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gx-warspite
03-05-2006, 04:23 PM
I never seem to be able to catch P-47Ds when I fly one, and I never seem to catch the Dos when I fly the P-47.

carguy_
03-05-2006, 04:42 PM
I would say you need to be fast enough to be careless about your six.

Personally I don`t fly planes which have rearview as bad as 70ft trucks.

LStarosta
03-05-2006, 05:23 PM
You don't need a rear view in an airplane that doesn't need to worry about anything on its six. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

ParaB
03-05-2006, 05:40 PM
Originally posted by gx-warspite:
I never seem to be able to catch P-47Ds when I fly one, and I never seem to catch the Dos when I fly the P-47.

You might want to use both engines. It helps. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Doug_Thompson
03-05-2006, 06:16 PM
Perhaps the Do's are gently climbing away. The Do seems to pull away faster while climbing.

Also, Do speed is good but acceleration is not. It takes a while to build up.

Because of it's good climb, it should also be possible in a Do to do a little shallow dive at first to build up some speed, then level out quickly and start a shallow climb.

mortoma
03-05-2006, 07:22 PM
Are you talking about AI?? That may be part of the problem. If YOU fly the P-47, it ain't going to go quite as fast as the AI can go in it. Also the same with the DO, the AI can always go faster than you can in the same aircraft. Some of that is because the AI don't have to slow down for overheating like you would as overheat is not coded into the game code for them. But overheat aside, they can accel and decell faster than you can in the same aircraft too. And are slightly faster than you no matter the overheat condition. I have AI flight mates scoot( when chasing enemy ) by me like I'm not even moving way before I even get to overheat condition at times, so that proves they are slightly faster even if you discount the no overheat advantage they have. Did you ever notice they have magical "airbrakes" too??

gx-warspite
03-05-2006, 08:07 PM
Haha no, not AI.

I guess I'll have to fiddle with prop pitch and radiator settings.

darkhorizon11
03-06-2006, 02:21 AM
Rule 1. Climb

Rule 2. Follow Rule 1

The Dornier has A LOT of excess horsepower which means it is a little bit faster than most of its contemporary props and it climbs A LOT faster.

anarchy52
03-06-2006, 05:15 AM
Originally posted by darkhorizon11:
Rule 1. Climb

Rule 2. Follow Rule 1

The Dornier has A LOT of excess horsepower which means it is a little bit faster than most of its contemporary props and it climbs A LOT faster.

I must say I'm a bit disappointed with Do-335, especially the acceleration.

What I read about Do-335 suggests:
- outstanding acceleration
- very high level speed
- good manuverability especially turning circle and high speed roll

However, in game Do-335 seems to have poor to mediocre acceleration and top level speed at least on the deck is nothing to write home about. Turning circle is poor, in dogfight it's similar or worse then P-47.

I expected more from this plane.

F6_Ace
03-06-2006, 06:10 AM
Originally posted by carguy_:
I would say you need to be fast enough to be careless about your six.

Personally I don`t fly planes which have rearview as bad as 70ft trucks.

Press F6! Never worry about clever bandit creeping up on you again.

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 08:05 AM
The Do 335 does have decent acceleration, high speed and good manuverability, especially in turning circle and high speed roll -- considering that it's an absolutely enormous twin-engined plane.

The Do 335 should be compared to the P-38 or the Mosquito, rather than to the Thunderbolt or the Tempest.

It's a better bomber destroyer than anything else. It has a powerful armament concentrated in the nose, a very strong climb that allows it to get back into position quickly, and more maneuverability and responsiveness that can be expected in a plane of its size.

alert_1
03-06-2006, 09:27 AM
Do335A0 (in the game) had "only" 2x1750hp, Do335A1 had 2x2240hp with MW50 on...

anarchy52
03-06-2006, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
The Do 335 does have decent acceleration, high speed and good manuverability, especially in turning circle and high speed roll -- considering that it's an absolutely enormous twin-engined plane.

The Do 335 should be compared to the P-38 or the Mosquito, rather than to the Thunderbolt or the Tempest.

It's a better bomber destroyer than anything else. It has a powerful armament concentrated in the nose, a very strong climb that allows it to get back into position quickly, and more maneuverability and responsiveness that can be expected in a plane of its size.

For the absolutelly last time: size has nothing at all to do with aircraft manuverability.

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 09:57 AM
Fair enough, anarchy52.

However, the history of this aircraft is that Dornier proposed it as a fighter, but it was then ordered as a bomber. It was built as such, then converted mid-project into a fighter-bomber.

I love the plane, but it suffered from a confused development history.

It's just a little frustrating to have the echoes still ringing from "Arrgh. Blasted uber German fantasy plane. Ban it! Ban it!" and now hear cries of "Drat. It's not uber. It's such a disappointment."

F6_Ace
03-06-2006, 10:01 AM
Drat. It's not uber. It's such a disappointment.


yes. instead you get '...it's not uber. don't ban it and use it instead of me262'

Luftkillier
03-06-2006, 11:30 AM
Turn it on. Its so uber not much else is needed.

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 12:17 PM
*sigh* I'm doomed. The reds think it's uber. The blues think its scuttled. I think it's just about right and has to be used carefully for anything except bomber killing and ground attack. Even with ground attack, it's a big target.

I've taken the thread off track, too. The original question was: What's the trick of getting the most (speed) out of the Do-335? What's the best tactics for the plane, anyway?

BlitzPig_DDT
03-06-2006, 12:54 PM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
*sigh* I'm doomed. The reds think it's uber. The blues think its scuttled.

It was fine in 4.03. It has been scuttled in 4.04.

anarchy52
03-06-2006, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Doug_Thompson:
Fair enough, anarchy52.

However, the history of this aircraft is that Dornier proposed it as a fighter, but it was then ordered as a bomber. It was built as such, then converted mid-project into a fighter-bomber.


I think integral bomb bay was something that was envisioned quite early on in the project. Similar to 262 there was considerable pointless bickering on the planes role. It seems strange that germans who were one of the first to recognize the value of multirole aircraft were wasting time on such things.

Do-335 would be a good multirole aircraft. However (cliche warning) it came to late to show it's qualities.

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 02:14 PM
Re: 4.03 and 4.04

It's definitely been toned down from 4.03, but can still climb away from anything propeller-driven.

But no, it's not nearly as immune as it used to be.

============

Re: Multirole

Agreed, and not just the roles portrayed in this game, either. For instance, this plane would have made an excellent photo reconnaissance platform. With a second crewman and extra fuel in that internal bomb bay, it would have made a great long-range recon plane, too.

Would have been nice if the American's had come up with this configuration. It would have been a great long-range, land-based fighter-bomber for the Pacific Theater. Whatever it's other weakness, this plane in 4.04 is a much better fighter than the P-38.

=========

Re: How to get the most out of it.

Climb away at 300 kmh without flaps. That will pull away from just about anything -- but beware of snipers. The rear engine is quite vulnerable.

I use more half-loops in the Do 335 than any other plane. Its turn isn't great and is also very rough. The Do 335 can lose altitude in a turn easily, too. With that great climb, though, it's not hard to pull far ahead of an enemy, get some level speed and then half-loop the thing. It then rolls upright very easily. You lose speed but easily gain about 400 meters of height after you've already outclimbed the opposition.

Somebody once said you can manipulate the engines to whip this plane around in a turn, but I've never managed it.

I've had real trouble getting a barrel roll out of this plane. It spins easily enough but it wants to keep going straight, spiraling along without throwing off anybody's gunnery.

Stall characteristics are forgiving. You can keep climbing straight and not stall until you're down to 160 kmh. Once the stall starts, cutting power will bring it out almost by itself. I've applied some opposite rudder in a spin, but that's about it. It will fall a good 1000 meters if you're not careful, however.

I've stalled in a turn more than at any other time, another reason I've started using more half-loops.

It dives smoothly, although I often have to cut power to get it into a smooth Split-S. This plane wants to climb. It gets cranky if you keep pointing it down.

JadehawkII
03-06-2006, 05:46 PM
I find the Do-335A-0 a good plane to go....Train busting! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
You and a wingman are all that's needed providing you take along some small bombs or even a couple of bigger ones. Get the Locomotive first and then because all the guns are in the nose, just fly down the length of the train and blast em away. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif
You will be a happy camper knowing you were working on the railway today! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Doug_Thompson
03-06-2006, 09:12 PM
Checked it out against the AI, and a late-model P-47 can come give a Do-335 a good run at high altitude (7Km+)

Darn that supercharger on a Pratt & Whitney.

Granted, it was an AI P-47, so it flew a little "better." Still, the Do 335 had to rely on raw speed a bit more than climb. Even then, the P-47 did slowly gain until shortly before my engines overheated -- which was probably sometime after his engine had already gotten too warm. I was able to throttle back and get to a normal temp, and still pull very slowly away. I went back to 110 percent after cooling off for short bursts, and pulled away a bit faster.

Doug_Thompson
03-31-2006, 11:30 PM
So I'm checking out the Do-335 in the latest version of "Il-2 Compare."

In case after case, the Do-335 is better off maintaining a high speed with a gradual climb. At 400 kmh or better, the Do-335 can outclimb all but some late model Russians (not including jets.)

There is one significant exception, however -- the P-47.

Against that particular airplane (and at low altitude), the Do-335 does well with an extremely step climb, at air speeds of less than 300 kmh. It can still outclimb the P-47 at all faster speeds, but if the Thud's lining up a shot on you, you might consider giving it a steep one.

I've only tried it once, but sure enough, the Do-335 pulled away from the P-47 with no problem in a very steep climb.

Now, this was only at very low altitude. The question of this thread was high-altitude performance. It appears from the "compare" graphs that the P-47 outperforms the Do-335 above 6,300 meters, although the advantage is not great. Above 8,400 meters, though, the Thud doesn't even need >100 percent power to outperform the Do-335 with its throttles shoved to the wall.

There are other things to consider. The Thud's better all-round visability is a big advantage, especially once height takes all the Do-335's advantages away. The Do-335 is one of the few fighters that's a bigger target than the Thud. With 8 MGs, a Thud almost can't miss. Finally -- as is well known -- nothing outdives a Thud.

Hawgdog
04-01-2006, 06:19 AM
One of my all time favorite planes as I approach my 4th year here.
Take the 1000k bomb, always.
Rad on auto or open and 95% throttle. Get the needed altitude. Fly it like a 190,not a stuka, semi-shallow attack dive as the target gets covered by the dashboard, let 'er rip.
If you get attacked, dont jink more than needed (if they are right on top of you, its over unless you have help or luck) Close the rad, punch it, forget climbing-gogogo. You can run overheat for several minutes before it damages anything, once you are far enough from pest open rads-drop throttle to 95% again, and keep eye on 6.
When I first flew it, I was getting pounded by P-47's and that fantasy red plane, 25#spit.
Now, I carefully think out the attack, plan an escape, dont try and mix it up with a tempting target, unless you can pound it and not lose E.

What really sucks is the only time I can find it is in hack quake servers, rarely in cockpit/externals (an excellet pit, as complex as the 262) And never in max difficulty servers. Too bad. "waaa" never existed...yeah, like every frikkin' 109 had nose cannons, and 190's weren't outnumbered four to one on every front they fought on...
If you get a P-47 coming in hot, go to combat flaps- zero throttle and turn back on your path. He'll be blacked out by the time you are well gone. Take the long way home.

Doug_Thompson
04-01-2006, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by Hawgdog:
If you get attacked, dont jink more than needed{emphasis added}(if they are right on top of you, its over unless you have help or luck) Close the rad, punch it, forget climbing-gogogo. You can run overheat for several minutes before it damages anything, once you are far enough from pest open rads-drop throttle to 95% again, and keep eye on 6.

When I first flew it, I was getting pounded by P-47's and that fantasy red plane, 25#spit.

Now, I carefully think out the attack, plan an escape, dont try and mix it up with a tempting target, unless you can pound it and not lose E.

Even though I think the sustained climb is one of the Do-335's real strengths, I can't argue with your approach, Hawgdog. The Do can haul. No denying it. If you have the speed, you can get the height later.

Two words sum up flying the Do-335 properly: "Keep momentum."

mortoma
04-01-2006, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by LStarosta:
You don't need a rear view in an airplane that doesn't need to worry about anything on its six. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif That depends on whether your adversary is human or AI!! I had a LA-5FN on my tail flying that bird once and I could not shake it no matter how fast I flew. Could not outdive the SOB either.