View Full Version : Thoughts on Flak

12-11-2004, 10:27 PM
As I was crusing around in my Fw190A-5 online today, I neared an enemy base and I was awaiting the flak...then it hit...yes actually hit me on the first shot and knocked my elevator out, jammed one machine gun and I was trailing black smoke. I was approximately 10,000ft.

Now I'm not talking about the smaller, high rate of fire guns, but the big 75mm jobbies. Everything I read and saw indicated that flak of this type was largely set up in curtains at specific altitudes and fired up in front of aircraft formations and that fighters easily flew around the flak curtains.

Now I know the allies developed proximity fuses late in the war which might explain the uncanny accuracy if they are modelled, but I know this exists in all years.

Bottom line...is this an accurate representation of flak? Seems like there should be some altitude adjustment time, easy to evade, easy to see etc... at least at medium to high altitude.

12-12-2004, 02:23 AM
it must have been a coincidence... unless there are lots of heavy AA in the area, the chance of getting hit by one, is quite small, you can even fly with a slow airplane over that. but if one shell explodes very close to your plane, the shrapnels from the explosion will do some damage.

12-12-2004, 08:29 AM
Well flak in real life has things like gun directors, range finders, and fire control radars to aid in the coordination of a flak ring and to send fusing information to the guns. This is WW II technology I'm talking about not modern.

Using meters as the game does, below 3000m is the area for small AA guns including HMG's, 20mm, 25mm, 30mm, 37mm, 40mm. At 3000 meters and up is a good altitude for the medium size flak guns, 75mm, 3 inch (76mm), 85mm, 88mm, 90mm. Above 5000m is the domain of the heavy flak guns like 105mm, 128mm types. Maximum ceiling for a 128mm flak gun is 15,000 meters. In real life flak could ruin your day in concentration. Its the reason they went to such lenghts at mission planning and timing to try to avoid much of it. Though the most effective thing ever used was smoke screens to obsure targets in europe, which work unless you are area bombing.

P.S On a side note. The flak 38 AA gun in the game at present isn't a flak 38 2 cm, it is a flak 28 2 cm Oerlikon type. By far not the most common 2cm flak gun the Germans used.

12-12-2004, 10:41 AM
heard that germany had 55,000 flak guns, and also the aluminium used from flak was enuff for 40,000 fighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

flak is pretty harmless until it hits ya :\

12-12-2004, 10:46 AM
i just love the 88mm flak guns when your flying in a b25 & you can see the black smoke from them exploding near your craft it brings a smile to the face

12-12-2004, 02:22 PM
I think Luthier posted on the PF forum a while ago saying that the large-cal flak just uses a randomiser to put the shots within a certain vicinity of the target. Certainly they're terribly inaccurate at ground targets at least :> however a truly random system would have to allow for the first shot to hit you too.

It would be good to be able to set a 3d space for flak to use as a firing zone though.

12-12-2004, 04:20 PM
I figured from a code stand point that a randomizer would be a much more efficient way of putting flak up....at medium and high altitude, beyond the reach of smaller flak guns say 40mm and below I just can't see believe that these flak gunners can follow me around the sky at all altitudes and through all manuevers...especially when friendlies are flying through it.

I would think seeing a wall of flak put up in front of me or around me and then me making a choice as to whether to fly through it, over it or around it would be more realistic

12-14-2004, 02:21 AM
If HMS Warspite can drop a 15 inch shell on a dago Battleship 25,000 yards away on her first shot then it's not unreasonable to expect to get hit at less than 10,000ft from AAA.

Also, how do you know it was the first round fired? It was most likely just the first one that you SAW!

12-14-2004, 10:15 AM
BullDog:: <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>As I was crusing around in my Fw190A-5 online today, I neared an enemy base and I was awaiting the flak...then it hit...yes actually hit me on the first shot... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Of course this happened only one time during all your flight simming experience or you would have been posting something many times before this. On rare occasions, airfield defense flak would shoot down lone single planes that got too close, from time to time. Well done Oleg. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>and knocked my elevator out, jammed one machine gun and I was trailing black smoke. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You got very lucky.

hey, what Fw driver reports altitude in feet? Somethin fishy going down here. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

12-14-2004, 01:18 PM
Well Said Clint. Whenever this happens to me I chalk it up to the randomness of a game code. Hell, Ive had it happen where the first hit I had register on my 109 exploded my sorry **** at 5000m.

Then there is the real life experience of my grandfather preserved forever in photograph, though he is gone now, on my office wall of a B17 in his formation over Germany exploding from a flak hit just as he took the picture from his government issued camera "gun".