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View Full Version : Next week I will go out and buy a new HOTAS + Pedals any advice would be nice



XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 07:32 PM
Next week or maybe tomorrow I will go out to a shop and buy a new HOTAS + Pedals any advice would be nice

1. My main choice
- Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar (USB) 329 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 499 euro

2. The second option
- CH Products Fighterstick (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Throttle (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 560 euro

3. The third is not a real option but I thought I would mission it anyway
- Saitek X45 HOTAS (USB) 129 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 299 euro

4. The forth is I think not an option in anyway or is it?
- MS$ Force Feedback 2 (USB) 50 euro
- CH Products Pro Throttle (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 415 euro

Now I have one question and one dilemma, the question is simple should
I go for option one or for option two, the dilemma is will I miss the FFB
of my current warn out Logitech 3D FFB joystick.

One more question I spotted some new Pedals on the NET called the
Simped F16+ Vario Pro (USB) are these any good and should I buy then instead
of the CH Products Pro Pedals (USB)


Flight Sims Forever!
http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-bf109.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 07:32 PM
Next week or maybe tomorrow I will go out to a shop and buy a new HOTAS + Pedals any advice would be nice

1. My main choice
- Thrustmaster HOTAS Cougar (USB) 329 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 499 euro

2. The second option
- CH Products Fighterstick (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Throttle (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 560 euro

3. The third is not a real option but I thought I would mission it anyway
- Saitek X45 HOTAS (USB) 129 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 299 euro

4. The forth is I think not an option in anyway or is it?
- MS$ Force Feedback 2 (USB) 50 euro
- CH Products Pro Throttle (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 415 euro

Now I have one question and one dilemma, the question is simple should
I go for option one or for option two, the dilemma is will I miss the FFB
of my current warn out Logitech 3D FFB joystick.

One more question I spotted some new Pedals on the NET called the
Simped F16+ Vario Pro (USB) are these any good and should I buy then instead
of the CH Products Pro Pedals (USB)


Flight Sims Forever!
http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-bf109.jpg

Buzz_25th
10-17-2003, 07:41 PM
I've had both of your number 1 and 2 setups. The Cougar is a better stick, but only if your willing to spend more money to modify it. It takes another 400-500 dollars to get it perfect.

I'm using number 2 right now, and i'm very happy with it. It doesn't need any mods at all. Take it out of the box, and use it.

CH pedals are fine to me. The Simped are better I suppose. I never tried them.

Can't answer the FF question. Never tried one.

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XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 08:57 PM
I would suggest you go with option 3 and modify it to include a MSFFB stick as well. It is a nice setup...the FFB is nice and it does IMO add to the realism as you get sensory data back from your plane. With the money you save from the CH stuff you can do it. The X45 is a good inexpensive stick IMO and they have excellent support. I turn off the gun FB on my FFB stick and just use the flight info but the guns are ok too. The X45 throttle I use as a button bay. I nevertouch my keyboard when in flight. Works for me.

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Buzz_25th
10-17-2003, 09:07 PM
I just looked at your prices. It's not right. The CH setup is cheaper than the Cougar. Average price in USA.

Cougar......$260
CH pedals....$99
Total.......$359


CH Fighterstick...$99
CH Pro Throttle...$99
Pro Pedals........$99
Total.............$297



Of course the prices will be different in your part of the world, but they should be in the same preportion.

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25th_Buzz
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XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:13 PM
I have CH-Pro Pedals & they are worth every dime. They will last you a life time too.

S!

Good Luck

Lt.Goethman
www.KG54.net (http://www.KG54.net)

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:20 PM
Avoid the X45. The upper gimbals are too sloppy and get worse with age.

I can't speak for the other sticks. The MS sticks that i've owned don't seem to have a lot of slop around the center, so they may be worth considering.

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XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:21 PM
Hi Dutch,
I have option 2 but with the combatstick568 USB, its a great setup.I have had it for about 6 weeks now and would never go back to just a joystick.
the whole setup was cheaper to order it from the USA ($680 NZD)than from my country(N.Z) $920 NZD and it only took 3 days!!!!.
Here a link for the CH products in the USA were i got my CH products from it all in USD but they do have a currency convertor.
The Simped pedals you mentioned are made in germany are are about 150 Euro, they are very good from what i have heard



http://www.provantage.com/buy-110CHPU-ch-shopping.htm



Cheers Kiwiflyer

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 09:23 PM
10+ years with CH controllers, have't let me down yet.

I wouldn't buy a Cougar unless I had the money to mod it.


Liege-Killer

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XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 10:38 PM
CH all the way!!
I have the Fighterstick and the pedels, and they are an absoloute charm. more control than you can ever imagine. If you are a former "twisty stick owner" you have a lot of work ahead of you relearning the new set-up.
I thought I had big hands but once you grab a hold of that CH stick it is HUGE. But it is a rock-solid investment for the money.

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 10:42 PM
Not having a lot of dosh to spend I've ended up with option 3, X45 and CH Pro pedals. No complaints at all, though of course I've not tried any of the others.
Cheers!

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XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 10:48 PM
I've been running the CH Pro Pedals and CH Virtual Pilot Pro Flight Yoke for about 3 years. CH makes solid gear.

Dennis

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 11:05 PM
I too am looking for a new joystick setup. My current stick is an old Thrustmaster FCS Mk. II, which I have used for a long time but is starting to fall appart on me. I found this thread, and checked out some of the products, which look great. I just have a couple questions...

1. A couple people mentioned the Thrustmaster Cougar HOTAS setup, but said that it needs several mods to be really good. What exactly are these, and where could I get info about them to see if that is something I would want to do?

2. How is the feel of the CH Fighterstick and/or Combatstick? I had a CH Flightstick once upon a time (probably still around), which I really liked for a while, but after a year or two it became very loose - very little resistance.

I was looking at getting something with a twist-axis, but now I'm thinking I would prefer foot pedals. Any comments about twisty axis controllers (never used one before)?

Thanks for any comments or additional insight people might have (I've been looking for a site with decent reviews of controllers, but haven't really found any - let me know if you know of one).

Thanks.

Buzz_25th
10-17-2003, 11:17 PM
The Cougar is very stiff with flat spots when you changes from one axis to another. The mods redesign the gimbal to eliminate this. It also has very poor pots, so changing to optical sensors is another mod. Some of the switches don't lign up right, so they need to be modified some. The throttle is sticky, but that's not too hard to fix.

Neither the Cougar or CH have twisty rudders. I think pedals are much better anyway.

The CH sticks have a light feel to them. I like that myself. I've had mine for two years, and the pots are still jitter free, and there is no slop to it at all. It did have a little play in it when it was new, but it was a simple fix with a couple of pieces of tape. It can be done from the outside, and took me one minute to do. I haven't touched it since.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
25th_Buzz
<center>
http://www.elknet.pl/acestory/foto1/anderson3.jpg

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 11:18 PM
Hi

Im running with a Couger & CH gameport pedles. the advantage of this is the pedles plug into the Couger & you can tweak the axis curves. The problem the couger has is the bearings wear & pot spiking. There have been some very good but expensve mod to get round this. These have been done by some talented users. Info on this can be found at http://cougar.frugalsworld.com

I've got about 3-4 mm of free play at the top of my stick, I've got pot spikes but these don't notice in game. The program ability of the couger is exeptional, any key combination can be programed. IL2 dosen't realy need that many keys programed compaired to say Falcon 4, the couger handles both prety well.

MB

XyZspineZyX
10-17-2003, 11:24 PM
I've got option #4. lol. It works great. FFB takes getting used to but I wouldn't feel right anymores without it. Wore out my first sidewinder after two years of abuse flying the F4U-1A and drinking too much beer at same time. Now I don't do either so maybe this one will last longer.

Yesterday:"I think I can....
Today:"I thought I could....

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:33 AM
Here ya go. Just add the Pro pedals and VOILA!

http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=fr_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yxeqq

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XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:53 AM
I have the full CH Products setup and love it, works great right out of the box. No mods required.



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T_O_A_D
10-18-2003, 09:03 AM
I got the #3 and have had no problems both units are right at 1 year old. So they might just break tommorrow /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

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Tully__
10-18-2003, 09:17 AM
You'll probably miss FFB for a bit, but you'll adapt.

I'd go option 2 or 3.

The simped pedals have as good or better rep as the CH ones.

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 09:39 AM
I have CH set up and love it..
Combat Stick
Pro Throttle
Pro Pedds

Do not load the software off the disc. Get the CH control manager from website. Load it before you connect the devices. Connect devices one at a time and go thru wizzard. and Calibrate them. The tech support is A number one.... you can call em and they can walk you thru any fix....trust me...hehehehehehe. I would not trade em for the world.../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

michapma
10-18-2003, 10:09 AM
I have setup 1 and I can only tell you I'm quite happy with it. I haven't tried any of the others. I am not sure what kind of standards Buzz is on about, I haven't done anything to my Cougar yet (including flashing it) and I'm more than happy, although I'm quite sure I'm not using it to its full potential. There are rudder pedals from Thrustmaster that you can get to attach to the Cougar; I would guess there are some here who can tell you more.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=fr_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 10:28 AM
Thnx for all the advice so fare, but now I have become very unsure
to go for option one with the HOTAS Cougar or option two all CH Products,
this is because of all the things I read about the need for spending
another 300 to 400 euros on modifying the HOTAS Cougar is this
modifying really necessary for a device that costs about 350 euros?

One more question I read that the CH Products Fighter stick has a
light feeling to it, how does this compare to the very stiff feeling
things I read about the HOTAS Cougar?

Flight Sims Forever!
http://home.planet.nl/~elzer033/images/dutch-bf109.jpg

michapma
10-18-2003, 10:39 AM
Pay careful attention to Buzz's remark about spending extra to make it "perfect," whatever he means by that. I haven't spent any extra money on mine, and have used it successfully for two months so far. It was a worthwhile investment for me, and that without add-ons. But let Buzz tell you what he meant.

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=fr_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 12:37 PM
He Buzz why is it I need to spend another 400-500 dollars to get the
HOTAS Cougar perfect

I mean that is a lot of money to spend on this HOTAS Cougar as an
extra, as this device already costs 350 euros


Flight Sims Forever!
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Tully__
10-18-2003, 03:43 PM
All you ever wanted to know about Cougar mods and what benefits they offer can be found at the Frugals World forums. In particular, see this thread: http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=ae6188b5ba14bd2a431664f59589b560&threadid=35029

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Salut
Tully

XyZspineZyX
10-18-2003, 04:40 PM
Hi Tully,

I did try to read all the things from the first post in
the thread from which you did send the link, but I can't
simply understand why the hell al this tweaking at a big
price of around 400 euros on a product that already costs
350 euros is really necessary to simply make it work?

So do you think I should go for option two that would
simply let me use it right out of the box?

Option two was
- CH Products Fighterstick (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Throttle (USB) 195 euro
- CH Products Pro Pedals (USB) 170 euro
Total 560 euro

By the way are the sliders on the CH Pro Throttle for trim?


Flight Sims Forever!
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