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zugfuhrer
12-31-2006, 02:03 AM
I have read that Soviet Union denied the existence of the secret part of the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact. The secret part declared that Finland, Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania where "spheres of influence" of the Soviet Union.

In the same text I could read that the Soviet Unions offical point of view was, that the secret part of the threaty was false and a product of the western propaganda.

It was not until August 1989 when Pravda published the secret part. In December the same year it was declared as not legal and not valid by The peoples Congress of Soviet Union.

This boosted the declaration of independence of this Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania.

http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

Can anybody give me more info about this?

BfHeFwMe
12-31-2006, 03:16 AM
http://www.lituanus.org/1989/89_1_03.htm

Kind of hard to deny do***ents with their own signatures on em. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

Valencia, returning in his shot-up but airworthy Hellcat after his harrowing February 1944 mission over Truk, summed up the thoughts of many pilots about Hellcats: ?If they could cook, I?d marry one.?

F19_Orheim
12-31-2006, 06:08 AM
we cant write do***ents anymore??

These filters are a bit too much... can we **** them?<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/f19orheim_banner3.jpg (http://www.f19vs.se)
http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/03.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/zero_beached_big.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/04.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/p47_stranded.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/05.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/attack_on_akagi_final.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/06.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/stuka_norweig_1600x1200.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/07.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/attack_on_akagi_2.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/08.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/attack_on_akagi_3.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/09.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/attack_on_akagi_4.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/10.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/attack_on_akagi_5.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/11.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/ssp2_orheim.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/12.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/SSP_orheim_safonov.JPG)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/13.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/orheim_dowdings_heros_new.jpg)
http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/14.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/orheim_enemies_of_old.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/15.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/orheim_LOS.jpg)http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/16.jpg (http://f19vs.se/pics/orheim/F19_Orheim_The_Forgotten_Few.jpg)
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leitmotiv
12-31-2006, 08:32 AM
All you need to know about the pact is that it was an act of stupifying cynicism on the part of both parties with the sole intention of buying time to postpone the inevitable collision between the Nazis and Soviets. The sole difference between the two was that Hitler intended to enslave or liquidate every slav, and Stalin would have settled for enslavement of every Western European and the annihilation of Western civilization. Good thing for all concerned the war destroyed Nazism and left the Stalinist totalitarian Soviet state too weakened to ever catch up with the West. Sometimes only evil can destroy evil.

StG2_Schlachter
12-31-2006, 08:54 AM
WTH is Nazism ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.stg2immelmann.de/pics/stg2.jpg

Abbuzze
12-31-2006, 09:11 AM
Do***ents.

EDIT: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif UNBELIEVABLE<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

I./JG53 PikAs Abbuzze
http://www.jg53-pikas.de/

http://mitglied.lycos.de/p1234/bilder/Ani_pikasbanner_langsam%20neu.gif

John_Wayne_
12-31-2006, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by StG2_Schlachter:
WTH is Nazism ? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Google is your friend. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b71/Big_Duke/Duke.jpg

leitmotiv
12-31-2006, 10:38 AM
Education has completely failed.

rcocean
12-31-2006, 03:48 PM
Interesting that Lithuania was originally part of the German Sphere and the Russo-German in boundry in Poland was to based on the Vistuala. I don't have a map in front of me, but it appears that the original agreement was trying to restore the old 1914 boundries in Poland.

Had the original boundries held, I wonder the effect would have been on Barbarossa. Had the German started at border of Lithuania and Latvia, I don't see how they could have been kept from taking Lenningrad in 1941.

In any case, you have to give Stalin credit. The pact gave him 2 years to prepare for war and 200 mile or so buffer zone. The pact probably kept the USSR from losing the war.

zugfuhrer
01-01-2007, 04:20 AM
The changing of spheres of interest is interesting. I dont know why this change was done.

Have anyone out there in the world any info about if, and why the secret part of the pact was denied by USSR for so many years.

After all there where referendums if the Baltic states should join the Soviet Union.
International observers where denied to control the grade of democraty of this referendums.

gdfo
01-01-2007, 04:26 AM
do***ents or dokyouments?

gdfo
01-01-2007, 04:26 AM
does it allow 4Q?

Hoatee
01-01-2007, 04:33 AM
Originally posted by Abbuzze:
Do***ents.

EDIT: http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif UNBELIEVABLE

Certainly no uni***.

B0lloX
01-01-2007, 05:25 AM
Originally posted by gdfo:
do***ents or dokyouments?

That's excellent: we can all spell like yokels now.

B0llox<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

MALIM PRAEDARI

Ugly_Kid
01-01-2007, 05:26 AM
Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Have anyone out there in the world any info about if, and why the secret part of the pact was denied by USSR for so many years.


USSR/Russia likes/liked to portray itself solemnly as a victim to an aggression in WW II whereas, for example, the Soviet attack ('39) against Finland that started the Winter War was framed to be a finnish aggression. It was 'till late 80s or so and in some places it is still thaught at russian schools that Finland attacked USSR and begun the conflict with the artillery concentration in Mainila. Essentially, denial of the Ribbentrop pact is part of this scheme.<div class="ev_tpc_signature">

http://www.f19vs.se/fokker_now.jpg

rcocean
01-02-2007, 09:43 AM
Originally posted by Ugly_Kid:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by zugfuhrer:
Have anyone out there in the world any info about if, and why the secret part of the pact was denied by USSR for so many years.


USSR/Russia likes/liked to portray itself solemnly as a victim to an aggression in WW II whereas, for example, the Soviet attack ('39) against Finland that started the Winter War was framed to be a finnish aggression. It was 'till late 80s or so and in some places it is still thaught at russian schools that Finland attacked USSR and begun the conflict with the artillery concentration in Mainila. Essentially, denial of the Ribbentrop pact is part of this scheme. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. IIRC, the USSR and its stooges had to portray the takeover of the Baltic states as a defensive move to prevent the facists from invading them. Thats also why they had fake elections and maintain the pretense that the Baltics states had 'invited' them in.

The same in Poland. The USSR attack was portrayed as a rescue mission to reunite Ukrainians and keep the Polish working class from being oppressed by the Facists.

The occupation of the Baltics after WW II could only justified by maintaining the pretense that the Baltics had *WANTED* to join the USSR and the USSR and reluctantly come to their rescue. The secret protocols show, of course, that this is all a lie. Hence, the deniel.