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Foxtrot-Hotel
02-21-2005, 07:58 AM
has anybody more info about this planes of VVS??
all I know is, that it's used for artillery direction, and spotting, and that the reargunner had a shvak 7,7mm MG.
I would like to know if the plane still got the front armament, and if It could carry bombs, which version of the hurri was converted this way...any Info would be cool, thanks in advance:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/KingFab/hurrcanexijb_1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v651/KingFab/hurricane2seater41.jpg

jurinko
02-21-2005, 08:05 AM
i can check in my books when home. the reason was, hurri was helpless against german fighters in 1942 so that was just a desperate countermeasure. the flying characteristics were however awfull in such a modification.

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-21-2005, 03:12 PM
I can only imagine how the performance suffers when you have an open cockpit where a closed on should be, an extra crewman, and an extra gun with ammo,and extra equpiment...

-HH-Dubbo
02-21-2005, 11:58 PM
But a cool discovery, just the same.....

ClnlSandersLite
02-22-2005, 12:37 AM
In both pictures, the hurrican clearly is missing it's forward armament. It's apparently not supposed to be used as a fighter as the initial post said.

jurinko
02-22-2005, 12:49 AM
ok i checked it in the book "Triumph and Tragedy" abouit WWII VVS fighters. War-weary Hurries were rather slow and to be better protected, staff of 488. IAP installed in few Mk.IIB the second seat for the gunner with Shkas or UB(T) machinegun. The handling of two-seater version was poor however.

MajorBloodnok
02-22-2005, 06:34 AM
They could have saved themselves the bother by just buying some MoD surplus Faery Battles instead http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-22-2005, 08:25 AM
thanks for the additionla info,sitting in this bird can't be much worse than sitting in a U2...

SlickStick
02-22-2005, 08:28 AM
Although, this Hurri looks like it would be fun for two, I have my reservations about being so exposed in the rear gunner position.

No armor, no thick glass...nothing to protect me from a hail of bullets. That gun surely doesn't look big enough to hide behind, either. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Colonel mentioned not seeing forward armament in the pics, but if they were Hurri IIBs, the 12 .303s are in the wings. However, a rear view and a profile drawing may not be depicting them correctly.

ClnlSandersLite
02-22-2005, 08:47 PM
Given the tendacy of the soviet union to not totally repaint lend lease aircraft, it's either a stripped mkIIc or a mkIIa (maybe stripped, maybe not). The screenshot Hurricane is painted like a mkIIc, although the cannons are not apparent which means that it would have to be stripped. In the hand drawn profile, it is painted as a mkIIa. If the gunports are not shown, it is due to an error in the picture as they should be slightly visible, perhaps though they are stripped. It is most definately not a IIb as: A. it's painted wrong in both pictures and B. if it does have forward armament, the outer wing .30 cals (which are not flush) are stripped. In any case, the aircraft is missing the red boxes that the RAAF painted around their gun ports in both pictures. I'll see what I can dig up about this aircraft tonight.

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 04:51 AM
I haven't found **** on this. I was looking for a list of hurricane SNs that would tell us what it is, assuming that the serials on the pics aren't made up. I have a printed version somewhere (book) but for the life of me, I can't find it or even remember what book it was. Using google, I did find such a list of hurricanes made in canada, but not the UK. Maybe if you told us where that render came from it'd help?

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-23-2005, 04:57 AM
no Idea where the first pic is from, but the second one is from here:
http://www.il2center.com/Allied/UK/05/Index.html

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 05:24 AM
Just figured it out. The hurricane in the top picture is a hurricane mk XI which is a canadian built mkII. (would have to be an A as it's missing the protruding .30 cals on the outer wings, or stripped) It's paint scheme is wrong as that particular scheme is a late war scheme and the hurricanes pictured above are supposed to be 1942. The bottom picture says it's a mkII and is painted like a mkIIa. The serials on the craft (both) I believe are also wrong. Possibly renumbered by the VVS, but I doubt it. Which is actually correct as to the model, I'm not sure. The mk XI or the mk II. Honestly doesn't matter though as they where the same thing. I found somewhere that there where only like 20 of these converted. Either they are stripped of forward armament, no outer wing .30s and no red boxes, or they are the A varient and the profile artist was stupid. If I where a betting man, I'd say they're stripped due to the cockpit changes. Also since it's supposed to spot for artillery units, it's job in a fight would be to run like hell, not dogfight or do ground attack missions so there would be no need for the forward armament and it would just slow it down. Take a look at this link to see what I mean about the pattern hurri pic (http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=727604&size=L&sok=JURER%20%20[nvepensg%20%3D%20%27Unjxre%20Uheevpnar%20Zx.11%27% 29%20%20BEQRE%20OL%20cubgb_vq%20QRFP&photo_nr=1).

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-23-2005, 05:30 AM
I wasn't sure I they might be used as G-attack a/c too, if not, you're right, no need for a forward armament, I also read that only 20 where build, but this plane interrested me, because I never heared of that before...thanks for your help.

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 05:33 AM
np, you may want to see if another person comes up with something better. I'm betting that I've just about nailed it though.

Engrs
02-23-2005, 07:24 AM
IIRC they were used as mail planes for a short period late, and post war. But proved unsuccessful.

KG26_Oranje
02-23-2005, 02:33 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/KG26Oranje/Hurricanedualseattrainer.jpg

Hurricane MK-XII/trop (MK-IIC/trop) Dual seat Trainer , made in Canada.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/KG26Oranje/HurricaneFieldmod.jpg

Hurricane MK-XII? Dual seat field mod , made in Canada as above , and modified by Russia.
The X stands for , made in Canada.

S! I/KG26_Oranje

Foxtrot-Hotel
02-23-2005, 03:28 PM
I already knew the 2 pics, but thank you anywhay for ya efforts....

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 04:47 PM
It could be based on the trainer varient. It'd make the conversion easier, doubtless. but it still would have required extensive modification to the rear gunners area.

Engrs
02-23-2005, 04:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KG26_Oranje:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/KG26Oranje/Hurricanedualseattrainer.jpg

Hurricane MK-XII/trop (MK-IIC/trop) Dual seat Trainer , made in Canada.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v735/KG26Oranje/HurricaneFieldmod.jpg

Hurricane MK-XII? Dual seat field mod , made in Canada as above , and modified by Russia.
The X stands for , made in Canada.

S! I/KG26_Oranje <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The top pic I believe depicts one of two made for the Iranian Airforce and delivered in 1946. More in the link, also mentions soviet conversions.

http://www.faqs.org/docs/air/avhurr.html

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 08:21 PM
Well, the SN on the 2 seat trainer pic is a funky foriegn language. Arabic?

ClnlSandersLite
02-23-2005, 08:27 PM
It not the iranian 2 seat trainer. Take a look down under the heading "5] SEA HURRICANE / UNUSUAL VARIANTS & MODIFICATIONS". There is a picture of the profile of this aircraft.

edit: Well, it COULD be. Below that it mentions the second seats canopy bieng added shortly after due to buffeting. Not sure either way.