View Full Version : I still don't have my landings down

08-13-2007, 09:36 AM
Are the any word on the web about this that may help me? Any advise?

This brings up another question about take offs. Is there a more proper way to do this because too fast to ascend can damage the plane. I think I'm fine on that though, I don't measure in numbers what to do, but I always take off at an angle where the start looks like the plane is floating.

08-13-2007, 11:34 AM
Hi lapiii! You need some pattern work! Let me describe a landing pattern for you. A landing pattern is a rectangular pattern around the runway with the runway forming one of the long sides of the rectangle. This is how we do it in real life and it allows you to see deviations in your flight path and correct before a problem develops. First, please excuse my assumption that you do not already know these things. Second, I will be using miles per hour and feet for my description, convert or set your speed bar accordingly!

Set yourself up with a A6M2 at a paved airfield. The A6M2 is an ideal trainer and the paved runway is easier to see.

Taking off: Lined up with the runway, advance power smoothly to full and maintain runway centerline with rudders. If you find yourself drifting to one side or the other, first stop the drift, and then if necessary correct gradually back to center. Your control stick should be in a neutral position. Your tail will rise of it's own accord as speed increases. Shortly after this occurs, apply gentle back pressure to the stick and the aircraft will fly itself off the ground. Gear up and flaps up as speed builds. Fly the runway heading (this is known as the upwind leg of the traffic pattern). After you reach 500 feet, make a 90 degree turn to the left. Continue climbing. You are now on the crosswind leg of the traffic pattern.

Crosswind leg: Continue your climb, leveling off at 1000 feet. After 15 seconds or so, make another 90 degree turn to the left. This turn puts you on the downwind leg of the pattern.

Downwind leg: This leg of the pattern should be flown parallel to the runway, at 1000 feet and 100mph. trim the airplane and adjust your power so that the airplane will maintain it's speed and altitude with little input from you (this may take some practice). Maintain your heading to fly parallel to the runway, adjusting as necessary. When your left wingtip is in line with the end of the runway (we call this 'abeam the numbers'), extend your gear and lower flaps to the combat setting. Maintain your airspeed, you should start to descend. Keep watching the end of the runway. When the end of the runway is halfway between the wingtip and your tail, turn 90 degrees to the left. You are now on the base leg of the pattern.

Base leg: This leg should be flown perpendicular to the runway. Maintain airspeed. Extend flaps to the takeoff setting. We will be controlling our airspeed with the elevators, that is, with the stick. Lowering the nose to speed up and raising it to slow down. If your are trimmed properly, little input should be necessary. We will control our altitude/rate of descent with throttle, adding power if we are descending too quickly, reducing it if we descend too slowly. How do we know if we are descending at the correct rate? The end of the runway should be in a constant position in your windscreen. (In a real airplane, we could take a grease pencil and put a dot on the windscreen where we see the runway end. If the runway end moves up in relation to the dot, we are descending too quickly - add power. If the runway end moves down in relation to the dot, we are not descending quickly enough - reduce power. I should add that changing configuration [flaps/gear] will change where the dot ought to be in relation to the runway.) Maintain airspeed. Turn 90 degrees to the left to line up with the runway. You are now on final. (A note, this turn from base to final is one that requires some judgment on your part as there are many variables. You could start your turn quite early and use a very shallow bank angle, or start late and need a steep bank angle. You will almost certainly overshoot or undershoot this turn in the course of your practice. If you see that your turn will carry you past the runway centerline (ie, an overshoot), you could steepen your turn. This will help to a point, but puts you in danger of stalling rather close to the ground. A better plan is to allow the overshoot and continue your turn to bring you back to the runway centerline. If your turn will not bring you into line with the centerline (ie, an undershoot), lessen your bank to correct.)

Final: This leg is flown on the extended runway centerline at a constant airspeed and rate of descent (ideally). Extend landing flaps. Maintain the position of the runway end with respect to your imaginary dot on the windscreen. In the last 50 to 100 feet or so above the runway, start to look down the runway, to better judge your position. When you are about to contact the runway, level off (this is know as the roundout), and smoothly reduce power. Hold the aircraft in level flight as the speed reduces, which will result in the airplane taking on a progressively higher nose up attitude (this is known as the flare). At some point the aircraft will contact the runway, track the centerline with your rudders. (Another note, the roundout and flare require a great deal of practice to attain the necessary judgment as to when, how much, and how fast.)

Going around: If you find your landing approach gone all wrong, go around for another try. From the landing configuration: Set power smoothly to maximum, reduce flaps to takeoff, and retract gear. As you climb to 1000 feet (pattern altitude), continue raising your flaps. Fly the pattern again.

Hopefully, this is of some use to you. There are many variables, and you will no doubt refine what I offer as you gain experience (100mph is a little fast on final for an A6M2). Speeds, distance, altitude, are all variables that you will adjust to find a comfortable landing pattern for you, with the ultimate goal being less reliance on the pattern to help you judge your landing approach - for those times when you come in on half a wing and a prayer...!

08-13-2007, 12:12 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif some good advise! and just keep practicing......sow will have a couple of 2 seat trainer's, that should help alot for future new player's....if they can get someone to go up with them http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

08-13-2007, 12:26 PM
That was very good info from erco415. Follow that advice.

I'll just relay some info that may help you. I learned the takeoff/landing patterns in the A6M Zero, and while a great handling training A/C, the airspeed indicator is a little funky and is calibrated in knots. Since it seems that most of this game's community thinks in terms of meters / kmh, I'll offer my advice:

--Use the speedbar till you get used to the transposing of figures.

-- Find out what the stall speed is when you fly, in both "clean" and "dirty" configurations, as this may vary depending on how you equip your plane. Just fly along level and throttle back till you literally buffet and stall, and note those speeds before recovering. You especially want to know your dirty stall speed, as this is the speed you never want to go below on ( final ) approach.

-- Make your pattern orbit altitude about 300/350 meters.

-- Make your basic pattern speed about 240 kmh

-- A decent rule of thumb is your altitude should be about 180 to 200 Meters when you turn final from base. Remember your dirty stall speed and maintain about 20 to 25 kmh above that as you jocky the throttle and elevators to maintain your descent angle. As erco415 says, speed is pitch, power is altitude.

-- If you're in the Zero, you can open your canopy to help see the pattern easier to line up your turns. You can also raise the seat to see over the nose, but I personally find this distorts my "seat of the pants" feel of altitude just before and during flare on final.

"The secret to a good landing is...A good approach"

08-13-2007, 12:41 PM

08-13-2007, 01:38 PM
I just made an instructional video of a landing circuit.

Here you go. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD5WkusBMQ0)

Hi-res version (http://files.filefront.com//;8308599;;/)

Oh and this was heavily influenced by Waldo.Pepper's video on realistic landings, so I would like to thank him for helping me get my landings sorted out.

08-13-2007, 04:50 PM
Great video Shura! Using 180 degree turns versus 2 90 degree turns is certainly more representative of how it was really done in the time period and offers a better view of the runway to boot. And it may be somewhat easier to judge how that turn is working out for the neophyte. You do give something up in that visibility to the right is compromised, but unless the traffic situation is chaotic, that ought not to matter. I think too that having most of your configuration changes done before final gives the new pilot less trim/attitude/power changes to process just when the ground is getting close. Still, your video is exactly where it's all headed, that is to say, that's how to land a fighter. Great! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

08-13-2007, 07:23 PM
Keep practicing, after 6 years playing this sim, I still don't nail all my landings, I usually survive them nowdays

08-13-2007, 08:00 PM
Sometimes it`s just about `feel`.

come in to the runway with patience. make sure you have a long run up. As soon as you see the runway and are on line to it (on approach), reduce throttle to a sensible level , about 60%, drop flaps to landing. dip the nose, reduce speed some more and allow your natural descent to bring you in...

Keep calm. You can check speed if want. It shouldn`t be lower than 110mph. Dip the nose a bit if it is or increase speed slightly, but be be ready to reduce it.

As the runway begins to fill up half your screen, drop gears, adjust speed up/down slightly to maintain air and not stall.

Keep calm.

As the runway comes up reduce throttle almost completely and raise nose slightly and imagine those 2 rear wheels landing gently on the tarmac (3 wheels with P39). Do not force her down, let her come down on her wheels. Totally drop throttle. Stop/start brakes to help rapidly slowdown if need be. Even fire guns to help slowdown.

I barely use the instruments, perhaps only momentarily.

After a while, you won`t even need to use the instruments unless in bad weather.

08-14-2007, 01:54 AM
Originally posted by GIAP.Shura:
I just made an instructional video of a landing circuit.

Here you go. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vD5WkusBMQ0)

Oh and this was heavily influenced by Waldo.Pepper's video on realistic landings, so I would like to thank him for helping me get my landings sorted out.

My, that was kind of you Shura. Thanks.

I made a Carrier one too.


08-14-2007, 02:21 AM
Pretty good video instructions, thanks. When I started landing practising with ME109G, it was very hard until I noticed that I haven't used landing flaps at all, when using flaps landing is little bit easier http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif