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Stafroty
10-22-2007, 07:52 AM
its almost biggest reason i got killed in online, when enemy explodes near, some under 100m distance from me.. i thought it was recommended to shoot enemy under 100m distance in WW2, which in IL-2 terms would have killed both shooter and target..

What really goes off as hard as 500kg bomb in planes eploding?

fuel? oxy bottle? their mix? what? isnt planes moving so there aint going to be correct mixture for such big bang.. different thing if its static and its given time to form the just correct amounts of gas vapours to go off like "bomb".. now its usual..


or is it its ammunition, which should have safetys on their detonators, so they should not bang at all. and is it always that ammuniton goes off violently, no matter where it is located, no matter if not even at hit zone where shootin is hittin, they still go off`??


this explosion thing is really eatin fun of this game, as well immersion. you cant ZnB or TnB safely, only at hundreds of meters away, and hopin that enemy burning without wing when u pass it dont go off next to u of behing u, u get hits, bad ones.

often u kill enemy, go past it and then u die, as it goes off with big bang theory..

is it too hard to remove such unrealistic modellin from game? How often did planes explode in real life with such big booms that theres nothing left but little depris from it.. cant those exlosions be made bit smaller, that it only rips wing off, if u hit ammo storage, or tail if u hit oxy bottle, dpendin where it is..

now its way unreal, for real. i know some fanboys, yes yes boys come to say, that im wrong etc.

before that kind of guys anwers, pls take a look what it takes for gasoline to explode in such forse, what mixture. same take some data how ammunition safetys are workin and what is needed for removing safety..


think.

Stafroty
10-22-2007, 08:00 AM
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=BHB-9V-VORU

i see no big bangs in here.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=8wXrAMbL3Do

or in here, just flames going up, which is nothing what would damage anything.

if ammos cartridge cook off, it wont send ammo in live mode to anytwhere, its like new years rocket, the case would more likely to fly off while the round itself won, as its heaviel, ammo aint in barrel, which would be different story..


what removes safety of such magik ammo in magik explosion? id like to know?

M_Gunz
10-22-2007, 08:53 AM
Long time no c u here, wondered a bit but here you are!

Find a discount copy of 1968 MGM Battle of Britain. One technical consultant was Adolph
galland, they wanted to be as historic as they could. Exploding planes in that show pieces
here and there it would not do your plane any good to be hit by, not at all.

I don't think there is enough excess PC power yet to model all that is real as real.

You remember sims from back 15+ years ago? Red Baron? Aces of the Pacific? Jetfighter?
F-19 Stealth? Falcon-probably the best of those days or SWOTL?

People who complain should be locked away with very old computers, the lucky ones run DOS
and the unlucky ones run Windows 1 barely patched, the record reset champion that made W95
seem golden. Perhaps a long winter of that and then look again at the games we have now.

K_Freddie
10-22-2007, 09:04 AM
Have a look at the history of the game and Oleg's reasons why some things were done better than others. Then go fly another sim, then fly IL2 again... You'll then see the difference. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Zoom2136
10-22-2007, 02:03 PM
Well people expect the big hollywood style explosions....

Sure you could have the occasional big explosion... but most should be limited in scope causing only masive structural failure... and less of the mini nuke we presently have in game...

Me fav is when you see a FW190 strafe ground targets with its MK108.... please talk about over modelled visual effects....

Lurch1962
10-22-2007, 05:23 PM
Gun cam films probably show no nearby "mini nuke" plane explosions because those that did occur destroyed the filming plane and its camera. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

But seriously, I too find close in knife fights hairy for this reason. I try to rein in my tendency to hose down my victim if I'm getting close.

Stafroty
10-22-2007, 05:26 PM
actually flying sims is gettin not so intresting anymore. no matter what game it is. its just math and polygon graphs.. Illusion of "reality"..

But about the explosions, they were better in one phase of game developement. planes really did explode then too, but it didnt give any damage, only parts of the planes did, IF they hit the plane.

But, how often really planes goes off like in game, really?? any guncam vids or such to show that its like real now, i bet not a single fact of vids can be found to prove that this what we have in game is nearest the real...

Just change the explosions far more smaller rad, or make different kinds of special effects of planes destruction. why its always whole plane exploding like its made from nitroglyserin.

cant it just crush on ground and go deformed and lose parts or such with nice flame effects etc?


Just, try to fly behind enemy and nail them with 30mm or 20mm cannon, or just 50cals- u gotta fly near, like say hartman did, REally near.. HE should have died if in real things would been like in game.. in game u can shoot ur own engine with 109, just fly near enought and shoot enemy, shrapnels hits own engine and kills it... hehe.

Stafroty
10-22-2007, 05:27 PM
of course sim is great, but i just want it to be far more greater, that dreaming makes us all go ahead, develope things..

S! anyway.

DustyBarrels77
10-22-2007, 05:44 PM
fly the non atombomb toting cannon clownwagons and you wont have to worry about it ever, except against ijn ac with mgs. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif jk but not really. I do totally agree with you the exploding a enemy aircraft to dust is so fake and just plain stupid and its explosion arrows, i wish they could make some sort of arcing debris thats slower then an explosion to simulate large piece falling off a enemy ac when under fire. for the explosions i wish they could make it less frequent like 1 out of a thousand and build some kind of advanced dm to disable ac controls and lock in somekind of downward spiral angle more pilotkills more fire deaths with secondary explosions that make the ac loose parts or something to get a quick kill. I like janes wwii fighters how every ac had the shattered front canopy and oilsplash blocking forward visability completely, pretty accurate and fair all aircraft had the same exact thing and no front visability. This game we have so many pit modelers some choose oilsplashes that cover the site while other russian ac the splash covers nothing and revi glass breaks perfect to use as a cross hair so doesnt matter if its broke or not while the 109 breaks to the side and gets grayed out.

The wings falling off fuselage breaking apart or have all the aircrafts engine mounts able to break and fall off the plane so its not in the fight anymore after some devastating hits but i think that happens too frequently, thats why in this game its cannon or nothing.

It seems all clipped cables are so rare because mgs dont do it that often anymore then with cannon 1-2 hits will do it to all controls but 3-4+ hits causes the explosion.

good points stafroty and do agree with you

Stafroty
10-23-2007, 07:31 PM
thanks DustyBarrels77 for ur post.

Bumb

VW-IceFire
10-23-2007, 08:31 PM
Someone try and explain to me why a plane shouldn't explode in a large way when hit.

Stafroty
10-23-2007, 08:54 PM
Icefire, lets make it this way, Explain us what there is exploding in a way like we feel it in game? is it realistic, explain what is going off with so hard power and how it is possible.

As you explain me the reasons, i will ask you more about the issue, on things i dont understand. ok?

Rattler68
10-23-2007, 09:30 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
its almost biggest reason i got killed in online, when enemy explodes near, some under 100m distance from me.. i thought it was recommended to shoot enemy under 100m distance in WW2, which in IL-2 terms would have killed both shooter and target..

What really goes off as hard as 500kg bomb in planes eploding?

fuel? oxy bottle? their mix? what?
What % do you believe is this occuring for you? I rarely have this experience.

I have had planes explode on me, as we all have: the vapour in the tanks would be plenty to cause a catastrophic explosion. Also, while the fuses on bombs required them to be dropped in order to arm, a cannon shell hit on a bomb would be enough to act as a detonator.

Stafroty
10-23-2007, 09:40 PM
if plane is burning already.. how can vapours create? Plane is movin fast, as cloud of vapours are left behind, yet, it isnt so effective, check the videos of crashes. if vapours fill plane and plane explode after there is just perfect mixture, filled from wingtip to wingtip, cockpit to tail and engine, then ignites, what is thrown at own aircraft to damage it so bad? will aluminium plane fly so fast? have you ever blown up like cannister of deodorant or such? or barrel with gas?

where you get bomb in plane which does not have one?? is there hidden bomb in every figter?

Finnish plane, if i remember Brewster was hit on bottom, under pilot seat, right on Oxygen bottle, with cannon calibre AA fire. Bottle and round exploded, and teared hole under the pilot on his cockpit. he was still able to fly his plane at home.

so Oxy bottle isnt enougth , yet we all know how much E they pack in themselfs.. YEt pressure escaped from bottom.

its like tincan opening and lettin pressure out.

Just check 30mm hit/explosion picture on british bomber, it just opens it up, not throwing parts there and there..
Just like when you open can with can opener and lift the lid.

in hollywood films you see cars explode where bumbers bit touch eachothers or such, its not like that in real, for real, believe me.

VW-IceFire
10-23-2007, 09:42 PM
Originally posted by Stafroty:
Icefire, lets make it this way, Explain us what there is exploding in a way like we feel it in game? is it realistic, explain what is going off with so hard power and how it is possible.

As you explain me the reasons, i will ask you more about the issue, on things i dont understand. ok?
I think I've been blown up or damaged by an exploding plane once in the last year of playing (and I play allot). You say this is too much?

And I'm still asking the question http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Wepps
10-23-2007, 10:01 PM
Quit screwin around and just shoot the wing off.

Stafroty
10-23-2007, 10:02 PM
ive been destroyed many times in a week.

Zoom2136
10-24-2007, 08:10 AM
O.K. just a few facts....

Most of the time when fuel is ignited you get COMBUSTION meaning a subsonic flame... pressure can build causing mechanical failure due to excessive pressure and heat.... But no where near the explosion we have in game...

On occasion where the PROPER MIX of fuel vapor and air (even more so if its pure oxygen (as oxygen + petroleum product = flame)) you get an EXPLOSION meaning a SUPERSONIC flame which causes a shockwave which in turn will cause catastrophic failures of mechanical components.... But you need the proper mix... in a fuel tank were only fuel vapor exits... guess what.... no explosion... because you got fuel but no AIR... to allow for the combustion....

The most realistic explosion in this game is when you get hit... then flame... fly a bit then BOOOMMMM.... This is realistic as the gas tank is puncture... air gets in and when the proper mix of air and fuel is meet.... BOOOMMMM...

Instant explosion should be really rare...

IN GAME

On the rare occasion that ordinance is hit... we could have an explosion.... I'm up for that and it adds to the WOW factor... But this is not the issue here... We are talking about fuel tank hits and its effect...

As we have it now... hit a fuel tank AND BOOOOOOOMMMMMMM he is out of here EVERY TIME.... not to realistic....

We should have more or the large fire... failure of the fuel tank that snaps the wing main spar which in turns foils the wings and down he goes.... Not the BOOOOOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMM he's dead I'm dead as we have it.... Damage to the attaking plane should be more from flying debris and shrapnel than from the shockwave IMHO...

And my "mini nuke" comments was in regards of MK108 hitting the ground.... talk about over modeled visuals....

BTW Oleg stated that SOW-BOB will have no Hollywood style explosion so we can expect to see more realistic effects....

Daiichidoku
10-24-2007, 08:39 AM
"BLUE SKIES: THE AUTOBIOGRAPHY OF A CANADIAN SPITFIRE PILOT IN WORLD WAR II." by bill olmstead, ISBN 7737-2159-2.CIP ,

he states that during an air battle over belgium or holland, he blasted a 109 from 80 yards distance

the 109 blew up instantly, he recalls, and that he was very concerned...the 109 pilots body parts were striking the leading edge of his wings!
the leadign edges were dented in and blunted, but the spit recieved no other damge, despite the 'splodin 109 at 80 yards, roughly equivalent to 80 meters