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GunnDawg09
05-12-2009, 11:15 PM
So I am playing some campaign missions, and it seems no matter what plane the mission requires us to fly, not long after take off my squad gets away from me, and continues to do so rather quickly. This is becoming very annoying as I'd like to fly in formation with them to our target/mission.

Am I doing something wrong? I checked the flaps and made sure they were raised, made sure I wasn't forgetting my gear. I cant think of anything else that would allow them to just rocket ahead of me.

GunnDawg09
05-12-2009, 11:15 PM
So I am playing some campaign missions, and it seems no matter what plane the mission requires us to fly, not long after take off my squad gets away from me, and continues to do so rather quickly. This is becoming very annoying as I'd like to fly in formation with them to our target/mission.

Am I doing something wrong? I checked the flaps and made sure they were raised, made sure I wasn't forgetting my gear. I cant think of anything else that would allow them to just rocket ahead of me.

WTE_Galway
05-12-2009, 11:40 PM
Trim correctly and then concentrate on catching up with them horizontally rather than gaining height quickly.

Basically you need to do a cruise climb gradually gaining height rather than trying to both catch up and get to the same altitude as them simultaneously.

GunnDawg09
05-12-2009, 11:49 PM
But I am not trying to gain the same altitude as them, I fly with a 0 VA (vertical attitude) and they still pull on me.

Buzzsaw-
05-13-2009, 12:24 AM
Salute

This is one of the most common complaints against the AI in IL-2.

They cheat in climbs.

There is a simple solution.

Put your aircraft in auto until the Squadron has climbed to altitude, then switch back to manual control. You will be able to keep up with them in level flight.

As was mentioned, you also need to make sure your aircraft is properly trimmed. Make sure your rudder and elevator are properly trimmed so you can fly straight and level, hands off.

GunnDawg09
05-13-2009, 01:20 AM
I dont see how trimming it would help, I like to fly it my self, so I NEVER trim. I prefer to fly. Still doesnt explain how they get away from me so fast, its kinda game breaking to me.

WTE_Galway
05-13-2009, 01:27 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GunnDawg09:
I dont see how trimming it would help, I like to fly it my self, so I NEVER trim. I prefer to fly. Still doesnt explain how they get away from me so fast, its kinda game breaking to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

we are talking about trim here not autopilot - in real aircraft you always trim continually so its not as if using trim is unrealistic or a cheat

in IL2 the aircraft seem very sensitive to minor control variations and a well trimmed plane always performs noticeably better than one where the pilot attempts to correct using the stick and rudder

also make sure you always keep the ball centered with rudder at all times, uncoordinated flight will really trash your climb performance

three possible reasons why the AI tend to outperform humans on sustained climbs ...

-- the ai does not overheat (nor does a human plane on autopilot)

-- ai aircraft are always in perfect trim

-- ai always fly co-ordinated with no yaw

GunnDawg09
05-13-2009, 01:41 AM
you guys keep thinking I am trying to catch up to them during a "climb", which is not the case. Its when we are all leveled out, no one is climbing, I am not climbing, and my wingmen are not climbing. NO ONE is climbing.

Now that is cleared up(I hope), is there anything else I should check?

rnzoli
05-13-2009, 03:32 AM
You covered:
- flaps
- gear

Others covered:
- trim
- slideslip

I suggest in addition:
- throttle forward (couldn't resist sorry http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif but maybe a wrong calibration of your stick)
- engage WEP (although only AI aces use it)
- prop pitch 100% (RPMs above 2000)
- airbrakes retracted (depends on what aircraft do you fly).

TinyTim
05-13-2009, 03:44 AM
Like Buzzsaw already said - AI cheats. Big time. Yeah, one of the drawbacks of the sim that we all needed to accept. So, given you chcked all the obvious stuff (flaps, throttle etc) whenever you can't catch up with them just turn the autopilot on (which is essentially the same as an AI) until you are lined up, and fly from there on.

May I suggest flying online with other human pilots where noone has this kind of unfair advantage. Chatting with other pilots on TeamSpeak only contributes to immersion.

Tully__
05-13-2009, 03:58 AM
Even in level flight being properly trimmed will dramatically improve your speed.

AllorNothing117
05-13-2009, 04:08 AM
Hey dude, common topic you've stumbled across here, hence the varried if a little irrelevent advice. Gateway said it all realy but I'll re-iterate. When flying, the only way to get maximum performance is to be perfectly trimed (i.e. if you let go of the stick nothing would change) and to have the slip ball in the middle (your plane is flying directly forward, not at an angle) The AI can do this 100% prefect 100% of the time. They can also do it instantly (i.e. it doesn't take them time to adjust and get the plane flying like this, it just always is). Watch a few tracks from the AI perspective and you'll see what I mean. They fly im PERFECT straight lines, better than any human could do. Watch them land thats hillarious... They will offten/always aproach the runway at quiet a harsh angle then sudenly turn perfectly in line with it, hard to describe but you'll get what I mean when you watch it. Point is there planes will always be faster becasue they will never be slowed by things like slightly off trim, or having to make slight corrections. That coupled with the fact that their engines never overheat means that they can fly to an objective on full throttle and full pitch and rads closed for an infinant amount of time AND perfectly trimmed... A plane flying like this is ALLOT faster than one that isn't, i.e. us humans http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Personaly, when I play a campaign I always select the highest rank, so that the AI have to follow me instead of me following them. If I make a mission I make sure that their waypoint speeds are nice and slow so I can keep up http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif It's a tad annoying and it does make campaigns you havenb't played before that little but harder, oh and god only knows how you do a campaign like this without the waypoint minimap path on... But allot of campaingn designers do take this into acount and make sure that the planes are travleing slower/climbing steadly. Olegs campaigns (the ones that come with the game) tend to be the worst for this I'm affriad (sorry Oleg!) I recomend downloading some that other people have made, allot of the folks on this Forum have made some, hell I'm even trying it. My Dad (Deskpilot) just downloaded 2 campaigns that IceFire made and I will be checking them out later http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Choctaw111
05-13-2009, 06:40 AM
It is frustrating I know.
The AI has different physics than you have for what consolation that may give you.

norton1974
05-13-2009, 07:24 AM
Hi Gunn,
Trimming the plane will help the most for this problem however i have read other posts from guys who have this problem even when they do trim well, i could not find those post at this time.
You said you like to fly the plane yourself, triming does not mean that you are not flying the plane, it means that you are flying the plane better as it is necesary to trim. If you use the stick to fly level the control surface is larger than the trim surface and the drag from the larger surface will slow you down. The best pilots are the ones that can trim well.
Hope this helps as this had to be explained to me when i started flying and with practice i can now keep up pretty well with the AI.

DuxCorvan
05-13-2009, 07:54 AM
AI cheats.

By perfect performance, etc. you can only barely fly with them in cruise. But the moment an anemy is spotted, believe me, they'll go all roadrunner making "beep-beep" and will let you behind in a spectacular and frustratingly immersion-breaking zoom. There's nothing you can do, but praising the guys who decided that, to make things harder and give silly AI a chance, it was easier and cheaper not to make a better AI, but allowing it to do alien things.

Swivet
05-13-2009, 11:36 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GunnDawg09:
So I am playing some campaign missions, and it seems no matter what plane the mission requires us to fly, not long after take off my squad gets away from me, and continues to do so rather quickly. This is becoming very annoying as I'd like to fly in formation with them to our target/mission.

Am I doing something wrong? I checked the flaps and made sure they were raised, made sure I wasn't forgetting my gear. I cant think of anything else that would allow them to just rocket ahead of me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Engine management, prop pitch, fuel mixture, trim. Or tell your squaddies to slow down! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Bobbo_Tabor
05-13-2009, 11:51 AM
It might be the AI planes are set up to run at 50% full and your plane is loaded at 100%.

You can always go and edit the campaign mission in the full mission builder so the flight flies at cruise speed and not max speed. Better yet mod it so you are the flight leader and don't have to take no AI nonsense.

Xiolablu3
05-13-2009, 12:23 PM
Its wierd I have never ever had this problem in any type of plane. I am always well ahead of my squad if I want to be.

All we can think is that its either a bug in some peoples installs of the game or its their piloting style.

FoolTrottel
05-13-2009, 12:31 PM
A lot will depend on the mission builder... whether he's taken speed into account.

If one just puts some waypoints on the map, chances are AI will just go flat out... and keep on going...

In a well planned mission, there will be none of that... (Except for scramble missions maybe)

alphalvr
05-13-2009, 12:50 PM
im pretty new to this myself and experienced the exact same thing as your asking about.

this forum advised me to trim my plane and gain distance before height and this worked for me.

the other thing i do is take off as soon as i possibly can after the plane in front which also helps a tiny bit.

funny thing is once i catch them they actually seem to be going quite bloomin slow and i overshoot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

Xiolablu3
05-13-2009, 01:36 PM
ANother tip is to put your rank up high when you start, then your flight will follow you as you are the leader.

However it really is very possible to easily keep up with your flight as a lowly pilot. Just try and tweak your flying style like alphalvr said http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

VW-IceFire
05-13-2009, 04:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by GunnDawg09:
I dont see how trimming it would help, I like to fly it my self, so I NEVER trim. I prefer to fly. Still doesnt explain how they get away from me so fast, its kinda game breaking to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Trim makes your plane more efficient...particularly when you use rudder trim to counter torque. Small amounts of rudder trim are more efficient and less disruptive to the airflow than moving the control surfaces yourself. Its not like manually driving a car...trim is essential to flying.

The AI trims perfectly and manges their engine settings perfectly. If you're good then its no problem to keep up with them. But if not then you'll have problems...right now you're not flying as fast as you could be.

Many people don't believe this until they go online and try formation flying with another human pilot or they participate in some air racing. Everyone is flying the same plane with the exact same configuration....and yet some people still pull away. Reason? They trim better, they manage their engine settings better, and the last one is a hard one to grasp ...but they handle the plane better. Smooth inputs and both deliberate and precise movements mean that even if you do the technical part right...you have to handle it right as well or you won't be as fast.

The AI does to some extent cheat....but you can still keep up.

Also it sounds like you're trying everything including flying at low altitude and trying to use speed to catch up....but that won't work in most cases because the air at low altitudes is thicker so once the altitude gap widens they will begin to go much faster.

M_Gunz
05-13-2009, 06:03 PM
There is at least one mission where you won't be keeping up. We've been trolled on that one before.

But the majority by far of missions, just flying properly and not even perfect you should be able to catch your flight
and have to slow down to avoid leaving them behind. Most missions have the flight cruising at low to middle cruise,
the AI doesn't fly any faster so there's no problem with super-AI leaving you behind. ONLY on rare missions is it full
bore out to target and I do mean rare.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I cant think of anything else that would allow them to just rocket ahead of me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You run with poor trim makes you slower. You fly with slip and it's even worse.
There's the old tried and true flying nose-high that's also as bad or worse than reasonable slip as well.
What's left? Radiator flaps full open? Cockpit open?
As above, is you throttle calibration off so you don't get full throttle? Add to that your other stick axes, are they
working right?

As long as you're not trolling on some special condition or situation, that's all there is.

WTE_Galway
05-13-2009, 06:14 PM
just a thought .. what version of the game do you fly ???

this problem was much worse back around the time of Pacific Fighters ..