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View Full Version : Italian machineguns ROF, youtube video of Macchi C.202 in action...



Rickustyit
10-10-2007, 04:34 AM
Hi everybody,

I happened to see a video on youtube about a war mission of the Macchi C.202 in North Africa in 1942. A guncamera follows the strafing action of the planes. It's quite interesting, even if it has a low level of quality.

And not many people watched it.

Here is the LINK (http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=ZiFgHdqo4wk) .

Now, it seems to me that in reality, the rate of fire of the Breda SAFAT 12,7mm guns on the C.202 was better than what we have in the game.
Also,even the ballistic and muzzle velocity seems much better.

I mostly fly the Macchi C.200 on online servers, so I am used to fire with those pea shooters.

What do you think? Is it a personal impression or maybe the guns are wrongly modeled in the game?

Cheers,
Rick

JG53Frankyboy
10-10-2007, 10:46 AM
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Hangar/8217/fgun/fgun-pe.html

in gem the 12,7mm SAFAT has in the Mc200 350rpg, firing time is 40sec . means the SAFAT has 525rpm.
compared to the above linked table with 700rpm it is slow. but , keep in mind in game the guuns are synchronysized , and this was lawasy reducing the rpm of a gun.

so to my belive the 525rpm are ok.

their hitting power, well, thats another thing http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

PBNA-Boosher
10-10-2007, 08:57 PM
Their hitting power is good... if you're a precise shooter. My best shots with them are inwards of 100 meters or closer. You have plenty of ammo with them, that's for sure. If you aim for the weak parts of planes a few good bursts are all you need. I'll agree that they're not the most accurate guns in the game, but with a little practice they can be devastating.

Wildnoob
10-13-2007, 08:11 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv7P4eJ0V-E

at end of this video whe have a Italian figther firing it's guns at wat I think is a Hurricane.

I don't know witch plane are, but looks like was a Breda Safat heavy MG (maybe a Fiat G-50).

very similar to the one we have in the sim.

Enforcer572005
10-15-2007, 09:15 PM
The Italian SAFATs were lousy weapons. Not as hard hitting or ROF as the Browning M2 or even the German 13mm. I think it's probably fairly realistic.

Wepps
10-16-2007, 07:37 AM
Is it me, or are they all taking off at the same time?

Must save an hour trying to catch up to the leader! :P

Lupo
11-02-2007, 09:49 AM
"The Italian SAFATs were lousy weapons. Not as hard hitting or ROF as the Browning M2 or even the German 13mm. I think it's probably fairly realistic."

sorry to disapoint you, but that's only due too poor information on "minor" nations.

in fact 12.7mm SAFATs were not machinguns like the .50 Browning or the german 13mm, they were small guns, thus reduced RoF but much better hitting power.

they didn't fire solid bullets like american counterparts, they fire high explosive ammonution.

so, they're modelled terribly in the game, as usual, accurate historical research is hardly considered important by game developers, once the big boys got the cool stuff, they're done it would cost too much time and money to get better documentation on less famous equipment.


then again, if you say that just two 12.7mm guns was not what you'd like to have on a fighter, especially when you're trying to bring down a bomber, well I could only agree with you.

SIDE NOTE: can anyone tell me if a editor exists so I can change the settings of Macchi palnes? they were full of problems as they were, no need to add additional faults.

ImpStarDuece
11-03-2007, 02:18 AM
Originally posted by Lupo:
"The Italian SAFATs were lousy weapons. Not as hard hitting or ROF as the Browning M2 or even the German 13mm. I think it's probably fairly realistic."

sorry to disapoint you, but that's only due too poor information on "minor" nations.

in fact 12.7mm SAFATs were not machinguns like the .50 Browning or the german 13mm, they were small guns, thus reduced RoF but much better hitting power.

they didn't fire solid bullets like american counterparts, they fire high explosive ammonution.

so, they're modelled terribly in the game, as usual, accurate historical research is hardly considered important by game developers, once the big boys got the cool stuff, they're done it would cost too much time and money to get better documentation on less famous equipment.



Compared to the US M2 Browing the SAFAT fires a lighter and shorter shell at lower velocity and marginally lower rate of fire. All of this from a gun that weighs just as much.

The vaunted HE shell of the SAFAT was originally designed to combat fabric skinned aircraft, and often failed to fuse properly against metal skinned aircraft. During the battles over Malta, many Spitfires were struck by Italian 12.7 mm fire, but many of the rounds failed to explode.

The SAFAT shell also contained less weight of HE than the M2 Browning shell did of incendiary material.

Compared to the German MG131 the SAFAT fired a marginally lighter shell, at a slightly higher (~40 m/sec) velocity but at a significantly lower rate of fire (around 200 rpm less). Furthermore, the German HE shell in the 13mm had a higher HE content (around 1.2 grams compared to 0.7 grams) and was designed to work against metal skinned aircraft. The MG131 was also about 15 kg lighter when installed.

Armament historians asses the MG131 to be about 1/3rd more effective than the SAFAT and the M2 as about 2/3rds more effective. Meaning that three MG131s equals four SAFATs and that three M2s equals about five SAFATs

Bigha_86
11-03-2007, 11:42 AM
As Lupo said, there are poor info about "minor" nations. For exemple in the link at the beginning of the topic, in the end of the movie they celebrate the 100th victory: with 6 spitfires in the last mission. is it possible in il2 to kill a spitfire with a mc202?? I don't know u, but for me it's not so easy. Spitfire is soooooo powerfull comparing to italian airplanes. or maybe italian one are so badmade... btw, it's not as it was...

Bigha_86
11-03-2007, 11:55 AM
Check this out... there are 3 nice airbattles
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCbLEhQ1Lo

Lupo
11-06-2007, 12:20 PM
don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the SAFAT should be overwhelmingly powerfull, but as you can clearly see in the movies, shots did actually explode when they hit.

(what you say about the spit is true, I know they were less affective against them, but I also know that many italian planes got back home in the same way the spits did, so...)

as far as I remeber italian pilots said that a 1 second burst was much more than enough to cutt off a wing from a hurrycane, in the game it took me at least 2-3 seconds bursts to get the same result (not counting missing hits, I shot at a non maneouvering hurrycane from very close distance, so I think they're underpowered)

about the .50 browning, I also know the americans hardly ever carried explosive ammo, relying mostly on armour piercing.

it's also known that both parts used simple steel bullets when short on better ammo, but I don't think this is a good reason to decrease someone's firepower.

polak5
11-06-2007, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by Bigha_86:
Check this out... there are 3 nice airbattles
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCbLEhQ1Lo

Nice vid, that guy did a really good job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

joeap
11-06-2007, 02:35 PM
Originally posted by polak5:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bigha_86:
Check this out... there are 3 nice airbattles
http://it.youtube.com/watch?v=3zCbLEhQ1Lo

Nice vid, that guy did a really good job. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good grief, well better not say anything. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

joeap
11-06-2007, 02:37 PM
..as to the subject of the thread well i guess for BoB-SOW better copy paste all guns so we all have the same and none is worse than any other. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif