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trekkie951
04-25-2006, 04:05 PM
in the game i mean. i never fly the thing cuz the engine cathces fire too easily

RCAF_Irish_403
04-25-2006, 04:08 PM
The "D" model is dog that i wouldn't touch with a very long pole...at least in game

"B", "C" and "MK III" are great planes...i just miss the extra guns

han freak solo
04-25-2006, 04:09 PM
I haven't thought about it for a long, long time.

Until I saw this thread, I forgot what a P-51 was.

han freak solo
04-25-2006, 04:10 PM
BTW, welcome to the forums, trekkie951. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/touche.gif

JG53Frankyboy
04-25-2006, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by han freak solo:
I haven't thought about it for a long, long time.

Until I saw this thread, I forgot what a P-51 was.

wing looseing **** http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

VW-IceFire
04-25-2006, 04:16 PM
At present...its a horrible plane because of its stall characteristics. I just can't like it anymore...it just doesn't have what it takes to be a competent fighter. If you get into a fight with a Mustang, try as hard as you like but any serious manuevering seems to cause it to stall. I'd rather be in a Corsair or a Hellcat than a Mustang. The Mark III isn't as bad in this regard but the P-51D is just not very good.

The engine catching fire isn't a huge issue for me as the engine was fragile and was tightly fitted into the cowling. The Mustang was not a good ground pounder as the engine had so little protection.

ICDP
04-25-2006, 04:26 PM
I love the Mustang in the sim, it is probably the best dive and zoomer in the game. I have left Bf109K's in the dust during dives, it will then outrun and outzoom them in my experience. It is best to level out at around 350kph in a zoom to keep your speed. Fw190's on the otherhand are very close in fighting style to the P51, the Dora is escpeially deadly at all altitudes. If you get caught low and slow you are in big trouble.

A tip for online flying in the P51, if you cause engine or control damage on your target leave them and move on. Don't make the mistake of trying to make all your targets explode or lose wings etc. I find that most aircraft will be finished after a good few hits with the .50s. The vast majority of my kills in the P51 are aircraft that were forced to ditch after engine failure or crashed due to control failure.

On average I am taking about 15-20 .50mg hits per kill. IMHO most people complain about the "inadequate" .50 mgs because they want to see all their targets explode or desintegrate. Trust me if you get some good hits they are usually going down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

ICDP
04-25-2006, 04:31 PM
Strange IceFire, IMHO the P51 in the sim fairly good stall characteristics. It is inferior to the F6F and F4U in this regard but according to USN test this is how it was in RL.

JG5_UnKle
04-25-2006, 04:38 PM
Originally posted by ICDP:
I love the Mustang in the sim, it is probably the best dive and zoomer in the game. I have left Bf109K's in the dust during dives, it will then outrun and outzoom them in my experience. It is best to level out at around 350kph in a zoom to keep your speed. Fw190's on the otherhand are very close in fighting style to the P51, the Dora is escpeially deadly at all altitudes. If you get caught low and slow you are in big trouble.

A tip for online flying in the P51, if you cause engine or control damage on your target leave them and move on. Don't make the mistake of trying to make all your targets explode or lose wings etc. I find that most aircraft will be finished after a good few hits with the .50s. The vast majority of my kills in the P51 are aircraft that were forced to ditch after engine failure or crashed due to control failure.

On average I am taking about 15-20 .50mg hits per kill. IMHO most people complain about the "inadequate" .50 mgs because they want to see all their targets explode or desintegrate. Trust me if you get some good hits they are usually going down http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

The MkIII rules at this.

The Pony just isn't used at altitude and online fights tend to go lower. You can drag the not so smart Pony drivers down - above 7km the Pony is great, much better than Antons and 109's.

In my experience anyway

Megile_
04-25-2006, 04:44 PM
I think the P-51 is a pretty good plane

VW-IceFire
04-25-2006, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by ICDP:
Strange IceFire, IMHO the P51 in the sim fairly good stall characteristics. It is inferior to the F6F and F4U in this regard but according to USN test this is how it was in RL.
Try and reverse a roll quickly in combat...for some reason that flops you around for a while. Drives me nuts. I can't get a Corsair, Hellcat, Tempest, Focke Wulf, Spitfire, P-40 or 109 to do that on me so I stick with those http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Every so often I give the Mustang a shot but I don't like it anymore. I can't get into it and I used to argue for the Mustang being well modeled in difficulty but I'm no longer of that view.

WTE_Galway
04-25-2006, 05:44 PM
I am not a fan of merlin/griffin powered planes

TC_Stele
04-25-2006, 05:44 PM
Mk III is pure awesome. You just have to keep this thing around 400kph+ and you can hit nearly anything in a pass. Problem is you've only got the 4 .50s but you can be effective with two passes. I love flying this plane on the servers and then realizing the entire opposite team is on your tail, yet they cant grasp that they can't chase this Stang. If that ever happens, just drag them over to the home field and let your teamates pick any bandits on your six.

Brain32
04-25-2006, 05:56 PM
P51D is awsome, just get her up high, a perfect BnZ plane, and at alt you can fight with anything, disengaging is very easy, beware of the nasty wing drop stall(same as in the Tempest), just avoid slow turning on the deck with 109's that's about it...

appulluk
04-25-2006, 06:18 PM
I fly it cause Yeager flew it, and I like it. But I like it cause Yeager flew it.

:P

rovens
04-25-2006, 06:58 PM
I fly it offline all the time, mainly cos i love how it looks.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-25-2006, 07:51 PM
Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
At present...its a horrible plane because of its stall characteristics. I just can't like it anymore...it just doesn't have what it takes to be a competent fighter. If you get into a fight with a Mustang, try as hard as you like but any serious manuevering seems to cause it to stall. I'd rather be in a Corsair or a Hellcat than a Mustang. The Mark III isn't as bad in this regard but the P-51D is just not very good.

The engine catching fire isn't a huge issue for me as the engine was fragile and was tightly fitted into the cowling. The Mustang was not a good ground pounder as the engine had so little protection.

+1

The other problem is that the wings come off 2 easy.....you also black out very hard the
instant you apply elevator...great, now i'm having flashbacks

The MK III is great b/c it's so fast. As i've said b4, the "B" and "C" are excellent planes...the "D" model gets me killed

Bearcat99
04-25-2006, 08:59 PM
While I still think the P-51 is not as stable and fast as it should be..... I still like to fly it and I find that if you fly it like your life depended on it.. instead of like you were in a sim..... it is not as bad as I originally felt. I still think it should accelerate faster... and hold E better.... and not stall as easily... (It almost seems that stalls are modelled based partly on altitude... not just speed...) but I find that by keeping it fast.... picking your fight... and flying with a wingman survival is possible... You also have to shoot at or close to convergence.. it seems that the 50s on the 51 arent the same 50s as on the P-40s almost.... but it is not a total loss as a plane in this sim. You just have to be patient and take time to learn it and you may find a somewhat different P-51 than you initially thought you had.... even the D. It may not be the Pony of legend... but then again we arent the pilots of legend either....

wayno7777
04-25-2006, 09:10 PM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
It may not be the Pony of legend... but then again we arent the pilots of legend either....
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif No, I'm a legend in my own mind http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif....

AFJ_Locust
04-25-2006, 11:04 PM
Originally posted by trekkie951:
in the game i mean. i never fly the thing cuz the engine cathces fire too easily

mkIII Rules the skies

D eheee

c & b too slow

GR142_Astro
04-25-2006, 11:56 PM
Varies between Ho Hum and Garbage.

Icefire is spot on: Try a quick reversal and not only will you get an eternal hesitation, but once it comes around a flat spin is likely. Oleg and 1C simply DO NOT have the P51 corrected yet.

AFJ_Locust
04-26-2006, 12:11 AM
Agree with Astro

At least the wings dont snap off like there made out of Saltien Crackers, Well they can just not as often.

The MkIII is very nice D should be closer to III but its not even close

BigKahuna_GS
04-26-2006, 12:53 AM
S!

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________
IceFire--At present...its a horrible plane because of its stall characteristics. I just can't like it anymore...it just doesn't have what it takes to be a competent fighter. If you get into a fight with a Mustang, try as hard as you like but any serious manuevering seems to cause it to stall.
__________________________________________________ _____________________________________________


That is the number one P51 problem---poorley modeled stall qualities.
The P51 in pretty much all models wants to drop a wing and stall out even during mild manuevering. What is ironic about this is that the P51 with a 25-50% fuel load would of had much lower wing loading than a 190 and better wing loading than a 109 in the 50-75% fuel range.


__

FatBoyHK
04-26-2006, 01:47 AM
As long as you fly high and always keep your speed high, Mustang is a killer. It is the best plane for doing high speed pass, due to:
1. rock-solid stability (as long as you don't TnB Slow and Low)
2. fully-trimmable control
3. excellent high-speed agility
4. simple weapon ballistic
5. good gunsight and forward view

keep you patience and look for unsuspecting enmey. Ideally, bounce him before he know you are here. If he see you and break, don't hestiate and give it a high-deflection shot, Mustang's forward view and its 50cals ballistic will make it easy for you. After the pass, dive a little bit and extend, then climbs back to alt while heading to friendly terrority. Don't try to have another pass immediately, as a reverse will cost you too much energy.

Yes it need patience but it is very rewarding.

Kurfurst__
04-26-2006, 01:48 AM
Wing loading is a pretty meaningless figure, and has nothing to do with stall characteristics, and only indirectly related to stall speeds.

Stall characteristics are defined by the airfoil type and various aerodynamic qualities of the aircraft. The P-51 used laminar profile, and sacraficed good stall characteristics and some of the lift capabilities of the wing and airfoil to achieve good drag characteristics at high speed.

WOLFMondo
04-26-2006, 02:48 AM
Mustang MKIII is the ultimate hotrod, if it had real mens guns it would be more popular. Its great fun to go deep into enemy territory and make passes on unsuspecting planes then run like hell and do it all again. If only the Tempest.... nevermind.


Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
As long as you fly high and always keep your speed high, Mustang is a killer. It is the best plane for doing high speed pass, due to:
1. rock-solid stability (as long as you don't TnB Slow and Low)
2. fully-trimmable control
3. excellent high-speed agility
4. simple weapon ballistic
5. good gunsight and forward view


Your one of the few people to list its good points but your also the only guy on these forums I've seen fly the '51 regularly and your always successful with it, as is Tenato. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Monson74
04-26-2006, 02:55 AM
You just have to learn how to use it. Ask Fatboy, ask Guard - if you plan to survive your online sortie you should pick a P-51. It's fast, well armed, agile at high speed (unlike the 109s) & it gets better the higher you go (unlike the 190s). It's not a Spit or a Yak so don't throw yourself into a furball - use hit & run tactics & keep the engine cool so you can run home at 110% when you're out of alt. Oh - one more thing: Range - the 51 has awesome range wich is often underestimated by onliners - get yourself a good large mug of coffee & climb to 6.5k & you can spend at least an hour up there harassing blue down below & escaping back up again.

FatBoyHK
04-26-2006, 04:02 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Your one of the few people to list its good points but your also the only guy on these forums I've seen fly the '51 regularly and your always successful with it, as is Tenato. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Tenato is still a padawan on a Mustang lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am not any kind of master either. Try to record a ntrk when LLv34_Mokkeri is flying on WC.

But i miss Mantis the most...

HotelBushranger
04-26-2006, 07:03 AM
I love it. The problem is more people hear the stories that they wanna hear, and try to replicate that online, trying to dogfight Spitfire +25s an La-7s, at about 300 kmh. And they get completely cr@pped on. Start the fight with a alt advantage, only make turns and hard manouvers at 400-500kmh, here (especially around 500kmh) the Mustang is actually very agile. People just don't spend the time learning how to fly it properly and suffer, then bugger off back to La-7s http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
At I dewinged a Spitfire nice n clean last nice nice n close, so only my starboard guns actually hit and still got took his wings off http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

luftluuver
04-26-2006, 08:01 AM
Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Wing loading is a pretty meaningless figure, and has nothing to do with stall characteristics, and only indirectly related to stall speeds.

Stall characteristics are defined by the airfoil type and various aerodynamic qualities of the aircraft. The P-51 used laminar profile, and sacraficed good stall characteristics and some of the lift capabilities of the wing and airfoil to achieve good drag characteristics at high speed. A mild manuever should not cause a departure from a stable controlled flight.

The loss of wings is rather bogus. The problem was fixed, besides the A-36, a dive bomber, did not loose its wings.

edgflyer
04-26-2006, 08:14 AM
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. And I have said this before and provedit, the e-retension is not correct. When you make a turn the energy goes bye bye way to fast. Other wise, flying it with some practice, you can do alot with it. I have several times gone into turn fights with spits, 109, Yaks and come out the Victor. Take some time to learn it and walla. You will love it. I just wish the e-retension would be fixed.

Oh and one other thing. Stop trying to turn it at a 90 deg bank and the plane will stop the snap stall and yet turn faster. My only hint today.

WWMaxGunz
04-26-2006, 08:38 AM
Some one or group sent in P-51 data on stick pull per G force and we have P-51 that does
require a very fine touch, thumb and finger type control not wrapped fist with attention
fixated on the target.

How ya gonna not spin if you don't even see the stall comin?

EVERY plane in the sim it takes flying it *as it is* to find the turns inside of stall.
If you fly it like another sim or by what you read then you won't learn the plane.

I wonder what shape the P-51 wings have for the lift coefficient with AOA? Or how high is
that AOA of the thin wing of P-51, the price of speed. IMHO the wing has variation in the
shape and twist that should some parts stall early and produce overall less sharp drop but
with overall lower critical AOA?

WOLFMondo
04-26-2006, 08:56 AM
Originally posted by FatBoyHK:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
Your one of the few people to list its good points but your also the only guy on these forums I've seen fly the '51 regularly and your always successful with it, as is Tenato. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Tenato is still a padawan on a Mustang lol http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

I am not any kind of master either. Try to record a ntrk when LLv34_Mokkeri is flying on WC.

But i miss Mantis the most... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your too modest :P Its nice to see Mustangs flown well, even if I've been on the receiving end of it!

edgflyer
04-26-2006, 09:10 AM
How ya gonna not spin if you don't even see the stall comin?

You do know when it is comming from the sound. When you hear the wind and the plane starts to vibrate during a turn, then get ready for the spin or let up alittle. I also spent alot of time working on my controls to take away the finger tip control to bring the stick movement back to what is in real life.

LilHorse
04-26-2006, 10:10 AM
Originally posted by luftluuver:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kurfurst__:
Wing loading is a pretty meaningless figure, and has nothing to do with stall characteristics, and only indirectly related to stall speeds.

Stall characteristics are defined by the airfoil type and various aerodynamic qualities of the aircraft. The P-51 used laminar profile, and sacraficed good stall characteristics and some of the lift capabilities of the wing and airfoil to achieve good drag characteristics at high speed. A mild manuever should not cause a departure from a stable controlled flight.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not if you're going fast enough it shouldn't. But I'd venture to say that trying to do too much with the Stang even at 400kph (about 250mph) is too slow. The P-51 would hemorrhage E if any manuvers were attempted at such speeds. Best probably to keep it moving between 500kph and 600kph while in combat.

And even then there is always the danger with the laminar flow wing of an accelerated stall in any violent manuvers. Probably best to stick to nice smooth inputs.

Xiolablu3
04-26-2006, 10:23 AM
Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect.

Vipez-
04-26-2006, 10:29 AM
Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
At present...its a horrible plane because of its stall characteristics. I just can't like it anymore...it just doesn't have what it takes to be a competent fighter. If you get into a fight with a Mustang, try as hard as you like but any serious manuevering seems to cause it to stall. I'd rather be in a Corsair or a Hellcat than a Mustang. The Mark III isn't as bad in this regard but the P-51D is just not very good.

The engine catching fire isn't a huge issue for me as the engine was fragile and was tightly fitted into the cowling. The Mustang was not a good ground pounder as the engine had so little protection.

+1

The other problem is that the wings come off 2 easy.....you also black out very hard the
instant you apply elevator...great, now i'm having flashbacks

The MK III is great b/c it's so fast. As i've said b4, the "B" and "C" are excellent planes...the "D" model gets me killed </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently you are not aware that every plane in this simulation has same point, where the pilot black outs if you pull enough Gs. The problem still is, that Mustang has slightly too good elevator authority. Apparently it should be lowered, so would get less Mustang-complainers complaing why they lost wings at 15G instant turns doing 900kmh Tas.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Ease up on the stick, and you won't have problems.

WWMaxGunz
04-26-2006, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">How ya gonna not spin if you don't even see the stall comin?

You do know when it is comming from the sound. When you hear the wind and the plane starts to vibrate during a turn, then get ready for the spin or let up alittle. I also spent alot of time working on my controls to take away the finger tip control to bring the stick movement back to what is in real life. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a rhetorical question. There is the sound and vibration that largely get ignored
judging from the posts I read. There is also the slowing down of turn rate or climb. And
speed drops.

I keep mine sensitive. I learned fine stick control years ago and try to stay in some kind
of shape about it. If I find I'm resting any weight of my hand and arm on the stick then I
know I've blown it right there. My hand goes around the stick but no squeezing or I am wrong,
simple as that. When I'm not up to flying due to age and health problems then I don't fly.

I know it's not easy for those who get excited or fixated but step one is knowing when you
(not particularly *you*, that you includes me) are making a problem. You can fix it with
the sensitivity settings but doing that you are also sacrificing control authority at some
speeds where a fine touch lets you have the whole range.

Joilet_Xray
04-26-2006, 10:46 AM
~S! All

Great bird for those that understand it! Not for the ham handed, any attemp at "banking and yanking" will leave the "driver" frustrated and mumbling.

edgflyer
04-26-2006, 10:51 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can get it up to 400 + MPH without diving in level flight

domenlovrec
04-26-2006, 11:04 AM
I fly P51 lately. I love it, it's my best plane. It very easy to shoot down Bf109. Few hits and engine is on fire, but FW are pain in a ***. They are like flying tanks. Imho they are the most dangerous planes to have them on your 6 when you fly P51. There is no need to afraid brutal FW firepower, cause few hits from every gun can be deadly. So, P51 has realy bad defensive manouevers. It's very very hard to win fight vs. plane, that has same altitude as you. Still i love this plane. So your only option to win the fight is to stay above enemy. But, imo japanes plane have to good climb rate. One day i was B&Z Ki, and i was 3km higher. I dived on the target then zoom back (as high as i could). Ki started to climb... hopelessly i watched the distance getting smaller and smaller. Yes i did some mistake, yet Ki should not climb so good, specialy on 20.000 feet.

So here is my question... At what speed P51 climbs the best?

noace
04-26-2006, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can get it up to 400 + MPH without diving in level flight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Could you show me how to dive in level flight http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Heard about TAS and IAS?

noace

GR142_Astro
04-26-2006, 11:14 AM
C'mon guys, we don't want a History CHANNEL P51, P51 won teh war, turn and burner, blah blah. Sure you can ram the throttle home, zoom around and tickle people in the a$$ all day long.....that's not the point.

Pre v4.0 a really good stick in a P51 could LOOSELY mix it up with a 109 and win. Keeping your E high you could take advantage of zoom and high speed turn and sucessfully pull off slashing attacks.

Not anymore. Go back to the pre-4.0 Mustang Oleg 1C. That FM matched up much better with what the books and pilot accounts have to say about the P51.

Xiolablu3
04-26-2006, 11:17 AM
Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can get it up to 400 + MPH without diving in level flight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant that you were incorrect saying that the P51D should be faster than the MkIII we have in game. I think, like noace says, you may be confusing TAS and IAS.

I always thought the P51D should be slower than the p51B and C, never mind the MkIII which is a 25+ boosted (and MUCH faster) P51B.

If I am wrong about this, please put me straight.

I do however agree that the p51 needs some work.

edgflyer
04-26-2006, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can get it up to 400 + MPH without diving in level flight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant that you were incorrect saying that the P51D should be faster than the MkIII we have in game. I think, like noace says, you may be confusing TAS and IAS.

I always thought the P51D should be slower than the p51B and C, never mind the MkIII which is a 25+ boosted (and MUCH faster) P51B.

If I am wrong about this, please put me straight.

I do however agree that the p51 needs some work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry sir. I did not intend to say that it was supposed to be faster than MKIII. (other than the III.) I have the tendacy to type slower than my thoughts and with my old age, I keep getting forgetful.

The B and C models were infact slightly faster than the D. Mainly because of the body change. However the speed difference was not that much.

Breeze147
04-26-2006, 11:42 AM
Originally posted by appulluk:
I fly it cause Yeager flew it, and I like it. But I like it cause Yeager flew it.

:P

So did Laurence Fishburne and he wouldn't lie.

Xiolablu3
04-26-2006, 11:50 AM
Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Xiolablu3:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgflyer:
The speed is not correct for it. Should be alot faster other than the III. .


Incorrect. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So you can get it up to 400 + MPH without diving in level flight </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I meant that you were incorrect saying that the P51D should be faster than the MkIII we have in game. I think, like noace says, you may be confusing TAS and IAS.

I always thought the P51D should be slower than the p51B and C, never mind the MkIII which is a 25+ boosted (and MUCH faster) P51B.

If I am wrong about this, please put me straight.

I do however agree that the p51 needs some work. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry sir. I did not intend to say that it was supposed to be faster than MKIII. (other than the III.) I have the tendacy to type slower than my thoughts and with my old age, I keep getting forgetful.

The B and C models were infact slightly faster than the D. Mainly because of the body change. However the speed difference was not that much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for the reply http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

By the way, when you are having problems getting the p51D up to 400mph, as we said before, I think you may be confusing TAS and IAS. (True Air Speed and Indicated Air Speed)

The cockpit gives IAS, to find out True Air Speed you will have to turn cockpit off (ctrl F1 or is it ctrl F2? not sure right now, one of those anyway) and look at the indicator at in the left hand corner of the screen.

Also test on the Crimea map because there is no wind and everything is 'default' for the test.

RCAF_Irish_403
04-26-2006, 03:17 PM
Originally posted by Vipez-:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RCAF_Irish_403:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
At present...its a horrible plane because of its stall characteristics. I just can't like it anymore...it just doesn't have what it takes to be a competent fighter. If you get into a fight with a Mustang, try as hard as you like but any serious manuevering seems to cause it to stall. I'd rather be in a Corsair or a Hellcat than a Mustang. The Mark III isn't as bad in this regard but the P-51D is just not very good.

The engine catching fire isn't a huge issue for me as the engine was fragile and was tightly fitted into the cowling. The Mustang was not a good ground pounder as the engine had so little protection.

+1

The other problem is that the wings come off 2 easy.....you also black out very hard the
instant you apply elevator...great, now i'm having flashbacks

The MK III is great b/c it's so fast. As i've said b4, the "B" and "C" are excellent planes...the "D" model gets me killed </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Apparently you are not aware that every plane in this simulation has same point, where the pilot black outs if you pull enough Gs. The problem still is, that Mustang has slightly too good elevator authority. Apparently it should be lowered, so would get less Mustang-complainers complaing why they lost wings at 15G instant turns doing 900kmh Tas.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif Ease up on the stick, and you won't have problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll ignore the sarcasm for peace sake

Rammjaeger
04-26-2006, 05:28 PM
The D variant with the gyro gunsight - which I find very helpful - is one of my favourite fighters in this sim. It is also a beautiful aircraft.

I don't know that much about aviation but most online stuff I've read about the Mustang indicates that it had a tendency to become unstable at low speed, especially during tight turns and that it was mainly a high-altitude fighter. So you have to be careful to lose as little speed and height as possible during combat.

http://img287.imageshack.us/img287/7677/mustang5mr.jpg

WTE_Galway
04-26-2006, 05:34 PM
Originally posted by Rammjaeger:
The D variant with the gyro gunsight - which I find very helpful - is one of my favourite fighters in this sim. It is also a beautiful aircraft.

I don't know that much about aviation but most online stuff I've read about the Mustang indicates that it had a tendency to become unstable at low speed, especially during tight turns and that it was mainly a high-altitude fighter. So you have to be careful to lose as little speed and height as possible during combat.



I am not really a mustang fan http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif however to be fair I think the reputation for low speed handling issues comes from the period when they had a serious CG problem when the auxiliary fuel tank behind the pilot was full of fuel. It was a serious issue and killed a lot of good men but it was fixed.

VFA-25_Cobain
04-26-2006, 05:42 PM
If you have E, it is a beautiful plane.

TAW_Oilburner
04-26-2006, 06:51 PM
Originally posted by Rammjaeger:
The D variant with the gyro gunsight - which I find very helpful - is one of my favourite fighters in this sim. It is also a beautiful aircraft.


Yes, the P51-D20NA (with the acemaker) is a lot of fun to fly and as others have said is a decent lady as long as you keep the speed up.

VW-IceFire
04-26-2006, 07:08 PM
Trust me...I'm aware of the tactics. I'll be the first to quote them on here. I don't for a second believe its a dogfighter or anything of the sort. I fly it like a boom and zoom machine that it is...but the FW190 or Tempest is a far nicer machine to be in because the Mustang's stall is always teetering on the edge of something nasty. In a Tempest, I can, at 400kph, reverse my roll quickly to aid in diving on an opponent and gaining sufficient lead to fire a shot before extending and climbing back up. In a FW190 I can do exactly the same thing. If I do the same tactic in a P-51 it tends to stall out. Particularly if I reverse my roll to get angle on the target during the boom stage of the attack. Reversing roll causes it to stall and the nose flies around for a while and you've just lost any iniative you had. The Tempest is much more stable and so is the FW190...they are all high speed fighters and they all had nastier stall characteristics so its not like im flying a I-153 here or anything...but I just can't get the Mustang to do what I want it to do.

This is mostly in regards to the D model. The B/C/III is not as bad...its still not the greatest but its seen better days. I remember when the Mustang was a great BNZ machine and I had lots of fun flying against FW190D-9s as the match was close enough in all respects.

No idea whats wrong...I just know that its not a good combat plane for me because I don't have confidence in it.

GR142-Pipper
04-26-2006, 08:45 PM
Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
Varies between Ho Hum and Garbage.

Icefire is spot on: Try a quick reversal and not only will you get an eternal hesitation, but once it comes around a flat spin is likely. Oleg and 1C simply DO NOT have the P51 corrected yet. Agreed. It's why few are seen on the servers much...with cause.

GR142-Pipper

marc_hawkins
04-26-2006, 08:49 PM
I'm one of those heretics who actually thinks the P51 is ugly... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/shady.gif

But as in real life, in this sim it does have its moments of goodness.

WWMaxGunz
04-26-2006, 08:57 PM
Icefire, all fuel tanks empty at the same rate so the rear tank is always a problem in the D.
I dunno if CG shift when fuel lowers is modelled at all either.
IIRC Godfrey wrote about fighting with rear tank over 1/2 full and stick reversal in a turn
where he at least had feel for what was happening and we do not.
Avoid playing P-51D's?
Wasn't it worse in 4.02 with wobbles included?