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Blood_Splat
05-23-2006, 03:12 PM
Which spit can catch a 109 F4 after a B&Z tactic as you climb away with an obvious energy advantage?

VW-IceFire
05-23-2006, 03:41 PM
Obvious setup but I'll bite anyways.

The answer is none.

BUT...if the 109 pilot is stupid and he booms...and then zooms too quickly without extending and gently pulling up thereby increasing his range from target as well as maximizing his energy advantage then its quite possible for a Spitfire doing a decent speed prior to being bounced to nose high and flutter on the wings long enough to hit you going past.

Most of these sorts of BNZ going wrong involve two things:

1) A target aircraft with a high initial speed and good AoA or energy performance

2) An attacking aircraft with a pilot who too quickly zooms

The two specific types of aircraft matter little. What went wrong here was the pilot. And believe me...I've made that mistake a number of times in the 109 and the 190 and the P-47 and it frequently ends in disappointment and disbelief. Time, paitence, and technique solves this problem.

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-23-2006, 03:44 PM
That would be 'versus' and not 'verse'. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Your scenario is a bit vague to really answer. Too many unknown variables. If the 109 has a considerable 'E' advantage (and a good pilot) then the spit should be dust regardless. If the Spit jockey turns tightly into the 109and the 109 pilot falls for the dodge-parry-thrust routine then it feasible they would soon be on more equal footing...but again, if the 109 pilot is worth his salt he won't sacrifice his total advantage anyway.


TB

Blood_Splat
05-23-2006, 10:07 PM
Well I made the climb out on a shallow angle not to waste my energy this was in WWII online and I don't think I'm going to fly fighters in that game anymore lol.

Xiolablu3
05-23-2006, 10:14 PM
It is possible in some situations, but you have to be very cunning to do it. I have only pulled it off a couple of times.

As he dives down, you dive and start to pick up speed and as he shoots you may be able to match his speed in the dive. If he missed then pull back up and you may be able to get a shot at him while he is climbing back up thanks to the speed you gained. It takes perfect timing, and a bit of luck tho. Its basically trying to trick him into believing that you are slower than you actually are as he dives on you.

Remember that a pursuer always has the advantage when you are climbing becasue he can target your plane and climb at a slightly shallower angle and so pick up more speed, at the last minute pulling his nose up and shooting. Try not to climb unless you KNOW he is much slower.

Your question is pretty vague and if you were sure you were much faster than him in the dive, then no he shouldnt be able to catch you. Are you sure he didnt just get a lucky shot in as you zoomed back up? That is quite possible if he pulls his nose up in desperation as you zoom back up. (obviously stalling straight after)

Do you have the Il2 merged collection? If you want to fly fighters online (or even bombers) you should get the series. Although its an old game now, its still by far the best and has been constantly updated over the years, the plane list is massive now.

Stigler_9_JG52
05-23-2006, 10:42 PM
Xiolablu3 is onto something good there... that "bunt" move can create quite a nasty surprise for a 109 pilot who thinks he's holding most of the cards.

Really, though, with the horrid energy bleed modeling in this sim, the Spit should be able to dodge the 109 at will, and since the planes are relatively evenly matched at everything except turning (edge to the Spit as that should be), the Spit can rapidly deplete the 109's energy advantage and get angles.

WWMaxGunz
05-23-2006, 11:02 PM
If it's real it's repeatable. Reapeatable means track-able.

Jaws2002
05-23-2006, 11:04 PM
Doesn't matter what aircraft are involved, this can happen easy if you mess up your Z&B pass or have little idea about energy and angles.
I've seen so many people cry like kids when were picked up on their zoom climb.
Many cut the throttle for too long and/or even drop flaps to stay slow so they can get a good shot.
I've seen a lot of guys that bounce a plane when at the bottom of it's dive and get waxed on the way up.
A lot of guys don't extend before pulling up and their flight path is too predictable. Is easy to take a snapshot if you can predict his flight path on the way up. Remember, you don't have to catch him, only your cannon shells have to do it.

I'd say there are just a few aircraft in the game that are very dangerous to the Z&B'er. The pilot is what you have to worry about. Not the plane.

jurinko
05-24-2006, 12:19 AM
Never suppose that Spit or Lavockin are not dangerous because you are flying 300kph faster. They can allways raise their nose up not depending on their speed, even after sharp 360?turn, and climb steeply at 200kph until they catch you. If you extend, you are only giving them time during which they start gaining E on you, as you will lose 300m after each pass and they will gain 200m after each sharp turn and nose pointing upwards maneuver. You can extend if you want to disengage, otherwise you have to climb directly above them, because their only tactics is to pull, pull and point the nose up whenever possible. Then you have few brief moments for hitting them, but if you miss in following two passes you are already in disadvantage and have to run away, if you are lucky and have faster plane. D-9 can do more passes, Antons maybe two and Messers are useless because in high speed you can´t give a proper lead because of poor elevator and in medium speeds you have already given up your speed advantage and get outmaneuvered. The point is, you have to be good marksman and to hit such an enemy as soon as possible, because you will soon lose the chance to repeat it.

Ratsack
05-24-2006, 01:35 AM
Originally posted by Stigler_9_JG52:
...

Really, though, with the horrid energy bleed modeling in this sim, the Spit should be able to dodge the 109 at will, and since the planes are relatively evenly matched at everything except turning (edge to the Spit as that should be), the Spit can rapidly deplete the 109's energy advantage and get angles.

The horror! The horror!


Why do you bother?

Ratsack

alert_1
05-24-2006, 02:04 AM
Messers are useless because in high speed you can´t give a proper lead because of poor elevator and in medium speeds you have already given up your speed advantage and get outmaneuvered.
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http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/agreepost.gif
exact and prompt trimming is esential skill in Me109, Me109 and Spit have the same powerloading but in Spit I always feeling like havong a lot of more energy at my fingertips..I wonder why this feeling comming to me so persistently http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

danjama
05-24-2006, 02:07 AM
Same discussion, different day...