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View Full Version : My proposed new rig - waddaya think?



panther3485
09-27-2006, 05:10 AM
So, I'm going out tomorrow to buy the Samsung 19" monitor for my son, who will be getting my present rig (3.4GHz P4, Intel D875PBZ Mobo, 2Gig DDR400 RAM, GeForce 6800GT etc...)

I've already started doing the digging up of info, checking prices, reviews etc, visiting local dealers....you know the routine... will build entirely on my own this time.

I'm starting to look favourably on the following combination and wonder if you guys have any comments or suggestions:

Case - CoolMaster CM Stacker 810

PSU - CoolMaster iGreen Power 600W

Mobo - ASUS P5B DeLuxe, LGA775, Core2 Duo, P965 chipset, 1066FSB, DDR2-800, 2xPCIE, RAID etc...

CPU - Intel Core2 Duo E6600, 2.40GHz, 4MB cache, 1066FSB

RAM - 2Gig Corsair DDR2, PC6400, 800MHz, non-ECC, Unbuffered, 5-5-5-12 (2 x 1GB sticks)

HDD - 2 x Western Digital WD1600YS Caviar RE 160GB 7200RPM 16MB cache SATA2 in RAID-0

Graphics - still undecided here; thinking of going for a cheaper single mid-range card to begin with (say, 7600GT), and make do with that for about a year, then jump on a couple of 7900GT's (when they're much cheaper) and set 'em up in SLI.

Also, I've already got a great monitor that will do me another 2-3 years, so no need to buy another one, but I'm trying to stick to a 'budget' (within A$2,500 if possible) as that's about all I've got to work with at the moment.

Waddayall think? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

-HH-Quazi
09-27-2006, 05:19 AM
Great case. Great PSU (although I am partial to OCZ). Great mobo. Great cpu (although the E6700 would be a better buy imho). Great RAM. Great HDD.

The video card? The original factory released 7900GT can be had for as little as $200 if you look hard enough. They were $202 after rebate at Newegg not long ago. But the 7600GT will get the job done nicely.

Bottomline? Great choices! Should be a smokin' rig m8. Congrats!

panther3485
09-27-2006, 06:49 AM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
"Great cpu (although the E6700 would be a better buy imho)."

Naturally, I reckon it'd be better as well, except that when you are on a budget it becomes a balancing act as to where is the best place to put the dollars (taking all factors into account, including future upgradeability) and the good old fashioned 'bang for the buck' factor carries a lot more weight! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Around the Australian dealers, I was able to find the E6600 for not much more than $A500.00 but the E6700 still costs over A$800.00. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/bigtears.gif That's a very hefty price increase for what 'Australian PC User' magazine (after doing their bench tests) described as follows:

"Intel's Core 2 Duo E6600 is probably what we'd call the 'performance processor for people with a mortgage'. It's a good US$200 cheaper than the top-drawer consumer E6700 (around 60% of the E6700's price), but still comes with around 90% of its performance. The E6600 runs at 2.4GHz against the E6700's 2.66GHz, but importantly still includes the 1066MHz frontside bus (FSB) and the 4MB of L2 cache inside. Drop down to the E6400 and the cache also drops down to 2MB. So, in terms of value and performance, the E6600 is definitely the chip to aim for."

And besides having to trim things a bit to stay within budget, I figured my choice of Mobo/Socket/Chipset should allow me plenty of scope for an upgrade later, when the $s allow! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
"The video card? The original factory released 7900GT can be had for as little as $200 if you look hard enough. They were $202 after rebate at Newegg not long ago."

Not too sure what's involved with the 'after rebate' thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif, but I assume your figures are in US$, which would come in at what, a tad over A$300.00? Then there's freight, of course. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-tongue.gif

I priced a number of 7600GTs, various brands, various dealers, and they seem to range from about A$250.00 up to about A$325.00 (a bit higher again for a few 'special' versions). I'm tending to favour an ASUS card I found at A$267.00. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/metal.gif

The 7900GTs here seem to range from about A$450.00 up to around a$570.00 for the 'special' versions. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
So based on that, I was looking at saving myself nearly 200 bucks and once again, this is something I can easily upgrade later. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif


Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
"But the 7600GT will get the job done nicely.
Bottomline? Great choices! Should be a smokin' rig m8. Congrats!

Thanks very much for the input, I appreciate it. My finance chief (wife) is allowing me A$2,500 and with the options I've indicated, I'm just about on the limit now! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

kit_lg2002
09-27-2006, 06:56 AM
Nice rig you will get there, but i have a quastion, why do you get 4x 512 instead of 2x 1Gb stcks of ram (are they more expensive???), if you get 2x1gb you will have 2 free slots for future upgrades, and with Vista coming soon we all will need more than 2 Gb's.

WOLFMondo
09-27-2006, 07:27 AM
Looks like a great deal.

Probably exactly what I'd buy if I was building a whole new rig. I'd get XP64 and at least 3GB of RAM though. Probably 2X1GB and 2X512, if not 4X1GB.

panther3485
09-27-2006, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by kit_lg2002:
Nice rig you will get there, but i have a quastion, why do you get 4x 512 instead of 2x 1Gb stcks of ram (are they more expensive???), if you get 2x1gb you will have 2 free slots for future upgrades, and with Vista coming soon we all will need more than 2 Gb's.

Well, not so long ago a 1 Gig stick here would have cost quite a bit more than 2 x 512's, but I've just checked again and that doesn't seem to be the case any more - in fact the 1 Gig (in the case of the Corsair RAM at least) is now cheaper! ... so yeah, what was I thinking? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

2 x pairs of 512 @ A$265.00 a pair = A$530.00

1 x pair of 1 Gig = A$485.00

Just saved myself 45 bucks and two slots are still vacant if I wanna chuck in another Gig or two later.... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Well done, mate, thanks! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

ploughman
09-27-2006, 11:22 AM
I can't remember where I read it but the E6600 can be safely overclocked to something like 3.6ghz. It's a really nice balance between performance and economy and the processor I've currently got earmarked for my first self build.

I've also got the 7900GT pencilled in and as much RAM as I can afford, I'm hoping to come in at 850-1,000, anymore than that and the Mrs.'ll be at me with a hammer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Airmail109
09-27-2006, 12:34 PM
Wait a month and a bit for the 8800 GTX.... dx10 unified architecture behemoth. Will be far faster than 2 7900s and probably the same price. Advice always buy graphics cards in early or mid life...in the end you will get more use out of them. Buying a 7900 now is a waste of money.

Specs

* Unified Shader Architecture
* Support FP16 HDR+MSAA
* Support GDDR4 memories
* Close to 700M transistors (G71 - 278M / G70 - 302M)
* New AA mode : VCAA
* Core clock scalable up to 1.5GHz
* Shader Peformance : 2x Pixel / 12x Vertex over G71 (48 pixel and 96 vertex *)
* 8 TCPs & 128 stream processors
* Much more efficient than traditional architecture
* 384-bit memory interface (256-bit+128-bit)
* 768MB memory size (512MB+256MB)
* Two models at launch : GeForce 8800GTX and GeForce 8800GT
* GeForce 8800GTX : 7 TCPs chip, 384-bit memory interface, hybrid water/fan cooler, water cooling for overclocking. US$649
* GeForce 8800GT : 6 TCPs chip, 320-bit (256-bit + 64-bit) memory interface, fan cooler. US$449-499

They are real as well

Coupled with a conroe (which at the moment is choked by a 7900....your pc would be a monster)

OH and use 2 x 1 gig of ram, that way youll get dual channel ram. Always always try to use two sticks...if you want more than two gig...you use 2 x 2 gig sticks.

Chivas
09-27-2006, 03:39 PM
That system will rock. You could save some money buying a 6400 Conroe which will easily overclock to the 6600 and higher. All the the 6300,6400,6600, and 6700 overclock well over 3 gigs. Especially with the motherboard you have selected which has the 507 bios.

You can use the money saved to upgrade from the 7900GT to 7900GTX.

ploughman
09-27-2006, 03:50 PM
Ta for the advice for the advice on the 8800 GTX Aimail. I'll bear that in mind.

Airmail109
09-27-2006, 03:50 PM
Nooooooooooooooooooooo wait to get an 8800 GTX damnit.....itll last u longer as ull be buying the card at the beggining of its life...the G70 series of cards are a year old now...

(edit) Kk....i just thought id let you know heheh

Chivas
09-27-2006, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Nooooooooooooooooooooo wait to get an 8800 GTX damnit.....itll last u longer as ull be buying the card at the beggining of its life...the G70 series of cards are a year old now...

(edit) Kk....i just thought id let you know heheh

That 8800 sounds interesting. I will have to do a search for more info.

ZappaTime
09-27-2006, 04:52 PM
Check out the Gainward (Bliss) 7900 GS PCX 512Mb; its had some very strong reviews; here in the UK its at Overclockers.co.uk for 170

There's a review here: http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=34406

panther3485
09-27-2006, 07:57 PM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
I can't remember where I read it but the E6600 can be safely overclocked to something like 3.6ghz. It's a really nice balance between performance and economy and the processor I've currently got earmarked for my first self build.

I've also got the 7900GT pencilled in and as much RAM as I can afford, I'm hoping to come in at 850-1,000, anymore than that and the Mrs.'ll be at me with a hammer. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Your Mrs sounds similar to mine and taking account of the exchange rates, your 'budget' sounds very similar too!

This will be my second 'self build'. Good luck with your first! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

hamselv2
09-27-2006, 08:23 PM
Here is a list of SLI certified hardware:

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone2_build.html

panther3485
09-27-2006, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
"That system will rock. You could save some money buying a 6400 Conroe which will easily overclock to the 6600 and higher. All the 6300,6400,6600, and 6700 overclock well over 3 gigs."

Yep, and AFAIK they all have the 1066FSB but you drop from 4M to 2M L2 cache when you go down to the 6400 or 6300. Also, I don't overclock. What I can't get at standard clock speeds doesn't get got by me! I don't like voiding my warranties, I live in a hot climate and I can't be bothered with elaborate cooling systems. So if I'm gonna stay with Intel, the E6600 is the 'sweet spot' for this boy!




Originally posted by Chivas:
"....Especially with the motherboard you have selected which has the 507 bios.
You can use the money saved to upgrade from the 7900GT to 7900GTX."

And is some ways that wouldn't be a bad idea at all, but my feeling is that even with the single 7600GT I've got planned, the system will kick arse so well I shouldn't need to upgrade again for about 12 months. By then, I should be able to pick up, maybe, a pair of 7950's (or equivalent) relatively cheaply and set 'em up in SLI....at least, that's the game plan! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

But information I've been offered today suggests maybe I should go AMD instead...??? (see following posts) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Thanks for the input,
best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Chivas
09-28-2006, 12:01 AM
But information I've been offered today suggests maybe I should go AMD instead...??? (see following posts)

I'd like to see that information...at the moment...there are no AMD systems that can touch the Conroe running FB.

panther3485
09-28-2006, 12:35 AM
Originally posted by hamselv2:
Here is a list of SLI certified hardware:

http://www.slizone.com/object/slizone2_build.html

I've checked this out and it seems that the FULL benefit of SLI (that is, 16x in both slots) is not to be had unless you go AMD?????
Or have I got that wrong?????

A sales rep at one of my local dealers has given me a quote based on an AMD chip, using a Mobo that gives full 16x SLI (both slots) - unlike the Mobo I've chosen above, with is 16x in one slot and 4x or 2x in the other! Presumably, this means you're running at 4x with two cards in SLI?
Or have I got that wrong as well???

Anyway, this guy 'swapped out' the Mobo and CPU I was originally going to settle for (and still might), for the following:

CPU:
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual-Core - 4600+ Socket AM2

Mobo:
ASUS M2N32-Sli Deluxe (one of the boards featured on your link, I noticed)

He made other changes, like swapping Seagate 250GB hard drives for my 160GB WD's, for around the same price, but the Mobo (with its SLI features seemingly an improvement over what I'd already selected) and the CPU have me scratching my head. Would this be a better solution, or would it not? Opinions please???

panther3485
09-28-2006, 12:43 AM
Hey guys, I just woke up to another mistake I may have made.... (serves me right for trying to do things in a hurry):

The Mobo I selected originally (ASUS P5B Deluxe) looks like it MAY NOT support SLI. I saw the two PCIE slots and assumed it supported SLI but I might be wrong. I've searched the specs and it doesn't mention SLI anywhere....
and since I want SLI as a future option, then there goes that idea!

Ahem.... back to the drawing-board (in the Mobo department, at least!) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blush.gif

WOLFMondo
09-28-2006, 02:02 AM
Originally posted by Aimail101:
Wait a month and a bit for the 8800 GTX.... dx10 unified architecture behemoth. Will be far faster than 2 7900s and probably the same price. Advice always buy graphics cards in early or mid life...in the end you will get more use out of them. Buying a 7900 now is a waste of money.

Specs

* Unified Shader Architecture
* Support FP16 HDR+MSAA
* Support GDDR4 memories
* Close to 700M transistors (G71 - 278M / G70 - 302M)
* New AA mode : VCAA
* Core clock scalable up to 1.5GHz
* Shader Peformance : 2x Pixel / 12x Vertex over G71 (48 pixel and 96 vertex *)
* 8 TCPs & 128 stream processors
* Much more efficient than traditional architecture
* 384-bit memory interface (256-bit+128-bit)
* 768MB memory size (512MB+256MB)
* Two models at launch : GeForce 8800GTX and GeForce 8800GT
* GeForce 8800GTX : 7 TCPs chip, 384-bit memory interface, hybrid water/fan cooler, water cooling for overclocking. US$649
* GeForce 8800GT : 6 TCPs chip, 320-bit (256-bit + 64-bit) memory interface, fan cooler. US$449-499

They are real as well

Coupled with a conroe (which at the moment is choked by a 7900....your pc would be a monster)

OH and use 2 x 1 gig of ram, that way youll get dual channel ram. Always always try to use two sticks...if you want more than two gig...you use 2 x 2 gig sticks.

I wouldn't touch an Nvidia card on its first run. Look at the 7900GTX's. Substandard or broken memory, BFG, eVGA and XFX all having cards returned, the problem still exists now a year later. The 7950GX2, no real driver support for over a month. There has also been no annoucement on its release date. Could be next year for all we know.

panther3485
09-28-2006, 02:33 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Aimail101:
Wait a month and a bit for the 8800 GTX.... dx10 unified architecture behemoth. Will be far faster than 2 7900s and probably the same price. Advice always buy graphics cards in early or mid life...in the end you will get more use out of them. Buying a 7900 now is a waste of money.

Specs

* Unified Shader Architecture
* Support FP16 HDR+MSAA
* Support GDDR4 memories
* Close to 700M transistors (G71 - 278M / G70 - 302M)
* New AA mode : VCAA
* Core clock scalable up to 1.5GHz
* Shader Peformance : 2x Pixel / 12x Vertex over G71 (48 pixel and 96 vertex *)
* 8 TCPs & 128 stream processors
* Much more efficient than traditional architecture
* 384-bit memory interface (256-bit+128-bit)
* 768MB memory size (512MB+256MB)
* Two models at launch : GeForce 8800GTX and GeForce 8800GT
* GeForce 8800GTX : 7 TCPs chip, 384-bit memory interface, hybrid water/fan cooler, water cooling for overclocking. US$649
* GeForce 8800GT : 6 TCPs chip, 320-bit (256-bit + 64-bit) memory interface, fan cooler. US$449-499

They are real as well

Coupled with a conroe (which at the moment is choked by a 7900....your pc would be a monster)

OH and use 2 x 1 gig of ram, that way youll get dual channel ram. Always always try to use two sticks...if you want more than two gig...you use 2 x 2 gig sticks.

I wouldn't touch an Nvidia card on its first run. Look at the 7900GTX's. Substandard or broken memory, BFG, eVGA and XFX all having cards returned, the problem still exists now a year later. The 7950GX2, no real driver support for over a month. There has also been no annoucement on its release date. Could be next year for all we know. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Inclined to agree here. If you buy 'the latest and the greatest' as soon as it's released, not only do you pay a huge $ premium you can also get the initial teething problems. Wait a while for the issues to be sorted, and the price can drop quite dramatically as well, sometimes in a matter of a few months.

DomJScott
09-28-2006, 03:12 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
Inclined to agree here. If you buy 'the latest and the greatest' as soon as it's released, not only do you pay a huge $ premium you can also get the initial teething problems. Wait a while for the issues to be sorted, and the price can drop quite dramatically as well, sometimes in a matter of a few months.
Totally agree, not just that I wouldn't touch Vista for AT LEAST 6months.. and TBH would only upgrade if I had a game that I really wanted and showed a percievable benefit in DX10.

Your also so right, I picked up my X1800XT for 200, only a 3-4 months after it was released at nearer 350.

ploughman
09-28-2006, 03:36 AM
That's the kind've mathematics I like, last month's Graphics Card for next month's prices.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bummer about the mobo, let us know what you decide on Panther. Seen as I'm barking up a similar tree to you I'm finding this thread quite relevant.

panther3485
09-28-2006, 03:48 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
That's the kind've mathematics I like, last month's Graphics Card for next month's prices.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Bummer about the mobo, let us know what you decide on Panther. Seen as I'm barking up a similar tree to you I'm finding this thread quite relevant.

I'm beginning to re-consider my 'requirement' for SLI, seeing as otherwise, I like that Mobo so much.... Upon reflection, I'm never likely to be able to afford TWO top-end graphics cards, but I could conceivably afford ONE, which, in the 16x slot, could easily prove to be as good as two mid-range jobbies.

I'm on the verge of going ahead regardless, and to hell with SLI... Hmmmm, decisions, decisions! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

TgD Thunderbolt56
09-28-2006, 06:05 AM
Stay with the conroe panther. Even the E6600, which is a couple tiers below the Intel flagship, will run faster than AMD's best. There are plenty SLI capable mobos out there for conroe and more right around the corner. The P5B is a good one. I'll make a list if you want.

Either way, if you decide to go AMD or Intel a new build with fresh components will be nice.


TB

panther3485
09-28-2006, 06:36 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
"Stay with the conroe panther. Even the E6600, which is a couple tiers below the Intel flagship, will run faster than AMD's best."


You're right, and that's what I've decided. E6600 it is!



"Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
"There are plenty SLI capable mobos out there for conroe and more right around the corner. The P5B is a good one. I'll make a list if you want."

That may well be but it's interesting that the link posted by hamselv2 shows only AMD Mobos as being 'SLI Certified' (as opposed to 'SLI capable' - not sure what the difference is). The ASUS P5B Deluxe does not appear to support SLI however; at least, so far as I can see the specs don't mention it - only that it has two PCIE slots!

That said, I like the board and I've decided to buy it. If I can run SLI on it later, fine. If not, that's fine too. I'll just whack a more potent card into the 16x slot.


Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
"Either way, if you decide to go AMD or Intel a new build with fresh components will be nice."

TB

Sure will, and I'm looking forward to it. Some of the parts are coming from another state by courier; the rest from a local dealer. Should have all the bits within about a week, I hope!


Thanks for the input, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Fork-N-spoon
09-28-2006, 09:51 AM
I've never heard of the power supply before, but just by going off numbers on the side of it, it looks ok. It states that its efficiency rating is 81% and that€s above average. Its peak output rating is 25 amps on the 3.3 volt rail, 25 amps on the 5 volt rail, and 38 amps on the 12 volt rail.

In regards to SLI, two cards that cost 500.00 American will not yield the same performance as one top shelf 500.00 dollar card. I€ve seen too many people try it and they were sadly disappointed. They couldn€t wait one month to save up the money for a top end card so they purchased another midrange card down the road. While the performance gain of a top end single GPU isn€t leaps and bounds ahead of two midrange cards, it still boils down to price. That is, if you want killer eye candy and high frames per second, you€re going to have to pay. A single top end GPU would be my choice.

I didn€t look up what you€re paying for your case. I have a €œgood friend€ that€s always whining about not having a good video card. He frequently makes comments about how I always have a good video card. The reason I can afford a top shelf card is because I only pay 25.00 dollars for my case. Most of the time I simply reuse my old case. He on the other hand pays nearly 200.00 for his latest and greatest geeked out transformer looking case. That€s for every new build he does, has to have some 200.00+ dollar case. I always customize my case by cutting two 120mm holes in the bottom and one 120mm hole in the back. Hence I want a cheap case without all the loud fans. The 175.00 I saved on my case went directly into the video card.

If you don€t over clock then it doesn€t much matter. I stopped buying the mid to upper range CPUs a few builds back. I simply couldn€t understand why Intel wanted my to pay 150.00 dollars more for an extra 200Mhz and 300.00 dollars more for another 400Mhz. I buy a good board, the bottom end CPU and then clock it up to whatever it€s stable at on default voltage. It€s usually stable at or near the top end CPU that Intel offers so I save a few hundred extra on that. I€ve been running over clocked CPUs for years and none of them failed. The E6300 is 140.00 dollars cheaper and I frequently see people over clock them to 3.0 €" 3.6Ghz on air-cooling. Both the E6300 and E6400 will have no problems hitting 2.4Ghz on default voltage and air-cooling. The temperatures will be the same as the default frequency. You can read more about this over at this forum.

http://www.ocforums.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2

If you€re after the extra 2mb of cache€¦ It€s a pipe dream unless you€re into bragging rights at some forum for calculating super-pi. I€ve seen a dozen benchmarks and there€s absolutely no difference in performance between the 2mb cache and the 4mb cache provided both CPUs are the same frequency. It€s true that for certain applications the extra cache will help, but if you€re a gamer it won€t.

Well that€s my rant, but remember you did ask for opinions... :\/

Have fun with your new build whatever you may choose.

Airmail109
09-28-2006, 10:21 AM
The 8800 has been taped out for almost 6 months, it is likely when it comes out in novermberish that itll be reliable.

Not only that, even though it is DX10....it will still give massive gains in any DX9 game.

Chivas
09-28-2006, 12:45 PM
Panther

I lost patience waiting for the Nvidia 590SLI chipset that isn't out yet and bought the the P5B Deluxe. The P5B isn't SLI capable but it will overclock the intel cpu with standard air cooling. There are Intel SLI motherboards out there with the two 16x pci-x sockets, with the Nforce 4 chipset.

I'm sure the system your building with Conroe cpu is the best way to go.
I just built a system with a Conroe 6400, P5B Deluxe, 2 gigs of Corsair DDR2 1066, and an BFG 7900GTX that completely blew away my AMD64 3800+ using 2 gigs of DDR memory and the same BFG 7900GTX video card.

Example bench marks using the BlackDeath track and Perfect 1024/768 settings
AMD64 3800+ Av 60 Max 99 Min 26
Conroe 6400 Av 100 Max 137 Min 47

I don't think an AMD SLI system with two 7900GTX will reach those framerates that a Conroe with one 7900GTX can reach. I've never benchmarked an SLI system so take that with a grain of salt. FB code is cpu intensive and it really likes the way the Intel Conroe decifers it.

Anyway your system will be able to run BOB with no problem. If it doesn't Oleg won't be selling to many BOB CD's.

panther3485
09-28-2006, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I've never heard of the power supply before, but just by going off numbers on the side of it, it looks ok. It states that its efficiency rating is 81% and that€s above average. Its peak output rating is 25 amps on the 3.3 volt rail, 25 amps on the 5 volt rail, and 38 amps on the 12 volt rail."

Yes, this PSU is fairly new on the market. I read a couple of reviews/comparisons and it looks like it stacks up pretty well. There are other very good ones, of course; and the Antec unit in my present rig has been great.



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"In regards to SLI, two cards that cost 500.00 American will not yield the same performance as one top shelf 500.00 dollar card. I€ve seen too many people try it and they were sadly disappointed."

I'm tending to agree with your verdict on this, at least in general. And re-thinking things over these last couple of days, I do believe I would find it hard to justify the cost of TWO top-end cards! I can, however, be in a position to purchase ONE such card in 12 months time, less if I cut back on my chocolate bars! And in the meantime, I'll be enjoying a pretty darn good mid-range GPU that, in conjunction with my other hardware choices, should easily handle anything I'll want to do for about a year.

Given these considerations, it's unlikely that going without SLI is really going to hurt me too much. But if I should happen to change my mind, other options will be open to me. [Hint - my PC is but one of three in my household and five in my immediate family that I maintain, repair, upgrade or build! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ]



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"They couldn€t wait one month to save up the money for a top end card so they purchased another midrange card down the road."

Fortunately, I don't suffer from this kind of impatience. If I really want a top end card, I'll get one and if that means saving for a while, I'm happy to do that as well. I just don't think I'm gonna need one to begin with and by the time I do, I'll have the money! [Long as I don't take up any more bad habits! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif ]



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"While the performance gain of a top end single GPU isn€t leaps and bounds ahead of two midrange cards, it still boils down to price. That is, if you want killer eye candy and high frames per second, you€re going to have to pay. A single top end GPU would be my choice."


It'll be mine too, when it's needed. In fact, with the hardware I've selected I've already planned that choice for my first interim upgrade! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I didn€t look up what you€re paying for your case."

I don't see how you could 'look it up', unless you happen to know exactly who I'm buying it from and even then you couldn't be sure (I've negotiated prices on quite a few items and the case is one of them). Yes, it was still pricey but not only will it be a pleasure to own and look at; it will also be a pleasure to work in! It doesn't have see through side panels, lots of flashing blue lights or any of that 'boy gamer' bollocks (just one blue light for the front fan, IIRC); it's just a very good quality high-end case, with a generous internal volume, craploads of drive bays and all the features I want, including a reversible slide-out motherboard tray. It's stylish in a dignified way, without being 'overdone' but above all, it's practical!



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I have a €œgood friend€ that€s always whining about not having a good video card. He frequently makes comments about how I always have a good video card. The reason I can afford a top shelf card is because I only pay 25.00 dollars for my case."

I'm not in such a position myself, but if I needed a top-end card and the only way I could get it was by using a cheap case, then I'd probably do the same as you.


Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"Most of the time I simply reuse my old case."


Excellent! I applaud your ability to economize. Environmentally friendly as well! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Much of my hardware, including cases and PSUs, also get re-used, as 'hand-me-downs' for other family members. My strategy is to use a case for two 'builds' for myself (it's about 30 months planned between each fresh build, so optimally that should be 5 years.) And even if I use a case for only one build, it won't be wasted because somebody in the family will get it afterwards. By the time it gets 'spat out' at the bottom of the food chain, it could easily have served 10 years! [That applies to a lot of my hardware, not just cases.]



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"He on the other hand pays nearly 200.00 for his latest and greatest geeked out transformer looking case. That€s for every new build he does, has to have some 200.00+ dollar case."


If he makes what are, in his situation, such obviously poor choices and complains about the outcome, then he's a dickhead, isn't he?



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I always customize my case by cutting two 120mm holes in the bottom and one 120mm hole in the back. Hence I want a cheap case without all the loud fans. The 175.00 I saved on my case went directly into the video card."

Looks like you've got a great strategy that works well for you and if that's the best way to get the video card you want, when you want it, good on ya, mate! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif




Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"If you don€t over clock then it doesn€t much matter."

If you mean that what can be achieved through overclocking is irrelevant to somebody like me who never overclocks, then I can only agree! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I stopped buying the mid to upper range CPUs a few builds back."

I'm inclined to go for what I believe gives the best 'bang for the buck' and IMHO, that's the CPU I've chosen here. Reviews I've read seem to agree.



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I simply couldn€t understand why Intel wanted my to pay 150.00 dollars more for an extra 200Mhz and 300.00 dollars more for another 400Mhz."

Easy. They charge what they think they can get. When they can't get it any more, the price comes down! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I buy a good board, the bottom end CPU and then clock it up to whatever it€s stable at on default voltage. It€s usually stable at or near the top end CPU that Intel offers so I save a few hundred extra on that. I€ve been running over clocked CPUs for years and none of them failed."

Fine if that works for you. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"The E6300 is 140.00 dollars cheaper and I frequently see people over clock them to 3.0 €" 3.6Ghz on air-cooling. Both the E6300 and E6400 will have no problems hitting 2.4Ghz on default voltage and air-cooling. The temperatures will be the same as the default frequency. You can read more about this over at this forum."


Thanks, but as I've already stated I'm not interested in overclocking. And if I was, and please don't hesitate to correct me if you think I'm wrong, but I believe a mid-high end chip, overclocked as far as it can 'safely' go, should out-perform a low-end chip of the same type, also over-clocked as far as it can 'safely' go? And even if I am wrong about that, it's a moot point because I won't be doing it!"



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"If you€re after the extra 2mb of cache€¦ It€s a pipe dream unless you€re into bragging rights at some forum for calculating super-pi."


Not too sure what you mean by this. Are you saying that having a 4MB cache instead of 2MB is of no practical value? That's not what the magazine reviewers seemed to think. And what the f*** has 'bragging rights' got to do with any of this?



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I€ve seen a dozen benchmarks and there€s absolutely no difference in performance between the 2mb cache and the 4mb cache provided both CPUs are the same frequency. It€s true that for certain applications the extra cache will help, but if you€re a gamer it won€t."

You make some interesting assumptions. In this case, you appear to be assuming that gaming is the ONLY thing I'll be doing! Sure, my rigs are configured for good games performance because I like to do that a lot, but it's far from being my only interest.



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"Well that€s my rant, but remember you did ask for opinions... :\/

Yes I did and thank you very much for your input. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You have helped me to confirm that I've made some very sound choices! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"Have fun with your new build whatever you may choose.

Thanks again, I'm sure I'll do just that!

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
09-28-2006, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Panther
I lost patience waiting for the Nvidia 590SLI chipset that isn't out yet and bought the the P5B Deluxe. The P5B isn't SLI capable but it will overclock the intel cpu with standard air cooling. There are Intel SLI motherboards out there with the two 16x pci-x sockets, with the Nforce 4 chipset.

I'm sure the system your building with Conroe cpu is the best way to go.
I just built a system with a Conroe 6400, P5B Deluxe, 2 gigs of Corsair DDR2 1066, and an BFG 7900GTX that completely blew away my AMD64 3800+ using 2 gigs of DDR memory and the same BFG 7900GTX video card.

Example bench marks using the BlackDeath track and Perfect 1024/768 settings
AMD64 3800+ Av 60 Max 99 Min 26
Conroe 6400 Av 100 Max 137 Min 47

I don't think an AMD SLI system with two 7900GTX will reach those framerates that a Conroe with one 7900GTX can reach. I've never benchmarked an SLI system so take that with a grain of salt. FB code is cpu intensive and it really likes the way the Intel Conroe decifers it.

Anyway your system will be able to run BOB with no problem. If it doesn't Oleg won't be selling to many BOB CD's.

Your system sounds very similar to mine, and performs precisely as I have anticipated, which is very reassuring.

I think mine should be plenty good enough with the E6600 CPU, the 2 Gig of Corsair RAM and a 7600GT video card. In 12 months time, I can chuck in a higher spec GPU as required. If I change my mind about SLI, I can buy a new Mobo in 18-24 months and my son will welcome the ASUS P5B Deluxe with open arms.


Thanks heaps for your input,
And thanks to all of you - you've been great!


Best regards to all, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

P.S. - Will post on how it goes, when I get all the bits!

willyvic
09-29-2006, 01:34 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:

P.S. - Will post on how it goes, when I get all the bits!

Please do. Am shopping a bit also. I'm sold on the Conroe.

Keep us posted.

WV.

-HH-Quazi
09-29-2006, 03:49 AM
Just found this if you are still interested in a 590 chipset supporting SLI:
http://www.evga.com/articles/328.asp

And I can tell you from reading the forums at eVga quite regularly. Stay away from the 7950GX2 or the 7900GX2. Both are having issues in all the nVidia card manufacturers. The 7900GTX is a pretty safe bet these days. And I found a X1900XTX for $369 at Monarch today also. But seeing as it is an SLI mobo you may be getting or wanting, one thing you can do is go with an eVga 7900GTX. They have a step up program where you have 90-days to exchange you current card with another and only pay the difference. Plus their lifetime warrnty allows one to oc, bios flash, and watercool without affecting the lifetime warranty. Another plus is their customer service is the best available with myself already having experienced this. But this may give the 7950GX2 time to teethe. It is an awesome card and quad gpus are something I would love to have. Just be mindful that the DX10 G80 gpus will be released soon. And when they are released, I beleive the prices of the 7950GX2 will go down quite a bit.

Sergio_101
09-29-2006, 04:01 AM
Putting a 7600 on that rig is like leaving a cork in a bottle.
Go for the 7900.

Sergio

panther3485
09-29-2006, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by Sergio_101:
"Putting a 7600 on that rig is like leaving a cork in a bottle. Go for the 7900."

.....which would appear to be almost the opposite of where I am now with my P4, and Mobo with AGP slot, when I could replace my 6800 with a 7900 (if I can locate one) and it would be the CPU holding up the show?

Anyway, it's kinda too late now because all the bits were ordered this morning and are (presumably) on the way.

While the 7600GT may not 'make the most' of my new system by any means, I'm calculating that the combo will still offer a large forward leap in performance over my current rig. It should be at the very least adequate for my needs for about a year, after which I can shell out the sheckels for something hotter! And it's not as if the 7600GT will be 'wasted' after 12 months service (I have a financially strapped friend who will most likely eagerly snap it up). And whatever is close to 'top drawer' by September 2007 is what I'm planning to get, with x$ per fortnight being squirreled away starting from the first payday this October!

So, no fears must you have, young padewan - unfold as it should all will! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

ploughman
09-29-2006, 05:40 AM
What was the damage?

If it's not a personal question.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 05:57 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
What was the damage?

If it's not a personal question.

Well, the budget my Missus allowed me was A$2,500.00 which was not unreasonable really, considering I'm keeping my present monitor, keyboard, mouse, joystick, printer etc.... so that budget all goes 'into the box', so to speak. I came in at A$2,456.75, and there was a small surcharge on a few of the items purchased from my local dealer - A$8.50 all up (but most parts are coming from another state).

That gives a final total of A$2,465.25

Not being conversant with current exchange rates, not too sure what that translates to in Pommy quids....

Can type up itemised if you are that curious. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

panther3485
09-29-2006, 06:37 AM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Just found this if you are still interested in a 590 chipset supporting SLI:
http://www.evga.com/articles/328.asp

And I can tell you from reading the forums at eVga quite regularly. Stay away from the 7950GX2 or the 7900GX2. Both are having issues in all the nVidia card manufacturers. The 7900GTX is a pretty safe bet these days. And I found a X1900XTX for $369 at Monarch today also. But seeing as it is an SLI mobo you may be getting or wanting, one thing you can do is go with an eVga 7900GTX. They have a step up program where you have 90-days to exchange you current card with another and only pay the difference. Plus their lifetime warrnty allows one to oc, bios flash, and watercool without affecting the lifetime warranty. Another plus is their customer service is the best available with myself already having experienced this. But this may give the 7950GX2 time to teethe. It is an awesome card and quad gpus are something I would love to have. Just be mindful that the DX10 G80 gpus will be released soon. And when they are released, I beleive the prices of the 7950GX2 will go down quite a bit.

Thanks for that, mate.

I reckon by the time I get around to upgrading my GPU, the 7950GX2 will either be sorted out or dumped. More likely, sorted out. Chances are, there'll be something quite a bit better by then anyway. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

ploughman
09-29-2006, 06:55 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ploughman:
What was the damage?

If it's not a personal question.

Well, the budget my Missus allowed me was A$2,500.00 which was not unreasonable really, considering I'm keeping my present monitor, keyboard, mouse, joystick, printer etc.... so that budget all goes 'into the box', so to speak. I came in at A$2,456.75, and there was a small surcharge on a few of the items purchased from my local dealer - A$8.50 all up (but most parts are coming from another state).

That gives a final total of A$2,465.25

Not being conversant with current exchange rates, not too sure what that translates to in Pommy quids....

Can type up itemised if you are that curious. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If it'd be no bother I'd appreciate a break down. I'll probably go for different graphics card, who knows what'll be the business in four or so months, and I might go a differrent way on the mobo, just to have the SLI option, but otherwise, you've got what I want.

Cheers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Your spend of A$2,456.75 comes to about 980.00. Which is just about my budget.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Cheers.

PS. I did a quick add up and, with a 7900 it came out at a bit over 1,050.00. I'm sure time and some searching'll get that well south of 1,000 by the New Year.

That RAM's not so cheap is it?

panther3485
09-29-2006, 08:13 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
"If it'd be no bother I'd appreciate a break down."

No worries. I'll make a separate post of that shortly. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif



Originally posted by Ploughman:
"I'll probably go for different graphics card, who knows what'll be the business in four or so months, and I might go a different way on the mobo, just to have the SLI option, but otherwise, you've got what I want."

In four or so months it should all be cheaper, except maybe the RAM, so even after that relatively short wait you should be able to 'up spec' me a bit! Sounds like you've thought it through pretty good. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



Originally posted by Ploughman:
"PS. I did a quick add up and, with a 7900 it came out at a bit over 1,050.00. I'm sure time and some searching'll get that well south of 1,000 by the New Year."

I'm sure you'll have no trouble meeting that! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Graphics cards in particular seem to be more expensive in Oz than US (not sure about UK) and some of my mates order from the USA if they're buying a top-end card. Even with the freight it still works out cheaper apparently, so that's the way I may go when the time comes.



Originally posted by Ploughman:
"That RAM's not so cheap is it?"

No, it's pretty pricey stuff. The dealers all tell me that RAM prices in general have actually been going UP recently.

Some tell me there's no real point in buying Corsair or other 'special' brands because they are no better than the 'generic' stuff like Hynix or Legend. Maybe they're right, but some info I've read suggests that a matched pair of Corsair sticks is likely to be of a more consistently high quality, 'better tuned', if you like to put it that way.

Whether or not this is worth the extra $ might be subjective, I think. At the moment, my son is running 1 Gig of Corsair DDR400 to my 2 Gig of Hynix DDR400 and we've got different mobos so comparison wasn't easy. I did swap the Corsair into my rig for a test, then tested again with 1 Gig of Hynix and there was only a very slight drop (one that many 'ordinary' users wouldn't notice at all, I might add, which is part of the reason for what some were telling me). That difference might have been a bit more in a higher spec rig, but then it might not so I'm taking a bit of a 'punt' on that one, choosing Corsair for my new rig, HOPING it'll be of benefit.

Your call! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Monty_Thrud
09-29-2006, 08:28 AM
Is there a reason to not use the 10,000rpm HD?, is there a reliability problem?

dbillo
09-29-2006, 08:55 AM
Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"In regards to SLI, two cards that cost 500.00 American will not yield the same performance as one top shelf 500.00 dollar card. I€ve seen too many people try it and they were sadly disappointed."

I'm tending to agree with your verdict on this, at least in general. And re-thinking things over these last couple of days, I do believe I would find it hard to justify the cost of TWO top-end cards! I can, however, be in a position to purchase ONE such card in 12 months time, less if I cut back on my chocolate bars! And in the meantime, I'll be enjoying a pretty darn good mid-range GPU that, in conjunction with my other hardware choices, should easily handle anything I'll want to do for about a year.

Given these considerations, it's unlikely that going without SLI is really going to hurt me too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm no expert on SLI, but what I've read is that it really doesn't come into it's own until you get to higher resolutions with AA and AF. If you plan on running 1600x1200 or higher, then the SLI might be more of a benefit, whereas if you are going to be running 1280x900, then perhaps not.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 10:08 AM
Originally posted by Monty_Thrud:
Is there a reason to not use the 10,000rpm HD?, is there a reliability problem?

I'm not aware of any really bad reliability problems but others here may have heard of some.

I already have two 74Gig 10,000RPM Raptors in my present rig and could easily swap them into the new rig as an option (but then, this rig is going to my Son and I'd have to find another drive/s.) They're SATA1, of course (as opposed to the SATA2 of the ones I've ordered) and I believe also 8MB cache (as opposed to the 16MB of the newer drives) but I don't know how much difference that would really make. IIRC you can get newer Raptors with the bigger cache and SATA2 but from what I've seen, they are noticeably more expensive, particularly if you want a decent capacity.

And then it's the question; how much difference does it make for the extra $ spent? After using the Raptors in my current rig, I reckon very little.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 10:13 AM
Originally posted by dbillo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by panther3485:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"In regards to SLI, two cards that cost 500.00 American will not yield the same performance as one top shelf 500.00 dollar card. I€ve seen too many people try it and they were sadly disappointed."

I'm tending to agree with your verdict on this, at least in general. And re-thinking things over these last couple of days, I do believe I would find it hard to justify the cost of TWO top-end cards! I can, however, be in a position to purchase ONE such card in 12 months time, less if I cut back on my chocolate bars! And in the meantime, I'll be enjoying a pretty darn good mid-range GPU that, in conjunction with my other hardware choices, should easily handle anything I'll want to do for about a year.

Given these considerations, it's unlikely that going without SLI is really going to hurt me too much. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I'm no expert on SLI, but what I've read is that it really doesn't come into it's own until you get to higher resolutions with AA and AF. If you plan on running 1600x1200 or higher, then the SLI might be more of a benefit, whereas if you are going to be running 1280x900, then perhaps not. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes, from what I've read I think that's the way it goes. SLI is really good for the higher end of the resolution range but makes less difference the lower you go, IIRC.

Generally, I only play games at either one of two resolutions. 1280x960 (my native desktop resolution) or 1600x1200. At the latter resolution on my monitor, the image quality is so good I've not really yet had the urge to go higher, so I'm right on the 'cusp' of the point you speak of.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 10:19 AM
Hi Ploughman,

Following is an itemised list of what I€ve ordered (all prices in A$):


From Interstate dealer by courier delivery:
(No freight charge)

Case
CoolerMaster CM Stacker 810 Silver - 216.10

Case accessory
CoolerMaster Stacker 4-in-3 Device - 23.00

PSU
CoolerMaster iGreen Power 600W - 175.00

Mobo
ASUS P5B Deluxe P965 chipset 1066FSB - 343.75

RAM
2GB Corsair PC6400 800MHz (2 x 1GB kit) - 470.00

Hard Drive
2 x Western Digital 160GB 16MB cache - 238.00

OS
Windows XP Home with SP2 OEM - 139.00
(Note: Not for use in my new rig; I€ll be using my current XP Pro with SP2 and this replaces it on the oldest rig after €˜hand-me-down€)

TOTAL FOR THIS DEALER - 1,604.85


From local dealer, over the counter:
(Add 1 percent surcharge to total)

CPU
Intel Core2 Duo E6600 - 495.00

Graphics card
ASUS EN7600GT 256MB - 255.35

DVD-ROM (Black)
Lite-on 16X DVD, 48X CD-ROM - 33.25

DVD-RW
LG GSA-H10 DVD+R/-R/RAM Dual Layer - 50.31

Floppy drive (Black)
Alps 1.44MB - 18.00

TOTAL FOR THIS DEALER - 851.91
1 PERCENT SURCHARGE - 8.50


OVERALL TOTAL - 2,465.26


In relation to the above, please bear in mind the following:

(1) I try whenever possible not to purchase parts from too many different dealers to build a rig, as this results in increased costs from freight and/or my own running around, time and communications, which can easily nullify gains from finding lower prices. If possible, one dealer is good; two at the most is OK; three at a pinch.

(2) As a €˜rule of thumb€, my ethic is to do business with a local (Western Australian) dealer, in preference to a dealer from another Australian State, provided that doing so does not incur a large price disadvantage.

(3) Then, I will do business with any Australian dealer in preference to any overseas dealer, again provided that doing so does not incur a large price disadvantage.

(4) My approach this time was to check out three local dealers and three Australian Interstate dealers for the best prices I could find in Australia only.

(5) This was then narrowed down to the overall cheapest local dealer and the overall cheapest Interstate dealer. Each of these was asked to match or beat his respective competitors on any items that were cheaper from said competitors. Each duly obliged, to produce the prices shown above.

(6) Interestingly, my local dealer was cheaper than all three of the Australian Interstate dealers for the CPU and the ASUS graphics card €" the latter being unusual to say the least! I didn€t bother making comparisons for the optical drives as these are pretty darn cheap anyway, wherever you look, so he got those as well.

(7) Further, the Interstate dealer I chose had a €˜Deliver anywhere in Australia free on orders over $1,500.00€ clause, as well as the more usual €˜Guaranteed to match or beat any of our local competitors€.

(8) Finally, in this case, I have spent less than the usual amount of time searching as the decision to build now was made as a result of an unexpected bonus and I wish to complete the build while still on holiday if possible. This was a further disincentive to buy from an overseas dealer and no doubt a more extensive search would have enabled me to find even lower prices on some items (as some of you are bound to point out to me with great pleasure, I€m sure). But I€ll live with that.


Hope that helps,
Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

EAF19_Aceman
09-29-2006, 10:20 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

ploughman
09-29-2006, 10:52 AM
Thanks Panther, I appreciate the time you've taken to explain your strategy for your new build. Being a newcomer to self-assembly it's good (and re-assuring, I'd hate to build a lemon) to get the sort of feed back you and the other guys on the the thread have given.

Some of the SLI feedback makes me wonder if it's really necessary at this point. I'll have to think about it some more.

crazyivan1970
09-29-2006, 10:54 AM
Good choices mate. not sure about PSU tho... 600 is kinda low for dual cards. 650-700 will give you enough umph http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

My choice would be OCZ OCZ700GXSSLI GameXStream 700W. Cheaper too and proven to be reliable. But that just me.

BTW, E6600 was easily overclocked on liquid to 4.1 Ghz by troll2k. So being same architecture as 6700 it`s more then capable to do the job.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 11:12 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
"Good choices mate. not sure about PSU tho... 600 is kinda low for dual cards. 650-700 will give you enough umph http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
My choice would be OCZ OCZ700GXSSLI GameXStream 700W. Cheaper too and proven to be reliable. But that just me."

Yeah, that's a good suggestion - except that in this Mobo, I won't be running SLI. Single card only. And very few Australian dealers seem to stock much in the way of PSU's over 600W. I think I might have to go overseas for that unit.

If I change my mind about SLI later, my son would no doubt love a PSU upgrade (480W up to 600W) to go with his Mobo upgrade (Intel D875 socket 478 up to ASUS P5B Deluxe LGA775).



Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
"BTW, E6600 was easily overclocked on liquid to 4.1 Ghz by troll2k. So being same architecture as 6700 it`s more then capable to do the job."

Yeah, I figured as much! Nice to know, even though I don't intend to do it.


Thanks for the input,
Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

crazyivan1970
09-29-2006, 11:18 AM
You dont need to go that high with it... but, with stock fan you should be able to OC it to 3-3.2 ghz at will. Duo`s are generally run much cooler then other CPUs on the market. Running it at stock speed is kinda shame mate. Those things are born to be overclocked lol.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 11:27 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You dont need to go that high with it... but, with stock fan you should be able to OC it to 3-3.2 ghz at will. Duo`s are generally run much cooler then other CPUs on the market. Running it at stock speed is kinda shame mate. Those things are born to be overclocked lol.

I see your point, and you're not the first to point out that these chips can do it very easily. Food for thought there; I may just have to change my mind about overclocking, at least in this case. In about a year, when I swap out my 7600GT for something with extremely large testicles, it may be worth giving it a go and folks tell me the Mobo I've chosen is very good for it as well. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Thanks again, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

crazyivan1970
09-29-2006, 11:32 AM
In about a year, when I swap out my 7600GT for something with extremely large testicles

Make sure it will fit in the case http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

panther3485
09-29-2006, 11:38 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
"Thanks Panther, I appreciate the time you've taken to explain your strategy for your new build. Being a newcomer to self-assembly it's good (and re-assuring, I'd hate to build a lemon) to get the sort of feed back you and the other guys on the thread have given."

No wuckers, mate! I'm a relative newcomer myself, as this will only be my second full build and in the case of the first the CPU was already installed on the Mobo so that was, like, a 95 percent (5 percent cheating!)

I've become a lot bolder and more confident now, though, and what with starting to re-consider my previously inflexible stance on o/cing I may become bolder still! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif



Originally posted by Ploughman:
"Some of the SLI feedback makes me wonder if it's really necessary at this point. I'll have to think about it some more."

Yeah, know where you're coming from. In a general sense, keeping your options as open as possible is smart but....
to get the real benefit of SLI, I reckon you need TWO top-end cards, otherwise a single top-ender is as good as or better than two midrange units.

Conclusion: SLI seems just about pointless to me now, unless I can be confident of being able to afford two 'beasts', which seems unlikely.

That said, if I change my mind about this in a year or two, I've got certain advantages that make me lucky (the hand-me-down family shuffle!)
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

-HH-Quazi
09-29-2006, 11:49 AM
Well, the $2500 in AUD is the equivalent of $1865 in USD. And for $1865 USD, I could put together a dream machine including a monitor purchase and with a 7900GTX. I know you shopped around and got the competitors to beat the others prices, but GEESH! These blokes are getting a blasted mint! But even so, it is shaping up nicely m8. Congrats!

mazexx
09-29-2006, 11:57 AM
You guys thinking about the Nvidia G80 chip (8800GT/8800GTX) should really wait for the ATI R600 chip to hit the market in january/february. From the specs at least it looks like it will leave the G80 in the dust far behind... Nvidia is just rushing the G80 out now to get some sales before the R600 (even though they have the crown right now with the 7900 GX2).

/Mazex

panther3485
09-29-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Well, the $2500 in AUD is the equivalent of $1865 in USD. And for $1865 USD, I could put together a dream machine including a monitor purchase and with a 7900GTX. I know you shopped around and got the competitors to beat the others prices, but GEESH! These blokes are getting a blasted mint! But even so, it is shaping up nicely m8. Congrats!

You have a point, of course.

But I also believe that the US market is going to enjoy lower prices for hardware anyway. Looks like your advantage is even greater than I thought.

Of course, 300 million people, compared with 20 million spread across a country nearly as big.

Sure, the Australian dealers are making a good profit (as all dealers do) but I'd be prepared to bet that some of their costs have to be significantly higher too. Our domestic market is much smaller, much more thinly spread and more scattered.

Anyway, thanks for the good wishes. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Jaws2002
09-29-2006, 12:02 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You dont need to go that high with it... but, with stock fan you should be able to OC it to 3-3.2 ghz at will. Duo`s are generally run much cooler then other CPUs on the market. Running it at stock speed is kinda shame mate. Those things are born to be overclocked lol.


I completely agree with Ivan. Those Core two duo beg for overclocking. You don't have to go to extreme with water cooling and othe things. With stock cooling this CPU's go to three Gigs without a sweat.

Check this tests here:
http://www.techspot.com/article/13-intel-core2duo-e6300-e6700-overclocking/


Good choice not to go after the E6700. Unless you are a "Ultimate hardware" freak E6600 is plenty. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Real word tests:

http://www.techspot.com/article/13-intel-core2duo-e6300...rclocking/page6.html (http://www.techspot.com/article/13-intel-core2duo-e6300-e6700-overclocking/page6.html)

Syntetic tests:
http://www.techspot.com/articles-info/12/bench/Synthetic_01.png

http://www.techspot.com/article/13-intel-core2duo-e6300...rclocking/page5.html (http://www.techspot.com/article/13-intel-core2duo-e6300-e6700-overclocking/page5.html)

Airmail109
09-29-2006, 12:05 PM
Actually looks like the G80s gonna have a LOT more unified pipes than the R600, so itll be close.

Chivas
09-29-2006, 12:14 PM
Originally posted by -HH-Quazi:
Just found this if you are still interested in a 590 chipset supporting SLI:
http://www.evga.com/articles/328.asp

And I can tell you from reading the forums at eVga quite regularly. Stay away from the 7950GX2 or the 7900GX2. Both are having issues in all the nVidia card manufacturers. The 7900GTX is a pretty safe bet these days. And I found a X1900XTX for $369 at Monarch today also. But seeing as it is an SLI mobo you may be getting or wanting, one thing you can do is go with an eVga 7900GTX. They have a step up program where you have 90-days to exchange you current card with another and only pay the difference. Plus their lifetime warrnty allows one to oc, bios flash, and watercool without affecting the lifetime warranty. Another plus is their customer service is the best available with myself already having experienced this. But this may give the 7950GX2 time to teethe. It is an awesome card and quad gpus are something I would love to have. Just be mindful that the DX10 G80 gpus will be released soon. And when they are released, I beleive the prices of the 7950GX2 will go down quite a bit.

I was waiting for the Intel 590SLI motherboards for my new system. They were to appear earlier this month but a major componant problem delayed them. Not sure when they will be up for sale.

Anyway being so impatient I bought the Asus P5B Deluxe for a single gpu, knowing this board allowed extensive and easy overclocking of the Conroe Cpu. I was so blown away by performance of the Conroe and a single gpu that I may hold off building an SLI system for quite sometime.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by Jaws2002:
"I completely agree with Ivan. Those Core two duo beg for overclocking. You don't have to go to extreme with water cooling and othe things. With stock cooling this CPU's go to three Gigs without a sweat."

So many of you guys have said this now, and posted links, I'm convinced already that it is not only feasible but safe. At some point, I may just give it a try.



Originally posted by Jaws2002:
"Good choice not to go after the E6700. Unless you are a "Ultimate hardware" freak E6600 is plenty." http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

If my funds were a lot more plentiful, I could easily see myself becoming an 'Ultimate Hardware' freak but with a Wife, family and mortgage I'm forced to be realistic! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

panther3485
09-29-2006, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
"....Anyway being so impatient I bought the Asus P5B Deluxe for a single gpu, knowing this board allowed extensive and easy overclocking of the Conroe Cpu. I was so blown away by performance of the Conroe and a single gpu that I may hold off building an SLI system for quite sometime."

Absolute music to my ears (eyes?), Chivas! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Chivas
09-29-2006, 12:29 PM
Anyone have a link with detail description of overclocking the Conroe on the Asus P5b Deluxe.

I've read that many have overclocked the 6400 to 3.5 gigs on stock air coolers. I'm a novice at overclocking. My initial attempt worked very well setting the FSB at 300 with an 8x multipler and DDR2 1000. Which overclocked from stock 2.1 to 2.4. I know they drop the multiplyer and increase the FSB to say 400x8=2.8gig 500x7=3.5 gigs etc, but I need more detailed info. I do have some Corsair DDR2 1066 5 5 5 15 memory that should allow for some overclocking.

Chivas
09-29-2006, 04:30 PM
Just read today the the Asus P5B Deluxe will accept the new 4core Kentfield Intel cpus. That maybe a nice upgrade path when the time comes, if BOB's code is optimised for multi-core cpus.

panther3485
09-29-2006, 10:08 PM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Just read today the the Asus P5B Deluxe will accept the new 4core Kentfield Intel cpus. That maybe a nice upgrade path when the time comes, if BOB's code is optimised for multi-core cpus.

Anyone ever tell you what a beautiful voice (hand? pen? keyboard?) you've got, Chivas? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Jaws2002
09-30-2006, 12:10 AM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Anyone have a link with detail description of overclocking the Conroe on the Asus P5b Deluxe.

I've read that many have overclocked the 6400 to 3.5 gigs on stock air coolers. I'm a novice at overclocking. My initial attempt worked very well setting the FSB at 300 with an 8x multipler and DDR2 1000. Which overclocked from stock 2.1 to 2.4. I know they drop the multiplyer and increase the FSB to say 400x8=2.8gig 500x7=3.5 gigs etc, but I need more detailed info. I do have some Corsair DDR2 1066 5 5 5 15 memory that should allow for some overclocking.


I think you can find a lot of info on Extreme Systems forums:
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=115217


and if you run into problems some fixes and trobleshooting here:

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=112648

Chivas
09-30-2006, 01:02 AM
Thanks Jaws

That first link might be just the ticket.

~Salute~

Chivas

willyvic
10-01-2006, 07:53 PM
Bump, so i don't forget to check on panthers' progress.

panther3485
10-03-2006, 10:22 AM
Originally posted by willyvic:
Bump, so i don't forget to check on panthers' progress.

Bump again.

Today, I picked up the CPU, GPU, optical drives and floppy drive from my local dealer, as well as the new 19" Samsung for my son.

The remaining parts for my new rig should be in transit from another state. I was advised anything from 2-8 days before they arrive.

Will keep you informed.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-03-2006, 11:32 AM
Well, as I'm in the same boat Chivas was in (i.e. impatiently waiting for Intel 590 mobo), I have all these wonderful new components sitting under my desk waiting for a legitimate mobo. A buddy of mine built almost the identical rig with the P5B and he loves it.

You guys keep this up and I'll have to cave in and get something I can use now. Gawd, I'd hate to rip it all out in another month or so though and do it all over again.

TB

panther3485
10-03-2006, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Well, as I'm in the same boat Chivas was in (i.e. impatiently waiting for Intel 590 mobo), I have all these wonderful new components sitting under my desk waiting for a legitimate mobo. A buddy of mine built almost the identical rig with the P5B and he loves it.

You guys keep this up and I'll have to cave in and get something I can use now. Gawd, I'd hate to rip it all out in another month or so though and do it all over again.

TB

Mate, do what you like with yours but once this baby of mine is built, I shouldn't have to be rippin' nothin out for 12 months, and even then that'll only be the video card!
(But I've got a good fallback plan, in the unlikely event of a change of mind between 12-24 months. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

All I need is to not make any serious ****-ups and for everything to work properly!


Best regards http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

TgD Thunderbolt56
10-03-2006, 11:45 AM
Well, my upgrade path was to be quad-sli (currently have a XFX7950GX2) and potentially a quad-cpu next year. This being my 8th build, I like to have at least a vague path of where I'm going. That prevents a good bit of backtracking. Though nothing is certain, it's served me well.

It sounds as though you have done your compatibility research and have made some good choices. For this game (and any in the immediate future), you're in good shape.

TB

panther3485
10-03-2006, 08:36 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Well, my upgrade path was to be quad-sli (currently have a XFX7950GX2) and potentially a quad-cpu next year. This being my 8th build, I like to have at least a vague path of where I'm going. That prevents a good bit of backtracking. Though nothing is certain, it's served me well.

It sounds as though you have done your compatibility research and have made some good choices. For this game (and any in the immediate future), you're in good shape.

TB

Yep, but your ideas sound pretty good too. It's just that for myself, I've made the 'strategic' decision to forgo SLI for this build. Couple of years down the track, I've other options open if the landscape changes sufficiently.

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Chivas
10-03-2006, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
Well, as I'm in the same boat Chivas was in (i.e. impatiently waiting for Intel 590 mobo), I have all these wonderful new components sitting under my desk waiting for a legitimate mobo. A buddy of mine built almost the identical rig with the P5B and he loves it.

You guys keep this up and I'll have to cave in and get something I can use now. Gawd, I'd hate to rip it all out in another month or so though and do it all over again.

TB

I expected the Intel 590SLI to come out about an hour after I bought the P5B Deluxe. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Like I said before the frames are so good with the Conroe and single gpu that I may be able to run BOB quite well as is. Time will tell.

The rumor is the Intel 590SLI board from Asus will have an PPU slot as well as two PCIx16 SLI slots. That could be one fast board for flight simming depending how the physic card implementation pans out.

ploughman
10-09-2006, 12:31 PM
So, you got all your bits yet? I'm dyin' over here.

timholt
10-10-2006, 02:10 AM
Panther, keith@dracomputing.com in Adelaide is currenlty putting a new rig together for me with a Thermaltake 680 Watt Silent Surepower"power supply.
I think the cost was around the A$200 mark.
that along with;
Thermaltake Soprano case
P5N32-SLI-SE-Deluxe
2 x 1Gb Legend DDR11 Dskt 800 CL6 Maj 3rd
Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4Ghz Intel CPU
ASUS CF7950GT, 512Mb HDTV
CAVAIR 250Gb SE16/SATA11/7200RPM/16Mb
BenQ FP93GX 19" 2msGTG DVI monitor
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music PCI
TrackIR4 Pro
Cordless keyboard and mouse
He will build and completely set up at home and gives a 3 year parts and labour warranty
for an all up price of A$3,900.
This guy built my current rig 4 years ago and replaced a memory card, hard drive and joystick under his 3 year warranty argument free.

Chivas
10-10-2006, 10:37 AM
Tim....your gonna love the Conroe cpu ... it makes FB fly...and you will be able to run BOB nicely aswell.

panther3485
10-11-2006, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
So, you got all your bits yet? I'm dyin' over here.

You're dyin' and I'm in the mood to kill.

Yesterday, 10 October, the Australian Air Express courier van pulls up in my driveway, right? So I stand in the doorway with a big grin on my face, signing for two large parcels, right?

Then I open the parcels and everything is there, right?

Trouble is the f***ing tossers sent me the wrong f***ing mobo! I specifically ordered and paid for an ASUS P5B Deluxe, but they sent me the standard P5B.

I returned the mobo today but will apparently be waiting 2-4 days for the replacement to turn up.

Otherwise, everything looks good but I can't even start on the assembly without the mobo!

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

ploughman
10-11-2006, 03:23 AM
Wow, bummer moment that, I feel for you mate.


http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

panther3485
10-11-2006, 08:28 PM
Originally posted by timholt:
Panther, keith@dracomputing.com in Adelaide is currenlty putting a new rig together for me with a Thermaltake 680 Watt Silent Surepower"power supply.
I think the cost was around the A$200 mark.
that along with;
Thermaltake Soprano case
P5N32-SLI-SE-Deluxe
2 x 1Gb Legend DDR11 Dskt 800 CL6 Maj 3rd
Core 2 Duo E6600 2.4Ghz Intel CPU
ASUS CF7950GT, 512Mb HDTV
CAVAIR 250Gb SE16/SATA11/7200RPM/16Mb
BenQ FP93GX 19" 2msGTG DVI monitor
Creative X-Fi Xtreme Music PCI
TrackIR4 Pro
Cordless keyboard and mouse
He will build and completely set up at home and gives a 3 year parts and labour warranty
for an all up price of A$3,900.
This guy built my current rig 4 years ago and replaced a memory card, hard drive and joystick under his 3 year warranty argument free.

timholt, that seems like a darn good rig you are a-gettin yourself there! What you've specified (including having it built and the warranty), at around four grand is about what I'd expect - minus a bit perhaps - so I reckon you should be very pleased with that. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

I was very happy with the last rig I had built for me, but I wanna be a self-builder now, if only for the personal satisfaction I get.

Of course, there's always the chance I could make a serious c***-up of it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif but I've taken my learning in stages over the last few years, doing more and more for myself until I reached the point I'm at now. (The last rig, my wife's current machine, was about 95 percent built by me so I count that as my first self-build).


Enjoy your new machine (I'll get started as soon as the @#$% motherboard arrives!)

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

-HH-Quazi
10-11-2006, 09:07 PM
Looks like I need to get into building computers on the side. For that kind of money, I could give a 3yr warranty to replace any component & offer free labor. And if you lived in my neck of the woods, I wouldn't have a problem building & warrantying it on site. Shoot, I could probably offer free shipping back. HEHE

Looks like a goodun m8! Congrats!

ZappaTime
10-20-2006, 01:52 PM
If you are using Sata2 (or maybe even Sata) drives and you want all their features available, make sure you install the drivers from a floppy, (off your asus cd), right at the start of your windows installation.

I think its an 'F6 key' option you get asked on the first or so blue screen of the windows install (XP) about adding 3rd party drivers, or something - can't quite remember. If you skip this, once windows has installed there's no (guaranteed) way of activating all the enhanced features of your (potentially) fast drives, other than by re-installing windows.

A quick Google on 'P5B deluxe' and SATA2 drivers should find you a whole load of forum hits on this very subject. Some people managed to activate the enhancements after windows install, but most didn't. I think it applies to all Intel 965 chipset motherboards, not just this asus board.

Apologies if you know this already, but I fell foul of it, so thought it worth mentioning before you go too far into adding all drivers and utils and all the other stuff we all end up putting on the pc to get it the way we want it.

panther3485
10-20-2006, 02:13 PM
Originally posted by ZappaTime:
If you are using Sata2 (or maybe even Sata) drives and you want all their features available, make sure you install the drivers from a floppy, (off your asus cd), right at the start of your windows installation.

I think its an 'F6 key' option you get asked on the first or so blue screen of the windows install (XP) about adding 3rd party drivers, or something - can't quite remember. If you skip this, once windows has installed there's no (guaranteed) way of activating all the enhanced features of your (potentially) fast drives, other than by re-installing windows.

A quick Google on 'P5B deluxe' and SATA2 drivers should find you a whole load of forum hits on this very subject. Some people managed to activate the enhancements after windows install, but most didn't. I think it applies to all Intel 965 chipset motherboards, not just this asus board.

Apologies if you know this already, but I fell foul of it, so thought it worth mentioning before you go too far into adding all drivers and utils and all the other stuff we all end up putting on the pc to get it the way we want it.

Thanks, ZappaTime - I was already aware of a very similar process in one sense at least, as I've had a fair bit of experience setting up RAID. You HAVE to install the drivers from a floppy, very early in the Windows setup process. I wasn't aware of any requirement to do this for SATA2 features, however, so I'll look into that one! (Too bad I've already installed Windows but it won't hurt me to go back over the whole process - it's a learning curve, eh?)

If anyone has any more detailed info about this, and exactly what SATA2 features won't work if you skip that part of the process, I'd be happy to hear from them! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

brimigus
10-20-2006, 09:09 PM
Might want to wait just a few more months.We'll all have to buy new vid cards for dirct x 10 anyway.

panther3485
10-21-2006, 12:17 AM
Episode 5 - The Motherboard.

Part 5C: Mobo fitted & prepare for next steps.

The following four pics show how things should look when the Motherboard fit has been completed.


First, looking to the back of the case at the I/O shield.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/IOshield.jpg



Second, an overall view into the case showing where the Motherboard has finished up.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/Moboin.jpg
We now get a true impression of just how much room there is inside this case. It's cavernous!



The last two pics are closer views from different angles. In them, you'll notice that the CPU, Fan/Heatsink combo and RAM have all 'mysteriously appeared', without my having posted any pics of how these things were done! Reason?

Well, two reasons, really. First, I'll give you the logical reason, then the emotional one.

Logical Reason: The documentation that accompanies the Motherboard and CPU is, in both cases, so well written and illustrated that neither of these steps needs to be fully explained here.

Emotional Reason: The day my mobo arrived, I got carried away with a burst of enthusiasm and energy, completing these steps without taking any pics!



http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/CPURAMadded1.jpg


Seriously though, the docs I got were VERY GOOD and the coverage for fitting the CPU, fan/heatsink and RAM really was just about perfect. You shouldn't have any problems as long as you take care and follow the instructions.



http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/CPURAMadded2.jpg



However, just in case there are lingering doubts in anyone's mind, I'll write a quick piece for my next post, summarizing the sequence and the main points to look out for.

That'll be Episodes 6 & 7 (CPU & RAM) together for my next post in this story.


Catch yers all again soon http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
10-23-2006, 09:23 AM
Originally posted by ZappaTime:
If you are using Sata2 (or maybe even Sata) drives and you want all their features available, make sure you install the drivers from a floppy, (off your asus cd), right at the start of your windows installation.

I think its an 'F6 key' option you get asked on the first or so blue screen of the windows install (XP) about adding 3rd party drivers, or something - can't quite remember. If you skip this, once windows has installed there's no (guaranteed) way of activating all the enhanced features of your (potentially) fast drives, other than by re-installing windows.

A quick Google on 'P5B deluxe' and SATA2 drivers should find you a whole load of forum hits on this very subject. Some people managed to activate the enhancements after windows install, but most didn't. I think it applies to all Intel 965 chipset motherboards, not just this asus board.

Apologies if you know this already, but I fell foul of it, so thought it worth mentioning before you go too far into adding all drivers and utils and all the other stuff we all end up putting on the pc to get it the way we want it.

ZappaTime, I searched the P5B Deluxe Motherboard Support CD and couldn't find any drivers labelled as being specifically for SATA/SATA1/SATA2. Would you happen to know if these are included with the RAID drivers (which I have already installed)? If not, where else could I find them? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

WOLFMondo
10-23-2006, 09:47 AM
I definately like that case and might buy it when I get my new kit mid next year.

For the SATA2 drivers, I'd just hit the website of the chipset manufacturer to get them. Like with Nvidia chipsets, don't even bother going to the motherboard manufacturer site, just get them from Nvidia instead.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Cheers!!

ZappaTime
10-23-2006, 09:51 AM
If you've installed the raid drivers (at the early 'F6' screen in the windows install) I think you will have covered it correctly. My problem was I didn't do that as I thought I wouldn't be using raid, but in not doing so I believe I limited the drives performance (no NCQ support etc). Still never mind. Good luck, your rig should 'fly' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

panther3485
10-23-2006, 10:34 AM
Episode 6 - Installing the CPU and the Heatsink/Fan combination.

Part 6A: Installing the CPU.

Until quite recently, this was one of the few 'physical' things I had not previously done, so I was slightly apprehensive about it. As a cure, in the weeks leading up to the arrival of my new parts, I practised by swapping the CPU on what was then my son's rig, a 3.0 GHz P4 Prescott, with that on my then current rig, an 'ordinary' 3.4 GHz P4 (pre-Prescott; 'Northwood'? Canterwood? Something like that!) My 'old' rig was soon to become his anyway. I figured the 3.0 Prescott should be at least as good in real terms as the earlier type 3.4; IIRC it has double the L2 cache (1MB vs 512KB) for a start . [If that notion turns out to be incorrect, I can easily swap them back again. But I digress.]

Bottom line: Installing/changing a CPU is one of the easiest and most straightforward jobs you can do on a PC, PROVIDED you are careful and strictly follow a few basic points.

The instruction sheet (yes, it's more of a large map-style foldout sheet than a booklet) that came with my Intel Core 2 Duo E6600 gives easy-to-follow instructions with good clear illustrations.

About my only beef is not that they are written in fifteen different languages but that each separate step of the process is written fifteen times, once for each language (all sharing the same illustration), rather than having a separate section for each language, which would involve 15 renditions of each illustration and a booklet rather than a sheet! That minor criticism aside, top marks to Intel for providing instructions that are so good, in plain language. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

If having your eyeballs juggle through each step looking for the English bits (which are always at the top anyway) is too irritating, you can always consult the Motherboard manual. At least in the case of the ASUS P5B, and I suspect most others would be similar? The section on installing the CPU, heatsink and fan is also clear, easy to follow and well illustrated. And it's all in English. So take your pick.
In fact, I found the ASUS mobo manual very good too, and helpful for many of the assembly and set-up stages for my new beastie! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

To summarize the main points when installing the CPU:

(1) If the Motherboard is not yet installed in the case, it must be on a suitable, static-safe level surface. If installed in the case, the case should be on its side so the CPU can be lowered down into position.
(2) Take all the usual anti-static precautions mentioned before.
(3) Do not uncover the CPU socket on the Motherboard (by unlocking the lever, lifting the load plate and removing the socket's protective cover) until you are ready to install the CPU.
(4) Do not remove the protective cover from the CPU itself until ready to install it.
(5) Hold the CPU ONLY by the very edges, in the finger-thumb grip shown in the instructions. ON NO ACCOUNT WHATSOEVER should you touch the underside (working face/contacts) of the CPU.
(6) Ensure the correct orientation of the CPU to the socket. It is designed to fit one way only. (In the case of my Core2 Duo, there are notches to help you line it up. I think most if not all CPUs have notches, marks or a combination of both.)
(7) Lower it down gently, level, squarely and precisely, into position in the socket. {DO NOT USE ANY FORCE! The CPU should just drop neatly into position on the socket's pins. If it doesn't seem to want to, you've almost certainly done something wrong!}
(8) If you've done the above correctly, the CPU should now be lying perfectly level within the socket. Close the load plate by lowering the lever and lock the lever down, as shown in the instructions.
(9) Keep the protective covers for both the socket and the CPU in a safe place. You may need them at a later date.


Part 6B: Heatsink/Fan.

The heatsink/fan combination comes packaged with the CPU and its installation is likewise well covered, both by those instructions and the Motherboard manual. No tools are required. To summarize the main points:

(1) You may have chosen to install the CPU before mounting the Motherboard in the case (which is an option). However, the Intel instructions specifically state that you should fit the heatsink/fan WITH THE MOTHERBOARD INSTALLED IN THE CHASSIS.
(2) Referring to the Mobo manual if necessary, identify on the Motherboard the location of the connector for the fan's power cable.
(3) Remove the heatsink/fan assembly from the protective packaging only when you are ready to install it.
(4) The unit can be fitted in any one of four different rotational orientations (that is, the 'Intel' logo in the centre of the fan could finish right side up, upside down or sideways either way). Determine which of these orientations offers the best cable path to the Motherboard connector. The main objective is for the cable not to cross over or touch the heatsink/fan or foul any other components. [I made a small 'loop' in mine to 'shorten' it. The cable now does not 'wobble around' and it stays out of the way very nicely!]
(5) Before the fitting, inspect the face of the copper core in the centre of the heatsink's undersurface (which will be placed against the CPU). There should be a smear of grey heatsink thermal paste already on the core. (Mine was in three neat 'stripes'). If yours doesn't have any, place a small dot of paste, about the size of a screw head, either on the centre of the core or the centre of the flat face on the back of the CPU. Don't get the paste on your fingers but if you do, clean it off straight away. (You can buy a tube of thermal/heatsink paste from your computer dealer or electronics accessories shop.)
(6) The heatsink/fan is secured in place by four plastic plunger pins, which locate through four corresponding holes in the Motherboard. Line up the pins carefully, making sure the heads of the plungers, which have notches marked in them, are all facing the correct way. [The drawings in the instructions show this clearly.] Lower the assembly into position, pressing two DIAGONALLY OPPOSITE plungers down first (NOT two on the same side), to push the pin heads through the board. You should hear a distinct 'click' sound for each pin. Do the same with the remaining two diagonally opposite pins.
(7) Connect the fan's power cable to the mobo.

Job done!


NOTE: Due to an important matter that has been raised regarding installing the RAM, I have decided to cover this procedure in a separate post, with pics, rather than include it here as originally intended.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
10-23-2006, 10:39 AM
Originally posted by WOLFMondo:
I definately like that case and might buy it when I get my new kit mid next year.

For the SATA2 drivers, I'd just hit the website of the chipset manufacturer to get them. Like with Nvidia chipsets, don't even bother going to the motherboard manufacturer site, just get them from Nvidia instead.

Thanks WOLFMondo. ZappaTime seems to think I had it covered when I installed the RAID drivers, and I hope he is correct in that assumption. However, just to be safe I may do as you suggest anyway. Nothing to lose! If I do have to install the SATA drivers separately, I wonder how that will work in the Windows F6 prompt, when I have to use TWO floppies? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

panther3485
10-23-2006, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by ZappaTime:
If you've installed the raid drivers (at the early 'F6' screen in the windows install) I think you will have covered it correctly. My problem was I didn't do that as I thought I wouldn't be using raid, but in not doing so I believe I limited the drives performance (no NCQ support etc). Still never mind. Good luck, your rig should 'fly' http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I think there's a good chance you may be right about that, ZappaTime. I hope you are! Just in case, though, I might check out WOLFMondo's idea? Just wondering how that would work in Windows setup, though, with two separate lots of drivers (though I recall that subsequent to following the F6 prompt, after you've inserted the floppy with the RAID drivers and done the thing, Windows setup asks you if you have any more drivers to install?) http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif


Thanks again and best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

ploughman
10-23-2006, 10:44 AM
Once again thanks for the updates Panther, great to see the 'beast' lives. Looking forward to hearing how she drives.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


Dum spiro, spero

panther3485
10-23-2006, 10:59 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Once again thanks for the updates Panther, great to see the 'beast' lives. Looking forward to hearing how she drives.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

No wuckers, mate! After I've finished with the CPU/Fan/Heatsink and RAM, I'll continue with explaining how I did the rest of it and chuck in some more pics. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

crazyivan1970
10-23-2006, 11:25 AM
Entire world is watching panther http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://i5.tinypic.com/246pdl1.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magnum PC (http://www.magnum-pc.com)

Low_Flyer_MkVb
10-23-2006, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Entire world is watching panther http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Yeah! Don't get nervous - you probably got more viewers than CNN right now http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Got to say an informative and inspiring thread. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/LFMkVb/1822.jpg

crazyivan1970
10-23-2006, 11:38 AM
You know what amazes me the most... the way he puts it together... slowly, one thing at the time. Amazing. Troll2k was doing his new rig in the same manner... i could never do it lol. As many rigs as i built... i slap it togehter in like 2-3 hours and get to OS... then untill it`s all tuned up and overclocked i wont rest, even if it takes all night...Next thing i know... i`m at HL blasting away.... while computer got wires hanging all over the place lol. And it could be in that sorry state for couple of weeks, until mrs kicks my behind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://i5.tinypic.com/246pdl1.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magnum PC (http://www.magnum-pc.com)

ZappaTime
10-23-2006, 02:20 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You know what amazes me the most... the way he puts it together... slowly, one thing at the time. Amazing. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Well, he has got til Q4, 2007, according to Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

panther3485
10-24-2006, 09:46 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You know what amazes me the most... the way he puts it together... slowly, one thing at the time. Amazing. Troll2k was doing his new rig in the same manner... i could never do it lol. As many rigs as i built... i slap it togehter in like 2-3 hours and get to OS... then untill it`s all tuned up and overclocked i wont rest, even if it takes all night...Next thing i know... i`m at HL blasting away.... while computer got wires hanging all over the place lol. And it could be in that sorry state for couple of weeks, until mrs kicks my behind http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Must be all those years of model kit building that have made me so patient and methodical! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

panther3485
10-24-2006, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by ZappaTime:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
You know what amazes me the most... the way he puts it together... slowly, one thing at the time. Amazing. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Well, he has got til Q4, 2007, according to Oleg http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

....by which time, I may well have upgraded it a couple of times and it will certainly have a more 'kickarse' GPU! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Chivas
10-24-2006, 11:41 AM
Good job Panther. This thread should be compiled in order and placed as a sticky. I know it helped me. I've put together three or four systems knowing very little...just stuck the appropriate hardware in the most obvious slot. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Your pic of the memory placement confirmed my suspicion that I put mine in wrong regarding the dual memory A and B slots. I know they are color coded for dummies like me but the P5B manual is very vague. Although in the manual defence my eyes glace over shortly after I open it. Once I reset the memory overclocking became much easier. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

Chivas
10-24-2006, 11:55 AM
Panther...once you get FB loaded could you run the Black Death track with Perfect settings and post your fps. I know that FB is cpu hungry and it will be interesting to see how a very fast cpu and a relatively slower gpu handles the track.

~Salute~
Chivas<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.war-clouds.com/sigs/jg27chivas.jpg

panther3485
11-03-2006, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by Chivas:
Panther...once you get FB loaded could you run the Black Death track with Perfect settings and post your fps. I know that FB is cpu hungry and it will be interesting to see how a very fast cpu and a relatively slower gpu handles the track.

~Salute~
Chivas


Just had a go this evening. Driver is Nvidia 83.91, straight from the ASUS setup disc.

First, at 1280x960x32 in 'Perfect', with both AA and AF set to 'Application Controlled'.
avg - 45
max - 86
min - 30

Then, again at same resolution in 'Perfect', but with AA at 8xS and AF at 16x (the maximum obtainable for each).
avg - 17
max - 42
min - 11


Of course, this is with Windows just installed but not yet activated and FB+AEP+PF quickly whacked on and patched to v3.04m. No special preparations or time to fiddle about with settings yet. No doubt I can improve on this somewhat.

Nevertheless, these initial results would seem to bear out the idea that an upgrade to a more potent GPU, when I do it next year, will be good preparation for BoB.

I normally play at the first of the two settings given above, as I've found that bumping up the AA and AF doesn't really seem to significantly improve the visuals on my screen anyway. That given, and the fact that this was a very hasty preliminary test, I reckon I have plenty of leeway for the time being.


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

Beuf_Ninja
11-03-2006, 10:17 AM
Congratulations Panther, I've been checking regularly to see how your build was progressing. You have a lot of patience to have taken it step by step rather than just slapping it all together, I wish I had your discipline. Glad to see you can finally start enjoying the fruits of all your labour! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"Thou actest right Ahab; live in the game and die in it."

crazyivan1970
11-03-2006, 10:51 AM
Force AA and AF, dont use app control, then you`ll see the difference.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://i5.tinypic.com/246pdl1.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magnum PC (http://www.magnum-pc.com)

panther3485
11-03-2006, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Force AA and AF, dont use app control, then you`ll see the difference.


Thanks crazyivan, I'll keep that in mind. The point I tried to make is, that I've tried FB/AEP/PF at my favourite resolution (1280x960x32) in Perfect, with AA and AF completely off (both to 'Off' in the Nvidia options as well as trying 'Application Controlled') and all the way up to max for both. Truly, the image quality I get with the former is so good, clear and crisp, that bumping up AA and AF doesn't give any really noticeable benefit but it DOES hit frame rates - as my preliminary test shows. This was the same 'next-to-no-difference difference' as my previous rig (except that overall figures were lower, of course). http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EDIT: Will try again, to see if there is any significant difference on this system, between AA & AF being 'Off' or 'Application Controlled'. It didn't appear to make much difference on my previous rig. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

panther3485
11-03-2006, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by Beuf_Ninja:
Congratulations Panther, I've been checking regularly to see how your build was progressing. You have a lot of patience to have taken it step by step rather than just slapping it all together, I wish I had your discipline. Glad to see you can finally start enjoying the fruits of all your labour! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif


Thanks for that, Beuf_Ninja.

I've still got to add the closing stages to my little story (mainly, configuring the RAID array, adjusting the BIOS and installing the SATA RAID drivers during Windows Setup) but I've made the necessary notes.

And then, enjoy I most surely intend to do! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

crazyivan1970
11-03-2006, 11:49 AM
Visual differences, from my experiance, are based on resolution. For instance, with 1680x1050 res i run IL2FB 4aa, 8af forced, vSync on. Running higher AA/AF does not give me anything else visually. Same thing was with different type of monitor and resolution 1600x1200, 4aa/4af was the max i was using. Anything above that was just an FPS hit. And that applies not only to IL2....i get same results in COD2 and RO. Currently i run all games on 1680x1050, 4aa, 8af vSync on.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://i5.tinypic.com/246pdl1.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magnum PC (http://www.magnum-pc.com)

panther3485
11-03-2006, 11:56 AM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Visual differences, from my experiance, are based on resolution. For instance, with 1680x1050 res i run IL2FB 4aa, 8af forced, vSync on. Running higher AA/AF does not give me anything else visually. Same thing was with different type of monitor and resolution 1600x1200, 4aa/4af was the max i was using. Anything above that was just an FPS hit. And that applies not only to IL2....i get same results in COD2 and RO. Currently i run all games on 1680x1050, 4aa, 8af vSync on.

OK - thanks again; that's worth considering.

I have a slightly dated but still highly outstanding quality 21" CRT Mitsubishi monitor. Frankly, the image quality even at 1280x960 is so darned good that I haven't found ANY kind of AA & AF settings that make much difference at all. I've also tried at 1600x1200 and the outcome is an image of slightly better quality at slightly lower frames! For Oleg's stuff I always go back to 1280x960. I play some strategy games and shooters at 1600x1200, however.

No harm in playing around some more, though! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

crazyivan1970
11-03-2006, 12:00 PM
Native res for 21" is really 1600x1200... Native res is something i go by all the time. Everything else gets adjusted around it, but res stays.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

V!
Regards,

http://blitzpigs.com/forum/images/smiles/smokin.gif

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/band.gif

VFC*Crazyivan aka VFC*HOST

http://i5.tinypic.com/246pdl1.jpg

Kozhedub: In combat potential, the Yak-3, La-7 and La-9 fighters were indisputably superior to the Bf-109s and Fw-190s. But, as they say, no matter how good the violin may be, much depends on the violinist. I always felt respect for an enemy pilot whose plane I failed to down.

Magnum PC (http://www.magnum-pc.com)

panther3485
11-03-2006, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by crazyivan1970:
Native res for 21" is really 1600x1200... Native res is something i go by all the time. Everything else gets adjusted around it, but res stays.

That may be so, but I always work my desktop at 1280x960. At 1600x1200, everything is starting to get too small to see and I do plenty of other things besides gaming. With my desktop at this setting, that's the 'anchor point' for me and the res that therefore works best in many games, including FB/AEP/PF, with the entire visible area of the screen being used. 1600x1200 looks slightly better as I said before, but leaves a black margin of about 8mm around the outside of the image. And it's not that much better anyway.

On my wife's 19" CRT, we use 1152x864. On my son's new 19" Samsung TFT, he uses 1280x1024. At work, I've got a 17" CRT which is comfortable for me at 1024x768 but most of my co-workers have the same size monitor set at 800x600 - they reckon things are too small at 1024x768 so they would struggle with my home desktop at 1280x960! (The icons and print look the same size as 1024x768 at work.)


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

DrHerb
11-03-2006, 06:01 PM
Wait 6 months or maybe a tad longer, Intel will be coming out with quad core cpu's rumer has it<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

"Wow, it's like I died and went to heaven, then God realized it wasn't my time yet, so He sent me back to a brewery."

"I play while you are at work so I nail your wife and then kick the dog. They both love it." Breeze147


Known as VMF-214_Prop in H/l

panther3485
11-03-2006, 11:49 PM
Episode 11 - Power to Case Fans, Tidying Up Cables and Case Castors.


Part 11B: Case Castors.

I've decided to fit the optional castors supplied with the case. This is not because I need 'mobility' but rather to increase the clearance underneath, thus enhancing the inflow of air through the large floor grille.

This pic shows the four castors fitted, after removing the conventional 'feet'.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/Castorsfitted.jpg



Here the case is standing, showing the generous clearance for airflow to the underneath. The 'feet' provided only about 7mm of clearance but I now have around 45mm.

http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e333/panther3485/pc%20building/Clearancewithcastors.jpg
These castors will be locked when the case is placed in position on my desk. [Don't want the bloody thing rolling off!]


That's all the 'building' pretty much completed but there is still further work to be done before the System can be used, so......


More to follow! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


panther3485 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Fork-N-spoon
11-04-2006, 12:51 AM
Panther,

At first I didn?t want to say anything about the placement of your power supply. While I feel that its placement in the bottom of the case is ideal, I didn?t realize that the mesh screen actually permitted fresh air to be drawn into the case. While it could be a bit wider, it looks like it will be just fine and not starve the power supply of cool fresh air from outside the case. It wasn?t until you posted the photograph of the underside that I was able to see what was under the mesh screen.

I've nearly as many 120mm fans for intake as your system. None of them spin at more than 800 - 1,000 rpm yet my case fills up with dust rather quickly. If I let it go more than a month, it begins to clog the fins of my heat sinks. It's not a problem, I've an air compressor in the garage. I don?t live in a dusty dirty house with a wife, two kids, a cat and a dog. I?d keep an eye on the dust build up so you can get some cleaning schedule set up to combat the dust build up.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Blondes are for nancy boys. Stop the cruelty adopt a brunette today

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v358/bolillo_quemado/brunette.jpg

ploughman
11-04-2006, 04:18 AM
Looking wheely good there mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">


Dum spiro, spero

Low_Flyer_MkVb
11-04-2006, 04:34 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n47/LFMkVb/1822.jpg

panther3485
11-04-2006, 05:35 AM
Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
Panther,

"At first I didn?t want to say anything about the placement of your power supply. While I feel that its placement in the bottom of the case is ideal, I didn?t realize that the mesh screen actually permitted fresh air to be drawn into the case. While it could be a bit wider, it looks like it will be just fine and not starve the power supply of cool fresh air from outside the case. It wasn?t until you posted the photograph of the underside that I was able to see what was under the mesh screen."

Yep, you got it! I was a little concerned to start with, that the mesh on the floor intake might obstruct airflow a bit too much but initial indications seem to be reassuring. When I was running the track tests to determine FPS, I repeated them five or six times each. I thought this wasn't a bad workout for my system. At the end of the session (about 30 mins, perhaps), I felt all areas of the case with my hands to see how hot it might have become. I paid particular attention to the area around the PSU, as this has always been very warm - even hot - on previous PC's I've used. Everything felt as cool as a cucumber! Not a 'scientific' test by any means, but certainly an encouraging indicator.



Originally posted by Fork-N-spoon:
"I've nearly as many 120mm fans for intake as your system. None of them spin at more than 800 - 1,000 rpm yet my case fills up with dust rather quickly. If I let it go more than a month, it begins to clog the fins of my heat sinks. It's not a problem, I've an air compressor in the garage. I don?t live in a dusty dirty house with a wife, two kids, a cat and a dog. I?d keep an eye on the dust build up so you can get some cleaning schedule set up to combat the dust build up."

I live in a very dusty environment - land works less than a mile away, strong winds, sandy soil, household dust, kids, pets, the 'whole box and dice'. I have a regular habit of cleaning all the PCs in the house, otherwise they soon clog up and cooling is the first thing to suffer. I should do it once every month or two but occasionally I do forget. I'll watch this new rig to see how quickly the dust builds up.

Thanks again for the input, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

panther3485
11-04-2006, 05:38 AM
Originally posted by Ploughman:
Looking wheely good there mate. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Yes, I'm trolley pleased with it! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

Boo-Boom!

panther3485
11-04-2006, 08:17 PM
Episode 12 - BIOS, RAID and Windows.


In this episode, we'll look at:

(A) Adjusting the BIOS settings for correct system operation

(B) Configuring a pair of HDD's for RAID 0 using the Intel Matrix Storage Manager configuration utility

(C) Installing the SATA RAID drivers during Windows Setup


Before we attempt any of this, we want to verify to ourselves that the system has in fact been assembled correctly, that all key components are in good operating condition and that our newly created beastie is really going to boot up!

So, having finalized the assembly and tidied things up, we do the following:
(1) Close up the case.
(2) Ensuring that all switches are in the 'off' position, connect up the power (if it's not connected already), preferably through a suitable surge protector.
(3) Connect the monitor, keyboard and mouse.
(4) Switch on the power at the source.
(5) Switch on the monitor.
(6) Switch on the power at the PSU.

And now comes the moment of truth.

(7) Press the Startup button!

If all is as it should be, you will be rewarded with the system 'coming to life', the LED's for the drives and front panel flashing on and two or three things making a brief appearance on the screen before a reboot prompt comes up.

Shortly after pressing the Startup button, the system should have begun to run POST (Power On Self Tests), where it checks all the essential hardware. There is usually a single short, soft 'beep' from the system speaker but if something of importance is wrong, you may hear an additional 'beep', or multiple 'beeps' and an error notice may also appear briefly on the screen. If that happens, consult your Motherboard manual regarding the meaning of the warning and take the appropriate action.

Of course, if something much more serious is wrong the system may not be able to boot up at all. If so, the best approach in my experience is to go back and systematically check everything. You could have overlooked something simple. [However, if after your best efforts you are unable to trace the fault or error, there's no shame in seeking expert advice.]

Assuming that all is well, as the system is booting up you should see at least a couple of brief screen appearances. In my case it's

(1) Motherboard logo, with prompts to "Press DEL to run setup" and/or "Press TAB to display BIOS POST message"
(Don't do anything - just let it go to the next screen)

Followed by

(2) Some basic drive information, with "Press any key to continue...." at the bottom.
(Again, do nothing at this stage)


Also, the first time I pressed the Startup button, the following info appeared on the screen:

"Press ALT+F2 to boot from System Recovery
PC2-6400 Dual Channel Interleaved
Initializing USB Controllers... Done.
2048MB OK
USB Device(s) : 1 Mouse
Auto-Detecting SATA1... IDE Hard Disk
Auto-Detecting SATA2... IDE Hard Disk
SATA 1 : WDC WD1600YS-01SHB0 20.06C03
Ultra DMA Mode-5, S.M.A.R.T. Capable and Status OK
SATA 2 : WDC WD1600YS-01SHB0 20.06C03
Ultra DMA Mode-5, S.M.A.R.T. Capable and Status OK
Auto-Detecting USB Mass Storage Devices ...
00 USB mass storage devices found and configured
CMOS Settings Wrong
CMOS Date/Time Not Set
Overclocking failed! Please enter Setup to re-configure your system.
Press F1 to Run Setup
Press F2 to load default values and continue."


There's no need to be concerned about the CMOS/BIOS items mentioned above, that are not correctly set (remember we 'zeroed' the CMOS earlier), as we are about to adjust these shortly. Just press F2 to continue.


After all of this has occurred, you should
be looking at a 'black' screen displaying the following notice:

"Reboot and Select proper Boot device
or Insert Boot Media in selected Boot device and press a Key_"


So, if you've done and followed all this to here you've probably got it pretty much right. Congratulations!

Next, we'll start the boot-up process again but this time, since the system appears as if it's going to be OK, we are ready to actually DO something, starting with the BIOS settings.

So here we go! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif


Part 12A - Adjusting BIOS settings.

If you haven't shut the system down yet, do so now by pressing the Startup button and holding it for a few moments. Wait a few moments and press the button again to boot up. Either that or press the Reboot button. If you have already shut it down, press the Startup button to begin.

As soon as the Motherboard Logo screen appears
with its "Press DEL to run Setup" prompt, Press Delete and hold it down for a few moments (say, 5 seconds or so). This should get you into the BIOS SETUP UTILITY - a blue screen with grey and blue fields - at the BIOS opening menu.

If you've not been into a BIOS screen before, the instructions on navigation and key use are normally in a column to the right of the screen with a list of items to be set/adjusted under each tab or heading to the left. If necessary, take a little time to familiarize yourself with the keys required to navigate and use the BIOS screens.

From left to right, the tabs in the opening menu are 'Main', 'Advanced', 'Power', 'Boot', 'Tools' and 'Exit'. You should already be under the 'Main' tab and it is here that you adjust the system's Date and Time. We 'zeroed' the CMOS clock a little while back, so the system thinks it's sometime in 2002! Set the Date and Time, using the Tab, Up/Down arrow and +/- keys. [The default arrangement is for the date to be set by Month/Day/Year, not Day/Month/Year - take note all you British and Commonwealth types who are used to it being done the latter way!] The item you want to adjust should be highlighted in white font.

When you've done that, arrow further down the same page (still under the 'Main' tab) until the line that says 'IDE Configuration' is highlighted.



When 'IDE Configuration' is highlighted, press [B] Enter to open up the IDE Configuration sub-menu. On the first line, the SATA Configuration should be set as 'Enhanced' by default. Arrow down one line to highlight 'Configure SATA as' and press Enter again. The default setting is [IDE] but from the options given, you must select [RAID] and press Enter again.

Arrow down to the next item on the list, 'OnBoard Serial-ATA BOOTROM' (which by default is set at [Disabled]) and in a similar way, set this to [Enabled] .


These BIOS setting changes are the essential ones I needed to continue with the configuration of my RAID array and get my system going properly. Further changes can be made later. Your particular hardware and system options may differ from mine (for instance, you may not be using RAID). Another common option is to install a separate Sound Card, instead of relying on the Mobo's Onboard Sound Controller. If you have installed a Sound Card, you will need to disable the Onboard Sound in the BIOS, which you should do at this stage. (For the ASUS P5B Deluxe, this is under the Advanced tab. Go to Onboard Devices Configuration and press Enter . 'HD Audio Controller' is the first item in the sub menu and by default it is [Enabled]. Change it to [Disabled] .) If you don't have a P5B, consult your Motherboard manual for further details.

You should now exit the BIOS, saving as you go. Pressing the F10 key will point you there.

After exiting, you should end up back at the black screen with the 'Reboot...' prompt.

Insert your Windows XP CD. For now, press and hold the Startup button to shut down. We're going to prepare for the next steps, which are configuring RAID 0 in the Intel configuration utility, quickly followed by installing the SATA RAID drivers in Windows Setup.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif



panther3485

panther3485
11-05-2006, 06:03 AM
Episode 12 - BIOS, RAID and Windows.


Preparation for Parts 12B (Configuring RAID 0 using the Intel configuration utility) and 12C (Installing SATA RAID drivers during Windows Setup)

Before proceeding further, we need to create a SATA RAID Driver Floppy Disc from the Motherboard Support CD.

For my set-up, it goes like this:

Using another PC, insert the CD and a fresh, clean formatted Floppy Disc. When the Mobo CD auto-runs to opening menu, select the Make Disk tab. From the items listed, select Make Intel ICH8 32 bit RAID/AHCI Driver Disk . Follow the prompts to completion and when finished, label the floppy clearly for future use.

{If you do not have access to another PC, you can create the RAID driver floppy from the same CD using the rig you've just built. Insert the Mobo CD and re-boot. You should see a screen saying, "Welcome to the ASUS Motherboard Make Disk for DOS Menu". Follow the prompts to completion.}

Have this floppy handy, ready for use.



Part 12B - Configuring RAID 0 using the Intel configuration utility

Boot up the system. Immediately after the Motherboard Logo screen, a new screen with basic HDD info should appear. At the bottom of it there will be a prompt that says, "Press Ctrl+I to enter Configuration Utility" . The screen only appears for a couple of seconds, so you have to press Ctrl+I VERY QUICKLY! (If you miss it for whatever reason, don't worry. Just let Windows Setup run to its first prompt, exit Setup and re-boot to try again.)

On pressing Ctrl+I, the 'Intel Matrix Storage Manager' configuration utility will appear, inviting you to create your RAID volume (option 1 in the menu):

MAIN MENU

1. Create RAID Volume
2. Delete RAID Volume
3. Reset Disks to Non-RAID
4. Exit

DISK/VOLUME INFORMATION

RAID Volumes:
None defined.

Physical Disks:

Port Drive Model Serial# Size Type/Status(Vol ID)
0 WDC WD1600YS-01S WD-WCAP01285144 153.4GB Non-RAID Disk
1 WDC WD1600YS-01S WD-WCAP01497457 153.4GB Non-RAID Disk


Make sure that 'Create RAID Volume' (option 1) is highlighted in the main menu and then press Enter .

A new menu appears offering options for the creation of your array:

CREATE VOLUME MENU

Name: Volume0
RAID Level: RAID0(Stripe)
Disks: Select Disks
Strip Size: 128KB
Capacity: 306.8GB

Create Volume

HELP

Enter a string between 1 and 16 characters in length that can be used to uniquely identify the RAID volume. This name is case sensitive and can not contain special characters.


Note: The uppermost item in the menu, ?Name: Volume0? should be highlighted. Notes shown under ?HELP? apply to the highlighted item, so they change as you move down the menu. Unless you wish to alter the name of the volume, just press Enter to confirm, which will move you to the next item down the list.

The highlight will have moved to the second item, ?RAID Level: RAID0(Stripe)?. Unless you want to change the array (say, to RAID 1), leave this at default and press Enter again.

At this stage, I did not have additional drives for a more complex RAID array, so the the third item, 'Select Disks', is greyed out and the cursor skips it.

I left the fourth item, 'Strip Size: 128KB', at default too, pressing Enter afterwards.

I also left the fifth item, 'Capacity: 306.8GB', at default since I do not wish to sub-divide (partition) the drive. Pressing 'Enter' again moves the highlight to ?Create Volume'. Yet again, press Enter .

When asked, ?Are you sure you want to create this volume?? Press Y for yes. You should be back at the Configuration Utility introductory screen, with a RAID volume now in place as shown below:

MAIN MENU

1. Create RAID Volume
2. Delete RAID Volume
3. Reset Disks to Non-RAID
4. Exit


DISK/VOLUME INFORMATION

RAID Volumes:

ID Name Level Strip Size Status Bootable
0 Volume0 RAID0(Stripe) 128KB 306.8GB Normal Yes
Physical Disks:
Port Drive Model Serial# Size Type/Status(Vol ID)
0 WDC WD1600YS-01S WD-WCAP01285144 153.4GB Member Disk (0)
1 WDC WD1600YS-01S WD-WCAP01497457 153.4GB Member Disk (0)


Press Esc to exit and when asked, ?Are you sure?.?? press Y . You must be ready to carry out the next action VERY PROMPTLY :


Part 12C - Installing SATA RAID drivers during Windows Setup

When you see, ?Press F6 if you need to install a third party SCSI or RAID driver?? at the bottom of a blue screen, immediately press F Lock (if necessary), quickly followed by F6 .

Tip: You will have perhaps 1 ? 1.5 seconds to perform this action. If you miss it, don?t worry. Just wait for boot-up to complete (or go as far as it wants to), exit/shut down and start up again.

After a minute or so, you should see:

?Setup could not determine the type of one or more mass storage devices installed in your system, or you have chosen to manually specify an adapter. Currently, Setup will load support for the following mass storage devices(s):

<none>

*To specify additional SCSI adapters, CD-ROM drives, or special disk controllers for use with Windows, including those for which you have a device support disk from a mass storage device manufacturer, press S.
*If you do not have any device support disks from a mass storage device manufacturer, or do not want to specify additional mass storage devices for use with Windows, press ENTER.?


Press S .

Setup will say:

?Please insert the disk labelled Manufacturer-supplied hardware support disk into Drive A:
*Press ENTER when ready?


Insert the RAID Driver floppy disc and then press Enter.

Next you should see:

?You have chosen to configure a SCSI Adapter for use with Windows using a device support disk provided by an adapter manufacturer.
Select the SCSI Adapter you want from the following list, or press ESC to return to the previous screen.

Intel(R) ICH8R/DO/DH SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH8R)
Intel(R) ICH8R/DO/DH SATA AHCI Controller (Desktop ICH8R)
Intel(R) 631xESB/632xESB SATA RAID Controller (Server/Workstation ESB2)
Intel(R) 631xESB/632xESB SATA AHCI Controller (Server/Workstation ESB2)

Press Enter to select


Ensure that the first item on the list is highlighted, then press Enter .


On the next screen, you will see:

?Setup will load support for the following mass storage device(s):

Intel(R) ICH8R/DO/DH SATA RAID Controller (Desktop ICH8R)

*To specify additional SCSI adapters, CD-ROM drives, or special disk controllers for use with Windows, including those for which you have a device support disk from a mass storage device manufacturer, press S.
*If you do not have any device support disks from a mass storage device manufacturer, or do not want to specify additional mass storage devices for use with Windows, press ENTER.?


Press Enter .

Wait for Setup to go through a brief hardware and system checking process and then you should get a 'welcome'. The options are:

? To set up Windows XP now, press ENTER
? To repair a Windows XP installation using recovery console, press R
? To quit setup without installing Windows XP, press F3

Press Enter . (Sick of the 'Enter' key yet?)

You should now be able to continue with Windows Setup as normal. Watch the screen shortly after formatting is completed and be sure to remove the RAID floppy when prompted.


I reckon that just about wraps up this little saga, unless I've overlooked something of importance?

Questions? http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif



panther3485

willyvic
11-05-2006, 09:46 PM
Still hangin in here Panther. Great work on the rig and the step by step. Thank you for your time and effort. It's been a pleasure to follow you on your "journey".

Here's to years of enjoyment with your new machine.

WV<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.geocities.com/mompeepers/willyvic/mig3u.jpg
Y'all have a very raaaidy day!

panther3485
11-05-2006, 11:48 PM
Originally posted by willyvic:
Still hangin in here Panther. Great work on the rig and the step by step. Thank you for your time and effort. It's been a pleasure to follow you on your "journey".

Here's to years of enjoyment with your new machine.

WV

Thanks, WV - nice to be appreciated.

At some point in the near future, I'd like to edit/rearrange my little story as a fresh thread, with everything in the proper sequence. But for now, I'm gonna take a little time out to enjoy the new beastie! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif


Best regards, http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
panther3485

jamesdietz
01-21-2007, 10:27 AM
I desparately need to replace aging rig right now...what to do what to do??

fuzzychickens
01-21-2007, 03:21 PM
If you are going to get BOB, I'd wait until it's out. A big question is if BOB will take advantage of multi-core cpus...seeing as intel and amd are no longer ramping up clock speed as in the past.....now it seems it "core wars". Meaningless to gamers until games use multi-cores.