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Afromike1
08-04-2008, 08:14 AM
what buttons should I set to looking around? I have a Saitek X52 with throttle. Please also say WHAT functions my buttons do. (IE. center view - left mouseclick)

SlickStick
08-04-2008, 08:18 AM
Traditionally, the 8-way hat switches on the stick are used for views. F9 is the default control to toggle between snap and pan views. Snap views will always "snap" back to center when you release the hat switch. Pan views will stay until you move the view again manually.

Feathered_IV
08-04-2008, 08:22 AM
Mouse-look is the best by far, if you are without tir.

SlickStick
08-04-2008, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Mouse-look is the best by far, if you are without tir.

Agreed that the best free-looking without TrackIR is with the mouse, you just have to take one hand off the HOTAS unfortunately. Many set the mouse on their left side for this, so they can keep control of the plane at the same time.

A bit tough to comeptitively dogfight with a HOTAS and having one hand on a mouse though, but it's great for initial scanning of the skies prior to the engagement. For me, anyways.

Feathered_IV
08-04-2008, 08:36 AM
I bought a fancy mouse for a quarter the price of a hotas. It's got a whole mess of extra buttons and a good smooth wheel. I can adjust trim, open/shut the map, open the canopy, drop bombs, fire alt weapons, cenre my tir and manage my throttle settings, without taking my hand off the thing. I love it to bits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

SlickStick
08-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
I bought a fancy mouse for a quarter the price of a hotas. It's got a whole mess of extra buttons and a good smooth wheel. I can adjust trim, open/shut the map, open the canopy, drop bombs, fire alt weapons, cenre my tir and manage my throttle settings, without taking my hand off the thing. I love it to bits. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/heart.gif

Now, that sounds cool. I was thinking along the lines of a traditional mouse, but having those extra buttons on the mouse could almost take the place of the throttle unit, as it appears you have done. Nifty.

ImMoreBetter
08-04-2008, 08:40 AM
Don't underestimate the number pad. Though you won't beat the mouse, it is still faster than a hatswitch, IMO.

Feathered_IV
08-04-2008, 08:54 AM
Here you go: Logitech MX510.

http://www.tweaknews.net/reviews/mx510/img/intro1.JPG

Look around with it. Plus:

Wheel = throttle
Wheel (push down) = Drop bombs
Front button ahead of wheel = elevator trim down
Rear button behind wheel = elevator trim up
Second button at rear = open/shut map
Side button(front) = centre tir
Side button(rear) = Open canopy
Left mouse click = Turret gun (fire)
Right mouse click = Alt weapons (fire)

Less than ten bucks US on ebay http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&...i=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1 (http://search.ebay.com.au/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&catref=C6&from=R10&fstype=1&satitle=logitech+mx510&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&floc=1&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=Postcode&sabfmts=1&saobfmts=insif&ga10244=10425&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1)

SlickStick
08-04-2008, 09:36 AM
Now, there's a handy-dandy little item. For those that do not have a HOTAS yet, that makes an excellent addition to just a stick and keyboard. And as you stated, much less cost than a HOTAS.

Chris0382
08-04-2008, 04:06 PM
My only problem with the mouse is that if the pointer is not in the middle of the screen when you move the mouse, you only get a partial view on either the right or left side. So you have to move the mouse to center and then center the screen before you get full views on both sides.

M_Gunz
08-04-2008, 05:01 PM
It's not TrackIR as in it don't cost like TrackIR.

Cachya used with MSFS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07Pd4EbwRQ4)

Cachya site (http://www.cachya.com/esight/overview.php)

You don't need a hat with lights :-P (http://www.cachya.com/esight/steps.php)

Metatron_123
08-04-2008, 05:13 PM
How do you adgust the mouse wheel to have a function such as trim or throttle?

When I try to assign it the game does not detect the wheel movement.

Davinci..
08-04-2008, 05:38 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
How do you adgust the mouse wheel to have a function such as trim or throttle?

When I try to assign it the game does not detect the wheel movement.

When in the "controls setup" section, go all the way down to the "hotas" part at the bottom, click on what you want to change, and make an input with that. For example if you want to use your mouse wheel as throttle, click on throttle, and the use the mouse wheel.

If you dont have TIR, i cant imagine a better way to fly, here is my simple setup. This setup is all i have, and is all i need.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2328/myhotasbe0.jpg

The mouse handles my engine controls, ie. throttle, prop pitch up and down, prop pitch auto/manual select, wep, etc..

My stick handles everything else.
While giving me a view that is faster, smoother, more accurate then TIR will ever be, oh.. and its free. The more buttons your mouse has, the more versatile it can be.

TIR definatly has its uses, its the best "immersion" device out there, and is probably more intuitive to use at first, but $150+ for something that my mouse does better, and for free.. i donno...
Mouse view is the best way to control your view if you dont have TIR, and can be setup as "part" of your hotas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Feathered_IV
08-05-2008, 08:08 AM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
How do you adgust the mouse wheel to have a function such as trim or throttle?

When I try to assign it the game does not detect the wheel movement.

Must be an older style mouse. Throttle should work okay if you set it up ubder the hotas section of the control menu though.

BrotherVoodoo
08-05-2008, 08:27 AM
If you have a CH Pro Throttle there is a ministick thumb mouse. The ****** or Cachya product would be a good alternative to TiR also. It uses a web cam to track head movement.

Edited: Removed a product name there... one that is not allowed to be discussed/mentioned here.

lozart1970
08-05-2008, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by SlickStick:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Feathered_IV:
Mouse-look is the best by far, if you are without tir.

Agreed that the best free-looking without TrackIR is with the mouse, you just have to take one hand off the HOTAS unfortunately. Many set the mouse on their left side for this, so they can keep control of the plane at the same time.

A bit tough to comeptitively dogfight with a HOTAS and having one hand on a mouse though, but it's great for initial scanning of the skies prior to the engagement. For me, anyways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But the X52 has a ministick mouse on the throttle.....at least the X52 Pro does.

AWL_Spinner
08-05-2008, 09:07 AM
Can someone tell me how to get one of the hat switches on my CH Combatstick to simulate mouse movement?

Yes yes, I'm sure there's a manual somewhere but you guys are much quicker than Google for a lot of sim specifics...

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

alert_1
08-05-2008, 11:36 AM
Feathered, please how do you enable all those buttons on your mouse in Il2 controls? I'm able to define only wheel and 3 buttons..thanks.

Aaron_GT
08-05-2008, 04:21 PM
A trackball can be a good option for mouse view.

fabianfred
08-05-2008, 05:52 PM
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c188/fabianfred537/010808024.jpg

I use the trackball for general looking around and 6DOF view in cockpit..... and the mouse for mini-map work
The two AV8R sticks are used for their throttles with the Throttle software for multi-engined a/c and to drop bombs/prop pitch/elevator trim

Feathered_IV
08-06-2008, 07:36 AM
Originally posted by alert_1:
Feathered, please how do you enable all those buttons on your mouse in Il2 controls? I'm able to define only wheel and 3 buttons..thanks.

Using the software that comes with the mouse, you can program the mouse buttons to have the same function as any regular keyboard key you choose. I programed the extra mouse buttons to be things like Page-up Page down etc. Things that the Il-2 controls system does recognise. Then mapped the desired controls to those keybaord commands. Once that was done, the mouse would work just fine. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Chris0382
08-08-2008, 07:56 PM
Just got the Cyborg Command Unit Gamepad and it has an anolog stick you can dedicate as a mouse and is very accurate. I programmed B6 on the CH Combatstick to center the cockpit and center the mouse. Seems to work well plus 21 programmable keys with modes and shifted keys. 40+ at Bestbuy.
Plus it backlited with 3 colors for the 3 modes.

Chris0382
08-09-2008, 08:16 PM
Get the 6DOF mouse mod and set mouseuse=2 in confi.ini, the game is a complete pleasure to use. Im taking back the Cyborg command unit and sticking with mt expertmouse trackball.

An incredible experience.

crucislancer
08-09-2008, 10:45 PM
Originally posted by Afromike1:
what buttons should I set to looking around? I have a Saitek X52 with throttle. Please also say WHAT functions my buttons do. (IE. center view - left mouseclick)

The X52 has a mini stick on the throttle which is set up for mouse use already. It works pretty well for looking around, but you need to turn up your mouse sensitivity in game a bit, as it's a bit slow on default. I have a button on my stick that I programed to center the view, very helpful when things get crazy.

As far as what each button on the X52 does, the answer is "whatever you want". It's fully programmable.

RAF_OldBuzzard
08-10-2008, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by alert_1:
Feathered, please how do you enable all those buttons on your mouse in Il2 controls? I'm able to define only wheel and 3 buttons..thanks.

There is also "uberOptions" which works with Logitech's Setpoint, and it opens up even more options for programming/profiling your mouse.

http://www.mstar.net/users/rlowens/

I use it with my MX Revolution, and it allows me to use buttons that Setpoint doesn't.

PapaLazarou.LoG
08-10-2008, 11:17 AM
I use the analogue thumb microstick in on my cougar's throttle, as it's analogue with a fair amount of travel, it's set to a diferent acceleration/speed as you move it further from center. Pressing it down will center view (after release to that the stick should be centered too) , shif press will toggle gunsight view.

On the .tmj it's something like:

USE ZERO_MOUSE
USE MICROSTICK AS MOUSE (12, 5, 4) - NO_BUTTON

BTN T1 /I Gunsight_Toggle
/O /P
/R <MSX(0) MSY(0) Center_View>

This is fast enough to glance over shoulder, and smooth enough for super slow zoomed scans.

In a transition time, I had the main hat set to snap views, and shift hat for mouse cursor emulation:

BTN H1U /I MSY (-27)
/O /H Pan_Up
BTN H1D /I MSY (27)
/O /H Pan_Down
BTN H1L /I MSX (-27)
/O /H Pan_Left
BTN H1R /I MSX (27)
/O /H Pan_Right
BTN H1M /I <MSX (0) MSY (0)>
/O
BTN H1UL /I MSY (-19) MSX (-19)
/O /H Pan_Up_Left
BTN H1DL /I MSY (19) MSX (-19)
/O /H Pan_Down_Left
BTN H1UR /I MSY (-19) MSX (19)
/O /H Pan_Up_Right
BTN H1DR /I MSY (19) MSX (19)
/O /H Pan_Down_Right

On the .tmm these correspond to:

Gunsight_Toggle = SHF F1
Center_View = KP8

Pan_Front = KP8
Pan_Right = KP6
Pan_Down = KP2
Pan_Left = KP4
Pan_Up = KP5
Pan_Up_Right = KP9
Pan_Up_Left = KP7
Pan_Down_Right = KP3
Pan_Down_Left = KP1

J_Flyer
08-10-2008, 11:30 AM
I personally use a mixture.

I've mapped my 8-way hat to act as the mouse, its not as accurate as using a mouse but allows me to keep hotas as much as possible, I also use a switch button to turn it back into an 8-way hat.

This way I can frrely look around with my hat swich (as you would with a mouse) but if I want to snap to a view, or more likely, return to centre, I just press the switch flick the hat switch and Im back in the forward facing view.

I find its the best solution once you are used to it, especially since you can speed up the speed of the hat swith as the mouse (using the cyborg evo force software)

R_Target
08-10-2008, 01:35 PM
I used to have the hatswitch set to "pan", and had a button mapped to center the view. Worked pretty well before I got TIR.

Maj.Kaos
08-10-2008, 02:38 PM
I've used a MS four button mouse for panning, gunsight view, normal, extended view (zoomed out), and zoomed in view. Wheel operates throttle, push the wheel to center the view. Throttle on joystick operates elevator trim. Hat switch operates other trims or other functions. I hardly move my hands off these controls during the flight, and especially the fight.

Chris0382
08-10-2008, 05:56 PM
tHE beauty of the 6DOF mouse mod is that no centering is needed and its quite smooth. Looking to get TIR soon for an even better view experience. I tried setting the CH Prod hat to mouse but it was too jerky. Too bad they don't put an anolog hat on thier joysticks.

WOLFPLAYER2007
08-10-2008, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Davinci..:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Metatron_123:
How do you adgust the mouse wheel to have a function such as trim or throttle?

When I try to assign it the game does not detect the wheel movement.

When in the "controls setup" section, go all the way down to the "hotas" part at the bottom, click on what you want to change, and make an input with that. For example if you want to use your mouse wheel as throttle, click on throttle, and the use the mouse wheel.

If you dont have TIR, i cant imagine a better way to fly, here is my simple setup. This setup is all i have, and is all i need.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/2328/myhotasbe0.jpg

The mouse handles my engine controls, ie. throttle, prop pitch up and down, prop pitch auto/manual select, wep, etc..

My stick handles everything else.
While giving me a view that is faster, smoother, more accurate then TIR will ever be, oh.. and its free. The more buttons your mouse has, the more versatile it can be.

TIR definatly has its uses, its the best "immersion" device out there, and is probably more intuitive to use at first, but $150+ for something that my mouse does better, and for free.. i donno...
Mouse view is the best way to control your view if you dont have TIR, and can be setup as "part" of your hotas http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, i have never tought about flying with the mouse, i always used the hatswitch button with newview....now i think i'll do this too.

The problem is how much time i'll spend to get used to it.

WTE_Galway
08-10-2008, 08:40 PM
Originally posted by WOLFPLAYER2007:


Damn, i have never tought about flying with the mouse, i always used the hatswitch button with newview....now i think i'll do this too.

The problem is how much time i'll spend to get used to it.


Before I got trackIr I used to fly with mouse view. I ended up finding it worked better to fly left handed and used the mouse in my right hand.

Feathered_IV
08-10-2008, 08:57 PM
I found I was able to train myself to look with the mouse in the left hand. By the time I bought the Tir, I was able to use the mouse with ease in my 'other hand' and even got to the point where I'd cranked up the mouse speed to 3.5 or 4x. I'd say give it a try. After a while your hand and eye become in sync and you can look around without even thinking about it.

nealn
08-11-2008, 03:43 PM
Feathered_IV

Very clever!
Had not seen or thought of that before.

Neal

antifreeze
08-13-2008, 04:30 AM
My personal preference is to download newview: http://www.airwarfare.com/Sims/FB/fb_newview.htm
The latest version is 3.4, but I think you'd probably have difficulty locating it.

With it, you can use two joysticks. One flies the aircraft, and the other (my left hand) looks around using free-look. The centred joystick centers the view. It is very intuative, and only takes an hour or so to get completely used to it. Of course, with two joysticks you also have the benefit of the extra sliders, throttles, triggers and buttons.

Setting newview up and exploring its options takes a lot of experimentation and thought though.
Plus earlier versions had a couple of bugs, including not saving settings (so the ini file had to be edited directly). 3.4 was more pleasant to use.

Krt_Bong
08-13-2008, 08:12 AM
You might try this http://war.by-airforce.com/downloads/newview.html
I've used it for making hatswitch work more naturally or you can try the alternative for TrackIr with a webcam; this I haven't tried but check it out. This one is ver.33

Dustysquareback
08-13-2008, 01:24 PM
Removed link.
It is not allowed to mention that product on these forums.

Bearcat99
08-15-2008, 03:19 AM
Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Afromike1:
what buttons should I set to looking around? I have a Saitek X52 with throttle. Please also say WHAT functions my buttons do. (IE. center view - left mouseclick)

The X52 has a mini stick on the throttle which is set up for mouse use already. It works pretty well for looking around, but you need to turn up your mouse sensitivity in game a bit, as it's a bit slow on default. I have a button on my stick that I programed to center the view, very helpful when things get crazy.

As far as what each button on the X52 does, the answer is "whatever you want". It's fully programmable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

Any hat on the X-45, X-52 or X-52 pro (I think the X-36as well but I am not sure) can be set up as a mouse, a 4 way hat switch or an 8 way hat switch... Than includes the two on the stick or the two on the throttle.. after a while it becomes second nature... and like Crus said.. just set up a button somewhere as a center view button.. I find that for me it is best to set up all my other hat switches as 4 way hats(since I use TIR4 even my former mouse button on my X-45 throttle is a 4 way hat..and by 4 way I mean a switch that works in the 12,3,6 & 9 oclock positions). That leaves me with 16 functions on the hat switches alone.... in each mode.. I only use 3 modes on my X-45... no need for the other 3.

Tully__
08-15-2008, 05:08 AM
Originally posted by Bearcat99:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crucislancer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Afromike1:
what buttons should I set to looking around? I have a Saitek X52 with throttle. Please also say WHAT functions my buttons do. (IE. center view - left mouseclick)

The X52 has a mini stick on the throttle which is set up for mouse use already. It works pretty well for looking around, but you need to turn up your mouse sensitivity in game a bit, as it's a bit slow on default. I have a button on my stick that I programed to center the view, very helpful when things get crazy.

As far as what each button on the X52 does, the answer is "whatever you want". It's fully programmable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

+1

Any hat on the X-45, X-52 or X-52 pro (I think the X-36as well but I am not sure) can be set up as a mouse, a 4 way hat switch or an 8 way hat switch... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And the hats on the Cyborg Evo and AV8R, same deal.

Dustysquareback
08-15-2008, 12:05 PM
We aren't allowed to mention the "other" head-tracker here? For real? I see my link was axed.

Why is this?

steiner562
08-15-2008, 09:57 PM
Originally posted by Dustysquareback:
We aren't allowed to mention the "other" head-tracker here? For real? I see my link was axed.

Why is this?
We were instructed by the forum management to do this as it infringes on IRTrack's patents.

Sokol__1
08-19-2008, 07:16 AM
New View page and support forum - now in english.

http://www.newview.hruks.com/index_en.php

Last version is 3.7k

Sokol1

Blindman-
06-18-2009, 08:51 PM
**** BUMP ****

danjama
06-18-2009, 09:02 PM
I highly recommend newview. Used it for years. If you have a hat and cant justify spending so much money on TiR, get newview.

BillSwagger
06-18-2009, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by Metatron_123:
How do you adgust the mouse wheel to have a function such as trim or throttle?

When I try to assign it the game does not detect the wheel movement.

Instead of using the hotas section, i program the mouse wheel for button commands through a mouse mapper.

X mouse button control
by ........High Resolution Enterprises...... (free)
Its a bit more in depth than Intellimouse.

http://www.highrez.co.uk/downl...useButtonControl.htm (http://www.highrez.co.uk/downloads/XMouseButtonControl.htm)


I then map rudder up/down keys to the keys that correspond to the mouse wheel:

for example :

numpad 2 = rudder left
numpad 8 = rudder right


when i move the mouse wheel, it is mapped to key numpad2 or numpad 8 depending on the direction.

I use a combo button on my stick to command increase/decrease throttle...etc.

(note: i'm also using a key mapper for my joystick)

In this case i use joystick button 3 mapped to "shift"....so in the game,

shift numpad 2 = throttle decrease
shift numpad 8 = throttle increase

So i can effectively adjust throttle just by pressing a button, and it won't move the rudder.


I have another JS button mapped so

js 2 + numpad 2 = trim elevator pos
js 2 + numpoad 8 = trim elevator neg


All this allows me to rely on panning with the mouse, while still being able to use throttle, rudder and trim, with out having to take a hand off of either quadrant.

There is a lever on my attack 3 joystick, that i've programmed for rudder use in the hotas.
I've found the mouse rudder is a bit tougher to get more accurate shots, because the one keystroke is set at a predetermined interval, where the Hotas lets you make smooth adjustments.


For the most part i rely on the mouse rudder but so i can place accurate shots when shooting ground targets or enemies beyond 0.500km, i use the hotas rudder set to a low sensitivity.
This way it also acts as a trim rudder function, until i move my mouse wheel for rudder....kind of nifty i think.

VMF-214_HaVoK
06-18-2009, 10:07 PM
FB View Plus is by far the best utility to use if you do not have TIR IMO. It turns your hat into a mouse pretty much with the ability to adjust the speed at which its pans and also enables a center view hotkey. I would definitely check it out. I used it for years before I got TIR4.

S!

julian265
06-18-2009, 11:11 PM
The best way to look around the cockpit without trackIR? If you consider trackIR overpriced, or don't like the way they do business, look on the web for other head tracking solutions. There are a few, and mostly free (GNU) too.

The one I use works fantastically... Never loses track, doesn't have to be started before IL2, and gives 6DoF. Its performance depends on the attention span of the person who makes and tunes it, however.

Ba5tard5word
06-18-2009, 11:24 PM
I have my flight stick in my right hand and in my left hand I hold my Xbox 360 controller, whose left analog stick is programmed with xpadder to emulate the mouse for looking around. Plus it has a few buttons I can use on it if I need to. Took me a while to get used to it but I'm pretty good with it now. Really great for keeping an eye on the enemy.

Flight_boy1990
06-18-2009, 11:51 PM
Originally posted by steiner562:
We were instructed by the forum management to do this as it infringes on IRTrack's patents.

{deleted}

About the best way to look freely without TIR device,it's a mouse on your leg.Some russians innovated it.Basicly what you do is tie an optic mouse to your right leg,and use it to look around.And both of your hands are still available.
Those russians have some interesting innovative minds. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Tully__
06-19-2009, 04:59 AM
Originally posted by Flight_boy1990:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by steiner562:
We were instructed by the forum management to do this as it infringes on IRTrack's patents.

{deleted} </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
What part of "instructed by forum management" is unclear? It's not open for discussion, don't mention that again.