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View Full Version : Is it me or is Sturmovik MUCH harder?



73GIAP_Milan
01-07-2005, 02:15 PM
Guys, today i got quite a shock...

I've got both IL2 Sturmovik - 1.2ov and IL2 Forgotten Battles - 1.22 (NO BoE/AEP/PF) running on my comp.

Just for fun i survived 2 Fw190A5 Aces with advantage last night in my own Fw190A5 in IL2/FB..
And this afternoon i felt like trying to do the same in IL2 Sturmovik..
I tried it about 5 times and got shot to bits over and over again http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif..
There where the AI in FB seems to be quite relaxed to take on, in Sturmovik they come in hardcore...
I know flying in IL2 is harder because of the stalls and stuff, but i'm too good to bother about that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif But the AI seems to be a whole notch better too...

-- another fact: i cannot set my convergence and fuel level in IL2 Sturmovik QMB and the flightmodels of the Fw190's are bad compared to FB ones, but still...

Sturmovik's Ace Ai seems to have totally different behaviour, more agressive and better gunnery then the ones in FB http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Can somebody enlighten me pls ? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Zayets
01-07-2005, 02:31 PM
True

TX-EcoDragon
01-07-2005, 04:10 PM
Many say that, but in particular to your case is the fact that the A5 was a real dog back then. . .

What gets me is how much better the sound is, in particular fly-bys of either my own aircraft, or even on a B&Z type merge. . . version 1.0, on my SB Live was awesome. . .dunno why I can't seem to get that now.

Bearcat99
01-07-2005, 05:05 PM
It was harder... just remember hardness does not equal realism.

VW-IceFire
01-07-2005, 05:53 PM
I remember the AI making some pretty impossible kills and shooting in the IL2 days. I think its more realistic now...they seem to panic more if I can say such a thing about AI.

tsisqua
01-07-2005, 06:18 PM
The AI in the original game behaved like killbots on steroids. It was better AI than anything else out at the time, but it was one of our biggest complaint about the game. Each version of the game has improved the AI considerably toward what might have been expected in real combat, IMO. I highly suggest that since you have FB, that you go ahead and get the AEP if you can find it. It should be very reasonably priced at the moment.\

Oh, and I still have Sturmovik installed. I still love to play it once in awhile, and I am still amazed at it, especially when remembering what the competition was like at the time.

~S~
Tsisqua

horseback
01-08-2005, 01:01 AM
I think that one reason the AI were tougher in the original Il-2 was that coming within a certain distance of an'Ace' seemed to sap or subtract from some of the player aircraft's performance. The bastages were not only capable of maneuvers the player couldn't hope to duplicate and given 'anal eyeballs' to detect me coming up from behind and below, they had to suck the performance out of my airplane whenever I came within a half kilometer of them.

I can remember trying to keep up with my 'Ace' flight leader on almost every campaign mission, and having him just run away from me, even tho we were flying the 'same' aircraft and I knew ****ed well that I was perfectly trimmed and had begun with a better energy state. Switching to autopilot was usually the only way I could hope to keep in formation and not burn my engine up.

Coming in range of an enemy Ace was easily detected by a sudden loss of accelleration and climb; even with him in an I-16, it seemed that you had little hope of running him down in a 109G-2. Even so, if you were patient and picked out their pattern, you could avoid their shots and kill them if you were a good enough shot.

Playing it today though, with a CH HOTAS rig and near three years of flight sim time (how many more hours of sim combat time 'in type' do many of us have than the men whose exploits we attempt to emulate?), the original is much easier than I remember, but I do have to consciously compensate for the different flight models. If I try to go directly into a campaign mission in Il-2 after spending a couple hours playing FB, I'll screw up rather quickly if I don't pay close attention. The FMs were simply that much more unforgiving, and that sneaky little bit different.

cheers

horseback

LeadSpitter_
01-08-2005, 03:35 AM
i wouldnt say its harder at all, just the one difference i see is the stall characteristics between il2 sturmo and fb. In stumo all aircraft did flop and go into a flat spin when stick and trim yanking taking at least 1000m to recovery from. Also ac in fb some can kick full rudder with no flop at all while others the slightest easy press of rudder will flop them but instantly recover with center stick.

The 1000m recovery does not happen anymore which is why people stick yank like crazy flopping all about with instant recovery immediatly. There is no unrecoverable dive from stick pressures, you can always pull out before passing the different shed one aileron and elevator and do the same even with missing them.
the only unrecoverable stalls are from when the rudder is shot out in sturmovik that wasnt so.

There was a couple ac that behaved like sturmoviks ac like the p40b c and wildcat going into the hard to recover spin but both were changed to match to other fms stall instant catch.

I wish ac all did go into a unrecoverable stall like in stumo from extremely fast stick movement (yanking in all directions with flyby wire response] but seems fb pf the age level has dropped from 11 yrs old to 7 yrs old and making the game easier for the new user to do well the first time playing.

Even all the vets who flew these planes and did reviews of the game have all said the same thing the ac are all much to responsive even with max 30 input and full filtering which is closer to simulate the pressures on control surfaces all say its closer to reality but those settings will get you slaughtered online with most people who use 100 100 100 100 down the line for thier inputs. Now only if they would listen to them. PC pilot magazine had one of the articles on real wwii vets who reviewed this game.

Also there was a couple other videos back when fb first came out. One was a finnish b239 pilot and a few other ac all said the same thing. The other was a p47 and p40 pilot i believe. Then 109 spit and a few airshow pilots.

the response from controls, way to responsive is what they all said.

Hold a 30lb or 50lb bench plate up and see how fast you can move it, something that can easily be simulated with input and filterings all they have to do is reduce the 100 input field to 30-50 input max and many ac would be more realistic instead of the fly by wire response with 100 input.

I do think it would make the game much much easier tho being aircraft cannot flop out of your way. But tactics and teamwork would be required alot more.

This game is one mans interperation on how things were and has final say on all matters weather realistic or not. he has no better secret information then we can purchase and many of us have exp in rl flight as well as talking to many of the veterns in newsgroups and airshows.

Still hands down this is the best simulation of wwii flight out, content, model quality, anti cheating adds, low alt terrain etc. Many other older sims simulate things better then fb and sturmo does especially alt performance, cem, differential braking, ground handling, gear stability, sound, stick pressures etc. But still none of them match the content quality of this series.

TheGozr
01-08-2005, 04:24 AM
man i reloaded sturmovik and i found it so easy i couldn t beleive , check how fast the plane accelarate on take off it's hillarious.. and the sound.. it wasn't bad at all compare to the concurence at the time..

73GIAP_Milan
01-08-2005, 06:22 AM
You all got serious points here..

Sturmovik is quite a bit harder to fly with the less forgiving flightmodels, but severely suffers from the under/overmodelled flightcharacteristics.
The AI is indeed capable of things i can't even attempt to reproduce even if there was a 4th Dimension.

Bearcat and Leadspitter: also right, Sturmovik comes out as hardest to fly, but i've played it for such a long time, now finally switched to FB and find the realism better with it. Il2 is great, but effortlessly surpassed by FB. Indeed it's from 11yrs to 7yrs - as Leadspitter put so nicely http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

The real big difference is the fact i cannot set my convergence in IL2 QMB and that the AI has different combatroutines, they don't seem to atttempt to create an advantage, they just zoom by, turn tight (strangely tight sometimes) and get up your 6 before you get a chance to get some distance. With FB i can easily outfly the AI on every difficulty, with IL2 it's just not possible - the Sapping of Performance Horseback mentioned together with their 'all-weather radar' so they see me coming in from miles away.
Personally i don't really find that the responciveness of the controls makes much difference when fighting AI, sometimes the planes act too good for my feeling, but the real difference lies in Online play, where too responcive causes stalls and too less causes death by leadpoisoning http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Note to Tsisqua: I really want to get AEP and PF, but atm my computer can't handle it, FB runs barely (stutters start on 5+ planes in view http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif )So i gotto wait with that a bit, but sure the purchase is planned as AEP has a good price over here now http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

To Ecodragon: I've got an SBLive1024 with surroundspeakers attached and i find it hard to judge which is better, IL2 has better P39, 109 and 37MM sounds for example, while FB lacks a bit on enginesounds but has a slight more immersionfactor.
The soundquality is overall the same on my setup, but FB takes more resources, resulting in an occasional stutter

tjaika1910
01-08-2005, 01:32 PM
I have the original here but have hardly ever played it. FB cave some weeks after I bought it and online I had to have FB to be able to play. I will install it now, unpatched. Heard the Il2 rear gunner was a real killer at the time before the patches ;D