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View Full Version : I can't belive that there isn't any flyable carrierbased torpedobombers in the game



F16_txmx
11-03-2004, 07:02 AM
Don't get me wrong, i really like Pacific Fighters and think that it is a great addon to FB and AEP.

But... i am really curious to how one can release a pacific theatre based simulation with it's emphasis on carrier-based operations without a flyable, carrier-based, torpedo bomber for either USN or IJN (ex. Avenger and Kate) http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

Sure, they exsist as AI and maybe (or maybe not) become flyable in the coming or future patches but i'm still pussled.

Both the Avenger and the Kate were very significant aircrafts for their respective sides and were involved in many decisive battles, Coral Sea in may 1942 beeing one of them.

Sorry if this sounds negative but in my world this doesen't add up, patch or no patch.

VW-IceFire
11-03-2004, 07:09 AM
They were also more complex than the average aircraft or in the case of the Kate, there were few resources. I think thats changed now...we'll see.

I'll be miffed if they aren't flyable in the future but seeing as PF seems to sort of been released early...I'm willing to wait.

AWL_Spinner
11-03-2004, 07:21 AM
Yeah, it'll come. No Torpedo bombers was a kinda bizarre concession to an expeditious release date, as was the lack of single missions - however everyone wanted Pacific Fighters as soon as, didn't they. The patch(es) were always mentioned as being part of the purchased product.

All this stuff about people being turned off and giving up.... IL2 didn't have that many flyables when it was released and yet we're all still here, aren't we? You KNOW PF is going to evolve, mostly if not totally for free.

Cheers, Spinner.

JG53Frankyboy
11-03-2004, 07:33 AM
at CoralSea and Midway the main USN torpedobomber was still the Devastator http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

but the japanese used the B5N2 in all 4 carrier vs carrier battles in 1942 . 4 out of 5 in total of the whole WW2 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
the 5. was the Phillipines Sea 1944

Ruy Horta
11-03-2004, 08:28 AM
There is more source material available on the B6N than B5N, which is ironic. Lets keep our fingers crossed!

GT182
11-03-2004, 09:00 AM
There will be other torpedo bombers soon, and some very interesting additions in the future. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Philipscdrw
11-03-2004, 09:25 AM
I can't beleive it's not butter!

We got the game early. Would you prefer to have 2/3rds of PF now, and the rest later, or all of it later?

Now I'm going to change my avatar.

mortoma
11-03-2004, 09:28 AM
Give it time my boy, give it time. Patience is a virture......

LYNX.402Cdn
11-03-2004, 09:49 AM
MOAN MOAN MOAN http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Go on Jonas you tell them........ old Friend

Long time no see

Hope your well http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Grp/Cpt LYNX
#402Cdn

Tdavart
11-03-2004, 09:55 AM
I still don't buy the argument of not enough reference. It severely limits a sim about the air war in the Pacific to not have flyable torpedo bombers. If standards are going to be held so high that an important aircraft like the Devastator or Kate won't be modeled because we don't have any surviving examples, this game is going to be incomplete. Who is going to know if every bolt is in the correct place anyway? I would certainly prefer to have the plane.

Philipscdrw
11-03-2004, 10:16 AM
I repeat for emphasis: Would you prefer to get 2/3rds of the content NOW, i.e. the fighters and carriers and new maps and new features and new bug fixes, and get the remaining content later,

Or would you prefer to have NOTHING until everything is present and perfect?

If they waited until everything was ready and all the bugs were fixed before release then the game would NEVER hit the shops and you would be left with CF$.

What do you prefer then??

Stiglr
11-03-2004, 10:19 AM
I agree with Tdavart.

This same argument raged over the Pe-2 (by the way, where the hell IS that, anyway?)

It really seems stupid to exclude a plane that played a big role in the war from the sim because "there aren't enough references to have a 100% accurate cockpit", and then have flight models that aren't close to being 100% accurate... not to mention in the case of torp bombers, incorrect torpedo physics.

You can still make a reasonably accurate cockpit of a plane based on what you do have, and possibly use some imagination and artistic license (and knowledge of other planes by the same manufacturer or same country) to fill in grey areas. Who CARES if you're not exactly sure if the rudder pedal is shaped such a way, a button might be the wrong color, or that a handle for flaps might not be in the right place? What does that have to do with being able to actually fly the plane and operate it in the sim? Nothing, that's what.

More misplaced reliance on eye candy ueber alles.

Let's get some REAL torpedo modeling in the sim, then let's have a Kate and a Devastator, shall we?

Philipscdrw
11-03-2004, 10:22 AM
I agree that some details could be guessed without harming the accuracy of the sim. Oleg is a professional aircraft designer, I would trust him to use his own judgement and redesign missing details.

But AFAIK Oleg isn't happy to do that.

I thought that there were torpedo bombers coming along...

MoritzJGOne
11-03-2004, 10:28 AM
I will soon be sending scans to Oleg and Luthier's team of the various details on the Kate -3, Val model 22 (How it differs from the Model 11), D4Y Judy(inline and radial), Jill and Grace. These are from Japanses sources including control diagrams.

I also have pages to do the Cockpits on George, the Model 2 Oscar, the Tojo.

F16_txmx
11-03-2004, 02:52 PM
Would I rather have 2/3 now and the rest later or would i rather wait some more to get a more "complete" package? Well if "the rest" is meaning one carrier-based torpedo bomber of any type for each side then the answer is: hell yeah, I would rather have waited.

Lynx you old do..friend http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Good to "see" you - all well here and i hope the same goes for you! You guys still in the virtual skies with the rest of us?

aminx
11-03-2004, 04:32 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by MoritzJGOne:
I will soon be sending scans to Oleg and Luthier's team of the various details on the Kate -3, Val model 22 (How it differs from the Model 11), D4Y Judy(inline and radial), Jill and Grace. These are from Japanses sources including control diagrams.

I also have pages to do the Cockpits on George, the Model 2 Oscar, the Tojo. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

greetings,
Great job and dedication,lets hope they act on it.I think by now they must have realised how important it is to get them in as soon as possible.You must have received some of these:

http://www.j-aircraft.com/main/newkits/b5nbk.htm
aminx

Reaves_42
11-03-2004, 04:58 PM
As far as i'm concerned, I am happy to wait for patches with new planes. I'd rather play PF how it is then wait months for a release that keeps being delayed. Look at the history of Il-2... You will get the torpedo bombers you want, it's been out less than a month and already a patch with new flyable a/c is on it's way.

And as for those who say they'd rather wait.... Unless you have dial-up, i'm sorry but I don't understand how you could say such a stupid thing. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

brasil66
11-03-2004, 04:59 PM
"I would rather have waited."

Do you realize what a stupid thing to say that it? Guess what? YOU CAN WAIT! Dont buy the game now. Hang on to your money until the patch comes out (Friday?) or maybe just wait until some other patch is released to possibly address something you'll find to whine about in the 1st patch.
Better yet...dont buy the game at all, you jerk. GO design your own own flight sim with all the aircraft you demand/desire. Imagine that! No waiting and it will be FREE!

You're a freakin genius, man. Bet you voted for Bush too.

Zeus-cat
11-03-2004, 05:54 PM
My two cents. I grabbed it the first day it was on the shelf in my area. I'm glad I got it. It was worth the $40 I paid for it. However, it is missing some important stuff. No US battleships in a game that puts Pearl Harbor in a prominent place? No carrier based torpedo bombers? Entire AI flights that crash into the hills? Face the facts, this game wasn't ready to be released. Us die-hard fans should be concerned. The reviews are a little harsh, but PF is not at the level it should be at. The IL-2 series is mature; PF should be too.

If I had never seen IL-2, FB or AEP, I would not have bought the game based on the reviews. These reviews will hurt. People who may have bought the game, will think twice looking at these reviews. Low sales will diminsh the amount of time and money that Oleg will spend on upgrades.

Zeus-cat

uhoh7
11-03-2004, 06:09 PM
we are desperate for kate and avenger

i say we post and post till we hear from 1c.

BTW i hear luthier and his family are ill

best wishes to them

A.K.Davis
11-03-2004, 06:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by uhoh7:
we are desperate for kate and avenger

i say we post and post till we hear from 1c.

BTW i hear luthier and his family are ill

best wishes to them <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

that would be rather assanine...

aminx
11-03-2004, 11:34 PM
Here is my sig from when the forum opened in january and my first question to the dev team was wether
DEVASTATOR
KATE
AVENGER
would be in the sim and flyable?guess if i ever got any form of reply except this one "ARE YOU GOING TO KEEP REPEATING THE SAME QUESTION?!!!!"
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v76/aminx/77.jpg
aminx

Snootles
11-03-2004, 11:57 PM
My prognosis on your signature planes:

Ki-27 "Nate": It will happen.
TBF/TBM Avenger: Almost a certainty.
B5N "Kate": I think it is on its way.
TBD Devastator: Not very likely.

F16_txmx
11-04-2004, 01:28 AM
I post my opinion in, what i feel, a mature way with no name callning or other stuff and what answers do i get? This:

- Do you realize what a stupid thing to say that it?
- Better yet...dont buy the game at all, you jerk.
- You're a freakin genius, man. Bet you voted for Bush too.

It's really sad http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif And btw, i'm Swedish and don't really care about the American election.

People who say that i am stupid because i could have waited abit longer for the released game to incorporate a few more planes etc don't really understand my reasons behind this.

I waited, as many of you, very eagerly for Pacific Fighters and made plans for missions and campaigns for our dedicated server, F16_Dedicated, as many of you know. As soon as the game became available i got me a copy only to be somewhat dissapointed as i have described in my earlier postings. Many of the missions and scenarios that i had dreamed about fell due to the fact that the torpedo bombers were missing as flyables.

I know that there is a patch coming and I sure, as you, look forward to it. But as the game is now i just makes me frustated when i sit building missions etc.

So why did i buy the game, why not wait? Well for startes I thought that the torpedo bombers were flyable among a few other things. The second reason was to support Oleg and his team in the best way i could, i.e by bying the game.

If my voicing of my opinion has in any way offended people on this board I am truley sorry.

Update:
One good example of a similar issue is that one of Silent Hunter III (www.silent-hunteriii.com (http://www.silent-hunteriii.com)) which had it's release date pushed back abit. The reason? Well the community asked for a truley dynamic campaign (a really important thing for subsims). The sim didnt have one planned but the developers listended to the community and since they didn't want the potential buyers to be dissapointed with the game from the start they elected to incorporate it although it meant pushing the release date back.

AFJ_Locust
11-04-2004, 01:46 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
I can't beleive it's not butter!

We got the game early. Would you prefer to have 2/3rds of PF now, and the rest later, or all of it later?

Now I'm going to change my avatar. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif

Shangko
11-04-2004, 04:45 AM
No resources for Kate?

and... for B-25 bomber yes resources?

bombsight of B-25 have Lofte 3D of He-111?

XDDDD

LYNX.402Cdn
11-04-2004, 07:14 AM
No matter what M8 you always get a hand full of A**holes who just come in here to spoil it for the rest of us http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Any Swedish or not DID YOU VOTE BUSH http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

Ian

Stuntie
11-04-2004, 08:24 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Philipscdrw:
I repeat for emphasis: Would you prefer to get 2/3rds of the content NOW, i.e. the fighters and carriers and new maps and new features and new bug fixes, and get the remaining content later,

Or would you prefer to have NOTHING until everything is present and perfect?

If they waited until everything was ready and all the bugs were fixed before release then the game would NEVER hit the shops and you would be left with CF$.

What do you prefer then?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I wanted a product that has all the major componnets in place - fighters dive bombers and torpedo planes.

As for waiting till it's perfect.
There is a whole world of difference between the perfection you suggest we want and having a major component missing. Early - fine, but not early at all costs.

People have raised legitimate concerns over the lack of these planes and all some people can do is tell them that if it was the likes of them that the game would never have been released. Get real!

We all would like things early, but to release a sim without a major component just to please the bean counters is an embarsement.

And it's the bean counters that forced the release. Fan pressure would not have forced them to release the sim without such a vital componenent.

We can't even fight some of the most important battles such as the Coral Sea or Midway as we don't even have an AI Devastator yet.

We have Beaufighters, and A26's both minor players compared to the Avenger and Devastator.
But time was found to add them. So thats a bunch of flyable twin engined medium bombers. But no Torpedo bombers.

Carrier based Torpedo planes were an integral part of the Pacific war. You cannot have a true pacific war sim without them. IMHO There should have been at least one in the initial release, even if it mean't delaying one or more of the other myriad of fighters versions or medium bombers we got in the release till the patch.
The cut off date was known well in advance, so some effort should have been put into rounding off the package and adding major aspects e.g. some of the ships rather than finishing off yet another sub version or bit player.

Stuntie
11-04-2004, 08:32 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brasil66:
"I would rather have waited."

Do you realize what a stupid thing to say that it? Guess what? YOU CAN WAIT! Dont buy the game now. Hang on to your money until the patch comes out (Friday?) or maybe just wait until some other patch is released to possibly address something you'll find to whine about in the 1st patch.
Better yet...dont buy the game at all, you jerk. GO design your own own flight sim with all the aircraft you demand/desire. Imagine that! No waiting and it will be FREE!

You're a freakin genius, man. Bet you voted for Bush too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very abusive and childish response to legitimate concerns.

I suggest you re-read the forum etiqutte rules.