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View Full Version : Manual targeting - perfect solutions? exchange of experiences



Capt.Newbie
02-26-2008, 05:45 AM
I've been pondering a bit about manual targeting methods the last days, trying to find a method for the "perfect" torpedo solution. After a whole shipload (12000 kt minimum) of mistake estimations/calculations I've come close to finding some methods for real sharpshooters. Problem is, angle calculations (sine, cosine...) are a little bit too hard to perform with mental arithmetic, so all of them need a real good calculator or, much better, a second computer. I dropped those approaches because I don't think it is very funny to play a WWII sim with 21th century technology support. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

My next idea to simplify my approaches was to establish a method that does not rely on range findings, since I've found those to be most inexact. No real problem (provided target does not change course and speed), if you like to pause the game 5 - 10 times during one enemy course calculation and use a real good drafting board (out of game). http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif

I've stopped those attempts yesterday, enterd game, blew up several merchants from 300-400 m with torpedo salvos and felt much better. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif

Anybody who had more success on this?

Foehammer-1
02-26-2008, 09:20 AM
Yes. Older math textbooks have tables of sines, cosines and tangents. That's before the age of computers and calculators. U-boats had them too. And it's surprising how accurate they are.

They also used logarithmic rulers. My generation (including me, and even my parents for that matter), has very vague understanding of how it works, but my old math teacher in Ukraine solved very complex trig problems faster than anyone can do them with a calculator...

So it's possible http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kaleun1961
02-26-2008, 01:09 PM
A lot of the U-boat aces simply eyeballed their solutions. Otto Kretschmer, for example, used to get so close to convoys, or within convoy columns, that he could make quick visual estimates of range and speed. A good number of them could even tell through a periscope by the size of a target's bow wave how fast it was doing. Later in the war, when it was harder to get so close to convoys, it was more difficult to make such estimates and tonnage scores dropped.

Messervy
02-26-2008, 02:09 PM
Here is a link on how to do it without modern gadgets. Wazoo's manual targeting (http://www.paulwasserman.net/SHIII/)

He also provides a templates to make a calculation wheel.

Stallwort
02-26-2008, 07:25 PM
I used to let the computer do quite a bit of the figuring for me, but have since found the following add on to be beyond amazing....

OLC_GUI_113_for_SH3_1.4b.rar fundamentally changed how I play the game - with much more consideration and strategy. Stalking takes on new meaning and purpose as I gather the attack information and wait for the best moment (position, weather, time of day). It took a little practice, but now all my shots are manual and I rarely miss. My tonnage dropped a bit as well as I'm taking more time to set up shots. However, the trade off is a much more satisfying kill (or frustration at the one(s) that get away!)
I'd also look for the video tutorial that goes with this mod. Its a MUST watch item. The mod would be imposable to use without watching a few times and taking careful notes.
86% realism.

Foehammer-1
02-27-2008, 07:38 AM
I had a screenshot somewhere, but I think i deleted it.

It was my approach to the problem without fancy calculations.

Suppose you figure out a course of a ship. Easiest way is to observe visually, if it's too far away, dive and listen to it. You need to have sonar for this to work, or cheat and turn on map updates, so you see the contact lines on the map.

Now, listen to the ship and ask your sonar guy for range. Now go to the map, and draw a line of that length and on the bearing the ships was on. Plant a mark there.

Wait 1 or 2 minutes, do it again. When you have 3 or 4 marks, draw a line of best fit. That's the ship's course.

Now if you are close, get within 1000m of that line. If not, surface and run a little bit ahead, then submerge again.

Now listen to him again, and plant another mark. Wait 3 minutes. Plant another mark.
Now you need the nomograph, you get it with GWX, or on Subsim downloads page.

Since you know the distance and time, you can now determine speed. It's surprisingly accurate.

And if you don't want to do all that, get within 500-ish meters, put a T1 on fast setting, eyeball it and you won't miss http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kaleun1961
02-27-2008, 08:00 AM
Celeon, isn't it supposed to be three minutes and fifteen seconds? Everything I've ever read about the nomograph states, "3:15" for the intervals.

Capt.Newbie
02-27-2008, 09:48 AM
First, thx for all the good tips, espacially to Messervy for the link to Wazoo's guide and to Foehammer-1 (I completely forgot about those tables, i 'll try to get some)

I use a method quite similar to Foehammer-1 but without need of a nomograph (nevertheless a cool nautic tool):
I try to figure out the exact course of my target and draw a enemy course line.
As the enemy ship approaches I start taking bearing to definite times (usually all 1 min 5 sec or 3 min 15 sec) and draw bearing lines. From the intersections of my bearing lines with the course line I get the distances the enemy ship travelled and therefore the speed of my target.
As long as the angel between course and bearing line is not too small, you get far more accurate speed values than with other methods (since bearing is more exact than distance readings), as long as you have got a real exact course of target. And thats the part I 'm still working on.

Foehammer-1
02-27-2008, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by Kaleun1961:
Celeon, isn't it supposed to be three minutes and fifteen seconds? Everything I've ever read about the nomograph states, "3:15" for the intervals.

It's Foe, not Celeon :P

And yes, it is 3 minutes 15 seconds. However, that is used in the Wazoo's guide for reasons still not clear to me (I read it a looong time ago, actually more like skimmed it). 3 minutes works just fine with the nomograph. But if you really feel like it, go ahead and use 3:15 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Capt.Newbie
02-28-2008, 06:05 AM
The strange target observation time of 3:15 derives from the conversion of m/s in kn.
1 kn is 0.5144444... m/s. In 3:15 an enemy ship going 1 kn travels a distance of 0.10031... km.
Therefore, if you observe an enemy ship for 3:15, you can easily read the speed in kn by measuring the travel distance. (if travel distance is, for instance 0.6 km, ship goes 6 kn)

I don't know the nomograph of GWX but I guess it should be independent of observation time (if you don't use too short times).