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View Full Version : TIR4 vs TIR2..... OooOOoOoooooooo



Bearcat99
05-11-2007, 11:21 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

I just got a TIR4 this week. Unfortunately I have been busting my chops at work and I just got the chance to try it out tonight and I must say... it is a great improvement. TIR 4 is to TIR2 what TIR 1 & 2 were to the mouse pan.

I don't know how 3 was.. and I haven't even had the chance to try the pro clip.... I just used the hat reflector tigamabob that comes with 4... but the difference is .... very noticeable. The programming is easier... the panning is smoother... and the images are much clearer.. I cant explain it.. but it seems as if I loose less in the resolution with the 4 than I did with the 2... does that make sense? I didn't understand what they meant when they said that TIR 4 had better resolution.. but now I do. It is much more natural in feel than 2 was... and I am glad that I made the investment since I had to put off my 22" LCD..(I decided I wanted at least a 24 anyway.. so I am saving more bread... http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif ) I get less jitter and I cant wait to try this out on something with 6DoF.

FE_pilot
05-11-2007, 11:42 PM
Bearcat99 check your PM's.

JG52Uther
05-12-2007, 02:57 AM
Thanks for the info BC.This should be the first upgrade I make for BoB.

WWSpinDry
05-12-2007, 08:42 AM
I made the same upgrade, Bearcat, and yeah, I completely understand where you're coming from. Everything is smoother and more natural-feeling, and the new software is great. I especially like being able to shift my head (vice turning) and not have the TIR interpret it as a head turn. When KotS comes out (BoB? What's that? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif) I'll be all set.

Yskonyn23
05-12-2007, 08:48 AM
Hey Bearcat,
Glad you're enjoying your TIR 4. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif I am also using the tripod thingy included in the box and it works perfectly. I can't see why I would get a trackclip. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/sleepzzz.gif

Anyway the thing with resolution as far as I understand has to do with refreshrate in the TIR itself being increased over previous products and the scan resolution increased.

I find it hard to see why your in-game images would be crisper when using a TIR 4.
It has no relation whatsoever with your videocard or monitor. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/354.gif

But correct me if I have misunderstood you. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 09:17 AM
Maybe it is because the image itself is more stable... less jitter in the TIR.... I got the track clip because it seemed like a good idea at the time... but the tripod works great. I probably wont even use the clip till I get something with 6DoF. I heard that the clip was more stable.

crazyivan1970
05-12-2007, 09:32 AM
I was curious about this... i had TIR original and did not like it. Needless to say that my PC of that time couldnt handle vsync on. My wife wanted to get me something nice for fathers day... that just maybe it. Thanks for heads up BC http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Divine-Wind
05-12-2007, 10:53 AM
TIR will dramatically increase the immersion, and with a HOTAS it's really great.

Once you get used to it, it's almost impossible to go back. I'll find myself turning my head automatically to track something even though I don't have TrackIR on.

Yskonyn23
05-12-2007, 11:28 AM
Originally posted by Divine-Wind:
I'll find myself turning my head automatically to track something even though I don't have TrackIR on.

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif me too!

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 11:59 AM
I find myself doing that watching tracks... LOL..

Yeah Ivan... mind you TIR2 was great... but 4 is a no brainer.... it is that good and worth every penny. If you get just the unit that works well too.... I had the original as well and sent it back.... then @ a year later I got 2... but I had a hard timer with it so basically for a while just used it to scan the sky and my gauges... then I finally managed to get a decent profile.

horseback
05-12-2007, 01:58 PM
I've had TIR1, 3, & 4. TIR1 was a no go for me, and it ended up being donated to a lady with MS (Brownie points with God, y'know), who has found it quite useful.

I liked TIR3 quite a bit (still have a bunch of reflector dots), and when TIR4/hatclip came out with 6DOF built in, once the forum reviews came out, I decided it would be a good investment, and boy, was it ever! I'm quite satisfied, and since my kids (who use the living room rig with TIR3) never get to use it, they don't know what they're missing...

cheers

horseback

Widowmaker214
05-12-2007, 03:04 PM
My buddy has TIR2 and doesn't like it that much. Im trying to talk him into upgrading to TIR4 because of the improvements. usually he flys with the POV.. and.. I could never do that again..ever. Did I mention.. EVER!

If my hotas or TIR breaks.. Im grounded. I cannot fly without my cougar/rudders or my TIR4... they are all essential gear now.

It would be like flying with a logitech wingman joystick and 13" monocrome monitor. Pointless.

ElAurens
05-12-2007, 04:33 PM
Been using TIR4 and the Pro Clip for some time now.

I'll never go back to switch controlled views, and because of the Pro Clip, no more hat on in the house.

I consider both to be essential kit now.

crazyivan1970
05-12-2007, 04:36 PM
rgrt EL, that`s exactly what i am getting....TIR4+Clip combo.

Bearcat99
05-12-2007, 10:44 PM
Yeah thats what I have.. I just havent set up the clip yet....

Dagnabit
05-12-2007, 11:23 PM
Dang!!!,
There goes my budget! But ya cant take it with ya.
I guess Ill have to make the move soon. Going to look into it some more first though. You guys got me going now. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Regards
Dag

papotex
05-13-2007, 12:46 AM
My first TIR was the 4 pro and i didnt believe in spending any money on that particular gear but i can say it is a must. ones you tweak your profile to perfection looking around with your head becomes as natural as handling your plane with the joystick.

right now i use the clip that came in the package and it works flawlesly.

im about 5 feet away from the monitor and it moves stuningly natural.

Yskonyn23
05-13-2007, 03:56 AM
Maybe it cool to share some profiles?
I am playing on the default profile and it works. I have only disabled the Roll and the X,Y,Z movements as IL doesn't feature this anyway.

EiZ0N
05-13-2007, 07:13 AM
I've never used a TIR. However, when they say "Higher resolution" I assume that must mean one of two things:

1) The device they use to detect your head orientation is more accurate
2) The speed (i.e. how many times per second) your head is tracked has increased.

TIR is interesting, but I'm put off for two reasons:

1) Moving my head around whilst keeping my eyes in the same place tends to give me eye strain
2) I think my friends would realise that I'm a bit too into this game http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

papotex
05-13-2007, 08:23 AM
Eizon i use to think the same thing about eye strain but that is just not the case.

the range my head has to move so i can look ALL THE WAY up/down and to the sides(to look over my shoulder to check six) is about the same range you head has to move to look straigh in to the four courners of your monitor, and if you are 4 or five feet away from it becomes totally efortless. it is more efort to pan view around with the mouse or using the joy hat switch with your thumb.

ones you get use to using TIR its as natural as
flying the plane with your joystick BUT you have incresed your sence of inmersion tenfold

and thats not even mentioning that games today
are coming with TIR support. i was just trying a demo of a formula 1 racing sim with full six degress of freedom(6dof) wich means i can not only move my head up/down (Y axis) and left to right(X axis) but i get to have 4 more axis of head movement including being able to slide my head to the side to get my head out of the window of my ride, and is all very natural.

Yskonyn23
05-13-2007, 11:00 AM
Originally posted by papotex:
i was just trying a demo of a formula 1 racing sim with full six degress of freedom(6dof) wich means i can not only move my head up/down (Y axis) and left to right(X axis) but i get to have 4 more axis of head movement including being able to slide my head to the side to get my head out of the window of my ride, and is all very natural.

True although for some reason most racers drop significantly in performance while using the TIR... http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
GTR 2, RACE-WTCC are both games which I can't play comfortably with TIR enabled.

ElAurens
05-13-2007, 02:04 PM
This is simply a case where making the sim more realistic actually gives a more realistic performance, hence lower lap times.

guitarman1968
05-13-2007, 03:35 PM
Is it worth upgrading from tir3 to 4,is there any real difference.

Bearcat99
05-13-2007, 05:00 PM
That I cannot say... if I had a TIR3 I probably would not have upgraded... I upgraded because TIR2 is not supported anymore.... and it can never get 6DoF....

MrMojok
05-13-2007, 08:42 PM
I was thinking of getting this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DCRHA/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3788863-3910509?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3SADG0O481KCK&colid=2CK94NFHQBQY8) and this. (http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackClip-PRO.html)

I have a couple of questions though. Do you guys listen to the game sounds through your pc speakers and the teamspeak through the headphones, or both through the headphones, or what? I think I read some posts where someone said they used both the pc speakers and headphones, but I know once I plug in a set of headphones into my computer, from that point on no more sound comes from the speakers.

Also, on my X52 I use one button for 'gunsight view'.. it also doubles as a sort of zoom, in the sense that I can spot a dot at 10 o'clock, pan that way and hit the same button and it just zooms in for a closer look. I also use a button on the joystick to snap the view straight back forward. Can I still do this with TrackIR, is it complicated to set up?

ElAurens
05-13-2007, 08:56 PM
I have gunsight and zoom controls mapped to my stick, they work perfectly well with TIR4.

I also have a Sennheiser headset, although I've never seen a noise cancelling one. Purchased my PC 150 (non noise cancelling) from newegg for a lot less than $51. I cannot use speakers and headset at the same time either. NO big problem. The guys that I know that do that usualy have feedback problems anyway, so I'd say leave the speakers off when using teamspeak.

papotex
05-14-2007, 12:22 AM
Yskonyn23 im sory to hear that, i guess i dont notice any performance drop with TIR because i have a fast computer, but if i try using TIR with my laptop, performance does drop with a game that works fine otherwise.

the computer i use with TIR just fine is a P4 3.6 EE with 2 gigs ram and an ATIx850xt

Yskonyn23
05-14-2007, 04:07 AM
I haven't checked on my current rig (see sig), but on my previous P4 2.4Ghz, 1GB and a 6600GT vidcard it wouldn't work.


Previously posted by ElAurens:
This is simply a case where making the sim more realistic actually gives a more realistic performance, hence lower lap times.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif If it was that, yes.

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-14-2007, 07:45 AM
TIR4 vs TIR2..... OooOOoOoooooooo


Told ya so...n00b. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Worf101
05-14-2007, 08:03 AM
Originally posted by TgD Thunderbolt56:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">TIR4 vs TIR2..... OooOOoOoooooooo


Told ya so...n00b. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Bearcat I'll hold em and you can hit em!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/59.gif

MrMojok
05-14-2007, 07:50 PM
I have another, and probably stupider question.

I know the little trackir sensor sits on top of the monitor, and plugs into a usb slot on the computer.

The new trackclip you wear on your headphones... the clip goes on the left side of your headphones, right above the left earmuff. How is it powered? Is it also a usb cable? How long is its cord?

BaldieJr
05-14-2007, 08:52 PM
I would expect it uses aaa batteries instead of usb. Everything needs batteries nowadays.

ElAurens
05-14-2007, 09:06 PM
Negative.

It is USB and has a pass through type connector that the projector/reciever unit also plugs into. It's cord is quite long and is no more intrusive than your headset cable.

You will have to move the reciever to the left to match the position of the Track Clip Pro.

Another benefit is that if using the Pro the monitor top unit is a pure reciever, it emits no IR.

TgD Thunderbolt56
05-15-2007, 05:54 AM
Been around all this time and thought I knew more than I do. I didn't know that the track clip pro was an active emitter. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

I may have to look into this further...though I really like my current setup, TIR3 Pro w/vector clip (and of course the waaaay cool track hat).

Guess I'm the n00b. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/blink.gif

stathem
05-15-2007, 06:28 AM
Originally posted by ElAurens:
I have gunsight and zoom controls mapped to my stick, they work perfectly well with TIR4.

I also have a Sennheiser headset, although I've never seen a noise cancelling one. Purchased my PC 150 (non noise cancelling) from newegg for a lot less than $51. I cannot use speakers and headset at the same time either. NO big problem. The guys that I know that do that usualy have feedback problems anyway, so I'd say leave the speakers off when using teamspeak.

Isn't 'noise cancelling' to do with the microphone? I recently got a set of PC130 with a noise cancelling mic, and found them very impressive. (mind you compared to the 10 set I had before they would be.)

Was going to order the PC160 but had a rush of blood when I saw the PC130 in the flesh.

Bearcat99
05-15-2007, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by guitarman1968:
Is it worth upgrading from tir3 to 4,is there any real difference.

I am surprised Worf missed this... according to him (he upgraded from 3 to 4) the difference is pretty noticeable.

I know for me last night I was flying and I didnt even realize that not only was the cieling light on above me but the one behind me at the foot of the stairs was also on and the laundry room door was also open.. and that light was on as well... with TIR 2 the cieling light alone would have had me looking permanently for loose change in the floor of my cockpit till the lighyt was turned off. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif



Originally posted by MrMojok:
I was thinking of getting this (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0000DCRHA/ref=wl_it_dp/102-3788863-3910509?ie=UTF8&coliid=I3SADG0O481KCK&colid=2CK94NFHQBQY8) and this. (http://naturalpoint.com/trackir/02-products/product-TrackClip-PRO.html)

I have a couple of questions though. Do you guys listen to the game sounds through your pc speakers and the teamspeak through the headphones, or both through the headphones, or what? I think I read some posts where someone said they used both the pc speakers and headphones, but I know once I plug in a set of headphones into my computer, from that point on no more sound comes from the speakers.

Also, on my X52 I use one button for 'gunsight view'.. it also doubles as a sort of zoom, in the sense that I can spot a dot at 10 o'clock, pan that way and hit the same button and it just zooms in for a closer look. I also use a button on the joystick to snap the view straight back forward. Can I still do this with TrackIR, is it complicated to set up?

I couldn't see the second link. As for the comms issue. The thing is you must have a USB headset in order to get comms in the headset and the sim through the speakers. Either that or two sound sources.. like say.. if you have a sound card and onboard sound.. you can assign the headset to on and the sim to the other. Thats how the USB works.... windows sees the headset as a sepera6te sound source. Go to Control Panel>Sounds, Speech, and Audio Devices> click the audio tab and set the sound playback default device to the sound card. Then when you go into TS set your TS and click Settings>Options>and set your input & output devices accordingly. I run comms through the headset and thats all I really use my headset for so I didnt need a fancy expensive set. I actually went to Best Buy and bought http://images.bestbuy.com/BestBuy_US/images/products/7650/7650491_ra.jpg (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=7650491&type=product&productCategoryId=pcmcat110000050028&id=1134699426728)
this

I like this headset in particular because the USB adapter is like a flash drive that has two mini RCA inputs for the headset & mic so if say the headset should die you dont have to spend another $40.. you can get an inexpensive replacement and plug it into the USB adapter and still have a working headset.

NP_Vincent
05-15-2007, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by MrMojok:
I have another, and probably stupider question.

I know the little trackir sensor sits on top of the monitor, and plugs into a usb slot on the computer.

The new trackclip you wear on your headphones... the clip goes on the left side of your headphones, right above the left earmuff. How is it powered? Is it also a usb cable? How long is its cord?

Cable is 6ft. long.

MarkGos
05-15-2007, 09:34 PM
I've just finished ordering my TrackIR 4 & Pro Clip bundle. Now that I have a decent rig my old TrackIR 1 worked OK but would have moments of looking for Bearcats change on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

It's taken me this long to stash the TIR4 money away from she who must be obeyed and her legion of pre-teen money absorbers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Looking forward to a much better immersion experience. I assume 1946 doesnt support 6DOF but SOW:BOB will ?

Goz

Bearcat99
05-15-2007, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by MarkGos:
I've just finished ordering my TrackIR 4 & Pro Clip bundle. Now that I have a decent rig my old TrackIR 1 worked OK but would have moments of looking for Bearcats change on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

It's taken me this long to stash the TIR4 money away from she who must be obeyed and her legion of pre-teen money absorbers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Looking forward to a much better immersion experience. I assume 1946 doesnt support 6DOF but SOW:BOB will ?
Goz

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/11.gif

Worf101
05-16-2007, 09:27 AM
I NEVAH could get TIR3 to work right. I had a bad one. NaturalPoint was great in that they RMA'd me a new one and for the price diff, I got a TIR4. It's one amazing piece of kit. I love it. It's superior to the 3 in the following ways:

1. Far less sensitive to other "stray" light sources.

2. The receiver module is smaller, lighter and MUCH easier to place and keep ontop of LCD's.

3. Wider field of reception. Just feels better and smoother.

4. No more slow downs. With the 3-Pro, the heads would slow down "get mushy" after about 15 minutes of flying requiring a shut down and restart of TrackIr. No more. Now this suckah just runs and runs and runs. I love it.

I will be getting the track clip sooner or later. Is naturalpoint the "cheapest" place to get this add-on?

Da Worfster

papotex
05-16-2007, 02:51 PM
man i dont know how come people with trackiR4
wich comes with the HATclip want to spend money on that new trackclip with LEDs

my HATclip works flawlessly and i have a television behind me that's ON most of the time.

if someone is having problems with losing track
because of intrusive light sources, make sure check the track IR software, there are some tweaks in there for such problem.

Its just that mine works so well i dont know how people has problems.

theres a little trick you can try, angle the sensor on top of your monitor so is looking down a bit.
Low enough so it picks up your clip but it dosnt scan any space above your head

NP_Vincent
05-17-2007, 12:27 PM
Originally posted by MarkGos:
I've just finished ordering my TrackIR 4 & Pro Clip bundle. Now that I have a decent rig my old TrackIR 1 worked OK but would have moments of looking for Bearcats change on the floor http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif.

It's taken me this long to stash the TIR4 money away from she who must be obeyed and her legion of pre-teen money absorbers. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif

Looking forward to a much better immersion experience. I assume 1946 doesnt support 6DOF but SOW:BOB will ?

Goz

Correct SOW for 6DOF support

NP_Vincent
05-17-2007, 12:30 PM
Originally posted by papotex:
man i dont know how come people with trackiR4
wich comes with the HATclip want to spend money on that new trackclip with LEDs

my HATclip works flawlessly and i have a television behind me that's ON most of the time.

if someone is having problems with losing track
because of intrusive light sources, make sure check the track IR software, there are some tweaks in there for such problem.

Its just that mine works so well i dont know how people has problems.

theres a little trick you can try, angle the sensor on top of your monitor so is looking down a bit.
Low enough so it picks up your clip but it dosnt scan any space above your head

One thing is that people don't want to wear a haed, and the Clip Pro, is very easy to attach and use on a headset.....

papotex
05-18-2007, 12:39 AM
ditto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
outstanding product by the way

while we are here, question:
i was looking for a specific carracing sim called TOCA RACING 3 but didnt see it at natural point list of supported race sims,
i saw TOCA2. is TOCA3 supported?

crazyivan1970
05-18-2007, 10:31 AM
Ok BC, i ordered it this morning... TIR4+Clip

it better be good or i`ll come after you!! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/crackwhip.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif

Bearcat99
05-18-2007, 03:04 PM
If you dont like it you can hunt me down at M.A.A.M. ...LOL.. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/winky.gif

I am wondering if it is so much mores stable in 456 because 46 doesnt have 6DoF... I'll find out once myh FSX & WoV gets here.

crazyivan1970
05-18-2007, 03:13 PM
I have FSX, will give that one shot. I might even get GTR2 to get the 6DOF experiance hehe

NP_Vincent
05-18-2007, 03:23 PM
Originally posted by papotex:
ditto http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
outstanding product by the way

while we are here, question:
i was looking for a specific carracing sim called TOCA RACING 3 but didnt see it at natural point list of supported race sims,
i saw TOCA2. is TOCA3 supported?

Toca 3 - no support....

ElAurens
05-18-2007, 03:40 PM
6Dof works well in GTR2 Ivan. there are a few modelling issues woth the vehicle interiors (rear quarter views) but it's so cool to lean or move your head towards the dash and have the instruments get closer. Really helps situational awareness in traffic as well.

Hiriyu
05-18-2007, 11:34 PM
Ivan, you will LOVE TIR4. You will have no need to hunt down BC. Be sure.

I use mine in online and offline rFactor, GTR, GTR2 and GTL races too - works a treat.

Bearcat99
05-19-2007, 07:50 AM
Maybe he'll buy me a beer...LOL