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michapma
03-09-2003, 10:47 PM
Well folks, Forgotten Battles has indeed arrived, and it should for me soon as well. That means that, in addition to but not at the cost of my other running projects, it is time to fashion a home-made throttle quadrant! In the interest of others who might like to do the same thing but aren't sure they'd know how to do it, I'm going to chronicle my efforts in this thread, much in the spirit of Burnin's cockpit. I plan to go into as much detail as necessary and answer questions as well as I can, updating with photographs as it progresses. Maybe someone will want to build one along with me, who knows? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

I'll be taking the article at http://www.simpits.org/articles/throttle_quad/throtquad.html as my guide. However, I'm going for something more like what's in the P-39 and P-40 cockpits, so I will deviate from that plan as necessary. I also hope to add the functionality of a press-button for activating the microphone for programs like Roger Wilco on the throttle lever, so that I don't have to use voice activation, but I'm not too sure about it so this will come last.

I took the first steps this Saturday, stupidly convincing my wife to come with me to the hardware store while on a trip to her home town. Let's just say there was some miscommunication and I should have been more patient. That's a bad start and I don't recommend it. Anyway, I got most of the parts I thought I would need:

<ul>
<LI>brackets to mount the potentiometers
<LI>a strip of aluminum to cut up for the levers
<LI>balls of wood for grip on the ends of the levers
<LI>wood for the base and sides of the unit
<LI>strips of rubber to give mechanical resistance to the levers, so that they don't fall (I might work in a kind of friction on the axis of the potentiometers)
<LI>various nails and screws appropriate to the brackets and wood thickness
[/list]

Stay tuned for the next update. This may take a couple of weeks or a couple of months, depending on how I distribute my time...

Cheers,
Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

michapma
03-09-2003, 10:47 PM
Well folks, Forgotten Battles has indeed arrived, and it should for me soon as well. That means that, in addition to but not at the cost of my other running projects, it is time to fashion a home-made throttle quadrant! In the interest of others who might like to do the same thing but aren't sure they'd know how to do it, I'm going to chronicle my efforts in this thread, much in the spirit of Burnin's cockpit. I plan to go into as much detail as necessary and answer questions as well as I can, updating with photographs as it progresses. Maybe someone will want to build one along with me, who knows? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

I'll be taking the article at http://www.simpits.org/articles/throttle_quad/throtquad.html as my guide. However, I'm going for something more like what's in the P-39 and P-40 cockpits, so I will deviate from that plan as necessary. I also hope to add the functionality of a press-button for activating the microphone for programs like Roger Wilco on the throttle lever, so that I don't have to use voice activation, but I'm not too sure about it so this will come last.

I took the first steps this Saturday, stupidly convincing my wife to come with me to the hardware store while on a trip to her home town. Let's just say there was some miscommunication and I should have been more patient. That's a bad start and I don't recommend it. Anyway, I got most of the parts I thought I would need:

<ul>
<LI>brackets to mount the potentiometers
<LI>a strip of aluminum to cut up for the levers
<LI>balls of wood for grip on the ends of the levers
<LI>wood for the base and sides of the unit
<LI>strips of rubber to give mechanical resistance to the levers, so that they don't fall (I might work in a kind of friction on the axis of the potentiometers)
<LI>various nails and screws appropriate to the brackets and wood thickness
[/list]

Stay tuned for the next update. This may take a couple of weeks or a couple of months, depending on how I distribute my time...

Cheers,
Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-09-2003, 11:36 PM
im making one to, except im using a old joystick, just separating the axis's and putting levers on them, all in a new box

XyZspineZyX
03-10-2003, 01:23 AM
Have you guys looked here:

http://www.blarg.net/~Pete/throttles/throttles.htm

Will be looking forward to your updates!

<img src=http://www.famoustexans.com/images/claireleechennault.gif>

michapma
03-10-2003, 07:08 PM
Yes, I had seen that article, and was looking for it, too. Could prove useful, thanks. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-10-2003, 07:27 PM
http://home.att.net/~stickworks/

XyZspineZyX
03-10-2003, 07:42 PM
Far too technical for me...
Anyone willing to make one for me for a fee? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


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XyZspineZyX
03-10-2003, 11:17 PM
Please keep us informed. I personally like the LEGO controller. I may run to Radio Shack to get some Pots and have some fun.

How does the computer know what to do with all these inputs? Does FB give you control of settings? or do you need another program?

Thanks

michapma
03-11-2003, 01:02 PM
marmusman,

That's covered at least in part in the article I referenced. I'll be finding out a lot more, but my idea is that when you plug it into the 15-pin connector and test it as a new device under Game controllers in Windows.

Extreme_one,

It would be much cheaper to buy a throttle quadrant than to pay somebody to make it for you...

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-11-2003, 01:55 PM
exactly what I was looking for! was thinking of using my old techniqe lego for the cogs and levers etc. but was unsure of the wiring. Thanks for this post.

XyZspineZyX
03-11-2003, 02:54 PM
This very ineteresting. Does anyone know whether its possible somehow to use the pedals of a MS steering wheel & pedals set and convert the pedals for use as rudder pedals in a flight sim? Basically, I will need a wiring diagram for the correct connection of the wires to the 15 pin plug.

Also, can one use two game ports simultateously, one for the joystick and one for the pedals, or will you have to use one USB port and one game port?

michapma
03-11-2003, 03:21 PM
RedShift1 has already gone over my head. I'm aware of these kinds of issues but don't have answers. Yes, I have heard of people using steering pedals as flight-sim pedals, but don't know details of the setup. I could only suggest a forum or Internet search.

As for using two game ports simultaneously, I'm not sure I understand the issue. Is there normally a conflict? Am I allowed to answer your questions with questions?

As far as the 15-pin plug goes, it is likely to be similar to the one in my reference article ( http://www.simpits.org/articles/lego_thr/lego%20quadrant.htm):

http://www.simpits.org/articles/throttle_quad/throtquad_files/image008.jpg



You could also refer to this one, which also comes from simpits.org:

http://www.simpits.org/articles/lego_thr/throt6.jpg

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 01:16 AM
alright, using the old stick didnt work so well, it was a microsoft sidewinder 3d pro, so i dont recomend trying to make one out of that stick

gonna try it with pots and stuff this time

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 01:32 AM
funny you should start this thread today as i just finished my throttle moments ago. i took apart my x-45 and made a whole left columb complete with elevator, rudder and aileron trim, a p-40 throttle with power (complete with comms button), mix and prop pitch. and a bunch of buttons. if u use the x-45 you have 6 axises to play with, a usb connection, and programming software. i wouldnt reccomend doing this if your not comfortable with breadboards and things. while you dont have to do much but extend wires you do have to handle them a lot and they are fragile. the wires are very thin and just held on by a dab of solder.

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 02:30 AM
Redshift1,

I found this link, not sure if it was one of the original links from Mike or if I found it playing around. The guy built pedals from 2 x 4 lumber and string. Maybe you could rig something from this article.

http://www.flightsim.com/cgi/kds?$=main/howto/rudtoe.htm

Good Luck

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 04:30 AM
Sounds like the ultimate. Any pics?

PBS_DangerMouse wrote:
- funny you should start this thread today as i just
- finished my throttle moments ago. i took apart my
- x-45 and made a whole left columb complete with
- elevator, rudder and aileron trim, a p-40 throttle
- with power (complete with comms button), mix and
- prop pitch. and a bunch of buttons. if u use the
- x-45 you have 6 axises to play with, a usb
- connection, and programming software. i wouldnt
- reccomend doing this if your not comfortable with
- breadboards and things. while you dont have to do
- much but extend wires you do have to handle them a
- lot and they are fragile. the wires are very thin
- and just held on by a dab of solder.
-
-
-



<img src=http://www.enter.net/~rocketeer/p39drwng.jpg>

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 06:02 AM
shouldnt the potentiometers give you enough friction to keep it from falling? sounds like a great idea though

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 08:36 AM
I posted this the other day but if it will help others then here it is again /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

And yes the handles are huge but I like it that way Becuase this may end up in a cockpit, plus I tend to brake things easy /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

But i wish I had seen some of the other ones people had made before i started mine It would have been much easier.


http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/quadrant/pourshot/00-page.htm

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 11:36 AM
michapma wrote:
- Well folks, Forgotten Battles has indeed arrived,
- and it should for me soon as well. That means that,
- in addition to but not at the cost of my other
- running projects, it is time to fashion a home-made
- throttle quadrant!

I'm doing something similar, but using sliders rather
than a quadrant. Hopefully it will be of sufficiently
low height so I can then secure it to my keyboard
drawer and slide the whole thing into my desk. I am
using 45mm throw (when they arrive - on back order)
100k linear pots, plus some subminature push-to-make
switches.

I am debating whether to also make my own rudder pedals
(I have all the parts) or try to source some analogue
ones. (Making my own has advantages - if they work!)

To add to this I have a gameport to USB convertor (very
useful!)

I'm constructing my system out of wood (easier to work
with) apart from some tough plastic (weatherstrip) I
had left over, as that is thin enough to mount the
subminature switches.

My main concern is getting a short in the 5v supply
and blowing my PC up!

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 12:00 PM
Mike -

Some source material that may be an inspiration:

http://www.throttlequadrants.com/

This would be a good generic western style / vintage.

http://www.mason-electric.com/

Modern stuff, browse to the online catalogue where there are .pdf drawings (with dimensions) of all types of grip, throttle etc.

Cheers, Ham



S T U R M O V I K - T E C H N I K A (http://www.il2center.com/technika/)</p>

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michapma
03-12-2003, 12:20 PM
Deathsledge,

The mechanical resistance of the potentiometers is a concern, but only a small concern. I'm going to address this in more detail later. Of far greater concern are the mechanical stresses the lever places on the pot, because they're only so sturdy.


Pourshot,

Now that is a good-looking project. Wow, good work! I might have to alter my plan somewhat to include the bevel gears. Even after looking at the lego site with bevel gears I didn't catch on to the idea of using them for turning the potentiometers. This prevents having to connect the levers directly to the potiometer axes, and makes it possible to add a friction knob to tighten or loosen tension on the controls (or even lock in place, practical in aircraft). It also ought to make it much easier to have the handles closer together without having to bend them.


Dangermouse has a good idea too, but I don't have a spare joystick with 6 axes lying around. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif


Ham,

Thanks for the links. The throttlequadrant.com site is the one I was looking for to show someone about what it might look like. I just can't make out why they want $550 for that.

Now for an update...

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

michapma
03-12-2003, 01:13 PM
AaronGT, you can test the controls individually for resistance before plugging them into the computer. Test them directly from the 15-pin socket...


My update is quite small, but it's best when each step is small, makes it easier to follow, right?

One important point is that I'm only going to be rotating my handles through a small fraction of their rotational range, which is about 270&deg;. I plan to make it so I can rotate them about 60&deg;. Since the computer expects the potentiometers to give about 100k&Omega;, that means that I need about 60/270 = 22% of the full resistance to be 100k&Omega;, so the full resistance should be about 100k&Omega;/0.22 = 450k&Omega;. The standard value for potiometers in this range is 470k&Omega;. Close enough!

Of course, if I implement bevel gears, I can easily obtain the full range of movement for the potentiometers, and in fact would have to design it so that they aren't overstressed.

The elbow brackets I bought to hold the potentiometers (pots, since I didn't say that before) may or may not do the trick. I'd need something else for bevel gears, but am still undecided between bevel gears and directly attaching the levers to the pots. (See pourshot's webpage and compare to my reference page: http://www.simpits.org/articles/throttle_quad/throtquad.html) The problem is that you really ought to know in advance what you need, or else you might buy the wrong stuff. I don't mind so much, but it is slightly annoying.

I guess I should fess up and admit that I have fantastic resources to do this project. This is one of the reasons I thought I might organize a thread about it. I am doing work at a university and our department has its own machine shop and experienced technicians. These guys have great ideas and know how this kind of stuff works, and are helpful in getting parts. In any case here are the potentiometers and a few other parts:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/parts1.jpg

The potentiometer with the metal axis is 470k&Omega; and the other 100k&Omega;. Their axes can be shortened. The metal objects might be useful for attaching the lever to the pot axis if I don't use bevel gears. The knob on the left is what I plan to use for trim; I got it before lunch today just by asking around at the machine shop, but I don't think such old things are too hard to find. I'm considering mounting it on the side of the quadrant for trim. The piece of aluminum could be useful for mounting, but also to install a spring-loaded ball that bumps a hole when the knob is centered, so I can have a reference (or several references by making more than one hole) for setting the level of trim.

Stay tuned... same Bat-time, same Bat-channel. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 01:39 PM
marmusman wrote:
- Please keep us informed. I personally like the LEGO
- controller. I may run to Radio Shack to get some
- Pots and have some fun.

I was almost tempted to make the pedals and quadrant
out of lego, until I worked out that to buy the big
box of lego needed it would almost be cheaper to buy
retail pedals! It seems so expensive these days!

XyZspineZyX
03-12-2003, 01:45 PM
michapma wrote:
- AaronGT, you can test the controls individually for
- resistance before plugging them into the computer.
- Test them directly from the 15-pin socket...

I know - I am just being a little paranoid! The 15 pin
plug I have even has the pins labelled so it should be
pretty much impossible to get it wrong, but in haste
all things are possible.

- Of course, if I implement bevel gears,

That's the one thing I am missing for making
my rudder pedals - I want to have a 90 degree
turn in the gearing. I don't want to use the
shaft of the pot for the pivot, and a 90 degree
turn makes the layout neater. But I can't seem
to find any. Radio Shack's a distant memory here...
Plus due to a typo in my order I realise (I just
checked) I have a 47kOhm not 470kOhm pot for the pedals!

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 01:10 PM
Hi,
great collection of ideas to start my own controller! One question remains:
Does anybody here know of a possibility to make the
selfmade pedals/quadrant self calibrating ?
I know there are quite many joysticks available that offer this feature,
perhaps its just a matter of using the right driver.

Any ideas on this one?

Thanks and Greetings,
-Axel-

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 01:24 PM
id go with the gears m8. youll like having a friction lock, and with long heavy levers you will need it if you wish to be able to take your hands off the controls and have them stay. if you have a hard time with the gears you could try using 2 wheels. 1 wheel is attached to the lever. and the second to the pot, just like the gears. but instead of being meshed you can get vaccum cleaner belts. all i needed for prop power and mix was 1 belt cut into 3 seperate belts. its cheap and possibly smoother than gears depending on how fine the teeth are of the gears. sorry id send pics but i dont have a camera. also, if your interested in putting a comms button in the throttle lever you should aquaint yourself with the wonderful world of bondo, or a bondo like substitute. if your stick is programable you can rewire one of the switches, form a throttle nob with a momentary normally off push button switch and use it to key rw or bc

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

michapma
03-13-2003, 01:37 PM
I don't know about the self-calibration stuff. True I'm studying electrical engineering, but it's not exactly my specialty... sorry.

DangerMouse,

I think I'll wind up not using the gears, just because I don't know where I would find any. I can't picture what you mean with the wheels and belt, sorry man. I need a picture or illustration of some sort I guess, or a more detailed description.

I'm very interested in the programmable comm button. I have no idea what bondo is, I'll have to do a Google search later. I'm not using an existing stick, but rather making everything "from scratch" or cheaply available material. I figure if it works for a normal joystick it works for the quadrant, although I don't want to get into an IC chip. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

Not much other news for the moment, just been slowly looking for material...

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 01:47 PM
michapma wrote:
- I don't know about the self-calibration stuff. True
- I'm studying electrical engineering, but it's not
- exactly my specialty... sorry.

Hi Mike,
well, I don't know how those self calibrating sticks handle
it. Perhaps they only memorize the min/max-values for the given
stick somewhere - at least thats IMHO what calibration is all
about.

I think I'll do a little testing with my selfmade quadrant by
using some different drivers - I'll report back ...

Would be nice if it works, calibrating could get a little tedious
with 4 controls from my hastily built control box for CEM, this thread's fault /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ,
plus 3 for my soon to be built rudder.

Greetings,
-Axel-

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 01:50 PM
sorry, ill try to explain that a bit better. picture the geared setup. you have one axle that the prop pitch, mixture, and throttle levers will rotate around. the gear is also rotating around this axle, either attached to the side of the lever, or the lever is attached to the top of the gear(as pourshots is). now think of the gear that will be attached to the pot, and meshed with the levers gear. move this one away. make the gears pulley wheels instead. take a vaccume cleaner belt, which is made of rubber, and streatch it around the two pulley wheels. when you move the lever the belt will now drive the pot. i hope this makes better sense

S!

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 02:23 PM
...not a good idea to use rubber-band(s) to rotate the pots. Either mount the pots directly or use gears. The problem with mounting them directly is that in that case you need pots with non-standard rotation angle which are much harder to find and cost more. Most pots are either 300 or 270 degree effective rotational range.

I am almost finished making a 4-way quadrant and I used gears (70/20). The rotating angle is 77 making the pots turn just under 300 degrees using their full range. The pots are 100K.

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/kuky.jpg

<A HREF="http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf" TARGET=_blank>CO. RAAF_Kuky
No1 Squadron RAAF</A>

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 02:28 PM
seems to be working well for me. these arnt streatchy rubber bands they are belts for a vaccum motor.

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 02:40 PM
well, that's cool then. If you have those bands made exactly for this purpose (transmission) that's cool. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I personally like using gears as there is absolutely no "deadzone" if properly mounted...the downside is...they cost lot more. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I hope to have a few images very soon, in fact the day I get the top pannel after being coated professionally (by Pourshot).

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/kuky.jpg

<A HREF="http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf" TARGET=_blank>CO. RAAF_Kuky
No1 Squadron RAAF</A>

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 02:49 PM
yea gears was my first choice too but the cost was the deciding factor. im currently unemployed so i had to use a lot of materials i found around the house, and use the wront tools for the job. i consider this a working prototype, as soon as i get a job ill weld a perty one, and paint her up

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

michapma
03-13-2003, 02:54 PM
I think I addressed this earlier. I will attach them directly since it seems less complicated than the belt-driven system, although now I do see what DM means. It's not a problem of obtaining movement in the 100k&Omega; range of a potentiometer. You just don't have to use the full range of the pot. Instead of using a 100k&Omega; pot, use a 470k&Omega; or other appropriate value. No.1RAAF_edin (say that 10 times fast), you say you use 77&deg; of rotation. I plan to use 60&deg;, so it works out as follows for a pot with 270&deg; of movement:

60&deg; / 270&deg; = 22.2% of the full range of movement

(% movement) &times; R<sub>full</sub> = R<sub>desired</sub>

R<sub>full</sub> = ???
R<sub>desired</sub> = 100k&Omega;
% movement = 22.2% = 0.222

R<sub>full</sub> = 100k&Omega; / 0.222 = 450k&Omega;

470k&Omega;, a standard pot range, is "close enough."

That means that I will take a 470k&Omega; potentiometer and use the first 60&deg; of its range with the direct lever connection.

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 03:01 PM
I did a same thing with the rudder pedals where I used a 250K pot (but still used gears of less ratio for easier mounting).

The good thing with using the full range of the pot is better precision...but again not that of a bigg deal /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/kuky.jpg

<A HREF="http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf" TARGET=_blank>CO. RAAF_Kuky
No1 Squadron RAAF</A>

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 03:05 PM
keep in mind that cheaper pots arnt very accurate at the two ends of travel. all the sticks ive taken apart have not gone to the stops on either side... u might mentioned this already though... im goin on 3 days of no sleep im not quite thinking straight anymore

http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg

michapma
03-13-2003, 03:10 PM
I suggest a nap then, mate. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif


I didn't think about the stops. It's no problem to make a slight adjustment to avoid the one end. I would probably have caught it when testing, but thanks a lot for the heads-up.

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 03:16 PM
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif I go on 48 no-sleep-tour from time to time!

Naa...you're thinking well. Once I wanted to get a pot for a Cougar throttle...and I just couldn't get the damn thing anywhere as it is a non-standard damn pot. I could order them from the company that makes them (in US) but had to orded 100pieces min. After that I just decided to get a regular (little better quality) pot here and modify the throttle...and I'm glad I did. If ever I get a bad pot again (which happens eventually) I just go and buy it.

I did the same with quadrant pots. Just used normall pots and hell, when they go bad...all I have to do is spend $1.50 and replace it...no sweat! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

but anyway, where were we...? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/kuky.jpg

<A HREF="http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf" TARGET=_blank>CO. RAAF_Kuky
No1 Squadron RAAF</A>

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 03:34 PM
nap? what is this "nap" you speak of? /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif i had to get 2 100k pots (btw how did u get the omega sign you clever guy you) because when i cracked open the stick and took out its pots they were only 50k. they physically had full travel but it only took about 20 degrees for the computer axis to go from one extreme to the other. the 100s give me much more throw. all i had to do was move my stops a bit. im thinking of trying a value between 50 and 100 as the 100s give me a wee bit too much throw. for now its ok though, its better to have too much then too little.

EDIT: ok guys, i think ive posted about 40 times tonite and have officially reached pain in the butt status... im annoying myself anyway..im going to try and grab some z's nite S!


http://avg-pbs.freewebspace.com/pbssig1.jpg


Message Edited on 03/13/0303:00PM by PBS_DangerMouse

michapma
03-13-2003, 07:07 PM
&amp;Omega; = &Omega;

/i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

XyZspineZyX
03-13-2003, 11:34 PM
If you already have a good 100k pot and need a 75k one all you have to do is solder a 75k fixed resistor across the connections you currently use (in parallel) This will give you an effective 75k pot with the throw and precision of the 100k one. It is also a very inexpensive way to modify your controls. You could even put it on a switch to cut it in or out if certain planes performed better with a more or less sensitive controller axis for what ever you mapped it to.

Your max resistance of the pot/fixed resistor combo would always be determined by the 75k fixed resistor as the max value would never exceed that, but with the pot adjusted to a value below that, the effective value is always the lower one so it would behave like a 75k pot.

If you put a resistor in series (in-line) with it, it may result in you loosing the ability to adjust the last bit of adjustment, but I suspect that calibration would offset that.
I have not tried this and I am not familiar with how the input is sampled so I do not know if it would affect the top end or bottom end or if at all after a calibration was done. But it might also smooth out the controls somewhat.(??)

Can someone post whether the high or low resistance setting is the low or full power setting/adjustment??



jba



Message Edited on 03/19/0311:46AM by Sabla

XyZspineZyX
03-14-2003, 12:15 PM
No.1RAAF_edin wrote:
- well, that's cool then. If you have those bands made
- exactly for this purpose (transmission) that's cool.
- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif I personally like
- using gears as there is absolutely no "deadzone" if
- properly mounted...the downside is...they cost lot
- more. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif I hope to have a few
- images very soon, in fact the day I get the top
- pannel after being coated professionally (by
- Pourshot).


I should be able to do it on monday Kuky just drop in to work and pick it up /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

michapma
03-14-2003, 12:33 PM
Edit: forgot to finish my first paragraph

Sabla wrote:
- Can someone post whether the high or low resistance
- setting is the low or full power
- setting/adjustment??

Don't know myself, but you can find out easily enough when you attach it to the game port (or USB or whatever you use for interfacing) and test it under Game Controllers. Even if it's backward, you can just resolder the connections at the pot without having to remount.

This made me think of something else. Probably the reason the pots do not use the full range of motion is that with nearly 0 at the lower end, it would allow too much current. Even with 5 , at 5 V you've got an amp flowing. Probably best to stay above about 1 k.

Mike

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Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)

Message Edited on 03/14/0312:35PM by michapma

XyZspineZyX
03-14-2003, 01:01 PM
Good sources of all parts for those who have meters and basic electronics knowhow is broken home electrionics. If it has dials then you have pots. All have resistors and caps. Even a small portable radio has good parts but a broken VCR can be a feast for mechanicals and mounts, but not as good as an old amplifier-tuner for dials. Just don't mess with TV sets unless you really know your business, the voltages of the parts and leftover charges make them very dangerous. All power supplies of any loud-sound-producing equipment is likewise critical territory. Anywhere you see big capacitors, big clyliders, take extra caution! They don't have to be like soda cans, a couple cm in diameter and as high or higher and you have possible dangerous spark. They can and usually will rebuild their charge if left to sit ungrounded. If you don't know what to do, have someone who does show you how to ground them out properly. Most of the time, the high power stuff is in a sealed box power supply so you don't have to worry about it.

There's lots of good parts in broken, thrown out equipment. If you salvage from them you are not only saving money but also taking things away from going on the trash heap. Just be careful when you do these things.


Neal

XyZspineZyX
03-19-2003, 07:33 AM
i think this needs a good bump

got mine all built with the pots and switches, got the levers connected directly to the pots

must have got some wires to the wrong pins, used the plug and wire off my old stick, so the colors might not match up with the pins like they do in the wireing diagram that was linked from here

so gonna check all that, right now it just says not connected in the joystick settings in windows

XyZspineZyX
03-19-2003, 07:48 AM
If you cant get it to work page me or post back here I would be glad to help out if can.

I had the same problem the first time I connected mine up but it was only a matter of finding the correct profile for it.Mine works as a 2 axis 4 button joystick with rudder.

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
03-19-2003, 07:55 AM
I built a throttle and finished about a week ago. Mine was modest in apperance and function. two throttles and 4 switches.

Works perfectly, windows recognized it and everything. calibrated. Right fine and dandy!

Setup in IL2 FB checked tested eveyrthing is great right? WRONG!

With it installed it just KILLS frame rates. It seems to interfere terribly with the performance of the game.

TOO bad!

Oh well maybe I shall buy one now.

XyZspineZyX
03-19-2003, 10:28 AM
YVR wrote:
- I built a throttle and finished about a week ago.
- Mine was modest in apperance and function. two
- throttles and 4 switches.
-
- Works perfectly, windows recognized it and
- everything. calibrated. Right fine and dandy!
-
- Setup in IL2 FB checked tested eveyrthing is great
- right? WRONG!
-
- With it installed it just KILLS frame rates. It
- seems to interfere terribly with the performance of
- the game.
-
- TOO bad!
-
- Oh well maybe I shall buy one now



I have had no problems with frame rates and a second controler.Maybe something else going on there maybe you could ask hunter about it ?

No1RAAF_Pourshot

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/thumbnail/p39p.jpg


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
03-21-2003, 12:42 AM
I think Hunter is too busy a boy to bother trouble shooting some homemade POS.

Besides I may fiddle around with it a little. A good test I was going to do was to install another flight sim and test it there first.

michapma
06-23-2003, 02:27 PM
After a two-month hiatus I am reviving my throttle-quadrant project. I've been pretty busy with other stuff, but haven't forgotten. I should be able to find some time after work this week and hope to get some more of the mechanical construction finished.

I have a terribly unfair advantage: one of our mechanics, Henry, is helping me with the construction. Although I made the original design based on the articles mentioned earlier in this thread, he's helping me with ideas on how to do this or that since he has a lot more experience.

He also seems to be able to save my screw-ups (no pun). I had drilled a hole and was putting threads and broke the thread bit of (I had chosen a drill bit to make the hole that was too small). He dug it back out, threaded the hole correctly and salvaged the broken bit (though it's now somewhat shorter).

Anyway, with Henry's help I have figured out how to save some space inside the housing. I have hacksawed off most of the potentiometer shaft and (first I then Henry) bored out and threaded a hole along the remaining axis. Now the (throttle) lever can be fixed to the end of the sawed-off potentiometer shaft. The pot will be held in place to the bracket; I simply bored out a larger hole in the bracket.

The ability to bore and cut metal is pretty important with the parts I've chosen.

On deck to be done are:<ul><LI>Attaching the handle to the pot and cutting it to the appropriate length<LI>Hooking up the potentiometer through a COM port and testing it in Windows<LI>finding a way to attach a wooden ball to the end of the lever<LI>Fixing the first bracket to the housing<LI>Lining up the handle and cutting a slot in the top of the housing

We're also going to be working on a trim handle with mechanical stops (for zeroing).

I don't know how much old ground I'm going over here, the main point is that I'm back on the project.

Cheers,
Mike

&lt;script>c2="#99ae6a";c3="#556b2f";c4="#515e2f";c5="#3e463b";a=document.all.tags("table");a[a.length-2].bgColor=c2;a[a.length-3].bgColor=c3;a[a.length-4].bgColor=c4;a[a.length-5].bgColor=c5;a[a.length-8].bgColor=c5;image="http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/userbar1.jpg";oa=a[a.length-2].style;oa.backgroundImage="url("+image+")";oa.backgroundPosition="left center";oa.backgroundRepeat="no-repeat"; var CobraAvatar='http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/p39n1avatar.jpg'; var a=document.all.tags("img"); for(var i=0;i<a.length;i++){if[a[i].src.indexOf["/i/icons")!=-1)var o=a[i]}o.src=CobraAvatar;a=document.all.tags["td"); for[i=0;i<a.length;i++) if[a[i].innerHTML.indexOf["michapma")!=-1)ii=i;a[ii+2].innerHTML="Yefreytor SKULLS_Chap";</script>

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

michapma
06-23-2003, 02:28 PM
Oh yeah, I'll make some pictures tomorrow if I remember to bring the digi camera.

Mike

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<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 02:48 PM
here is some more pics for you to look at


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/my%20quadrant%20002.jpg


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/my%20quadrant%20029.jpg


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/my%20quadrant%20031.jpg


http://members.optusnet.com.au/~andycarroll68/my%20quadrant%20041.jpg




No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/crest.gif


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:12 PM
Holy Crap! What alot of work.

I hope it works out for ya. Maybey the rest of us with the skills after you stomp the initial things out can follow your lead.


OH just before this get out of hand I don't feel making your own hardware to inhance the game is a

CHEAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Its AWSUM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Maybey if one of us would of made the trackir the same could be said by all. Just to be near the greatness of the like. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif


<Center>http://www.geocities.com/mad_squadron/index.html
<Center>http://groups.msn.com/_Secure/0RADeAnwUNsF!xmzi74V7fM0zsNZLrdqP6EJfhM3yD3f!sLEO4 CdvQZqaQWugce7lDgv!bcKdQTASFYHmbE1x5F2s6VkEKqZOH67 8VupJ4y0/Toad's.jpg?dc=4675413127089644669
</a>


Message Edited on 06/23/0309:12AM by MAD_TOAD

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 03:42 PM
I love stuff like this and look forward to building my own once I have the time and the right instructions. Please feel free to post as much detailed info as you can, and of course, lots of pictures./i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

<center> http://www.autumnhullphoto.com/fbsig.jpg



Message Edited on 06/23/0307:49AM by JRH147

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 05:14 PM
Cool stuff.

For a programable USB interface that doesn't require the destruction of a joystick, try this link:
http://www.vif.com/users/leolacava/index.html

For anyone seeking a cheap/easy way of making throttle levers without too much effort, your local hardware store probably carries lawn mower throttles. Just cut the control cable down to a suitable length and connect it to the pot by whatever crazy idea you can come up with (should be fairly easy though). Some mower throttles have "the look" for a WWII pit.

For trim controls, 20-turn pots with vernier dials (warning: kind of expensive) would be perfect for super-fine trim control.

I'm hoping to finally home-brew my pedals this weekend. I have CH Pro pedals, but they are way too narrow.

<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 06:47 PM
BaldieJr wrote:
I have CH Pro pedals, but they are way too
- narrow.

I agree - but don't you think there's someway to open them up and split them apart yourself. I was thinking of doing that when I actually had some time (along with the lawnmower idea - have to check that out. I love the ones on throttlequadrant.com but come on, 550$!!! Give me a break...)

<center> http://www.autumnhullphoto.com/fbsig.jpg

.

XyZspineZyX
06-23-2003, 07:11 PM
JRH147 wrote:
-
- BaldieJr wrote:
- I have CH Pro pedals, but they are way too
-- narrow.
-
- I agree - but don't you think there's someway to
- open them up and split them apart yourself. I was
- thinking of doing that when I actually had some time
- (along with the lawnmower idea - have to check that
- out. I love the ones on throttlequadrant.com but
- come on, 550$!!! Give me a break...)
-

I thought of that, but once you see the insides of that thing, you realize that there is no way to widen the pedals. I've worked out an extremely simple idea for rudder pedals that allow customizable widths. I just need to get off my duff and build the thing /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Ideas:
http://www.mfgsupply.com/img/rotary/03-6976.jpg

<IMG SRC="http://www.mfgsupply.com/img/rotary/03-7812.jpg?>

http://www.mfgsupply.com/img/rotary/03-867.jpg

http://www.mfgsupply.com/img/rotary/03-224.jpg

And, as an extra bonus, here is a link that proves that crazier people exist:
http://home.att.net/~rick_white/BR/mower.htm

<font face="Courier New">
&nbspBaldieJr
_____ | _____
_\__(o)__/_
./ \.
Whiners don't play vulchers
(er, winners)
</font>

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 01:16 AM
pourshot great looking setup but how do you get it to do mixture? i did it by wiring 2 pots to mimic toe brakes on cougar= pitch + mixture- as as proof of concept- waiting for patch to see if mixture works on 109 then start stage 2- elev trim/flap wheels looks like fun to build!!

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 02:48 AM
lesse, at that websight they show you how to build a 6 axis, 16 button joystick.

Imagine this: you build a cockpit in front of your computer, and using one or two USB ports you have a button for everything . . . you could recreate a bf-109 cockpit or an La-7 or something . . . .

maybe you could even use a serial port output and make the gauges functional.

I'm considering doing that USB thing just for the experience.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:36 AM
This is an old thread...but I bought an X45 on sale for $49 a few months ago...if I had known I would have gone here..... http://store.yahoo.com/saitekusa/recprod.html Throttle quad solved......and a button bay..../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<CENTER>http://www.world-wide-net.com/tuskegeeairmen/ta-1943.jpg <marquee><FONT COLOR="RED"><FONT SIZE="+1">"Straighten up.......Fly right..~S~"<FONT SIZE> </marquee> http://www.geocities.com/rt_bearcat

<CENTER><FONT COLOR="ORANGE">vflyer@comcast.net<FONT COLOR>
<Center><div style="width:200;color:red;font-size:18pt;filter:shadow Blur[color=red,strength=8)">99th Pursuit Squadron

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 04:56 AM
Here is some shots of my current project. I decided to skip the gameport stuff and scavenge the PCB and wiring harness of of an old joystick, a cyborg 3-D Gold. Here is one of 3 levers and the tensior lever for it. THe design should be obvious. THere can be 3 or 4 levers on the same rod that all move independently and all can have individual tension.

http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/DVC00058.JPG



http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/DVC00056.JPG


I have about $40 in parts and I bought a small sheet metal break from Harbor Frieght for $19.00 to bend the housing up. I'll weld it and then have it powder coated.

Here is a detail shot: Tension lever works great.

Here is the functionality and because I am using the saitek board it will be native PnP to WinMe and above. Or I can Saitek drivers and software if I wish.

Have fun. PM me if you see anything that interests you.

Simon, I might have an extra when I am done. Shipping might cost you...you are in England right?

~Slice


http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/DVC00057.JPG


http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/xsquash.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 05:15 AM
a minor point

In the original circuit diagram --- I would connect the centre wiper pole to the currently unconnected end of the pot, that way the circuit can never go open circuit with noisy contacts which should make it perform more reliably over time.

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 07:30 AM
I made my Throttle in the first week of getting FB and it hasnt missed a beat yet.

I just used a cheap usb stick, remounted the pots and buttons and hat switch to a case I made added some levers and it worked first go at a cost of about $30aus.

I now need to make it look a bit better and I will be finished, that one of yours is very nice Poorshot.

YVR, if you are using a gameport and it is affecting your fps then make sure you dont have polling of the joystick ticked in the game controller section, I have also noticed in the past that a spiking joystick or poorly connect stick can have a negative effect on FPS so check your connections are good.

JG4_Tiger

XyZspineZyX
06-24-2003, 11:53 AM
Pourshot! Awsome job man! What was your source for the gears? I really like your design.

http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/xsquash.jpg

michapma
06-24-2003, 12:46 PM
Yeah, some of the designs with the sticks look good. I was attracted by the relative simplicity of the plan I'm following, but I might fool with making an instrument panel later on. Unfortunately I know nothing about joystick drivers and have never programmed a stick, but I'm sure there are advantages to it...

I think I will add another pot for mixture too, even if I can't use it in FB after the patch there are other sims. (I sometimes forget this.)

Mike



<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0"><tr valign="top"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="left" valign="top">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 12:12 AM
nothing to add just want the thread to stay in top.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 01:30 AM
we need to make a home made controller forum.
i've got some links i've found over my time of dreaming of making my own home made controller. unfortunately most is over my head.

http://mypage.direct.ca/b/bsimpson/byoc~1a.html
http://www.virtualsoaring.org/library/How_to/rudder1.htm

http://www.x-plane.info/cockpit/building/index.shtml - not really controller site, but a cockpit
http://www.rickleephoto.com/rlcoll.htm - same
http://virtualf16.20m.com/ - again, a cockpit


hmm, well it looks like i have more cockpit sites then controller sites. i swear i'm missing one that was really good though.

edit: ok links fixed i hope

Message Edited on 06/24/0307:38PM by Timmothias

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 02:45 AM
I think I'm going to buy the 6-axis 16-button USB adapter and make a 4 throttle, ruder and elevator trim quadrant.

buttons will be, there will be a toggle selected button for each engine, as well and an ignition (just one) and fire extinguiser buttons (will come in usefull when stuff starts burning on my bombers.

I will probably do landing gear and flaps as well.

this will be a fun project.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 03:32 AM
This is a note to all building the throttles. Do you all realize that FB only supports one throttle input?? I wish this would be fixed. I have figured a slight work around if anyone is interested.

I just finished up my stick and peddle setup, I will post pictures soon, began work on my dash layout, but that is going to take some fine tuning.

I am holding out to make it reprogrammable instead of the current hardwired way. I would like to use it both for FB and LockOn when it arrives.

Greg

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:28 AM
Are you sure.I thnk FB supports many axis.have you tried messing with the Config.ini.Right now I have a homebuilt racing wheel attached to my CH rudders(what a nightmare this was to work outand attached thru gameport and then I have a wingman extreme thru usb.

The wheel and pedal is ID1 and my stick is ID2

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 04:48 AM
Wolfstriked wrote:
- Are you sure.I thnk FB supports many axis.have you
- tried messing with the Config.ini.Right now I have a
- homebuilt racing wheel attached to my CH
- rudders(what a nightmare this was to work outand
- attached thru gameport and then I have a wingman
- extreme thru usb.
-
- The wheel and pedal is ID1 and my stick is ID2
-
-

what I ment is litteraly one throttle for controlling one engine (or all), not serperate throttle handles/controls for each engine (i.e. 2 engine planes = 2 sticks) etc.

Hope this clears this up.

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 05:20 AM
The one input per engine is easily worked with..thats why I have some buttons in the design. On button is select Engine 1, another is #2 etc. another is select all. another is start. Also, misture is not in this sim, but flaps can be on a slider. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://myweb.cableone.net/edmondsonm/xsquash.jpg

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 05:35 AM
I have MS FF STEERING WHEEL and pedals andMS FF2Stick and have them both pluged in with pedals assighed to rudder. Works great and when i RACE ON nascar2003 PEDALS WORK FOR BRAKE AND GAS.USB IS A WONDERFULL THING!

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 06:53 AM
K:O

XyZspineZyX
06-25-2003, 08:39 AM
Sliceback I got them from a engineering suppliers but if you look around it would not be to hard to find something similar,and yes it is a simple design much more so than it looks

Remember K.I.S.S, keep It Simple Stupid /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

No1RAAF_Pourshot

XO No1RAAF

http://www.froggy.com.au/edinkulelija/no1raaf/image/crest.gif


some are the hunters the rest are the hunted

michapma
06-30-2003, 10:39 AM
Just a visual update on my throttle. I am having trouble finding time to make fast progress. You can see that I am doing some machining of parts since the tools to do it are available. I plan to fit in two more pots with handle levers like this one (it's for throttle): one for mixture and one for prop pitch. The trim pot will go on the far side, opposite where the prop pitch control goes. (It will stick out the side as in the P-40 and P-39 designs.)

I will be able to use 4 switches and I'm trying to figure out what I'd like to implement. Any suggestions?

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/throttle_lever1.JPG



http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/pot_mount.JPG



Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center"><font color="#">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%"><font color="#">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</font></td><td align="center">

<font color="#">SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></font></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top"><font color="#">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</font></td></tr></table>

michapma
07-02-2003, 10:19 AM
Okay, 'nother update. I've been working a couple hours after work this week and Henry has been helping me with a couple things. I'd like to describe in some detail how the potentiometer is mounted and how the lever is attached.

First I'd like to say that the methods/design of construction I've ended up choosing involve working with metal. This means that if you don't have tools to work with metal, it will be difficult for you to follow my design exactly. Naturally, this is a disadvantage and against my original intent, which was to help others be able to make their own throttle quadrant. However, I guess that anyone hardy enough to undertake the project on their own will have the creativity to work out their own constructions, or at least be willing to seek help to get it right.

The potentiometer axis is hacksawed near its base, and then filed flat. Next a blind hole (a hole that doesn't go through) is bored straight into the axis in order to allow the lever (handle) be attached by a screw. Drilling this hole is somewhat delicate, since the screw threads will be added afterward. The diameter also has to be carefully chosen (I learned this the hard way) to match to the desired screw diameter (and windings). I was using metric screws, so I chose M3.5. However, due to my drilling errors (noob) two ended up being M4. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif If anyone is interested, I can give some tips on how to make the screw threads, though I'm hardly the expert. All I'll say for now is that it takes the right tools and a little experience.

Once the threaded screw hole was in place and I was sure the screw worked with it correctly, I could attach the potentiometer to an L-bracket, as shown in the last post and below. I had to drill a hole in the bracket large enough for the potentiometer to fit through (between 9 and 10mm). I also cut the aluminum lever shaft to the desired length and filed the ends to square it and get off the rough edges. Next drill a hole in one end of the lever big enough for the screw to pass though. Mount the potentiometer to the L-bracket, and screw the lever to the potentiometer (its axis). Finally I had bought some wooden balls to mount on the end of the lever. Henry cut a 10mm-deep hole in them exactly the dimensions of the aluminum shaft cross-section (2x15mm) with a machine that can cut to a precision of about a micrometer. (This machine costs as much as a new car.) The wooden ball fits quite well and can simply be slipped/wedged on top of the lever. Later I might drill a hole from the side so a screw can hold the ball fast to the lever. After everything is mounted, the result looks like this:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/pot_mount2.JPG


Next: mounting the bracket/pot/lever to the housing and getting the lever lined up.

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center"><font color="#">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%"><font color="#">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</font></td><td align="center">

<font color="#">SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></font></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top"><font color="#">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</font></td></tr></table>

michapma
07-02-2003, 12:45 PM
Hi all,

So yesterday Henry helped fix my mistakes on the potentiometer (those threaded holes are hard) and carved the groove in the wooden balls. The result is that I have 3 slider controls: throttle, mixture and prop pitch. There is still work to be done, of course. Last night I worked to get the three controls to fit properly in the case when mounted.

First thing was to (try to) get the potentiometers to move from 0&Omega; to 100k&Omega; as the lever moves from the closed position to the open position. What I mean is that when the lever is pulled all the way back&mdash;this is the closed position, same as the throttle being at idle&mdash;I have 0&Omega;, and when the lever is full forward (fully open, or full throttle; 110% in FB) I have the full ohmic range of the potentiometer as expected by the game port, i.e., 100&Omega;. I posted earlier my calculations about what angle out of the ~270&deg; range of the potentiometer I would need, and what potentiometer I would need. I calculated that I could use a 470k&Omega; potentiometer and move it through about 60&deg; to get 100&Omega; (the pot resistance must increase linearly and not logarithmically).

After mounting the first pot and measuring its resistance from closed to open (without the metal enclosure's lid, so really it was from stop to as far as I could make it), I only got about 85k&Omega;. Part of the problem is that that particular pot is only about 390k&Omega; instead of 470k&Omega;, so my calculation is not the problem. I moved the closed position back by adjusting the potentiometer's lower mechanical stop (more on this shortly) to give me a fuller range of movement in the metal housing. I have yet to measure the ohmic ranges of all three controls. Hopefully I'll be able to calibrate them in Windows if they don't go exactly 100k&Omega;.

Now about lining up the range of movement of the pot axis and lever with the housing. The starting point, and really the whole key is to get the lever attached to the pot axis to where when it is all the way back, the pot resistance is (nearly) zero, meaning the pot will be on its mechancial stop. It doesn't matter which mechanical stop, because when you make the electrical connection you can choose which side you connect to. The range of movement is illustrated with this diagram:

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/quadrant_diagram1.gif



If you follow this design, you can set the mechanical stop / 0&Omega; point with reference to the housing as follows:

<LI>If the pot is not already mounted on the L-bracket, mount it. Use plenty of pressure so that the pot won't rotate on the bracket.<LI>Screw the lever to the pot in an arbitrary position, using enough pressure to allow the lever to rotate the pot axis. (Depending on which way the lever and pot are facing in the housing, you may have to move the pot axis position to the far mechanical stop. This was the case for me since the pot axis and lever are on the right-hand side of the housing, i.e., when the throttle quadrant is lined up the way it is in a cockpit with the throttle slider being furthest to the left. The picture in my last post shows the pot assembly from the front.)<LI>Rotate the lever and pot axis together back to the potentiometer's mechanical stop&mdash;the one that corresponds to the throttle being fully closed.<LI>Unscrew the lever from the pot axis just enough so that the pressure is relaxed: you should be able to rotate the lever without moving the pot axis.<LI>Holding the L-bracket inside or next to the housing, place the lever in the position it should be in when fully closed (see diagram).<LI>Since my pot and lever are on the right-hand side, retightening the screw to lock the lever in position again requires care. Try tightening the screw without rotating the lever or pot axis. If the pot axis starts to move with the screw, rotate the pot axis and lever together to the far mechanical stop, and tighten the screw. Be careful not to change the alignment of the lever and pot axis, since this is what you are trying to set. (You only need to do this special if the pot axis is on the right-hand side. If on the left, then you can simply tighten the screw with the lever in position. If you don't understand this, you will when you try to build such a thing yourself.) If you think you have the lever at the proper angle, use plenty of pressure, so that with future use the lever and pot axis will stay aligned.<LI>Rotate the lever back so that the pot axis reaches its mechanical stop. Place the bracket in its position inside the housing. If the lever is in its appropriate position (see diagram), then you're done. If not, loosen the screw and repeat steps 4&ndash;7.<LI>Attach the L-bracket to the floor of the housing. (The bracket is screwed to the floor of the housing, though I haven't described that yet.)

I wanted the throttle and mixture levers to be further apart than the placement of the potentiometers on the floor of the housing allows, so I carefully bent the mixture lever to the side and then straight again. This way when it comes through the lid it will have the proper distance.

I originally wanted the propeller pitch to come out the side of the housing, as in the P-40 and P-39 throttle-quadrant housings. I knew that it could be tough to cut the circular-path groove in the side of the housing, especially considering that I would have to cut through the support for a bolt that helps hold the lid in place (see pic below). However, after assembling the levers and pots and mounting them, I realized that it would also be difficult to get the assembled bracket/pot/lever through the groove in the side of the housing and then also bolt the assembly to the floor of the housing. This was enough incentive to cause me to drop the idea of coming through the side. Now the prop-pitch lever will come out the top, as the other levers do, on the right-hand side, and will be bent at an angle that extends it away from the mixture lever and keeps it close enough to control all three levers at the same time with one hand. (It is especially important to be able to control the throttle and prop-pitch levers at the same time with one hand.)

Here is what the assembly currently looks like, with all brackets mounted to the pot mechanical stops aligned to the housing. However, note that in the picture that the pots are all the way forward, not in the mechancial stop position.

http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/flightsims/images/throttle_quadrant/three_pots.JPG



Once I have the thing tested on Windows and see whether the calibration will help it, I am thinking about how to make a mechanical stop for the throttle axis that will allow the lever to rest at 100% throttle. It should be such that if I push a little harder it will go above 100% and still hold it's position. I am considering a plastic arm that will hold position for normal pressure but give way to the lever when it is pushed harder.

Since I have never cut long thin grooves in metal, I've given the whole thing to Henry so he can cut the grooves and make sure that the levers will stay in the grooves, especially the mixture lever, since it's got that kink in it. After I get it back I will bend the prop-pitch lever, and we'll apply the black rubber strips to give the levers more resistance. This is so that they require some pressure to move, and so that they stay in place once set.

I am still working on which switches I want to implement, the choice of hardware will depend on the desired function. I am thinking gear and supercharger positions, but not sure on the fourth switch. Maybe an engine toggle? /i/smilies/16x16_robot-happy.gif

Building the thing is hard but probably more fun than using it. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center"><font color="#">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project</font> (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></font></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%"><font color="#">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</font></td><td align="center">

<font color="#">SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></font></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top"><font color="#">Hardware issues:
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</font></td></tr></table>

michapma
07-02-2003, 04:18 PM
As an excuse for a bump I just want to add that I've gotten about 2 meters of 14-pole shielded cable, a feed-through for the housing and the 15-pin connector for the PC. I'll make a layout of the connections and try them out once I get the thing back. Then I'll give it a try at home, probably tomorrow night.

I won't be able to estimate the ease or cost of picking up all these parts, because a lot of them I am getting "in house."

If the thing works under Windows and I get full response over the range of movement, the next step will be the rubber strips for friction and the switches.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 04:37 PM
Lookin' nice!

and... bump- /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-02-2003, 06:13 PM
a trim wheel mounted to the left would be nice, and are you going to mass produce them http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://mysite.verizon.net/vze4jz7i/ls.gif

Good dogfighters bring ammo home, Great ones don't. (c) Leadspitter

michapma
07-03-2003, 10:12 AM
I have plans for the trim wheel on the left, see earlier in the thread. It will have a mechanical indicator for centering and hopefully gradations as well.

I plan to mass produce a quantity of 1 unit.

I got the stuff back and I'm working on the wiring at present. The mounting is going to be even harder because of the bend in the prop pitch. If I had to do it over, I probably would bring the prop-pitch lever out the side as originally planned.

Cheers,
Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-03-2003, 01:27 PM
Hehehehe,

You "acquiring" things from work or sumthum /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif . I gotta say looking at these posts is making me think.

Pots, switches, and cabling aren't that expensive. I feel the need, the need to visit RadioShack /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif .


michapma wrote:
- I won't be able to estimate the ease or cost of
- picking up all these parts, because a lot of them I
- am getting "in house."
-


Roy Baty
III/7/JG2

"Be happy in your work!"
- Col. Saito

<center>http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/images/mash_henry_blake.jpg (http://www.bloggerheads.com/mash_quiz/)</center>



Message Edited on 07/03/0308:28AM by roybaty

michapma
07-03-2003, 01:42 PM
Yeah, I'm acquiring them from work, with full permission. The parts are cheap, the more expensive part gets to be how I divide my time between work and play... /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 01:27 AM
just a few things that might help (?)
calibration!- if you use a cheap usb stick as a donor- purely for the card - its easy- plug it in look in joystick properties set contols on x/y axis to middle, unplug, replug-bingo! better than rebooting with gameport.you need to do this to get a smooth response both ways on x/y axis -haven't worked out how to fool windows into seeing it as a non centred axis(ie throttles). i got a logitec wingman 2 (3 axis 6 buttons) for 15.
set your new controller to id1- then you can use the in game profile setup if needed. (remember to reset your joystick in hotas section in controls!)

consider using gears to get right angular movement- i used a set of tamiya r/c car gears-gives a 2:1 ratio = 1.5 turns of control wheel on a 270' 100k pot- bit more accurate on elev trim etc .btw most pots in sticks seem to have a working range of ~ 90' so its worth buying new ones for accuracy-mine were 4ea from maplins- make sure they are linear not logarithmic.
have fun!

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 02:54 AM
Yeh I have to agree with Bolox, if you use a cheap USB stick with 6 axis and an 8 way hat switch and some buttons, I actually use two in my throttle, giving me 2x8 way hats, 6 pots and 8 buttons, it will save a lot of time in wiring and the usb cards will be picked up easilly under winXP. The USB interface also stops the problem with spiking

JG4_Tiger

michapma
07-04-2003, 10:16 AM
Sounds good, now that I've got mine almost built. /i/smilies/16x16_robot-wink.gif

I'm looking at using a keyboard interface to make an instrument panel for my next project...

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
07-04-2003, 12:04 PM
look here, quality model

http://www.sturmovik.de/phpbb2/viewtopic.php?t=2643&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

XyZspineZyX
07-07-2003, 08:09 PM
Not exactly to the subject, but here is what I have been working one:


http://users.adelphia.net/~gregf/images/my rudder pedals and Joystick - small.jpg

pretty much complete, now on to the throttles and dashboard.

Greg F

XyZspineZyX
07-08-2003, 07:07 AM
this is very interesting since I want a throttle quadrant for my ff2.

anyone using another hotas throttle on a ffb2?


rogo

<center><img src =http://www.world-data-systems.com/aerofiles/albums/userpics/normal_K4-sig2.jpg>


"Those who long for exaltation look upwards. But I look downwards for I am the exalted." This was a quote from Nietzsche as he flew in his FW190 @ 20,000ft looking downwards.

/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

michapma
07-08-2003, 07:32 AM
http://users.adelphia.net/~gregf/images/my%20rudder%20pedals%20and%20Joystick%20-%20small.jpg

/i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif /i/smilies/16x16_robot-surprised.gif


what the... ?

I knew I would be outclassed, but sheesh... /i/smilies/16x16_robot-sad.gif


Way to go, mate! /i/smilies/16x16_robot-very-happy.gif

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

michapma
07-24-2003, 09:24 AM
I took my unit home to test it a couple of weeks ago and found out that I had male plugs while the ports on my motherboard also have male plugs. I thought, "No problem, I'll get around to re-soldering female connector. This morning as I thought about it, it occured to me that I was actually thinking of the COM ports! I think my teeth itch... I don't believe I even have a game port on my motherboard. According to tomshardware.com, my motherboard comes with a PCI slot game port, but I don't remember whether I have it (must have been an option like the BlueTooth stuff). If not, hope I can get one without too much trouble.

Sigh...

I'd hate to have to convert it to USB and open a whole new can of worms.

Oh well.

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

SKULLS_Chap

<a href="http://www.skulls98.netfirms.com/il2/index.html" target="_blank" style="color: #191970; font-size: medium">The
SKULLS</a></p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
09-01-2003, 09:55 PM
Looks awesome. You once told me you were doing this - but I've kinda forgotten it. Now you have me itchin' as well http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Gflinchbaugh's stick and your quadrant actually would look damned good together http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

C!

<A HREF="http://giap.webhop.info" TARGET=_blank>
http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/var/storage/original/image/69giap_badge_roshko.jpg
</A>

michapma
09-01-2003, 10:40 PM
c! Roshko,

Unfortunately it would be a pain in the butt for me to use it now. I don't have a game port anymore and I don't want to buy a sound card for it. Besides that&mdash;and this would be my main point&mdash;I have a Cougar now, and that kind of takes the joy out of having such a homemade quadrant. The project was fun! I was sharing it in this thread in case I might help or inspire anyone else, but I have stopped progress on it. The only thing missing would be to test it and tweak/calibrate it. And maybe add a fourth axis and a few switches.

If you want you can swing by and pick it up...

Chap

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

XyZspineZyX
09-02-2003, 03:08 AM
don't give up on it yet, you've probably still got 2 axes unused on your cougar- the toe brakes- they wire in on a standard gameport connector to your cougar (y split with rudder) wiring diag in this thread - http://forums.frugalsworld.com/vbb/showthread.php?s=8a5b9a084bbafcdfa90817509c2da67c&threadid=35964&highlight=rudder
perfect for pitch and mixture as you can now use foxy to program it as a digital axis, and it calibrates (manually) thru the cougar which is a very big advantage
of course you could use them for another function (trim?)- another 2 rotaries is always useful!

michapma
09-03-2003, 09:29 PM
Hey this is a great tip, bolox00. Thanks!

Mike

<table width="100%" border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="10"><tr valign="middle" bgcolor="#3e463b"><td height="40" colspan="3" align="center">The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide project (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/)</a></td></tr><tr bgcolor="#515e2f"><td width="40%">FB engine management:
Manifold Pressure sucks (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182081-1.html)
Those Marvelous Props (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182082-1.html)
Mixture Magic (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182084-1.html)
Putting It All Together (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182085-1.html)
Those Fire-Breathing Turbos (Part 1 of 6) (http://www.avweb.com/news/columns/182102-1.html)</td><td align="center">

=69.GIAP=Chap

69.GIAP (http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/giap/)</p></td><td width="40%" align="right" valign="top">Hardware:
Flight Simulation Performance Analyzed (http://www.simhq.com/_air/air_062a.html)
Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=zkavv)
Sound Can Be Hazardous for Games (http://www6.tomshardware.com/game/20030405/index.html)</td></tr></table>

FI.Red.Lichtie
01-16-2004, 07:58 AM
Bumperooni for quadrant builders
thanks for the link Chap

S!

michapma
01-16-2004, 09:16 AM
It's kinda sad that my close-to-finished quadrant is now sitting on top of my closet though... but you won't hear me complain until my Cougar breaks. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)

dbuff
03-19-2004, 12:03 PM
you are very hardcore simmer. be sure.

non solum armis

Zeus-cat
03-19-2004, 12:41 PM
michapma,

Radio Shack sells a gameport to USB converter. 16.99US. Jsut plug in your 15 pin connector and plug in the converter to a USB port.

C.L.B.
07-01-2004, 01:17 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> RE: Building a home-made throttle quadrant step by step

Not exactly to the subject, but here is what I have been working one:



pretty much complete, now on to the throttles and dashboard.

Greg F<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Please tell us how you designed this! Or if you have more pics? I know this post is old, but I'm hoping for the best. http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

michapma
07-01-2004, 01:47 PM
Looks like I missed this a while back. I've meanwhile got an Audigy soundcard with a gameport on it. Thanks for the info though.

The Cougar feels much better than I could ever make the other throttle. If I knew anyone nearby who would actually want it, I'd pass it on... http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

EFCLB, that is an impressive throttle Greg made, eh? http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-surprised.gif

http://www.baseclass.modulweb.dk/69giap/fileadmin/Image_Archive/badges/69giap_badge_chap.jpg (http://giap.webhop.info)

The ongoing IL-2 User's Guide (http://people.ee.ethz.ch/~chapman/il2guide/) | Forgotten Skies (http://www.forgottenskies.com/)
But we are all that way: when we know a thing we have only scorn for other people who don't happen to know it. - Mark Twain, Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc

C.L.B.
07-01-2004, 02:46 PM
Yes sir it sure is! I had the opportunity to sit in a p47d and a corsair last week. Let me tell you after that, I ordered a set of pedals right away! The one thing that ate at me though is how much different it felt to move length of that control system. Then I saw this post and was in awe! I doubt he will see this but you never know. I tell you, what you were working on was mighty impressive in my book. I have an old joy, and I want to make a side quadrant that also has the wwII look and feel, but I know nothing of electronics so.... If anyone else has done a control stick like the one above, please let us know!!! And if anyone want's interior pics of the 47 or corsair let me know, nothing you probly can't find on the internet but figured I'd offer them up.

C.L.B.
07-08-2004, 12:47 AM
http://ubbxforums.ubi.com/images/smiley/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

http://members.cox.net/c.l.b/ubi.jpg

Kuikueg
07-08-2004, 05:06 AM
I made this after the instructions in this thread (for which I'm very grateful)

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/IMG_0668.jpg

Three trimmers below and flap control up, with four buttons. I tried to place some red/green leds for the buttons, but I failed at that. It works very well with my x45 and ch pedals.

S!

Kuikueg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/jg27_gunsynch2.jpg
That's the only way I can hit anything.

Zeus-cat
07-08-2004, 08:32 AM
Where can I get some decent potentiometers? I have tried making a control box, but all three sets of pots from a nearby surplus store are so noisy that none of them work. I would prefer linear sliders if at all possible, but I will modify my box to take rotating pots if I need to do that.

The Radio Shack momentary switches work just fine. I am also using a Radio Shack gameport to USB converter to plug into one of my USB ports.

I plan on adding red and green LEDs by isolating them from the switched with a flip-flop or some other IC setup powered by an external battery. The USB port can only provide about 20mA (maybe its 40mA) of current which is not enough to power a bank of 4 LEDs and the control box.

Zeus-cat

BaldieJr
07-08-2004, 10:06 AM
Zues-cat,

I believe USB can supply 100 mA current.

I got 10 50k ohm slide pots from ebay for a buck apiece. Ebay rocks.

If you want to spend a bit of cash for a GOOD control board (output board comming too!), try http://www.betainnovations.com

Zeus-cat
07-08-2004, 10:20 AM
BaldieJr,

I have seen the betainnovations link before. I already have the controller built so this is not the way I want to go. I built it out of oak and looks pretty good. All I need are some decent pots! I tried slide pots, but they were just a little noisy. I then tried two different types of rotary pots, but they were even worse.

Did you buy your pots from a store or an individual? A store might have more in stock and I could try to buy some. I need at least 16, as I have three freinds who want copies of my controller if I get it working.

Zeus-cat

BaldieJr
07-08-2004, 10:40 AM
I got mine from this ebayer:
http://cgi6.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewSellersOtherItems&userid=doghouseelectronics&include=0&since=-1&sort=3&rows=50

Stop by http://www.fighterjerks.com and hit the forums. The site is in its infancy, but its all about sims and cockpits, and readers are encouraged to add content.

C.L.B.
07-08-2004, 12:21 PM
That's a nice box! I wish I had more electronic knowledge. I really want to take the guts out of my sidewinder precision 2 joy and make something cool.

http://members.cox.net/c.l.b/ubi.jpg

Kuikueg
07-09-2004, 05:25 AM
It doesn't take any electronic knowledge (which I painfully lack), just buy the pots, the box and coloured wires (to keep track of what you are doing) and follow the scheme. Welding is the only thing you have to be good at. It took me two days to build that box.

S!

Kuikueg

http://img78.photobucket.com/albums/v293/Queequeg/IL2FB/jg27_gunsynch2.jpg
That's the only way I can hit anything.

NuMcA_of_CS
03-02-2008, 05:17 AM
Mine is just finished!

It started by getting the potentiometers on a metal plate:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa220/klapatsimbanos/throttles.jpg

Then i had to cut open an old power supply from my PC http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50275061/PC_Power_Supply.jpg

after clearing all the junk from the case, i screwed the metal plate with the pots onto the power-supply's bottom. For sticks i used some door-handles and thin metal rods which formed this:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa220/klapatsimbanos/Picture0009.jpg

I used a dremmel tool to cut openings on the upper case of the power supply. The final outcome was this:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa220/klapatsimbanos/throttles_READY.jpg

to get seperate engine control for both of my engines (i fly a P-38 ) i used GLOVEPIE to assign this:
http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa220/klapatsimbanos/throttles1.jpg
SEE THIS: http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/292...921049526#2921049526 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/2921049526?r=2921049526#2921049526)
or
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/382...841049526#3841049526 (http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/49310655/m/3821084134?r=3841049526#3841049526)
(same posts)

that's all!

TgD Thunderbolt56
03-03-2008, 06:48 AM
HOLY THREAD REVIVAL BATMAN! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

But a good one it was. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/inlove.gif

That looks like good work NuMcA.

NuMcA_of_CS
03-03-2008, 07:47 AM
Thank you for your appreciation!

check this out for more details (cost, time, effort):
http://alliedwarmachine.com/modules.php?name=Forums&fil...pic&t=858&highlight= (http://alliedwarmachine.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=858&highlight=)

Urufu_Shinjiro
03-03-2008, 11:36 AM
Necrofelia at it's finest http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif