye sight is poor, even with my glasses, so I can't tell too much difference under normal gameplay conditions.

Still, it should work the same, since AA only averages neighboring pixels (to put it simply). You can have a clear "jaggy" boundry between higher contrast areas at any resolution, and if your monitor has enough resolution detail in theory (practice?) you could see it.

http://www.geocities.com/adlabs6/B/bin/AA.JPG


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XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 02:28 AM
RayBanJockey wrote:
- I don't think the dot will appear any sooner or
- later AF or no AF.
-
- I was saying that it's easier to tell a dot against
- a non-AF texture than an AF-texture. But if I had a
- card that could do AF no problems, I would turn it
- on. It's not that big a deal in a flight sim
- though.
-
- "The Force is strong with this one." -What an ace
- said of RayBanJockey during a fight when he was
- still a newbie.
- news update (http://www.theinformationminister.com/press.p
-)

No that is correct. And if you don´t use antialiasing you may notice it even sooner because the human eye don´t like jaggies in computer games since there aren´t any in real life http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But it´s a possibility that you can see what plane you are up against a fraction sooner.

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 06:26 AM
I make a simple post about something and in typical fasion it turns into an argument. I don't know the technical aspects of AA and AF but I can sure as hell tell you that after playing FB on the same settings for a year or so and then just recently adding AF and AA under the same settings I notice a HUGE difference even at 1600x1200. The terrain and distant objects are much clearer, and AA is certainly working as well. Play Call of duty at 1600x1200, then add AA and you will notice a very big difference. And yes, clouds look clearer as do the elongated smoke trails because distant objects/textures/graphics are clarified. On the internet you will see pictures of smoke trails used as an example to show the effects of AF. They make the distant small, barely visible graphics clearer, allowing you to see further and making the smoke trails seem longer. The difference in using AA and AF is night and day for me, and anybody would easily notice the difference if viewing it. So RBJ take that sugar pill and shove it up your a$$ and stop posting your usual annoying sh1t.

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Message Edited on 11/01/0305:51AM by kyrule2

XyZspineZyX
11-01-2003, 06:41 AM
No Text

Message Edited on 11/01/0305:42AM by kyrule2