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Kuna15
09-26-2005, 10:17 AM
I am sure that this was discussed previously, but I didn't quite understand this subject. Main question is; how come I have so hard time aiming with P-47 (comparing to decent number of non-US fighters)? When I put a little rudder input my nose shakes a lot and unless my target isn't close I wont even bother to shoot at it because I will miss.

I ask this because in most other planes this is not the case. And I am not some expert at this issue to understand why is that the case with one type of aircraft and not with other type (nose shake).
Also I'm not regular P-47 driver, of all US planes I prefer P-38.

Kuna15
09-26-2005, 10:17 AM
I am sure that this was discussed previously, but I didn't quite understand this subject. Main question is; how come I have so hard time aiming with P-47 (comparing to decent number of non-US fighters)? When I put a little rudder input my nose shakes a lot and unless my target isn't close I wont even bother to shoot at it because I will miss.

I ask this because in most other planes this is not the case. And I am not some expert at this issue to understand why is that the case with one type of aircraft and not with other type (nose shake).
Also I'm not regular P-47 driver, of all US planes I prefer P-38.

GR142_Astro
09-26-2005, 10:40 AM
After 4.01 most every US fighter has developed this odd behavior. The nose on the P38, P39, P47 and P51 aimlessly wanders all over the place once you try to use the rudder. Trigger the guns and it gets even worse. Couple this with the glob-shooter airsoft .50s and we have a US planeset that has been rendered practically useless.

With the exception of the P40, I no longer fly US aircraft in this game. 4.01 is a gigantic step backward in regards to modeling of US types.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

p1ngu666
09-26-2005, 10:54 AM
it isnt german.

Maple_Tiger
09-26-2005, 02:36 PM
lol,

Try aiming with the P-51; the P-47 will seem easy.

VW-IceFire
09-26-2005, 03:43 PM
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM.

Kuna15
09-26-2005, 04:39 PM
Astro I can agree with your remarks about practically uselles planeset because that fighters mostly can not hold their own against their contemporary adversaries.

IMHO P-47s & P-51s are one of the most difficult planes to fly in 4.01 of late war planeset.

It seems that every new patch favours certain planes and at the same time some comes in unfavoured position.

We will see what will 4.02 bring. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it isnt german. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thing is that user can get stability with German planes, especially Bf-109. It is one of the most stabile planes all around in 4.01. Shooting, turning, manoeuvring low/mid even somewhat on high speed.

Heh that old "VVS requires skill to fly, but LW requires 10Ӕ that skill" brings (ironical) smile to my face. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That helped a bit IceFire, thanks.

Stanger_361st
09-26-2005, 04:57 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GR142_Astro:
After 4.01 most every US fighter has developed this odd behavior. The nose on the P38, P39, P47 and P51 aimlessly wanders all over the place once you try to use the rudder. Trigger the guns and it gets even worse. Couple this with the glob-shooter airsoft .50s and we have a US planeset that has been rendered practically useless.

With the exception of the P40, I no longer fly US aircraft in this game. 4.01 is a gigantic step backward in regards to modeling of US types.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We have an Amen here.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

p1ngu666
09-26-2005, 05:03 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:
Astro I can agree with your remarks about practically uselles planeset because that fighters mostly can not hold their own against their contemporary adversaries.

IMHO P-47s & P-51s are one of the most difficult planes to fly in 4.01 of late war planeset.

It seems that every new patch favours certain planes and at the same time some comes in unfavoured position.

We will see what will 4.02 bring. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">it isnt german. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thing is that user can get stability with German planes, especially Bf-109. It is one of the most stabile planes all around in 4.01. Shooting, turning, manoeuvring low/mid even somewhat on high speed.

Heh that old "VVS requires skill to fly, but LW requires 10Ӕ that skill" brings (ironical) smile to my face. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That helped a bit IceFire, thanks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

yip, perhaps add "lack off" or less too that?http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

im useless in a stuka tho, perhaps indicating u need skill..

Kuna15
09-26-2005, 05:25 PM
True but, it's funny how things have changed from FB days to 4.01. Things that aren't skill/experience related.

Low_Flyer_MkII
09-26-2005, 05:28 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Kuna15:


What will 4.02 bring? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No Westland Whirlwind, be sure http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

danjama
09-26-2005, 05:34 PM
4.02 = worse planes all over. P51 especially even more than now man. Not that i'd know http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Maple_Tiger
09-26-2005, 06:03 PM
Well, I haven't tride the 4.02m P-47 until now lol.

Ummm, the nose does bob up down to the side ect, with hardly any input. lol.

I have seen it jump up for no reason at all lol. Very weird for a plane that is suppose to have a good gun platform.

P-51 and Spitfire have a,better, smoother platform than the Jug.

fordfan25
09-26-2005, 06:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Maple_Tiger:
Well, I haven't tride the 4.02m P-47 until now lol.

Ummm, the nose does bob up down to the side ect, with hardly any input. lol.

I have seen it jump up for no reason at all lol. Very weird for a plane that is suppose to have a good gun platform.

P-51 and Spitfire have a,better, smoother platform than the Jug. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

thats sad to hear MP. send me an Email to fordfan25@earthlink.net you know just to say hi wink wink

danjama
09-26-2005, 06:28 PM
MT in my opinion, P51s are the worst plane in this 4.02 beta. But anyway i dont think we shud talk about this here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

fordfan25
09-26-2005, 06:44 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by danjama:
MT in my opinion, P51s are the worst plane in this 4.02 beta. But anyway i dont think we shud talk about this here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

again that web addy is fordfan25@earthlink.net we can talk about the weather or how great and kind the mods hear are you know im just lonely LMAO http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

danjama
09-26-2005, 06:54 PM
ha ha http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif maybe!

Maple_Tiger
09-26-2005, 08:16 PM
I'm back,

You'l love the gun platform for the P-38's - there the best that I have tride so far.

fordfan25
09-26-2005, 09:18 PM
was the guns desynced?

Professor_06
09-26-2005, 09:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I found that after removed a com port j-stick and only used USB j-sticks, the Yaw effect was almost eliminated. Big difference. I would agree that part of the problem is input settings.

Stanger_361st
09-26-2005, 11:07 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Professor_06:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I found that after removed a com port j-stick and only used USB j-sticks, the Yaw effect was almost eliminated. Big difference. I would agree that part of the problem is input settings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is controller settings why is it happening mostly to a few planes, or is worse with a few planes? You think it wouldd be acrooss the board if that was true.

gkll
09-26-2005, 11:51 PM
Ill have to make a track and see... but on a quick flight with a MK III i found it to be wonderfully agile and had no issue shooting down ace zeros AI. I would have said there is something to be gained?

I gotta look at a track because for me it feels like the P51 is a F1 car. Other MSFFB2 stick owners already posted on a previous thread on this exact topic that they weren't having an issue with these oscillations. Be careful you don't wash out a thoroughbred with all this whining.....

Aaron_GT
09-27-2005, 01:23 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If it is controller settings why is it happening mostly to a few planes, or is worse with a few planes? You think it wouldd be acrooss the board if that was true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It might be a case that those planes which had sensitive controls IRL are more affected. The thing to do would be compare the P51 and P47 against the 190A. To me the 190A seems the most unstable of the three, although the 190D seems more stable than the 190A (it might be subjective or truly more stable, but if it is more stable and should be more stable I am not sure why it should be more stable).

Also stability is relative - the nose wandering about might be accurate. Certainly in BOB II (WOV) the nose of the Spitfire and to a lesser extent even the Hurricane bobs about like nobody's business, which doesn't mean that the behaviour is correct, just that IL2/PF is not the only sim that has this problem. The quotes from USN fliers trying out the P51 to assess it for USN use seemed to suggest that they felt the level of yaw stability was not ideal for combat gunnery, so perhaps the P51 nose bobbing about relative to, say, the F6F, would be correct?

Zjoek
09-27-2005, 01:30 AM
A quirky joystick can also cause this wobbly behaviour. I went from a Wingman Force 3d to a Sidewinder precision pro. That really smoothed things out.

Then do what Icefire says. Default sensitivities for yaw are indeed 100/100/100 etc. Change it into gradually increasing values. It will help alot.

IL2-chuter
09-27-2005, 02:15 AM
As a Real Life pilot I can't say I've experienced anything quite like we have bobblehead-wise in the game right now. Sure, at lower speeds aircraft get all mushy and stuff, their stability is compromised between both ends of the speed spectrum. At their max speeds every plane I've flown feels a bit like a lawn dart shootin through the air and control induced oscillations are very small and short, you really know you're going fast.

I've got non-linear stick settings.



http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

Kuna15
09-27-2005, 04:41 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by fordfan25:
was the guns desynced? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The leaked beta patch may or may not be like official release. So I would say that we should wait for official release to see the changes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

HayateAce
09-27-2005, 09:37 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Stanger_361st:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Professor_06:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
Try changing your rudder settings. A full linear curve with 100 100 100 values across the board induces this behavior on my stick...

With something more like 9 16 26 and so on upto 100 there is no serious wandering. This problem is mostly related to controller settings and partly related to FM. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, I found that after removed a com port j-stick and only used USB j-sticks, the Yaw effect was almost eliminated. Big difference. I would agree that part of the problem is input settings. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it is controller settings why is it happening mostly to a few planes, or is worse with a few planes? You think it wouldd be acrooss the board if that was true. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Completely.

I fly the 109G2 or say LaGG3 and the planes track flawlessly and I am able to hit anything I want to with the guns.

Kuna15
09-27-2005, 09:42 AM
That is true. You don't have to set custom (gradual) yaw values for most of the planes. But with P-47 & P-51 there is quite a difference in handling.
I'm wondering why is that... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif