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general_kalle
05-11-2006, 09:19 AM
is it just me or is it impassible to shoot anything down with only the machine guns on the zero. if u run out of cannon ammo then return home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif... ...or make a kamikaze attack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Vacillator
05-11-2006, 09:33 AM
They're weak alright, but it depends a bit on what you're shooting at, how close you are and whether you manage to hit enough times http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif .
It does carry a lot of mg ammo so you can do some damage if you have the time...

LEBillfish
05-11-2006, 10:09 AM
Untrue!!.....I infact prefer the A6M series with the high loadout small caliber guns and the Ki-43 with the twin 7.7mm......

First off, drop your convergence down between 150-175m.. and be selective when you fire. Wait till they climb hard, or bank aiming for either the wing roots or prop (leading for the engine)........Also, don't pound away expecting to see wings pop off and such....You quite often can wound them easy enough that the plane is essentially dead....It will often lose control trying to fight you more, or die out as it tries to RTB.

general_kalle
05-11-2006, 10:28 AM
ok they can wound the pilot but to have a chance doing that u need at least 4 of em
y dont they just drop the mg's and put more ammo to the cannons

Bearcat99
05-11-2006, 10:58 AM
If there is one thing I have learned about this sim its that things are never what they seem and more practice makes everything better... seriously. Practice your gunnery... check your convergence.... keep it tight. Use tracks and the arcade mode to check your accuracy... you may find you arent hitting as much as you think.

DuxCorvan
05-11-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
y dont they just drop the mg's and put more ammo to the cannons

Because WW2 was over sixty-one years ago and the Japanese didn't do it. This is a sim, you remember? The planes have the same ammo that they had in real life.

And why in real life they didn't add ammo to cannons? Well, you see... cannon ammo... has huge VOLUME and WEIGHS a lot!

(DF-Quake minds, tsk tsk... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif)

LEBillfish
05-11-2006, 11:03 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
ok they can wound the pilot but to have a chance doing that u need at least 4 of em
y dont they just drop the mg's and put more ammo to the cannons

Uh no.....they can kill the plane. Let me put it to you this way....I often like to fly a 8 Wildcat vs. my 1 Ki-43-Ia Ko, which has weaker guns and half the ammo and NO cannons, mission. Now this goes for both online and off......I regularly down 4 of the Wildcats and the rest must withdraw too wounded to fight.

Engine hits, control surface hits, fuel tank fires, let alone pilot kills all take their toll. Sometimes I end up getting all 8......

In contrast you're looking for that "insta-Kill"...Planes exploding, wings popping off and so on. Now don't get me wrong, I have gotten many kills like that with just the light machine guns IF!!!....you hit the plane in the right spot. Yet if I kill 4, and the other 4 must limp back to base what often happens is the engines will die before they get there sometimes even catching fire, or they crash on landing, or they stall plane so damaged as they try to kill me.

So you see, try and think "dominate the air space" not insta-kill.....In the end you may get more then you think.....I also have done this with A6M2's and JUST the light guns against SBD's, very tough planes.

As to extra cannons......Impossible......They only carried the 2 and the planes here are made like the ral ones not some fantasy plane.

ColoradoBBQ
05-11-2006, 11:08 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
is it just me or is it impassible to shoot anything down with only the machine guns on the zero. if u run out of cannon ammo then return home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif... ...or make a kamikaze attack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

Or become a better pilot. A good way to use machine guns is to pull up to the unfortunate fighter and empty your guns into his engine with a side slip manuever.

Stigler_9_JG52
05-11-2006, 01:40 PM
Well, none other than Suburo Sakai said that he preferred the twin MGs to the cannon, because the cannon were so much harder to score with.

The advice here is apt: provided you fire from close in and get nice solid tracking shots, the MGs can get the job done.

No, you won't get one ping kills, but you will get the satisfaction that you got a no-doubt-about-it kill when it's a MG kill.

general_kalle
05-11-2006, 01:43 PM
ok machine guns can down a plane but not as fast as guns...but i need to do it as fast as guns or i will end up have 3 on my tail while i chase my target... zero just dont do it for me

Treetop64
05-11-2006, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
ok machine guns can down a plane but not as fast as guns...but i need to do it as fast as guns or i will end up have 3 on my tail while i chase my target... zero just dont do it for me

Then fly a different plane and shaddup!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Jus' kiddin' there, Bro.

Dood, there's a reason why the A6Ms carried so much MG ammo, especially when firing on well protected American machines is considered. The MGs were weak, both historically and in the sim, and you have to be awfully good to down anything in the Zero once you run out of cans.

Same goes for the early Me109s. Just 60 cans for each cannon, then afer that you're hard-pressed to down anything with the machine guns you left with. Unless, again, you are a very good shot at selecting what you hit on the aircraft you're shooting at.

WTE_Galway
05-11-2006, 11:59 PM
Several points really

- practice .. in particular get used to centering the ball before firing

- do not shoot from the dead six .. use deflection shots, shots from above or below, if tis a bomber headon attacks

- always shoot at convergence range

- get to know your target weakspots, for example in ETO the ju88 is susceptible to pilot kills but the heinkel is easier to take out with engine damage


If machine guns have a downside its that the kills are often not "instant" allowing someone else whether AI or "human" online to "steal" your kill

If its any help i made some tracks for another thread showing how even a rotten shot like myself can take out a bomber with just machine guns with the right attacks. The tracks are unfortunately 4.04m only and show a 1938 hurricane against ACE AI heinkels and ju88's.

http://www-personal.une.edu.au/~gfitzpat/tracks.zip (http://www-personal.une.edu.au/%7Egfitzpat/tracks.zip)

HotelBushranger
05-13-2006, 06:28 AM
Mate, once online in my 109G-2, I spotted a P-38 below me, so I went for it, and he nosed up. In the head on, I got my cannon jammed (read: only 2 mgs). But in the ensuing dogfight, I got him to head for the heavens, and I let drive with my mgs. Hits over the engines, pilot, control surfaces gone, he nosed head first into the ground. It can be done. What matters is the attitude. Most online pilots, once they see you are out of cannon, will think you're an easy kill. Don't make it easy! Head straight for him and give him the shock of his life, redouble your efforts to get him and double your aggression. 9 times out of 10 he won't be expecting and you should be able to take him down.

Hell, I've even sawn an Il-2 in half with an Aichi Val!

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/909/d3a5fb.jpg

VW-IceFire
05-13-2006, 07:08 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
is it just me or is it impassible to shoot anything down with only the machine guns on the zero. if u run out of cannon ammo then return home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif... ...or make a kamikaze attack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif
Not impossible...but it is harder than with cannons. The cannons were often unreliable in the late 1930s and early 1940s so machine guns were fitted to ensure that even if one or both cannons jammed the pilot still had something with which to shoot his opponent down.

To score kills with the machine guns in the Zero, you have to get very close to the target plane and aim for specific areas on the target. The cockpit, the engine, or the wing root (usually containing a fuel tank for instance) are the best areas to aim for. The engine and pilot being the best possible. You may not bring the plane down with a spectacular explosion but you will leave him helpess and gliding.

DuxCorvan
05-13-2006, 04:54 PM
What do suck those 'sucking guns'? I thought they just spitted... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

PBNA-Boosher
05-14-2006, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
ok machine guns can down a plane but not as fast as guns...but i need to do it as fast as guns or i will end up have 3 on my tail while i chase my target... zero just dont do it for me

Is it just me, or aren't machine guns actually guns?

Learn to shoot dude.

JG53Frankyboy
05-15-2006, 02:50 AM
in general rifle caliber guns became obsolete in WW2 . not without reason they were replaced with heavier calibers in later planevariants.
Spitfire
109
190
A6M
Yak
as examples.

about the ingame A6M lMG , its not easy with them to set an enemy plane on fire. it looks like they have not much, if at all, incendiary rounds in their belts.
try to shoot at the wings of an Ki-43. its not easy to set it on fire.
than use the machineguns of an 109 , its very easy to set the Oscar on fire.


abd for the future Nomonhan scenario, Ki-27 vs I-16&I-153.
its horror for the japanese- the 4 SchKas are working like MK108 on the unprotectet japanese planes , but to shoot down one of these Polikarpows with two japanese Army light machine guns , well, be patient http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Treetop64
05-15-2006, 07:48 AM
BTW all, the guns don't suck.

They blow...



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Tully__
05-15-2006, 11:09 AM
Originally posted by LEBillfish:
...Also, don't pound away expecting to see wings pop off and such...
Exactly, just like in real life many aircraft that were lost flew on for minutes or in some cases much longer before finally crashing or losing control. Patience and don't expect every target to instantly go down in a ball of flame or glorious explosion.

Chuck_Older
05-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Originally posted by general_kalle:
is it just me or is it impassible to shoot anything down with only the machine guns on the zero. if u run out of cannon ammo then return home http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif... ...or make a kamikaze attack http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

I think you'll find that the light machine guns were not the primary armament for a sound military reason http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

AVGWarhawk
05-17-2006, 10:34 AM
Everyone hopes for the 'Golden BB' that rips off a wing or whacks the pilot in the back of the head....but those are far and few between. The machine guns in the zero are loaded to the hilt with ammo. Get close and lay into them! If anything, they will head back to base with their tails between their legs. A lot of folks are not happy with the .50 on American planes, say they are weak. Apples to apples, 7.7mm/.50 cal., I find the .50 very effective in the P-40 (my favorite fighter)so with that said, if the .50 cal are effective then the 7.7mm are just as effective in bringing down a plane.

WTE_Galway
05-17-2006, 06:13 PM
Originally posted by AVGWarhawk:
Everyone hopes for the 'Golden BB' that rips off a wing or whacks the pilot in the back of the head....but those are far and few between. The machine guns in the zero are loaded to the hilt with ammo. Get close and lay into them! If anything, they will head back to base with their tails between their legs. A lot of folks are not happy with the .50 on American planes, say they are weak. Apples to apples, 7.7mm/.50 cal., I find the .50 very effective in the P-40 (my favorite fighter)so with that said, if the .50 cal are effective then the 7.7mm are just as effective in bringing down a plane.

.50 cal is more like 12.7 mm almost double