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Jagdklinger
01-19-2005, 01:22 AM
Paging all Soviet flyers!

Lately I have been flying VVS to 'expand my horizons'. There is something masochisticly compelling about flying into battle with two rifle-calibre MGs and as much cannon ammo as I can fit into the pockets of my shorts.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This is real slumming from a professed LW cannon-freak - there's nothing like cutting a B17 in halves with a single burst...)

A 109v190 LW thread got lots of great responses that were really informative, and I'm hoping for the same here, on the Soviet side - basically:

The La5/7 and the Yak3/9 series.
How do they match up, and how do you best fly them in the game?

(Maybe you fly AGAINST them regularly.... I'd love to hear your opinion too...)

Thanks!

PS: I keep seeing 'uber La7' posts but what about the Yak9U?

TheGozr
01-19-2005, 02:52 AM
Well. to fly a yak around is not very too difficult, to be good at it it's an other story but on a combat cituation it requirer a lot more hard work.

In the hands of a beginer they will very smooshy and unstable gunery.
To me, there is no better.

I think his worse ennemy is a good well piloted B/Z D9.


Check this link with yak's short video (http://www.french.themotorhead.com/il2/images/arts/gozrtestvideo.mov)
This smallquick time movie are made with some footages of real International Competitions not on regular server.

robban75
01-19-2005, 03:09 AM
My favourite VVS bird is the Yak-9U, let's face it, it's the only one that looks good! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

On a serious note, the best VVS bird is no doubt the La-7, whenever I fight against it, I know I have to be real careful, cause basically it can do everything I can do and do it better! What scares me the most about it, is its speed, acceleration and climb performance.

The Yak-3, although very manouverable, cannot reach high enough airspeeds to be really effective against a cautious LW flyer. However, a Yak-3 with altitude advantage is no joke. You better hope he didn't see you, so that you can run away!

The Yak-9U is a bigger threat IMO. Compared to the Yak-3 it's faster. And even though it doesn't turn nearly aswell, it's higher topspeed more than makes up for that! Climbing ability is very good, it outclimbs the D-9 from ground to 5000m. It's only weakness is high speed manouverability, something it shares with all other VVS fighters(apart from the La-7).

The La-5FN is a good fighter IMO, not nearly as good as the La-7 but it is up there with the Yak-3 and Yak-9U, although I would rate the Yak-9U as the better fighter!

Just my thoughts! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

PBNA-Boosher
01-19-2005, 05:02 AM
My favorite Russian planes to fly in this game are the Yaks, but especially the early Yaks like the 1b and early Yak-9 series. They look like a dream, have good overall acceleration, are excellent in maneuvers, and are generally quite forgiving. This does not mean they are a n00b plane by any chance, in fact to fly a Yak, especially an early Yak, well is a tough achievement. you have to keep it in a very small speed range, be quick with your guns, and very accurate. Overall, it's tough, but very rewarding.

I don't fly the Lavochkin's much. I prefer the challenge and the older designs.

For example, last night I shot down Fish in a P-40B when he was flying a 190D-9.

tigertalon
01-19-2005, 06:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jagdklinger:
Paging all Soviet flyers!

Lately I have been flying VVS to 'expand my horizons'. There is something masochisticly compelling about flying into battle with two rifle-calibre MGs and as much cannon ammo as I can fit into the pockets of my shorts.... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[This is real slumming from a professed LW cannon-freak - there's nothing like cutting a B17 in halves with a single burst...)

A 109v190 LW thread got lots of great responses that were really informative, and I'm hoping for the same here, on the Soviet side - basically:

The La5/7 and the Yak3/9 series.
How do they match up, and how do you best fly them in the game?

(Maybe you fly AGAINST them regularly.... I'd love to hear your opinion too...)

Thanks!

PS: I keep seeing 'uber La7' posts but what about the Yak9U? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

On line I usualy fly Bf109G2 and most fearsome opponent in my sight is Yak3. There is not a single thing I can do and he can't... I have no real idea how to fight it. On the other hand, any Russian fighter is put down quite easy if you are carefull with Fw190-D9. You just drag him up to at least 3000 meters, and La7's engine will behave like it has 800 instead of 1800 HP http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif. D-9 is a great opponent for all Russian fighters, but not down lo. La7 or Yak9U can kick your *** down there...

Heavy_Weather
01-19-2005, 06:38 AM
personally when im flying either one of these birds and come up against the opposite, I know its going to be a good fight. I much prefer the La-5FN version of the Lavochkin aircraft, the latter versions seem to heavy, especially in vertical fighting. the Yak-3 is light and fast and can turn inside almost anything. its good to stay above the Yak as much as possible. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

F19_Ob
01-19-2005, 07:04 AM
The earlier yaks are more sluggish than their later counterparts.
The performance depends mainly on wich 109 u pit it against.
Its a big differsence between 109e7 ,109f2 and 109g2.
they all met the early yaks but where the earlier 109's are close to early yaks, the 109 g2 can keep its energy better and thus have much better chances with a slow yak wich is close to flipping in scissoring for example and in those situations a G2 may just climb to get away or attack.

Later yaks vs later 109's are not the same matter although a 109 has more power than a yak3 and in higher speeds it can beat the yak.

But in mediumspeeds like in a furball the yak3 shines and it can keep this mediumspeed well in hard maneuvers and the sustained turn is better than the 109's.

Anyone not used to yak guns will find it difficult to aim and will run out of ammo before hitting anything.
The trick is to shoot short bursts and learn the deflection for it wich is totally different compared to a 109.
The yak guns fire rapidly and the rounds are fast on both cannon and mg's.
many real yakpilots have claimed the only 2 mg's so good that they really didnt need the cannon and it was possible to saw of a wing or a fuselage with relatively short bursts.
(same in the game.)
I have shot down 4 german fighters in one sortie with ammo to spare and friends I know of have shot down 6 or 7 in one sortie wich may sound incredible, but I was there.
So with short bursts the ammo is enough.
---------------------------------------

Pretty much the same goes for the La5 and La7.

Earliest La5 are pretty sluggish compared to La5fn .
And like the later yaks, the later La7 is a comparable and in some respects better alround performer than the 109 in most things exept perhaps highspeed dives.

a few thoughts

Lazy312
01-19-2005, 07:31 AM
La-5 and La-7 are now superior to all Yaks with the exception of Yak-3.

Lavochkin fighters can be used at all heights (common on Eastern front) as they have reasonable performace and handling there.

Most of Yaks are poor planes over some 3-4 kms as their handling quickly gets worse. Yak-3 is the exception.

I think Yaks are good for low alt dogfights, as they are pleasant to fly there and have good all around vision from cockpit.

TgD Thunderbolt56
01-19-2005, 08:56 AM
Don't forget the differences in rollrate also. The La's rollrate is lethargic compared to the Yaks especially at higher speeds.

The "standard" spiral-dive escape maneuver practiced by so many LW pilots is quite easy to counter in a Yak under 3k where the dive speeds are managable. The rollrate of the La's make target acquisition more difficult.

I love it when a FW pilot tries to loop to escape when I'm flying an La. The FW elevator has better response at high speeds, but the La responds better as energy is scrubbed at the top of the loop and variations of flaps are deployed. I've left more than a few pilots cursing on TS or ingame chat after looping inside their best effort. The Yak on the other hand has a tendency to drop a wing if the elevator is pulled with too much authority at times.

Bottom line still comes down to the pilot.

I find my "decisive" kills in a Yak are far fewer, but many times on the way home with no ammo I can get more than one "enemy aircraft destroyed" as they land their battered birds. Lots of high-deflection and short bursts make for fewer wings removed or engine fires, but the damage can be just as severe.

TB

TacticalYak3
01-19-2005, 10:28 AM
Valid points guys. Yes, Yaks have great flight characteristics but has limited ammo and can't afford to take hits. A Yak fighter that can take down 2-3 enemy planes in a sortie ought to be respected, as it demonstrates his accuracy and patience.

With regards to the La-7, I have always been impressed with its quick acceleration and energy retention.

Regards,
TactS!

Hydra444
01-19-2005, 10:43 AM
As for VVS a/c,I don't really fly many of the above mentioned.I usually fly the I-153.Although,I do hop in the La-5 every now and then.I have noticed though that many who fly the La-7 B20 seem to rely less on skill and more on their plane.This is not a slam,just an observation.IMO no Yak or La can compete with a pilot that is aware of whats goin on around him and is patient.A couple well placed burst under their bellies usually puts them down for good.
That being said,one would be a fool not to respect (even grudingly http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) what an La or Yak can do.

TacticalYak3
01-19-2005, 12:11 PM
Funny, but I think you just prove my point above mate. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

And really, we (including myself) often us the term "skill" when the reality is knowing the strengths and weaknesses of your plane and the enemy's and flying accordingly.

Furthermore, the so-called skill is really all the work constantly maintaining SA in the hopes of spotting the enemy plane before he ID's you. In the end the gifted pilots are often the one's who have worked the hardest - in flight and in "flight school."

Getting back to your statement with regards to Yaks and what not, this is why I believe folks are mistaken to dismiss the difficulty in DF in them. Yes they handle very well. Yes they will win in a turnfight, but what is a Bf doing in a turnfight anyway? (BF-109 G-2 decent though). At least a BF can take some hits and has an amazing ammo load if one is a lousy shooter.

Clearly the BF and FW are great fighters when using high-energy boom and zoom tactics. I personally have always found it easier to survive in a German plane, at least once I learnt what not to do.

I would suggest the truly good virtual pilots learn to fly their planes properly against the other, and do not bother to try and compare apples and oranges. Just my friendly thoughts on the matter mate.

Regards,
TactS!

Jagdklinger
01-19-2005, 04:49 PM
Thanks a lot guys!
(Although I am interested in WWII planes, what I know about Soviets would fit on the head of a pin...)

Basically, to summarise what has been said above:
They are both low alt tnB dogfighters (under3-4km); good handing, no real vices? - so try to sucker LW down low and slow?
La7 = good energy retention and acceleration; loops inside LW planes
La5 = inferior La7
Yak9 = lowest ammo, unstable gun platform, better agility
Yak3 = slower than 9U, best agility, also does OK above 3km

BTW - I'm not attempting to compare 'apples and oranges' to choose 'the best plane' - after all, LAs and Yaks fought the LW, not each other.* It's more a chance to get info on VVSs main fighters, and how to best fight them to their strengths. I.e., now I know BOTH are inferior above 3k, so I know to keep low....

Thanks again!

(and it's good to hear from 'the enemy' - as they are often the best judges of a plane...)

*Although I must confess I have since staged a few 8v8 Yak9U v La7 contests offline out of curiosity, and interestingly enough, the Yaks usually do better, despite the La's UFO 'gain energy in a climbing turn...'

TheGozr
01-19-2005, 05:41 PM
the la have been tuned down a lot since the UFO saga. UFO's are not those plane anymore
They stall quite rapidly.

Spit's and many others will qualified as UFO's.

Btw beware like i said a good pilots knowing his engine mix, radiators and props can do a lots of damages with a so called none high flying yak.
Like i said it's much more work than any other planes at those altitudes. It's NOT recommended to new commers.

Try Spit and 51's they are more friendly user.

VW-IceFire
01-19-2005, 06:38 PM
Basically the comparison of the ultimates sits like this. The Yak-3 is the best dogfighter but isn't fast enough and armament is good but duration of fire is very short so aim has to be very strict and precise. The Yak-9U is second fastest and the UT is extremely well armed (but still a short fire time). Its one of the best balanced fighters in game but many controls are still manual...new players can operate this one ok but only with some engine management skills. The La-7 is the best of the bunch being faster, better armed (generally), and tougher. But its not for everyone either. The Yak-9U is my favorite...and the Yak-9s in general are very versatile.

p1ngu666
01-19-2005, 08:39 PM
la7 is better than yak9, totaly.

that said, yak9 series are cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

they can do well against 109or190, and the 9 was the offensive yak, yak3 to short range, more defensive.

with the big cannon yaks, use 100metre cannon convergance (t,k,m)

try to avoid high alt stuff, yak is overly awful there, imo

oh and try and stay on the guys 6, poke him with the mg guns, often prove good enuff by themselves, oh and and u will need to setup supercharger stages (change at 1800mish) and fuel mix

and the B, is plain cool http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Sig.Hirsch
01-19-2005, 08:56 PM
My favorite is the Yak series too when i fly for the Soviets , very accurate plane , and not really for noobs , especially against skilled LW pilots .

La's have a poor rollrate compared to Yak and are less manoeuvrable , they have some good points over 5000 m tho , good elevator at high speed compared to Yaks , and better weapon .

I go for the Yaks when red, like i go for the 190 and 110 most of the time because it's more of a challenge .

oh btw
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> with the big cannon yaks, use 100metre cannon convergance (t,k,m) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P1ngu666 , Yaks have no weapons in the wings , so convergence is useless here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

N1ghtM8R
01-19-2005, 09:02 PM
lol..

WUAF_Badsight
01-19-2005, 10:00 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TheGozr:
the la have been tuned down a lot since the UFO saga. UFO's are not those plane anymore
They stall quite rapidly.

Spit's and many others will qualified as UFO's.

Try Spit and 51's they are more friendly user. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
total opposite to what actually happens in-game

VW-IceFire
01-19-2005, 10:25 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Sig.Hirsch:
My favorite is the Yak series too when i fly for the Soviets , very accurate plane , and not really for noobs , especially against skilled LW pilots .

La's have a poor rollrate compared to Yak and are less manoeuvrable , they have some good points over 5000 m tho , good elevator at high speed compared to Yaks , and better weapon .

I go for the Yaks when red, like i go for the 190 and 110 most of the time because it's more of a challenge .

oh btw
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> with the big cannon yaks, use 100metre cannon convergance (t,k,m) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

P1ngu666 , Yaks have no weapons in the wings , so convergence is useless here http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Convergence still comes into play...just in the vertical instead of horizontal. Pingu references 100m because if you have it set out longer, the shell gets lobbed higher so that at 300 meters it passes through the center of the crosshair. But that can be disconcerting when its a 37mm cannon.

Sig.Hirsch
01-20-2005, 06:01 AM
Oh ok , thank you for your answer Icefire , i was deeply convinced that convergence was about wing cannons , thanks mate for explanation, i didn't know it really http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

cheers,

TacticalYak3
01-20-2005, 06:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jagdklinger:
Although I must confess I have since staged a few 8v8 Yak9U v La7 contests offline out of curiosity, and interestingly enough, the Yaks usually do better, despite the La's UFO 'gain energy in a climbing turn...' <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One must always keep in mind that regardless of the difficulty setting, the AI will always basicially turnfight offline. The Yak-3 is a better turnfighter. Furthermore, if you do select Ace then the AI will perform some rather amazing turns and twists, which again would favour the Yak-3.

While one doesn't want to be on the defensive, I have enjoyed evading my "predator" given the roll rate and maneuverability of this little "target."

Regards

WUAF_Darkangel
01-20-2005, 06:56 AM
I think the La-7 still has superior level flight acceleration and sustained climb, turn over the yak3 like in the previos versions of the game. But then Oleg could have changed its FM significantly in all those patches.

robban75
01-20-2005, 07:21 AM
The La-7 as it is modelled leaves the Yak-3 in the dust in climb, acceleration and speed. Be sure! The only VVS bird that equals the La-7 is the I-185(the way it is modelled).

p1ngu666
01-20-2005, 10:19 AM
a i185 out turned my zero 5b several times at low speeds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

played on server that had no spins or something, i185 out turns ki43 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif

p1ngu666
01-20-2005, 10:20 AM
the convergance does effect the vertical, anyways its just going for what feels "best" for u

robban75
01-20-2005, 10:34 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
a i185 out turned my zero 5b several times at low speeds http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-indifferent.gif

played on server that had no spins or something, i185 out turns ki43 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/51.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The I-185 has a lovely external 3D model aswell as an outstanding cockpit! But that's were the positive ends with this plane I'm afraid. It's not historically correct in any performance aspect. When it comes to turning in RL, the I-185 had the same turntime as a Fw 190D.

JtD
01-20-2005, 11:35 AM
I think the Yak-1 and LaGG-3S4 are quite similar in overall perfomance, the Yak-9 and 1b slightly better than the S29 and S35, the S66 pulls ahead of all contemporary Yak's as do La-5 and follow ups.

For my speed is the most important factor. In comparism with their German counterparts the Yak's rarely have any speed advantage, while the La's do. This gives them at least one advantage over the Germans, while the Yak has none except sutained turn against a 190. But there hardly are any turnfights against 190's.

I rate all Soviet fighters inferior to their German contemporaries because they need to much time to win a fight. It's mostly impossible to successfully B'n'Z with them, as they all lack high speed handling and firepower.