PDA

View Full Version : Sturmovik best practices?



msalama
11-11-2005, 11:41 AM
OK then -

After going back & forth between planes I've for some strange reason seriously started my online career in the Black Death, Flying Coffin, Flying Tank, The Stormbird, i.e. the venerable Ilyuschin IL-2! And being the stubborn ar$e-stetson* that I am, I'm gonna stick to it Za Rodinu, or until uncle Joe sends me to Gulag!

But alas, I might be lacking some best practices here, apart from the following which all _seem_ to work:

# Approach the target either 1) in the weeds or 2) in the clouds to avoid detection.

# DO NOT hit AAA batteries straight on, because them geezers will put a cap in yo a$$ if you do!

# Use horizontal tactics if you get attacked by enemy fighters.

# Do dive with the bugger, but pay close attention to your altitude and airspeed.

And you? Care to share? I'm certain there're plenty of ground-pounder aces around, so let's hear from ya if you don't mind...

Thanks in advance for any statements, facts, opinions, flames, conspiracy theories etc.!

* I.e. an asshat.

Ace_Hyflyer
11-11-2005, 12:26 PM
Hey msalama,

I recently finished the IL-2 Bomber campaign in the original IL-2 Sturmovik. While I didn't survive it without dying http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif I did pick up a few tips. When you are attacking tanks, do not ever let your speed drop below 320 kph. Alway extend a long distance before you turn around, cause if you make a turn near a tank, that massive spread-eagle target is hard to miss (I speak from experience) :P

Hope this helps,
Chris

p1ngu666
11-11-2005, 12:59 PM
attack the stuff that shoots at u first, and be aggressive with it.

oh and shoot teh german fighters too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 03:01 PM
attack the stuff that shoots at u first, and be aggressive with it.

Yep. My impression too. 1st you put out the AA, and then you shoot everything else to pieces if at all possible http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif


oh and shoot teh german fighters too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

I did and I do!!! Except they were Finns this time, but still... Got 2 airkills today - a Biffer & a Brewster, to be specific http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

neural_dream
11-11-2005, 03:10 PM
your rear gunner cannot hit low and your most vulnerable parts are also low. Thus fly very very low.

msalama
11-11-2005, 03:14 PM
Always extend a long distance before you turn around, cause if you make a turn near a tank, that massive spread-eagle target is hard to miss.

Extend straight as an arrow?

Hmm... with tanks this might be true, but with AA it's a bit different, because if you either fly straight _to_ them or directly _from_ them, well, they'll pwn yer a$$! So curves is the thing there...

msalama
11-11-2005, 03:23 PM
Your rear gunner cannot hit low and your most vulnerable parts are also low. Thus fly very very low.

Yes, as a rule-of-thumb most definitely. But there's more IMHO. Take the weather and the scenery, for example - what if I'm taking off from an island, and the cloud base is at 500m? What then?

Situation counts, I've found out meself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

neural_dream
11-11-2005, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by msalama:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Your rear gunner cannot hit low and your most vulnerable parts are also low. Thus fly very very low.

Yes, as a rule-of-thumb most definitely. But there's more IMHO. Take the weather and the scenery, for example - what if I'm taking off from an island, and the cloud base is at 500m? What then?

Situation counts, I've found out meself http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I meant low like 10m over the ground (or the sea or the mountain below).
This way you use the cover of elevations against AAAs and you remove the advantage of BnZ from enemy fighters. I don't agree that the gunner is useless. The Sturmoviks are sturdy. Give your gunner full view of the enemy for the whole time and he'll down him. I take it for granted that you don't fly alone, but there are at least 2-3 other sturmoviks with you doing the same http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

vanjast
11-11-2005, 03:30 PM
You must think now...
a) with AAA you must weave until the last moment then shoot them
b) with fighters you must fly the IL2 like a fighter - your gunner is usually useless. Get that fighter in your sights and blast him.

c) ordinance should be something used for carpet/area bombing. You want to blow up the world below you

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 03:44 PM
I meant low like 10m over the ground (or the sea or the mountain below).
This way you use the cover of elevations against AAAs and you remove the advantage of BnZ from enemy fighters. I don't agree that the gunner is useless. The Sturmoviks are sturdy. Give your gunner full view of the enemy for the whole time and he'll down him.

Rgr that, gotcha now. Sorry 'bout the misunderstanding.

And NO!!!! the gunner is not fXXXing worthless at ALL! Why, the bugger was who earned me my second online airkill today - I, being the pilot, did my best in evading the Brewster (and succeeded), and A.I. Vanovich back there killed the bastage http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif The man really earned his after-landing ice-cool shot of virtual Stoli, I can tellya!

So yep - they're more than adequate if you give them room to operate in http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

msalama
11-11-2005, 03:46 PM
your gunner is usually useless.

I've to disagree. See above. But as for using the Sturmo as a fighter - well yes, if you've got the kinetic energy for that...

BRASSTURTLE
11-11-2005, 03:51 PM
I flew & completed my 2nd & 3rd missions of the stock Kursk campaign flying the IL2-m3 last night.
i tend to fly no higher than 30-50m in the target area. i sometimes have to aim up to hit ground targets.
Stay as low as possible & try not to fixate on the target. Attack tanks from the rear if possible. If you can see the tops of trees, you are too high!! Very low altitude makes it hard for the (AI)lufties get a good run at you. The early, single seaters turn fairly well & can produce a nasty suprise for the unwary fighter pilot.

If you are in command, send the wingmen after the flak first. (I learned that on this forum last year http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif )
Attack flak, then armor, then whatever is left, the run like hell for home.


After attacking, fly like you have a pissed off hornet in the cockpit, but still stay low.
The Strumo doesn't stall all that easily, and recovers well,IMHO, so don't be afraid to manuver like an idiot to avoid flak.
As noted above, use the terrain for cover. Nothing bugs a flak gunner like you going BELOW his line of sight.

I have noticed that the -m3 seem to suffer from rudder/elevator damage frequently, but i have twice been able to limp back 80+ km to base without either. Just don't try to land.

Most importantly, take my advice with a HUGE grain of salt. I destroyed 53 planes to complete just 17 missions in the original IL2. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif
and there are many, many, more knowledgable mud movers than i here.

Tully__
11-11-2005, 05:47 PM
Get your ordnance on the target fast in the first/second passes then go home. Only consider using up all your cannon ammo if you're SURE there are no enemy aircraft or AAA units left to bother you.

Hiding in the clouds is fine in DF servers, but don't think it will help you against AA or AI aircraft. In coops & single player it's often better to fly at lawn mowing height as ND suggests. I prefer to enter the target area at 1500-2000m and start a gentle dive about 8km out. Gives me a heap of extra speed over the target and makes the AA and air defence work harder http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

civildog
11-11-2005, 08:02 PM
I fly with live vik drivers on Coops so my advice is slanted to that type of thing.

1) Split the force into two groups: one for flakbait and spotting, the other for killing the target. We call the flakbait planes the weasels and the target killers the bears.

2) Weasels ave a lighter fuel load and carry only HE, or ROFS-132 rockets. The vik has enough heavy cannon rounds to dice up anything else, but you need stand-off weapons to properly kill flak.

The Bears carry all the heavy ordnance and come follow the weasel flight approx one minute behind to give the weasel flight time to spot flak, suppress flak, and spot the targets if needed. The weasel flight can warn off the bears if needed.

3)The flight to the target zone is made at no higher than 1500m, less if there is lowlight/clouds cover. Unless enemy aircraft are spotted prior to the final approach to the target area the viks dive to 50m or less for ingress to the target when one-two minutes out / earlier if aircraft are spotted. Staying low protects your most vulenrable point (the oil cooler) and takes the advantage away from BnZ types. It also makes it easier for you fighter escorts to protect you.

4) The weasels come in at full throttle and split up to keep the flak for concentrating on one plane, both pilots watch the flak sources and while one is flying, the other runs for the flak shooting at the runner. The rockets are fired off for suppression and stand-off effect, and the guns are kept for close in work. If the flak is destroyed and there are still bear targets then the weasels can go help out, otherwise their job is to draw the flak away from the bears. Obviously this can be hard on weasel drivers.

5)Both groups form up and egress from the target zone once the mission is over so they can mutually support eachother on the way home.

No matter what you do it's pretty darn hard to survive for many missions in an IL2. That's how it was in real life, too, so it's pretty realistic. The things you have going for you are the armor, lots of cannon ammo, and a tail gunner. The armor means you can stay on a target longer than you think as long as it's not firing more than 20mm ammo. The cannon ammo menas you can afford to put down a lot of suppression fire and kill almost anything you hit. The rear gunner means you won't get surprised by a bounce because you'll hear the gunner open up - BUT it doesn't mean you'll survive unless you jump in the back seat right away.

Use you MG ammo to line up a shot to stretch out the cannon ammo even more: if you are scoring with the MG then the cannon will hit, too. I set my convergence for 500m when I know I'm going on a gorund attack mission, 300m for A-to-A.

And don't hesitate to engage enemy planes if yu can't run away while flying the big two-seaters. All that cannon ammo set to converge at 500m means that since you can't catch anything faster than a running man - you can turn inside anything in the air. So turn and fire on the deflection to kill enemy planes.

Finally, one nasty trick: even if you are in a DF room carry at least a couple of small bombs. If you fly low (takes away the BnZer's advantage) the enemy pilot coming up on your six will be caught in the blast if you drop the bombs behind you. You migh lose your tail, but you'll survive the experience and he won't.

civildog
11-11-2005, 08:04 PM
BTW: the IL2 series 3 single seat is an outstanding turn fighter, as long as you remember that you can't run away from anything. It's always a fight to the death in those.

msalama
11-12-2005, 01:20 AM
Gents,

Many thanks for sharing, plenty of good tips there! And yep, I'm getting my own thing slowly together too - my K/D ratio is about 3 (29 air & ground kills / 10 KIAs) at the moment, so it's not TOO bad anymore I hope http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

But yep, it seems that the Sturmovik is my thing, at least for now. It kinda makes so much _sense_ to me, that ugly plane - hard to explain exactly how, but it does... Well, not that it's an EASY choice at all, of course, because just as CivilDog mentioned there your life is often very violent and short http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

But we're getting there I hope. So thank you once more, gentlemen, for your input!

Ace_Hyflyer
11-12-2005, 01:29 AM
Yeah, got to agree with you msalama. I really enjoy flying the sturmo. I have started flying Ian Boys Red 9 campaign for the original IL-2, 10 missions in the IL-2 3m (the swing wing one without the massive 37 mm guns). I plan to survive the whole thing http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif (yeah right) Will post updates when they are available.

Cya round,
Chris

msalama
11-12-2005, 03:12 AM
Will post updates when they are available.

Cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Yeah, just had my before-breakfast army base strafing mission @ the Virtualpilots - 1st time around got hit by flak, emergency landed safely & got captured. A Biffer _almost_ got me when I was on the ground already, but I saw him coming & ran the h3ll outta there so saved my a**e that time...

Took my sweet & just revenge on the 2nd go. Went back there & destroyed that pesky AA gunner & 8 ground vehicles too. So there! Yeah, that's what U get if you mess around with Comrade Salamajovski, you geezers you http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

And I actually finally understood just _why_ I like der Fliegender Panzer. It's the nature of the beast, in that you've got to do the whole hog - clean TOs & landings, a flight to target unnoticed, a fast and accurate strafing run, a mad dash out into hiding again ASAP etc. - for the thing to make any sense, and do it well, too, if you want to live! So it's the _completeness_ of the thing that really tickles my fancy, compared to DF furballing for example, where there's no such feeling of continuity / completeness IMHO.

And yes, I do brief and simplified checklists & stuff before I get airborne, too, because I'm a bloody nerd http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So all in all, the IL-2 seems to be my thing at least for now. S!

Ace_Hyflyer
11-13-2005, 07:29 AM
Well I promised updates http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So far I have finished the first six missions of the ten mission Red 9 campaign without dying once http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Note: My wing was shot off by a tank, and I got so pissed, I just hit escape>refly without waiting to bail. However, I'm pretty positive I would have got out, because I was about 300-350 m above the ground. The reason I got so pissed was this tank hit me ONCE in the wing, as I was attacking him. I was going about 310 kph, was about 600 m away, in the MIDDLE OF A THUNDERSTORM, with him shooting at a target SIX INCHES HIGH (as the front of the wing was pointing straight at him), and he dewinged me.

Other than that, four of the missions, I didn't get hit by flak, fighters, or the ground http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif The mission with the tank I got hit once, and the mission I just played (Destroy an enemy cruiser) I got shot up a couple of times, but managed to bail out.

All in all, seem to be doing pretty well.

Wish me luck for the next four!

Chris

neural_dream
11-13-2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by Ace_Hyflyer:
Well I promised updates http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

So far I have finished the first six missions of the ten mission Red 9 campaign without dying once http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Note: My wing was shot off by a tank, and I got so pissed, I just hit escape>refly without waiting to bail. However, I'm pretty positive I would have got out, because I was about 300-350 m above the ground.
It's not particularly clear whether you fly DiD; if you do then your campaign had finished. Either you would have died (350m, thunderstorm and I suppose chopped off part of the one wing are not the best conditions to bail out), or you would have gone MIA (bailed out on enemy territory).

Good luck for the next four http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Ace_Hyflyer
11-13-2005, 08:10 AM
Well, I do play DiD, but I didn't think about MIA.

Playing the original, there is no such thing, wherever you bail. Is that a user imposed, or something in PF merged. Technically, MIA wouldn't automatically mean campaign is over, as in RealLife (tm) you still have a chance of escaping, or being liberated by buddies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I don't have all that much time for flying, so for now, I will stick with DiD means I can refly so long as I didn't die, and probably not worry about MIA.

does it count as being over enemy territory, if the tanks are advancing on your guys in a nearby town?

Thanks for the comments,
Chris

neural_dream
11-13-2005, 08:36 AM
Originally posted by Ace_Hyflyer:
Well, I do play DiD, but I didn't think about MIA.

Playing the original, there is no such thing, wherever you bail. Is that a user imposed, or something in PF merged. Technically, MIA wouldn't automatically mean campaign is over, as in RealLife (tm) you still have a chance of escaping, or being liberated by buddies http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I don't have all that much time for flying, so for now, I will stick with DiD means I can refly so long as I didn't die, and probably not worry about MIA.

I see, you have checked the "No instant success" option. DiD can't be played with this one http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, or you'll have to click refly every once in a while.

About MIA i don't think you have a chance to escape in the campaigns (or never happened to me), but you can always simulate it. Choose an escape probability, say 1 out of 6 and throw the dice. Click refly if you get it http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif.


does it count as being over enemy territory, if the tanks are advancing on your guys in a nearby town?
Again your choice. Perhaps you can again use dice, giving say 50% for your escape in that case.

I'd personally use a simple linear probabilistic model which would depend only on the distance from your lines.

Or you may try probability 4/6 for distance of 0-1 km, 3/6 for 1-2km, 2/6 for 2-5km, 1/6 for 5-30km, 1/12 for more (you throw twice: in the first one you have to find the exact number and for the second one only whether it is even or odd, or something like that - you get the idea).

You know what, I think I will try to standardise the DiD mode, by posting something relevant today.

joeap
11-13-2005, 10:13 AM
Good idea neural_dream, I always play DiD, but only for dynamic campaigns (Dgen or DCg) I haven't thought of a way to do that for static campaigns.

Woah just thought of something, if don't have "no instant sucess" and if you track how many missions you have played (well it is tracked in the stats) you can restart, but hit apply at the START of every new mission...until you reach the one AFTER you died. As if you were a replacement pilot with stats (air and ground kills) set to zero.

Wow why didn't I think of that before???

Kuna15
11-13-2005, 10:32 AM
Current campaign structure is very DiD unfriendly.
About bailing/MiA status or even WiA status, there is a good chance to die on every such opportunity.
Parachute failure, fatal wounds, killed by enemy troops when captured etc. Heavy wounded pilot bailed far away from its troops is almost certainly doomed. Such things couldn't be implemented in FB.

iirc original IL-2 Sturmo campaign could be ended if pilot is killed, I just wish if there is such small feature in FB/PF too so we can hit apply and end the war in KiA status and not be forced to delete the campaign.

msalama
11-13-2005, 12:44 PM
Well, Lady Luck has been in a flighty mood lately as far as I'm concerned.

As I've mentioned, I fly at the Virtualpilots because they feature the Sturmovik. Well, I got loads of groundkills and a Biffer too earlier today! Yep, the geezer jumped me, but Comrade A. I. Vanovski, my trusty tail-end Anatoly, got his engine smoking in no time flat even when I was doing my ****edest to evade the bastage http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif So he emergency-landed, and I then coolly finished him off with a pair of rockets http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/784.gif

So that was a _good_ mission, but later... I was happily making my way to the northern coast of Gulf of Finland with an intention of making mincemeat of some enemy convoys there. Alas, maybe halfway into my trip I got attacked by a G50, who then promptly rendered my elevator controls unusable with his first burst! For some reason he didn't finish me off - out of ammo perhaps? - so I jettisoned my explodables & limped back home without a working elevator http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

Well, I survived by bailing out over the field. The Stormbird didn't, crashing into the sea nearby. A.I. Vanovich was wounded, but he survived as well. Nevertheless, that was what I'd call a _bad_ mission.

But generally speaking, it hasn't gone too badly for me. My GK/D is now 3.31 (43 / 13, from which 5 are captures), and I've gotten 3 enemy fighters as well (2 Bf-109-G2's and a B-239). So yep, I think I'm going to stick with the Sturmovik for now, even if Lady Luck sometimes smiles the other way...

PS. Good luck with your next 4, Ace_Hyflyer http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ace_Hyflyer
11-13-2005, 07:13 PM
Thanks guys,

@neural_dream, I don't have No Instant Success checked for the very good reason that I have no such option. The Original IL-2 Sturmovik (No Forgotten Battles) v1.2 (The one that was released in 2001) has no MIA, WIA data.

I am playing static campaigns, and I cannot go on if I don't succeed in my mission.

Thanks for the tips,
Chris

neural_dream
11-13-2005, 07:44 PM
Originally posted by Ace_Hyflyer:
@neural_dream, I don't have No Instant Success checked for the very good reason that I have no such option.
oops, didn't know that http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

Ace_Hyflyer
11-13-2005, 08:50 PM
No prob, thanks for the comments on DiD!

Cya round,
Chris

Ace_Hyflyer
11-13-2005, 10:02 PM
Oh well, got shot down on the ninth mission out of ten http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/cry.gif Some overachieving flak tank took off my wing at low level. I hit the ground, and was sliding okay, though I would make it. Unfortunately, a tree had other ideas http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif I will probably try again, some time, but this is the second time I have flown this campaign (finished it once, not DiD), and want to move on to something else.

Now I have started an excellent campaign called Air Scout, flying Mig-3s. Seems to be a wonderfully put together campaign, first mission was a recon. There was no minimap path, but the waypoints were listed in the briefing, so you had to navigate using the towns and roads. Completed that one with two air kills!!! Second mission was an intercept, recon plane just headed over the airbase, have to taxi, take off, and down the Ju88 before it can radio the position. You have rockets for this purpose.

I went up and downed the '88 but he toasted my engine. I had to bail out, slightly wounded, but close to the airfield, after a few patches I'll be back in action!

Cya round,
Chris

Breeze147
11-14-2005, 08:16 AM
NEVER, EVER, NEVER fly too low when attacking a train with cannons. Some of those sumbatches are carrying ammo or something and the explosion will bring you down. And, always remember to set bomb delay to at least 3 seconds. Never go after TOO, they will get you everytime. A Sturmo can turn inside of ANYTHING!!