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View Full Version : Idea: Difficulty Settings: Optional Takeoff & Landings



XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 02:10 PM
Oleg and team,

Thanks for the new beta patch v1.2. It's a work of art.

I've been thinking about posting this for some time. I run a game mostly every night and differ the settings from airstarts to take off and landings.

Basically, T&L is so that planes can't just refly and disappear from an enemies gunsight (although it lends itself to planes being takened out on landing) to airstarts which gets rid of the possibility for vulching.

Both settings have their frustrations but what would be nice is the ability to have airstarts with out the option to refly unless the player has bailed, crashed or landed (much the same as Take off and Landings enabled)

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks

BBloke

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 02:10 PM
Oleg and team,

Thanks for the new beta patch v1.2. It's a work of art.

I've been thinking about posting this for some time. I run a game mostly every night and differ the settings from airstarts to take off and landings.

Basically, T&L is so that planes can't just refly and disappear from an enemies gunsight (although it lends itself to planes being takened out on landing) to airstarts which gets rid of the possibility for vulching.

Both settings have their frustrations but what would be nice is the ability to have airstarts with out the option to refly unless the player has bailed, crashed or landed (much the same as Take off and Landings enabled)

Hope that makes sense.

Thanks

BBloke

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 06:26 PM
If you use an arcade setting like airstarts, you get whatever game-the-game artifacts you deserve. If your players can't be bothered to taxi a couple hundred meters and rotate off the ground, maybe they ought to be playing Grand Theft Auto.

Airstart is really only good for starting co-ops and scenarios to eliminate *hours* of flight (bomber escort), or where the takeoff point isn't on the map.

For a dogfight, the players should simply be prepared to take a few minutes to take off and grab some alt.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 06:40 PM
Hmm, I think it is his game, and he is entitled to play it at any difficulty settings he likes.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 07:24 PM
That's obvious (and moot). I'm just stating how *I* feel about it: the "problem" lies in not having enough of an attention span to do two of the more important parts of any flight: takeoff and recovery.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 07:59 PM
Well, one of the problems he described that he wants to avoid is vulching during T/L. I suppose that could be handled if there was CAP above the airfield. Also, if AA fire from the field was sufficiently deadly, that might supress it too.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 08:00 PM
I think part of the fun is actually trying to get your bird back to the runway when its leakin fuel oil coolent blood etc, etc. A sense of accomplishemnt at the end of the day.
T&L is fundemantal to the gameplay as a whole.
Sure people can play it at whatever settings they want, this is just my humlbe opinion.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 08:46 PM
Another way to minimize vulching is to design a DF server with multiple fields for each side (so, if one is capped, you can take off from another); and with AAA at all fields to make it risky.

The silliest servers are those with just one base per side, situated within 10km of each other, which all but forces vulching over one or the other, and/or with no flak at the fields. It's the kind of "quick & easy", low-attention span, arcade design that just creates exploits and "spirit-of-the-sim" cheats. Even with airstarts, you can still have "spawn campers" waiting over the area where enemy "pop into existence", so actually, this doesn't stop vulching either.

Vulching is a historical tactic. It sucks when you get strafed or vulched, but, fact is, if you don't check to see the coast is clear, it's *your* fault...the vulcher is just claiming the low-hanging fruit.

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 11:00 PM
So, you blast one idea only to introduce another that can be blasted by your first argument.

C'mon Stiglr! You getting old and senile on me?

XyZspineZyX
11-19-2003, 11:45 PM
Nah, I'm still "with us"... but this is a complicated subject. I guess the real point to be gotten from all this is that "selecting features" for the sake of expediency and convenience (rather than selected based on accuracy and history) only create silliness and dweebery;

So, using "optional" TO/L features to get around vulching OR just to circumvent the very real need to do both on EVERY flight... doesn't produce desirable effects.

But, if you make such decisions based on history and realism (you take off and land [one way or another!] each mission, you "permit" vulching and you also have AAA protecting bases) and all those problems go away for the most part.

XyZspineZyX
11-20-2003, 08:03 AM
When I host games from my machine in the brief it says no vulching of aircraft on the deck or during take-off or landing.
This also gets very vague, so what I did was in the map I put two racing poles on each side of the runway. When you either takeoff or land you then will pass between them.
So if you are on final approach you will pass between them about 50 meters out. Once you pass that point its a no shoot area.
Players that dont adhere to the rule get booted after they get warned once, simple really.
Bombers are still allowed to go crazy over the airfields and shoot whatever they like whenever they like.
I find it works pretty nicely, and 99.9% of all players that join adhere to the rule which is nice.

XyZspineZyX
11-20-2003, 05:53 PM
Thanks for all your comments. They are very welcome.

I'm not oppose to T&L all of the time. The server has beening running it for some time and I have no problem with it.

The server is not just for me and standing at the door vetting the entrants does seem rather stupid. It's not a preference for myself but rather the newbie flyers that often join. The server is for fun and should remain fun as it's only a game. Where the only option to cheat is to warp your plane , we are more reliant on personal restraint and following of a few simple rules to allow everyone to enjoy such a tremendous game.

In an ideal world it would be excellent to have sufficient AA to prevent vulching but unfortunately machine specs differ too much and lag is a high factor for frustrating game play.

>>Stiglr wrote but, fact is, if you don't check to see the coast is clear, it's *your* fault <<

Thats just as easy to say RTFM whenever anyone asks a question but don't you have to be on the runway in order to check the coast is clear which would probably be right about the time someone rips you a new eye hole in the back of your head.

Multiple bases in my case would probably cause an increase in ground objects, an increase I'm unprepared to make. I've seen maps that have 2 bases each. The second far reach base only allows bombers so that scenario would cover the comments it wouldn't offer any difference on game play.

I do recall an option 'No Instant Success' which I think only applies for co-op missions and my understanding is that it stops the mission being won unless you land. I could be way off the mark with this but that would ideal for DF servers.

I know I'm not alone on wanting settings to eliminate certain "cruelties" from the game. It is all swings and roundabouts.

If rules are broken then normally a simple apology would suffice. I can be less than understand when nobody does so. No warning is given they just get kicked.

At the end of the day the server is running FBDaemon and it would be such a shame to allow a script to evaluate whether rules have been broken as it often bans the offender.

Thanks again

BBloke

BBloke

BBloke

BBloke

BBloke

XyZspineZyX
11-20-2003, 07:50 PM
Multiple airfields don't necessarily add a lot of objects to a DF server. If they're populated with a lot of AAA, the actual firing of the guns will slow things down. But the standard AF items themselves load once for all fields, just like static aircraft. It's not that much load.

The benefits to realistic gameplay are all worth it. It really IS your own fault if you allow yourself to be vulched, but with one caveat: if there's only one AF per side to take off from, then there's nothing you can do to avoid vulching...in that case it's is an undue burden.

I'd think that a good DF server should allow all kinds of action, and should have a variety of things to do: among them, Stuka and IL-2 raids on airfields. Ergo, vulching as part of strafing and airfield interdiction will, did, and should be allowed to happen.

Too often, people can't be bothered to take off and fly an agonizing 5 - 10 minutes (arrrrrgh; the pain, the horror!!!) to contact, or grab any altitude whatsoever; it's take off, clean up, head in straight beeline for closest enemy airbase at about 100 meters. Then they wonder why they always get bounced. It's because they're so predictable.

As for noobs, if they complain, they might be gently reminded about the wisdom of taking off from a rear or alternate base. That's part of the learning experience, too: learning what's smart, and what's not.