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killer2359
11-28-2004, 12:32 AM
I've got a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Jostick and initially had HUGE problems with the controls being terribly jumpy - which made lining up shots all but impossible and the game virtually unusable. I'm now playing fine and am a happy camper so thought I'd pass on some info for other Logitech users.

With patch 3.02 things are drastically improved - it seems to me that the volatility of the dynamic trim changes has been toned down (the whole FM feels more "right" in general) - so get 3.02 in asap if you already don't have it.

Next info regards the Logitech Profiler - if it's turned off then your joystick may act up severely in PF (ie. off axis spikes, bias in random directions etc.) - to make sure the Profiler is running go to the joystick screen from Control Panel then click properties then click the About tab then click on Logitech Profiler. Once activated (after not having been operating) the Profiler may put an icon in the system tray - you can turn this icon off.

And finally, here are the axis maps I use in PF - this is with all settings default in the Profiler (ie. no messing with deadband or sensitivity) - this is with Logitech Extreme 3D Pro:
PITCH: 25 31 38 45 51 58 65 72 79 88
ROLL: 20 28 37 45 54 63 72 81 90 100
YAW: 30 37 44 52 59 67 75 83 91 100

Filtering and deadband zero for all axes.

The interesting thing about these maps is that they're the OPPOSITE of what you're instinctively likely to try in order to correct what feels like oversensitivity - in fact what happens with the logitech is that if the MIN values are too low then you get very little initial response so automatically you keep moving the controller more then "bang" you suddenly get a heap of control input with a resultant overcontrol. The trick is setting MIN values that give the correct IMMEDIATE response - then set a comfortable MAX and make everything else linear between the two.

Hope this helps

Tully__
11-28-2004, 12:40 AM
More info on joystick settings, click on the "Joysticks & FB" link under my signature picture.

_1SMV_Pet
11-28-2004, 03:04 AM
I've 5 Logitech Joysticks (2 Attack3, 2 Extreme 3D pro and one Freedom 2.4).
Now i'm using the cordless joystick because all other have failed after 11-25 days from first installation. Always the same problem: "terribly jumpy" and difficulty to rolling to the right.

The Freedom 2.4 is a little better then other models but is still jumpy and it becames extremely responsive after going into standby mode (after resuming from standby i have to calibrate it again and keep pushing buttons to prevent stand-by).
Obviously i'm going to buy a new Joystick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Next info regards the Logitech Profiler - if it's turned off then your joystick may act up severely in PF (ie. off axis spikes, bias in random directions etc.) - to make sure the Profiler is running go to the joystick screen from Control Panel then click properties then click the About tab then click on Logitech Profiler. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's true?
If L0g1t3ch Profiler is running the joystik works better??

_1SMV_Pet
11-28-2004, 03:08 AM
My settings
X= 3 7 12 18 26 35 47 58 74 95
Y= 4 8 13 20 30 42 55 70 85 100
Z= 10 20 30 40 50 60 70 80 90 100

Steinhagen
11-28-2004, 04:22 AM
I have this same problem with my Ex3D Pro. I had it with another Logicrap controller as well. It's beyond frustrating. It seems that once you throw your fighter around one too many hard turns the Logitech just calls it quits.

leothepilot
11-28-2004, 04:49 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _1SMV_Pet:
I've 5 Logitech Joysticks (2 Attack3, 2 Extreme 3D pro and one Freedom 2.4).
Now i'm using the cordless joystick because all other have failed after 11-25 days from first installation. Always the same problem: "terribly jumpy" and difficulty to rolling to the right.

The Freedom 2.4 is a little better then other models but is still jumpy and it becames extremely responsive after going into standby mode (after resuming from standby i have to calibrate it again and keep pushing buttons to prevent stand-by).
Obviously i'm going to buy a new Joystick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Next info regards the Logitech Profiler - if it's turned off then your joystick may act up severely in PF (ie. off axis spikes, bias in random directions etc.) - to make sure the Profiler is running go to the joystick screen from Control Panel then click properties then click the About tab then click on Logitech Profiler. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's true?
If L0g1t3ch Profiler is running the joystik works better?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have Freadom 2.4
_1SMV_Pet, check this page for cofeine utility, I hope you enjoy it: http://www.wingmanteam.com/latest_software/gadgets.htm
BTW I made power connector to my Freadom 2.4 elecrical cheme via USB 5v and now no problems with baterys - no replace, no charge no baterys... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

killer2359
11-28-2004, 05:14 AM
Well I've been hammering my Logitech Extreme 3D Pro for just under a year and had no problems (feels as good as new today) except when I turned the Logitech Profiler off - after which it had really jumpy centre and spikes and uneven axis response (ie. would seem offset and when moving in one direction would spike hard the other way first). If I hadn't just messed with the profiler I'd have sworn it was worn out / dying.

I turned the profiler back on and it came completely good again.

No guarantees for other people but that's my experience.

_1SMV_Pet
11-28-2004, 06:50 AM
Ok, thanks.
I'll try the Profiler.

Also my Freedom 2.4 is USB powered.
Cordless controller with power-cord! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

m.manson2004
11-28-2004, 07:14 AM
the correct settings are as follows,

you pick it up,walk to the closest outdoor dump and drop it.You then get on line and order a decent joystick.We've all learnt the hard way.
manson

killer2359
11-28-2004, 08:39 AM
m.manson2004 - if you didn't try activating the profiler then you probably threw away a perfectly good joystick.

_1_SMV_Pet - :-) the irony of that wasn't lost on me - I reckon they should have made the cordless joysticks rechargeable - with a docking station you park it on when not in use. I have the MX Cordless Duo (mouse and keyboard) and they're excellent - the keyboard has lasted 6 months already on the first battery and the mouse can last a couple of days of CONSTANT (well, for 18hours a day anyway) use before giving a charge warning (normally I park it on it's charger base overnight of course).

I find the Logitech Extreme 3D joystick excellent to use - especially when the system is configured correctly...

R_Target
11-28-2004, 09:08 AM
Heh, I've been taking mine apart and spraying WD-40 in the pot that controls the roll axis. I'll have to try that in conjunction w/ the Profiler. This thing is truly a pain.

killer2359
11-28-2004, 09:24 AM
Well I'd definitely try the profiler - like I said before, mine went from working perfectly to having ***wait for it... wait for it*** screwed up roll axis plus buggered centering (spiking all over the place) when I turned off the profiler - so I turned it back on and *bingo* good as gold again.... yep, I'd definitely try the profiler.

erm,... I just relised that perhaps I should point out that to me it looks like the Logitech Profiler is basically the Joystick driver - or at least in the case of PF is critical to correct signals reaching the game.

SkyChimp
11-28-2004, 09:27 AM
I've got the Extreme 3D Pro and have had EXACTLY the same problem as you guys. Due to the number of complaints, I seriously doubt its a hardware issue. The game (or patch) seems to be corrupting the calibration. Unplugging from the USB, then plugging right back in again seems to immediately fix the problem.

I like Logitech sticks, but they do wear out fast. I go through one every couple of years. But my Extreme is brand new (replacement for my sorry X45 hotas) so I'm sure it's not worn out yet.

I like Logitech because they are heavy and ergonomically more sound than other sticks I've tried. The X45 has to be thge most unconfortable stick on the market. And If you don't have girl-hands, its entirely too small.

killer2359
11-28-2004, 09:29 AM
SkyChimp - I thought activating Profiler had worked for you?

Maple_Tiger
11-28-2004, 09:50 AM
I have my profiler turned off. I realy have no use for it. Doesn't have anything to do with how the joystick behaves, in regards to pitch sensitvity?

Maple_Tiger
11-28-2004, 09:55 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killer2359:
I've got a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Jostick and initially had HUGE problems with the controls being terribly jumpy - which made lining up shots all but impossible and the game virtually unusable. I'm now playing fine and am a happy camper so thought I'd pass on some info for other Logitech users.

With patch 3.02 things are drastically improved - it seems to me that the volatility of the dynamic trim changes has been toned down (the whole FM feels more "right" in general) - so get 3.02 in asap if you already don't have it.

Next info regards the Logitech Profiler - if it's turned off then your joystick may act up severely in PF (ie. off axis spikes, bias in random directions etc.) - to make sure the Profiler is running go to the joystick screen from Control Panel then click properties then click the About tab then click on Logitech Profiler. Once activated (after not having been operating) the Profiler may put an icon in the system tray - you can turn this icon off.

And finally, here are the axis maps I use in PF - this is with all settings default in the Profiler (ie. no messing with deadband or sensitivity) - this is with Logitech Extreme 3D Pro:
PITCH: 25 31 38 45 51 58 65 72 79 88
ROLL: 20 28 37 45 54 63 72 81 90 100
YAW: 30 37 44 52 59 67 75 83 91 100

Filtering and deadband zero for all axes.

The interesting thing about these maps is that they're the OPPOSITE of what you're instinctively likely to try in order to correct what feels like oversensitivity - in fact what happens with the logitech is that if the MIN values are too low then you get very little initial response so automatically you keep moving the controller more then "bang" you suddenly get a heap of control input with a resultant overcontrol. The trick is setting MIN values that give the correct IMMEDIATE response - then set a comfortable MAX and make everything else linear between the two.

Hope this helps <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>



Thats what was happing to me also. one minute I'm nicley pulling back on the stick for a shot, and all of a sudden there is way too much pitch.

Lav69
11-28-2004, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by _1SMV_Pet:
I've 5 Logitech Joysticks (2 Attack3, 2 Extreme 3D pro and one Freedom 2.4).
Now i'm using the cordless joystick because all other have failed after 11-25 days from first installation. Always the same problem: "terribly jumpy" and difficulty to rolling to the right.

The Freedom 2.4 is a little better then other models but is still jumpy and it becames extremely responsive after going into standby mode (after resuming from standby i have to calibrate it again and keep pushing buttons to prevent stand-by).
Obviously i'm going to buy a new Joystick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Next info regards the Logitech Profiler - if it's turned off then your joystick may act up severely in PF (ie. off axis spikes, bias in random directions etc.) - to make sure the Profiler is running go to the joystick screen from Control Panel then click properties then click the About tab then click on Logitech Profiler. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's true?
If L0g1t3ch Profiler is running the joystik works better?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, after the first couple tries with Logitech did it occur to you to try another brand? I don't know I may be a little stupid here, but....???

SkyChimp
11-28-2004, 10:04 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killer2359:
SkyChimp - I thought activating Profiler had worked for you? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I turned it on and checked calibratiuon. Left it on and played PF and it worked fine. Soon, started having the same old problems again. Now just before I play PF, I unplug and replug my joystick. That's worked fine so far.

killer2359
11-28-2004, 10:27 AM
SkyChimp - Aww - nuts - I'd hoped that was a good fix for you - at least you got it working tho with the replug system - when you say after a while the problem came back do you mean during play or in subsequent sessions? - did the problems recur after having closed down and rebooted the computer - on my system profiler evidently starts up during XP boot but perhaps it's not starting up each time on yours?

There's another option then for people if the profiler doesn't seem to work or only works temporarily - just do a quick unplug/replug of the joystick cable.

Lav69 - I think you've identified YOUR problem precisely.

killer2359
11-28-2004, 10:32 AM
Maple_Tiger - has my mapping suggestion helped? (hope so) - I should make it clear that I started messing seriously with these maps to refine the control AFTER I'd installed the 3.02 patch and subsequently had basically controllable airplanes with the default maps - which previously I hadn't no matter what maps I tried. I still suspect there was a problem with FM and control inputs being added to trimmed values that the patch has fixed - nonetheless, whatever the case it's all working fine for me now - and the final refinement to a very precise level of control (for me) has been acheived by using those fairly large minimum values as I described.

SkyChimp
11-28-2004, 10:34 AM
It seems it's ok during the first round of play. If I close down PF and then restart it (no reboot in between), then it gets corrupted.

If I reboot between PF sessions, it's ok.

Maple_Tiger
11-28-2004, 11:35 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by killer2359:
Maple_Tiger - has my mapping suggestion helped? (hope so) - I should make it clear that I started messing seriously with these maps to refine the control AFTER I'd installed the 3.02 patch and subsequently had basically controllable airplanes with the default maps - which previously I hadn't no matter what maps I tried. I still suspect there was a problem with FM and control inputs being added to trimmed values that the patch has fixed - nonetheless, whatever the case it's all working fine for me now - and the final refinement to a very precise level of control (for me) has been acheived by using those fairly large minimum values as I described. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


Actualy, I tride Olegs settings(1 4 8 15 24 33 44 60 77 100) and it was just as horrid as the default. However, I did try the authers settings, wich are, in a way, similer to you'rs.

22 28 37 45 54 65 77 88 97.


I think you guys have somthing going here. I didn't have any issues with way too much pitch whening lining up a shot.

_1SMV_Pet
11-28-2004, 12:21 PM
Lav69:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>
Ummm, after the first couple tries with Logitech did it occur to you to try another brand? I don't know I may be a little stupid here, but....??? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

<span class="ev_code_YELLOW">OBVIOUSLY</span> i've bought only the first joystick, the others (Freedom 2.4 included) were sent by Logitech's customer support.
--------

I've tried the profiler (first i've removed the joy).

Seems (i repeat, seems) to work but you need to keep it running. No need to use the profile included, just keep it running.
Maybe it acts as a sort of filter....
i think i'll try it with my extra faulty Attack3.

Yes, the Profiler is ugly (have you heard the buttons test's sounds?? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif ) but, when they works, Extreme 3D pro and Freedom 2.4 are pretty good joysticks.

NORAD_Zooly10
11-28-2004, 12:36 PM
I owe you thanks Maple_Tiger, i thought my joystick was on its way out (logitech wingman force 3d) with the settings you posted things are working fine now.
~S~
Zooly

Maple_Tiger
11-28-2004, 01:15 PM
Don't thank me, thank Tully...

I'll post this link that Tully was nice enough to give us.

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm

Ankanor
11-28-2004, 01:22 PM
Can somebody enlighten me about the "cycling command"? Is it any good? Thanks http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

NORAD_Zooly10
11-29-2004, 10:37 AM
Thank you Tully http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif
~S~
Zooly

NORAD_NITRO
11-29-2004, 11:06 AM
Thanks Killer works like a charm. Cured the shakes for the sober times I fly, the beer takes care of the rest LOL ~S~

Pzyber
11-29-2004, 11:18 AM
Try uninstalling the joystick and calibrate it manually, it worked for me http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I think its a problem with the joysticks' autocalibration that is used by the profiler.

If you unplug your joystick and insert it again and press alt tab to tab out from the game and then go into it again and it will work again.

When i was on an il-2 lan party i was needed to uplug my joystick almost every minute while flying a He-111 with my other hand http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Maple_Tiger
11-29-2004, 03:32 PM
Here are Maples current Pitch settings for his Logitech Extreme 3D Pro.

40 42 43 47 52 58 65 74 84 95

Seems pretty darn smooth so far. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

s.bush
11-30-2004, 02:04 AM
So now to play PF we have to...

Unplug and plug, reboot,change video and other settings in the config and set up then get into the game and fine tune,go down to the hardware store and purchase more equipment, back and hope matters will improve,they dont!! so start fiddling again until midnight post more queries on the various forums and then go to sleep.Wow!! what a lovely and rewarding hobby
goodnight
bush

Maple_Tiger
11-30-2004, 05:06 AM
You shouldn't have to unplug and plug and stuff. Atleast I don't have to. Calibrate it before you use it. But then, I'm such a noob with joysticks anyway. What would I know. I'm not kidding...

_1SMV_Pet
11-30-2004, 10:16 AM
Logitech joysticks works fine only for 10-20 days (in this period you can avoid to install Profiler and use MS drivers).

The Profiler does a sort of "non stop automatic calibration" and seems to act as a filter.

With profiler running i can play PF with my old (few months!!) crazy Extreme 3D Pro.

with the profiler the Joystick becomes more smooth so i've needed change my input settings (now they are more "aggressive").

Anyway a good stick should work correctly even if the profiler isn't running, but we can't choose.

lascapa
11-30-2004, 10:34 AM
Where exactly do you enter the settings? Yes, I am new at this. lol I bought the game and the Logitech 3D Extreme joystick this past weekend.
Thanks for your help.

Lascapa

killer2359
11-30-2004, 09:58 PM
lascapa - from the main menu screen in the game, click on Hardware Setup and then Input.

Also have a good look thru the manual as I think it explains the menus as well.

These settings for pitch control are "in game" settings and the whole reason I've brought them up is that the best settings FOR LOGITECH EXTREME 3D PRO (I make no claim/guarantee for any other Logitech type or other brand) end up being surprisingly large at the lower end of the control "map" which on the face of it seems a strange way of countering what feels like oversensitivity (but this is in fact a lack of sensitivity - thus large minimum map values).

- the business about the Logitech Profiler is another issue all together - to do with erratic joystick behaviour, not the control settings.

For the record I don't think the Profiler corrects for joystick faults or breakdown at all - I think the profiler is required to be active for the driver to function properly - whether this is a continuous process or just related to some sort of calibration process that takes place when an application (ie. such as a game) connects to the device I'm not sure. For some people, having the Profiler running is not the fix (sadly) - for others such as myself the joystick runs flawlessly with no need for manual calibration or any other interference AS LONG AS LOGITECH PROFILER IS RUNNING - in my case if it's turned off then there are sloppy center symptoms, off center spikes and loss of roll axis in one direction or the other.

Tully__
12-01-2004, 05:19 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
Don't thank me, thank Tully...

I'll post this link that Tully was nice enough to give us.

http://www.airwarfare.com/tech/sticks.htm <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may have written it, but thank also EURO_Snoopy for hosting it on his www.airwarfare.com (http://www.airwarfare.com) site.

lascapa
12-01-2004, 05:37 AM
Thanks for your help guys!
Any suggestions on button setup for a beginner. It does seem to help.

I think I am going to go and buy the FB gold pack today. EB Games has it for $19.95

Thanks

walsh2509
12-01-2004, 06:25 AM
I ended up unpluging my Logitech Digital 3D Wingman Extreme. I was getting strange movement off of it, the rudder twist was well off and when I twisted the stick or pushed it over to the left towards the metal throttle at the base of the stick my engine power would go down..

I stated to use my Logitech Remote Rumble Pads and it take a bit of getting used to but I can fly with the left analog stick , but the only thing is when I use the Right Analog stick (rudder) again moving this rudder stick right or left brings my power away down?

With the Joystick I thought becasue I was twisting the stick or leaning it over to the left and thus partly touching the base next to the metal throttle control , that this had something to do with it. But it happens even when I use the rudder (right analog stick) on the game pad.

With the joystick in "input" the green marker was not centred and the red one that I guess should have been under the green one , if it was centred was further off away from the green one. It was the same in the rudder section.

But with the gamepad, the green and red markers were centred and so were the rudders ones.

I put down the engine power loss to the fact that the joystick was well off centre both in axis and rudder, but when it still happened with the gamepad whose axis and rudder were true centred, this got me thinking that was it all Logitech products and could not run with this game?

anyone know or have a good guess why when I move the rudder Joystick or Gamepad the engine power drops Ive had it up at 100% and as soon as I move the rudder it drops to around 56%.

R_Target
12-01-2004, 09:17 AM
Is there a brand and model of stick that has the same "tight" feel of the Logitech? I tried my brother's Saitek Cyborg Evo and it was terrible.