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View Full Version : Joystick use, one or both hands?



Drunken_Moose
02-25-2005, 09:59 AM

Chuck_Older
02-25-2005, 10:04 AM
Both?!

Better control from both?!

Are you mad? Mad I tell you, mad!

If both hands are on the control stick...what hand controls other functions????

Fly with one hand on the stick, and one hand on a throttle, firstly, even if you don't have a seperate dedicated throttle

Throttle control is critical. The reason you're having 1 on 1 trouble is more basic than 'how many hands should I hold the stick with?'

You need to start from square one, I think. Right now the cart's before the horse

3.JG51_BigBear
02-25-2005, 10:08 AM
One hand on the stick, one on the gas. Two on the stick would get a little crowded. If you have any sort of Saiteck stick you can program a hat switch to work like a mouse for easy looking around and use shift buttons to get all the important functions mapped to buttons on the stick so you don't have to look down at the keyboard.

Drunken_Moose
02-25-2005, 10:19 AM
Well, I meant I have 1 hand on the stick and the other around the base of the stick (for the throttle and other buttons)

Should I hold my mouse with one of them? The hatview button isn't smooth enough...

Chuck_Older
02-25-2005, 10:27 AM
You have three primary control inputs in an aircraft:

stick
rudder
throttle

You need to control these, period. What can I say...giving up sticik control, or throttle control, or rudder control, for view control...that is up to you.

But the thing is: you need to cotrol pitch roll and yaw, and to do that, you need to control the stick, throttle, and rudder


What good is seeing your target clearly if you can't maneuver with him?

Waldo.Pepper
02-25-2005, 10:54 AM
Sorry someone had to do it....

My stick is so big I have to use bot... never mind.

Texas LongHorn
02-25-2005, 11:20 AM
Hey Moose, I understand what you're saying. One hand for the direction input and one for the gas and buttons on the base of the stick. That leaves NO hands for the mouse <ggg.> I like the mouse look/scan the sky feature too but have programmed it into my stick hat <as another poster mentioned any Saitek stick will do this.) That way you have the best of both worlds. All the best, LongHorn

Drunken_Moose
02-25-2005, 12:27 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>

My stick is so big I have to use bot... never mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yea I knew that would come up :P

Thanks Texas! But is there any know way of "smoothening" to viewhat of my stick? So when I look right, I have to KEEP pressing right so my pilot's view fully go to right (Like a 2-3 seconds thing to fully extent the view to the right).

By default, the pilot just looks right/left/etc. in a matter of like .5 second. (ie: you can't scan the view).

fordfan25
02-25-2005, 01:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Sorry someone had to do it....

My stick is so big I have to use bot... never mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

gosh dang it you beat me to it. that was the only resone i came into this thread was to make that very same joke....well not realy a joke for me. more like a statement of fact LOL http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif.

flyplenty
02-25-2005, 01:11 PM
You can press F9 for switching between snap and pan view. The pan view is not ideal either because it's not smooth like mouse viewing, but at least your view stays put until you touch your hat again. I mapped my keyboard Space button to Center View, to make it easier to return quickly to my gunsight and instruments.

GT182
02-25-2005, 01:19 PM
Moose, do yourself a favor.... get a Tracker IR3 Pro and forget about the hatswitch, you'll be glad you did. Just ask the other Tracker owners.

FoolTrottel
02-25-2005, 02:15 PM
One hand on the stick. (Guillemot FFB, 12 buttons)
The other hand on the 'throttle control' (some use XYZ451 or whatever, I use a home built control thingy, derived from an MS stick, with a throttle and some other buttons, trim on a slider, flaps on a slider, prop pitch on a slider....)
Feet on the rudder bars...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v668/fooltrottel/Rudder1a.jpg

And, as GT182 said, Track IR...http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

And yep, I'm all lost on what to assign to what button. I'm thinkin' 'bout implementing an XFX Executioner Game Controller, a lot more buttons to assign functions to.. but what functions?

Have fun! (Oh, and go for that TIR thing, saves you a hand!)

steve_v
02-25-2005, 02:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Waldo.Pepper:
Sorry someone had to do it....

My stick is so big I have to use bot... never mind. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>hehe http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Drunken_Moose
02-25-2005, 03:13 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
Moose, do yourself a favor.... get a Tracker IR3 Pro and forget about the hatswitch, you'll be glad you did. Just ask the other Tracker owners. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Altough this gadget seems nice, I doubt I need this to get decent flying skills. I'll get it once I can hold my own in 1vs1's

stansdds
02-25-2005, 03:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Yea I knew that would come up :P <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
And I don't think I would have phrased it quite like that either! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Drunken_Moose
02-25-2005, 03:54 PM
Come on, are you guys profesional pilots? Well, better concentrate fully on your own stick instead of making raunchy jokes http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif


BTW, nice own made pedals here FoolTrottel http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

CreaseKeeper
02-25-2005, 04:08 PM
in a fight, you want to have instant control of the trottle, and the ability to look around and keep your target in view(whether that is with mouse or hat).

I am old school and still use the hat, but have one hand on throttle, and one on stick. I use mouse look when scanning skies looking for cons..

So if that means keeping one hand on the stick for you and one hand on base for throttle and base buttons, that's what you need to do.

-S-

Tully__
02-25-2005, 04:10 PM
http://www.saitek.com/uk/images/product/pcp/x45.jpg

One hand on the stick, one on the throttle. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

heywooood
02-25-2005, 05:35 PM
showboat....everyone knows size doesn't matter nearly as much as frequency of proper usage. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Chuck_Older
02-25-2005, 06:04 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drunken_Moose:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
Moose, do yourself a favor.... get a Tracker IR3 Pro and forget about the hatswitch, you'll be glad you did. Just ask the other Tracker owners. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Altough this gadget seems nice, I doubt I need this to get decent flying skills. I'll get it once I can hold my own in 1vs1's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Moose-

How would you describe your ability to perform a hammerhead or a wing-over? A Chandelle? Cuban eight?


I am not making fun here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

You are near the mark with feeling a need for developing flying skills. However, it is my opinion that until you actually master some flying skills more intricate than point-and-shoot, you will always be struggling in a 1 on 1

Now, if you have mastered the basics of virtual flight, all well and good. But from your posts, it seems you are quite new to it all. Being able to put your aircraft where you want it when you want it to be there will help you- not just to down your enemy, but to keep him in sight at all times.

There is more to Situational Awareness than simply a good view of your enemy

For instance: being able to effortlessly see your enemy is worthless if you can't clear your own tail. You need to know more than just a tactical picture of the combat. Maneuvering your aircraft well will enable you to keep eyeballs on your target- and- know where other enemies may be relative to your own position

On a one on one, that's the kettle of fish you are in- and if you can't make the plane do what you want it to do- you are going to lose, period. Not my rules, by the way http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif This comes from Oswald Boelcke right down to present day. How can you secure your advantages if you can't maneuver? Seeing the enemy first is the number one advantage you need to have- and to do that, you need to fly. The best sim pilot ever will be an easy kill if he never saw you coming

GT182
02-25-2005, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>by Drunken_Moose
Altough this gadget seems nice, I doubt I need this to get decent flying skills. I'll get it once I can hold my own in 1vs1's <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You'd be surprised how fast a Tracker can improve your flying skills. Ask the other guys what their opinions are before you dismiss it as just a "gadget". Many of us wouldn't even think of flying without it... 1 on 1 or any other way.

SDG73
02-26-2005, 12:36 AM
Roger that GT182! I just got a trackir3 pro and it is the ****! It has improved my dogfight skill alot. Its so nice to be able to keep your eye on your enemy while keeping my hand on the stick and gas. Its also true that once you get used to it theres no way i would want to fly without it.ahhhhhh....technology.

Longjocks
02-26-2005, 06:51 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Drunken_Moose:
Thanks Texas! But is there any know way of "smoothening" to viewhat of my stick? So when I look right, I have to KEEP pressing right so my pilot's view fully go to right (Like a 2-3 seconds thing to fully extent the view to the right). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
As mentioned, F9 to switch to incremental scanning with the hat is best. Four clicks left or right from the forward view will see you looking over your shoulder within a second. It doesn't take long for the incremental view to become second nature no matter what angle you need to look. It's just a case of practise.

If you had a Saitek stick you could use the profile software to set your hat up with a smooth mouse pan, or you can use one of a couple of third-party programs for this.

I have mucked around with one hand on the mouse before, but I found it counter-intuitive. I'm sure practise and setting up the scrollwheel for throttle would have worked fairly well if I kept at it, however I got myself an X45 and it does the job quite well.

For all those that say they use two hands on their 'stick', I find it sad that when you have that kind of equipment you need to play with it yourself instead of... oh, I don't know... say, a lady friend. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

GT182
02-26-2005, 08:52 AM
Longjocks, if you have a Tracker, use it with FS9. Just key S twice to get it working... it's also better than hatswitch use.

A Tracker IR3 Pro with the 6DOF vectoring software is the ultimate way to go with FS9. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Drunken_Moose
02-26-2005, 03:47 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
You'd be surprised how fast a Tracker can improve your flying skills. Ask the other guys what their opinions are before you dismiss it as just a "gadget". Many of us wouldn't even think of flying without it... 1 on 1 or any other way. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now stop it, I'm always too easily convinced when it comes to new "toys" for my PC hehe http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Longjocks
02-26-2005, 06:39 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by GT182:
Longjocks, if you have a Tracker, use it with FS9. Just key S twice to get it working... it's also better than hatswitch use.

A Tracker IR3 Pro with the 6DOF vectoring software is the ultimate way to go with FS9. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have to admit naivety here and ask what FS9 is? My Googling brought up hits for FS2004.

I have indeed picked up TrackIR recently, but I'm still in the midst of setting it up to my liking. First having my glasses on interferred with it and limited its range to under 30cm. After working that one out I now have to tweak it to get it tracking properly... but I'm a lazy, lazy man.

Drunken_Moose
02-26-2005, 10:19 PM
What? Glasses frame interfere with TrackIR? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

marcocomparato
02-26-2005, 10:57 PM
theres an application called something like HAT2JOY or JOYMOUSE and what it does is turn your hatswitch from a 8-way POV to actual mouse control. it then allows you to smoothly move it about. it works great. (with a key on your joystick for VIEW CENTER of course for when the **** hits the fan)

It was how i operated until getting TrackIR (which will seem far less expensive once you have it and use it your games). sorry i cant remember the name, but maybe someone else here can.

Platypus_1.JaVA
02-27-2005, 03:21 AM
Two hands of course. How can anyone manage the X52 with one hand? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Drunken_Moose
02-27-2005, 07:25 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by marcocomparato:
theres an application called something like HAT2JOY or JOYMOUSE and what it does is turn your hatswitch from a 8-way POV to actual mouse control. it then allows you to smoothly move it about. it works great. (with a key on your joystick for VIEW CENTER of course for when the **** hits the fan)

It was how i operated until getting TrackIR (which will seem far less expensive once you have it and use it your games). sorry i cant remember the name, but maybe someone else here can. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

JoyToKey? I used this program for games that didn't support the viewhat button initialy, but if you tell me it can do some good for Il2 who already supports it, I'll try anyways it!