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View Full Version : fighting with the 1.11 bf-109s



XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 04:22 AM
As a dedicated 109 driver, I would be interested in other opinions regarding the fighting characteristics of the patched 109s. I was disapointed at first, but after a while if you learn how to fight with it, you can pretty much kill anything with a 109. Not neccesarily the K-4 either. I have been using the 109g-6 late and have been having good results with it, as long as I remember not to turn with anything. What do you guys think?

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 04:22 AM
As a dedicated 109 driver, I would be interested in other opinions regarding the fighting characteristics of the patched 109s. I was disapointed at first, but after a while if you learn how to fight with it, you can pretty much kill anything with a 109. Not neccesarily the K-4 either. I have been using the 109g-6 late and have been having good results with it, as long as I remember not to turn with anything. What do you guys think?

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 04:54 AM
It fly ok for me, at least I`m able to shot down latest Yak and P-51 when some help on my side, in one to one combat I have to maneuver a lot and hope that the guy will be in the path of the 20mm or 30mm center cannon, but normally they won.
The only thing that help on the BF-109 is to keep the speed up.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 05:24 AM
Of course one can kill anything in them if lucky or in alt advantage. That's besides the point, they are still very much porked and uneven from model to model.

http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 05:32 AM
Werre_ wrote:
- Of course one can kill anything in them if lucky or
- in alt advantage. That's besides the point, they are
- still very much porked and uneven from model to
- model.
Well, thats the real trick. As long as you are able to gain altitude and bounce from height, That was the standard tactic of the jagdwaffe. I think you would be lucky to survive in anything at an altitude disadvantage versus a worthy opponent.

http://www.cbrnp.com/profiles/insignia/italy/incocca-tende-scaglia.jpg
Saluti!
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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 05:35 AM
So far, online at least, getting up to about 4000m, then diving down on bandits and doing a very SHALLOW climb back up, you can keep most of your E and regain your alt, if a bit slower than a strict zoom climb. Works like a charm, and if you HAVE to zoom climb, be sure and regain alt back up or you're toast.

http://www.mechmodels.com/images/klv_ubisig1a.jpg


Oh yeah, I'm a P-63 whiner too! /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 06:30 AM
Korolov wrote:
- So far, online at least, getting up to about 4000m,
- then diving down on bandits and doing a very SHALLOW
- climb back up, you can keep most of your E and
- regain your alt, if a bit slower than a strict zoom
- climb. Works like a charm, and if you HAVE to zoom
- climb, be sure and regain alt back up or you're
- toast.
-

IF it is just you and your target. For example, if you dive from 4000m on a bandit at 1000m and there is an LA-7 flying straight and level at 2000m in the vicinity, it will likely catch you during your exit whether you shallow climb out or zoom climb. If there is a P-39 about, it will catch you if you zoom climb. And even if it doesn't, the P-39 is a surprisingly stable gun platform when hanging on its prop and your lack of speed will make you a very easy target. I've done it and had it done to me. Shots at 500m are no problem under those conditions.

--AKD

http://www.flyingpug.com/pugline2.jpg

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 06:49 AM
In early 109s vs. early VVS. theres no historical climb advantage for 109s which scews tactics.

109 wasnt suited for highspeed attacks because it's controls weren't best of aiming at highspeed. You could only control pitch with trim at over 750kmh. Historically climb was often used to keep up advantage in fight. Fight was usually done using agressive tactics, not hit&run. 109s would dominate fight with their climbrate and keep it vertical if possible.
Many pilots state that 109s could enter and exit fights at will due to superior climbrate.

IMHO now early 109s are just half assed b&z planes not good for much anything else. Any crap plane can keep alive using hit&run attacks from several kilomemeters alt advatage. But that is no way to be effective and gain your mission objectives. oh well, i dont know what im babbling about. point is anyway...one cant fly it historically. VVS planes in 1941 climb just as well.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:24 PM
ladoga wrote:
- In early 109s vs. early VVS. theres no historical
- climb advantage for 109s which scews tactics.
-
- 109 wasnt suited for highspeed attacks because it's
- controls weren't best of aiming at highspeed. You
- could only control pitch with trim at over 750kmh.
- Historically climb was often used to keep up
- advantage in fight. Fight was usually done using
- agressive tactics, not hit&run. 109s would dominate
- fight with their climbrate and keep it vertical if
- possible.
- Many pilots state that 109s could enter and exit
- fights at will due to superior climbrate.
-
- -

Again the myth of 109s beeing so sluggish at high speeds. AFAIK this was true only to Emils, and high speed handling from F-series onwards was pretty good, better than most of the other planes of the time. Early 109 does have the climb advantages in game also, but some VVS-planes are overmodelled in this section, such as Lagg-3 '41 climbing almost 18m/s (with F-2) instead of some 9m/s (IRL).. Yak1B is also overmodelled climber.

Only problem for early war 109s are the undermodelling of german guns, such as MG151/15 and MG17 (like MG17s dont have any affect on VVSplanes like Lagg3 and I-16).. Or they are not undermodelled in firepower, but just that VVS planes are overmodelled in terms of Damage modelling.

Late war 109s are even harder, as there are some top performers for VVS.. like LA-7 climbing amazing 30m/s up to 3000 meters, meaning you can't outclimb it with late 109s (should be 23-24 m/s).. 109s need patience, just like in real life. If you have patience, you will do fine. Also use of flaps can be great help, if you know how to handle them properly.

I'm sure 1.2 will fix most of the overmodelled planes, so be patient /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif



____________________________________



Official Sig:



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XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 02:46 PM
Hi Vipez,

I was wondering if you are able to do better than what Il2Compare says the matching climbs at TAS should be for the LaggS4 and 109F2. If you can get the LaggS4 going at 16m/s+ then you should probably let us know how. With a track.

Edit: PS vipez, I just thought I would check that it was indeed you among those claiming that the 15mm and 7.92mm german guns aren't effective at taking down I-16s.

First run through I've done two tracks now with them exploding or setting engines on fire from 7 15mm hits - in the tailplane.

You might want to go and look at that while you're preparing us your 18m/s climbing Lagg3S4 trk.

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/f2v****gs4.jpg

http://home.iprimus.com.au/djgwen/fb/worker_parasite.jpg

Need help with NewView? Read this thread. (http://forums.ubi.com/messages/message_view-topic.asp?name=us_il2sturmovik_gd&id=yzbcj)

Message Edited on 09/24/0301:58PM by clint-ruin

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 03:07 PM
The real test is a 1 on 1 fight where both of you take off at the same time, La7 vs you in a 109, what do you do, oh and don't try to run /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

<a>http://www.talonsoft.com/images/hiddenanddangerous/hiddenanddangerous-eyes.jpg</a>

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 06:42 PM
You can shoot down opponents post patch but the 109 has become a one dimensional fighter - climb - drop down on target - fire - hit\miss - climb - yawn - patience - yawn.
Any attemp at horizontal maneouveres finds you wallowing at 270 kph even tho' 3 secs ago you were diving at 600kph.
Befor the patch you could turn two or three times and have a second or third shot.
Those RADIATORS! even when the temp is back to normal they still dont close for ages.Its like trailing a drogue chute.

Tedious unoriginal philoshophical statement the pith of which is lost in repetition.

XyZspineZyX
09-24-2003, 09:18 PM
Radiators for all planes is being looked on for add-on...hopefully.Why doesnt anyone with the 1.2beta step foward and give us a clue.Jeez its not like we have been waiting for a couple of weeks for the final patch.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 01:46 AM
hehe,you said is right in some way. But PLS notice that, what the skill your online-enemy have.
If some good online-pilots in VVS's planes seat. i'm very sure you will take back your words.

XyZspineZyX
09-25-2003, 05:54 PM
Wolfstriked wrote:
- Why doesnt anyone with the
- 1.2beta step foward and give us a clue.

As if it would help. 1.2beta could be perfect in every respect, and 1.2final could still suck sweaty hairy donkey balls through a straw.
Just compare 1.1b and 1.11.


http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.jpg

prkl

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 04:36 AM
liking the g2 for the get in and fight thing which is great ,p39,la7 i love to blast up,up high got to with the g10, for THESE FAT UGLY 57,S LOL

XyZspineZyX
09-26-2003, 06:31 AM
Werre_ wrote:
-
- Wolfstriked wrote:
-- Why doesnt anyone with the
-- 1.2beta step foward and give us a clue.
-
- As if it would help. 1.2beta could be perfect in
- every respect, and 1.2final could still suck sweaty
- hairy donkey balls through a straw.
- Just compare 1.1b and 1.11.
-
-
-
<img
- src="http://sivusto.servepics.com/~lahnat/werre2s.
- jpg">
-
- prkl

Thats scary to think about!I mean the final so different than beta/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif