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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:29 PM
After hearing news of the patch I figured I better get some time in with this sim - I've had it for so long but never really got into it but I'm determined to get my $50 worth! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway I reinstalled last night and did the first single player mission, where you fly the I-153 and attack the artillery position.

I only got the plane off the ground twice - and of course I didn't get the target because I aimed the rockets all crappy. But my real problem is takeoff.

I've got a decent setup - full CH rig; CombatStick, Pro Pedals and Pro throttle. I smoothly apply throttle, gain speed, applying right rudder to hold steady down the grass runway but as soon as I go to get the wheels off the deck the plane lurches left or right and I crash almost immediately! The times that I did get the plane off the ground I should have crashed - the plane lurched to the side but I was somehow managing to get the plane into the air.

Is the tailwheel locked or something? Can someone provide some tips for getting this beast in the air?

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:29 PM
After hearing news of the patch I figured I better get some time in with this sim - I've had it for so long but never really got into it but I'm determined to get my $50 worth! http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Anyway I reinstalled last night and did the first single player mission, where you fly the I-153 and attack the artillery position.

I only got the plane off the ground twice - and of course I didn't get the target because I aimed the rockets all crappy. But my real problem is takeoff.

I've got a decent setup - full CH rig; CombatStick, Pro Pedals and Pro throttle. I smoothly apply throttle, gain speed, applying right rudder to hold steady down the grass runway but as soon as I go to get the wheels off the deck the plane lurches left or right and I crash almost immediately! The times that I did get the plane off the ground I should have crashed - the plane lurched to the side but I was somehow managing to get the plane into the air.

Is the tailwheel locked or something? Can someone provide some tips for getting this beast in the air?

Tully__
07-25-2003, 03:55 PM
These little beasts are quite a challenge on the runway.

The easiest way is:

Start the engine.

Ease the throttle up to about 40-50%

As the plane starts rolling, push the joystick all the way forward and use rudder to stay on the runway centerline.

When the tail comes off the ground (about 45-60km/h) ease the stick back to neutral. The aircraft may try to roll right at this time, but not as violently as it does if you don't hold the stick forward until the tail comes up. Counter with a bit of aileron. Don't let the tail come back down.

As you pass 80km/h, smoothly increase throttle to 65-80% (depending on fuel/munition load).

At about 160km/h, gently pull back on the stick.

Once you're off the ground, raise gear and push the throttle all the way forward.



When you get to the I-16, you'll need to use an almost identical procedure, except it's good idea to have the throttle at 100% before trying to manually raise the I-16 landing gear.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 03:56 PM
i find a big old bag of luck wedged between you and your seat pack helps, ;-)

but seriously though i just practiced lots, still screw up today though, I-153p is one of my fave planes.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:03 PM
Damn my dumb ole job!

I should be at home mastering this plane! ARRRGGGHHH...so many hours left to work.

I'll try the getting the tail off the ground idea - I did try this last night but I wound up crashing the prop into the ground. It happens so fast I can't even tell what I did wrong! I guess practice, practice, practice!!

haha, but I really liked the plane after getting it into the air. It will be a favorite of mine I'm sure.

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:07 PM
Tully's instructions are very good.
Note words like ease, smoothly, gently: Jerky or excessive control inputs are very bad for your health!

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:29 PM
The rotary engines supply a lot of torque, you need to compensate with the rudder. You can turn this off in the difficulties menu. Best this in just to stay on two wheels down the runway until reach about 180kmh (or about to the tower) then gently pull up. Lift gear as soon as off the ground, don't try and turn until you get past the runway, and remove flap (f key) at about 50M. You can also run the training senarios. The key is making sure you have enough speed, and thus lift, before attempting to leave the runway. Most new flier want to get off the ground a little to soon. -jim-

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 04:31 PM
1) Make sure you are using the runway.
2) No need to taxi with throttle over 25 - 35 %
3) I normally take off with my radiatior fully open
4) What's the weather like? It's very hard to take off in this puppy in windy conditions (22 sq mts wing surface)
5)When ready for take off, full throttle, slowly push forward on stick until level, maintain with slight rudder adjustments. As you reach the 150km area aircraft will begin to elevate with its own force, barely need to pull back. GEar UP!
6) If none of this helps I always recommend to hit Ctrl F1 until you get that no cockpit view (with horiz., speed. alt.) then F8 for your chase view. This will help you visualize how your stick movements affect your rollin down the runway, once corrected try it in your cockpit view again!

Good Luck!



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michapma
07-25-2003, 04:35 PM
The I-153 works much the same on takeoff as the I-16. The key is what Tully has mentioned, give full forward stick from the beginning of your rollout. After the tail comes up you can start easing off the pressure, and by the time you're doing 80 or 100 the stick should be all the way back. (I know the I-16 better.) Then keep on the ground until you have a good speed built up. The I-16 needs at least 150kph to be good and sure you'll stay in the air; the Tchaika is lighter and needs a bit less speed. Let the natural angle of attack control the climb instead of hauling back on the stick. You might instead put some easy forward pressure to keep the nose down and build up speed.

If you hop on the runway when going fast but not quite to your target liftoff speed, go with it and liftoff early, but work to just keep the plane off the ground&mdash;you want to build speed and not zoom into the sky, which leads to a stall.

But the rolling movement of the wings is due to the tail lifting off the ground a high speed. Getting it up early is the key.

I've made a training track for the I-16 involving taxiing, takeoff and landing. I need to edit the timing of the comments but it is otherwise ready. I will upload it later tonight on this page:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/training.htm

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 05:07 PM
I posted the same plea when FB was first released. I can confirm the advice given hear. To me, the most important thing to do is push the stick forward at the start. Happy flying.

Alexi

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XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 06:41 PM
I can confirm this too (although there doesn't seem to be much point after enough people have said it). Get the tail off the ground early, especially if you're carrying air-to-ground ordnance. It's a little more forgiving if you're going guns-only, but with bombs or rockets slung under the wings you will almost always spread yourself all over the airfield if you don't get that tail up.


---
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(If I knew who said that first, I'd give credit here.)

HL callsign: Ctrl_Eeee, the guy you just shot down

XyZspineZyX
07-25-2003, 07:03 PM
Big_Jim2000 wrote:
- and remove flap (f key) at about 50M.

What flaps???/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i never knew that the I-153 had flaps/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

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Tully__
07-25-2003, 07:07 PM
fokkerg.1 wrote:
- Big_Jim2000 wrote:
-- and remove flap (f key) at about 50M.
-
- What flaps???/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i never knew that the
- I-153 had flaps/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif



I recommend you don't use flaps on takeoff in any aircraft, except if you have absolutely maximum fuel and bomb load. There's plenty of runway to get off the ground without them and you don't have to worry about the transition to no flap flight.

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Salut
Tully


Message Edited on 07/26/0304:08AM by Tully__

michapma
07-25-2003, 09:38 PM
I'm sorry, but it looks like I can't use the track I had prepared. The track plays back fine, but the text gets all mixed up, and it's not very useful as a training track without the text. I'm very put out because I've put several hours of concentrated work and creativity into just that one training mission, and it's not working. I don't know what's wrong, but it's an online track (*.ntrk) and the comments show up at the wrong time. I tried putting a time delay in and in a first test it worked, then when I converted all the numbers (after much painful manipulation) it didn't work.

I will be working on a replacement track, and from now on I will try to use only *.trk files.

Sorry,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 12:59 AM
I-153 is easy to take off.

Cram full throttle and counter torque with aileron... hold stick forward. As soon as tail comes up, center stick and ride her out to take off speed (dont ask, i don't pay attention to dials, give it a good 10-seconds or so). Then, jerk the stick back hard and keep it that way.

you can hit full cruise speed by the time you've finshed your loop. in online play where some hot-sweaty vulch action is taking place, this gives you a bit of a fighting chance.

if you are playing single-player, forget the loop.

last thing: pull gear up instantly after leaving the ground. I-153 makes a mega-ton of lift with a tiny bit of speed... gear just induces drag and keeps you from climbing out like you should. I can out-climb the AI in an I-153 http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

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XyZspineZyX
07-26-2003, 05:32 AM
Full turn left till its running tail up
Full opposite airlerons to counter any wing dipping

is the only way to stop rockets from touching

michapma
07-29-2003, 08:35 AM
Okay, I was wrong. It seems I made a mistake in the file name, which kept it from working correctly. I still don't understand why when I made changes to the file the text in the training track changed as well, but I don't feel like figuring that out. I did have to give in a time offset because of using the online track format (ntrk).

The training track works with text, and is available for download here:
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/training.htm

Direct link to the file (679kB):
http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/downloads/training/dubnovo_i-16_training.zip

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>