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Dr.Trespasser
04-18-2005, 08:33 PM
Hey people, after reading a thread that was talking about the Canadian Navy being undermodeled I got curious and decided to do some research. It seems that their merchant navy was grossly undermodeled. There were a huge number of ships over the "small freighter" tonnage which seems to be the max the game allows for them. Look at these sites for more info on the sizes of their ships. It seems safe to say that adding Liberty ships, C2s, T1s, T2s and possibly C3s to their roster in the data files would be a good idea to reflect reality.

http://fortships.tripod.com/

http://www.familyheritage.ca/Articles/merchant1.html#I

Concerning the Canadian armed Navy, I looked around for some info on this and compared it to their roster and from what I see, the devs did it ok for the ships have been modeled in this sim. The only big things that are lacking that really need to be added are their two Ameer class escort carriers (not modeled in the sim), which are important force multipliers, and somethings needs to be done about their "Bangor" class minesweeper/convoy escorts (also not modeled in the sim) of which it seems they had 54 of, a number I think would have quite an effect on the war.

If you want to know their exact WWII armed navy look here.

http://www.hazegray.org/navhist/canada/ww2/

Also if you all dont know about it

www.hazegray.org (http://www.hazegray.org)

is an awesome naval site for present navies and past navies for mostly US and Canadian countries.

Tyke909
04-19-2005, 11:18 PM
I believe you are right, the Canadians can feel a bit slighted in this regard.

Canada had (probably still has) a large merchant marine and during WW2 they turned out a lot of escort vessels for the RN from the shipyards and had a not insignificant fleet.

Unfortunately like most WW2 games the input of countries other than USA, Germany, Japan and occasionally the UK is ignored. Ok you could argue that Canada, Australia, India, New Zealand and a multitude of other places sailed/fought/flew under the British flag, but in shipping terms I believe they all flew their own flags.

InfectiousDust
04-20-2005, 12:01 AM
Agreed. Even though Canada had/has approximately 1/10 the population of the United Stated, it still sailed the fourth largest navy in the world during WWII. It's pathetic that many choose to selectively ignore this point.

This is the one case that I don't mind Canada being slighted though. It saddens me everytime I torpedo my nation's vessels! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bulwark_
04-20-2005, 12:07 AM
Yeah I think I would feel kind of bad about that too! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Giganoni
04-20-2005, 12:23 AM
Well, although its true Canada in the game doesn't really have any of the big merchant ships, just pretend the Canadian Merchant Marine (or whatever name it was under) is so good at avoiding your sub, that you'll never catch any of the big merchants. See, that way its no longer a slight to Canada.

Mr_Berkut
04-20-2005, 05:37 AM
I know you guys are talking about Canadian Navy being under modeled, but so you aren't feeling alone take a glance at Russian (Soviet) Navy. Apparently all they did entire WWII was fish and protect their priceless fish with their mighty armed trawlers! At least that's what SH3's developers think.

seawolf869
04-20-2005, 08:06 AM
Every country's navy in this game needs adjusted. Where the hell are the French warships? They had battleships too. I have only seen one French small merchant.

Does Italy become an enemy in 1943. And where are their warships?

Franzen
04-20-2005, 08:31 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seawolf869:
Every country's navy in this game needs adjusted. Where the hell are the French warships? They had battleships too. I have only seen one French small merchant.

Does Italy become an enemy in 1943. And where are their warships? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Maybe the Royal Navy is still blocking the French from leaving Tunisia. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif See, the game is better than you thought. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
04-20-2005, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Giganoni:
Well, although its true Canada in the game doesn't really have any of the big merchant ships, just pretend the Canadian Merchant Marine (or whatever name it was under) is so good at avoiding your sub, that you'll never catch any of the big merchants. See, that way its no longer a slight to Canada. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey, don't give away all our secrets! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif That's why we don't need to upgrade our navy today. What you can't see won't hurt you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Fritz Franzen

jhelix70
04-20-2005, 09:21 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seawolf869:
Every country's navy in this game needs adjusted. Where the hell are the French warships? They had battleships too. I have only seen one French small merchant.

Does Italy become an enemy in 1943. And where are their warships? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think most of the Italian navy was sunk by 1943!!

quillan
04-20-2005, 09:37 AM
http://www.4osx.com/gallery/data/513/2553672canadian_navy.jpg

indylavi
04-20-2005, 09:46 AM
Well I think it's due to gameplay myself. Sim fans freak out when you mention gameplay but after all. This is a game. Also time restrictions. I think most gamers (most not all) spend most of their time in and/or around British controled waters.

OneTinSoldier77
04-20-2005, 09:53 AM
Hehe, that's a pretty funny pic there quillan! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

U-49
04-20-2005, 09:53 AM
Nice pic quillan.

It's reassurung to see that our navy has upgraded its canoe. Do you know if it upgraded all five?

Messervy
04-20-2005, 09:58 AM
He`ll sink himself if he only touches the trigger.

Franzen
04-20-2005, 10:21 AM
Once the captain takes his helmet off he is in stealth mode. Radar can't detect him any more. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

Franzen
04-20-2005, 10:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by quillan:
http://www.4osx.com/gallery/data/513/2553672canadian_navy.jpg <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In early 1995, Canadian warships seized Spanish fishing vessels in international waters and confiscated illegal nets, whose mesh size was so small that turbot too young to spawn would get caught. International regulations predating UNCLOS but adopted into it decree that in order to guarantee the survival of species, fish cannot be caught before reaching a certain spawning age.

While the Spanish authorities do not deny their fishers used illegal nets, they insisted that the seizure of their ships was a breach of international law, and the evidence so discovered could not be used against them. Some called Canada's actions the equivalent of high seas piracy.

Beware of Captain Canuk on the high-seas! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Fritz Franzen

quillan
04-20-2005, 11:48 AM
I've always like that pic, but it isn't mine. I saw it a few years ago, and when this thread started, I just did a google image search for "Canadian Navy", and it was the first entry.

seawolf869
04-20-2005, 12:44 PM
No, the Italian navy was NOT all sunk by 1943. For U-boats in the Med at that time, they would present some juicy targets.

dagamecat
04-20-2005, 12:54 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by seawolf869:
No, the Italian navy was NOT all sunk by 1943. For U-boats in the Med at that time, they would present some juicy targets. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

Teabagga7
04-20-2005, 01:39 PM
got to love the Canadian pride http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i got real excited when i bumped into a tribal class destroyer. lol, i let her go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

InfectiousDust
04-20-2005, 05:38 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Teabagga7:
got to love the Canadian pride http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i got real excited when i bumped into a tribal class destroyer. lol, i let her go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for savin your teabaggin for someone else man! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif

Franzen
04-21-2005, 05:52 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by InfectiousDust:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Teabagga7:
got to love the Canadian pride http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

i got real excited when i bumped into a tribal class destroyer. lol, i let her go http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for savin your teabaggin for someone else man! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he's a Leaf's fan http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/10.gif

Fritz Franzen http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif