PDA

View Full Version : Now I get an idea on what a nightmare Stalingrad must have been



XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 07:09 AM
I saw the Stalingrad movie, I read a little book called Night Witches by Bruce Myles, I did the Luftwaffe Campaign on the Original IL-2, and now I just completed a scenario about the begining of Operation Uranus which was about leading a Sturmovik attack on Pitomnik Airfield in the Bomber Campaign.

Pitomnik was the last Airfield in German hands to fall in Stalingrad and it was full of wounded people and Ju-52 or Me-323 Transports flying supplies in and wounded people or essential personnal out, I gotta admitt in all honnesty that I enjoyed performing that massacre.

There were 4 Ju-52 Transports trying to escape the airfield when I was leading the attack, as soon as they were taking off I shot them down, the flak was rabid though and there were a bunch of BF-109 trying to defend the airfield but my escorts took most of them down while I trashed one of them myself.

As soon as I landed at my base with a promotion for this massacre I realised why the Germans had called the Sturmoviks "Black Death", the Soviets really were ruthless the way they fought their battles, bombing the ennemy around the clock to deprive them of sleep, shooting down Medical Transports trying to escape from the battlefield, bombing a place full of wounded and starved people even though they were ennemy soldiers, add the intense cold to that mix and you get a real nightmarish situation.

Depriving an ennemy of sleep has a very interesting side effect, according to my Neurologist if a human being doesn't get any sleep what so ever during at least 3 days in a row, it can cause brain damage, epilepsy, seizure attacks or even insanity on the victim, it was a very common torture used by the NKVD as I have heard, they often would drive their victims to insanity by depriving of sleep and when the time would be right they would put them in a psychiatric hospital where they would spend the rest of their lives, it was the fate of many NKVD victims that killing would be too dangerous on the political level.

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 07:09 AM
I saw the Stalingrad movie, I read a little book called Night Witches by Bruce Myles, I did the Luftwaffe Campaign on the Original IL-2, and now I just completed a scenario about the begining of Operation Uranus which was about leading a Sturmovik attack on Pitomnik Airfield in the Bomber Campaign.

Pitomnik was the last Airfield in German hands to fall in Stalingrad and it was full of wounded people and Ju-52 or Me-323 Transports flying supplies in and wounded people or essential personnal out, I gotta admitt in all honnesty that I enjoyed performing that massacre.

There were 4 Ju-52 Transports trying to escape the airfield when I was leading the attack, as soon as they were taking off I shot them down, the flak was rabid though and there were a bunch of BF-109 trying to defend the airfield but my escorts took most of them down while I trashed one of them myself.

As soon as I landed at my base with a promotion for this massacre I realised why the Germans had called the Sturmoviks "Black Death", the Soviets really were ruthless the way they fought their battles, bombing the ennemy around the clock to deprive them of sleep, shooting down Medical Transports trying to escape from the battlefield, bombing a place full of wounded and starved people even though they were ennemy soldiers, add the intense cold to that mix and you get a real nightmarish situation.

Depriving an ennemy of sleep has a very interesting side effect, according to my Neurologist if a human being doesn't get any sleep what so ever during at least 3 days in a row, it can cause brain damage, epilepsy, seizure attacks or even insanity on the victim, it was a very common torture used by the NKVD as I have heard, they often would drive their victims to insanity by depriving of sleep and when the time would be right they would put them in a psychiatric hospital where they would spend the rest of their lives, it was the fate of many NKVD victims that killing would be too dangerous on the political level.

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:07 AM
U should really read the book "STALINGRAD"
byt Anthony Beevor.
there u will get a insane idea obout how it was.
i think it was the worst place to be during WWII.
its a wery good book.

<center>http://mysite.freeserve.com/Endodontics/sigs/SigFS.jpg?0.6257472972436022 </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:16 AM
The book yes. Concure.

<table width="100%" border="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td colspan="2"><hr></td>
<td rowspan="2"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">http://members.chello.se/ven/duck.jpg</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="43%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Rubber Ducky, joy of joys,
When I squeeze you, you make noise!
Rubber Ducky, you're my very best friend,
it's true!

Rubber Ducky, you're the one,
You make bathtime lots of fun,
Rubber Ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font>
</td>
<td width="36%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Every day when I
make my way to the tubby
I find a little fella who's
Cute and yellow and chubby

Rubber Ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky that you're mine
Rubber ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:19 AM
While your at it pick up a copy of Berlin:The Downfall 1945 by the same author. Also a great Book. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

Cheers
Tartan_67th


Message Edited on 07/14/0310:20AM by Tartan_67th

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:41 AM
Doesn't he spell his first-name without an H?

<table width="100%" border="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td colspan="2"><hr></td>
<td rowspan="2"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">http://members.chello.se/ven/duck.jpg</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="43%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Rubber Ducky, joy of joys,
When I squeeze you, you make noise!
Rubber Ducky, you're my very best friend,
it's true!

Rubber Ducky, you're the one,
You make bathtime lots of fun,
Rubber Ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font>
</td>
<td width="36%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Every day when I
make my way to the tubby
I find a little fella who's
Cute and yellow and chubby

Rubber Ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky that you're mine
Rubber ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 11:43 AM
Antony Beevor

Cheers
Tartan_67th

Zayets
07-14-2003, 11:51 AM
Movie is good , but the book is better. Had relatives fighting at Stalingrad. All of them died either there , either in gulag. But one of them came home after 10 years , in '52. Well indoctrinated. He was , what we use to call a brigadier , pretty high rank in villages hierarchy. After years I understood why he did that. He just wanted to come home and that was his chance. He never wanted to talk about Stalingrad. He always said was a great victory , of course for the communist ideology in particular. But that was all. Few years ago , dunno what happened to him and he starts to say short stories about Stalingrad which pretty much shown the cruel side of the war. If you think that Germans were unprepared for the Russian winter you should see the Romanians , Hungarians and the Italians. German forces , but you already knew that , were forming the tip , in the center of the front. Is easy to understand why. For Hitler , the first ones marching in Moskow must have been Germans. The rest of them were assuring the flanks , the most vulnerable points , no matter of the army , people or tactics. Russians they knew that situation is worst with other troops , so they took advantage. The rest is well known. Reading the book , or seeing the movie makes me always sad. Never opened the map of Stalingrad , avoid missions there. Is a cursed place...
Zayets out

http://www.emicad.nl/~justdoit/il2/logo.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 12:42 PM
Both books are simply outstanding. He is a great author.

Highly recommended.

<center>

http://www.webforum.nu/member/Fornixx/190.JPG</p>
<center>

I'm not scared of dying, I just don't want to</p>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 01:15 PM
there have been laboratory tests on mice and other mammals to see what sleep deprivation caused. After around 10 days of continous sleep deprivation, it dies.

-Hareball

--------------------------------------
We should have all the generalizing extremists taken out and shot.
--------------------------------------

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 02:16 PM
You should also take a look at Enemy At The Gates by William Craig,the book is considered to be the best ever written about Stalingrad, It has nothing to do with the movie that inspired, its absolutely brilliant I cant recommend it enough.

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 04:42 PM
One more book to go, and to think I've been reading WW2 stuff since I was a kid (11 years old) My first WW2 book was a book on the Spitfire, since then I've been reading books on WW2 like crazy and now I'm 29 years old...Time sure flies*Sighs*

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 04:47 PM
Hareball wrote:
- there have been laboratory tests on mice and other
- mammals to see what sleep deprivation caused. After
- around 10 days of continous sleep deprivation, it
- dies.

It?? Guess u consider a rubberducky to be a "it" too then. /i/smilies/16x16_smiley-mad.gif
/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Didn't know there was a book called Enemy at the gate. Will check it out. Tnx.

<table width="100%" border="0" align="center">
<tr>
<td colspan="2"><hr></td>
<td rowspan="2"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">http://members.chello.se/ven/duck.jpg</font></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td width="43%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Rubber Ducky, joy of joys,
When I squeeze you, you make noise!
Rubber Ducky, you're my very best friend,
it's true!

Rubber Ducky, you're the one,
You make bathtime lots of fun,
Rubber Ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font>
</td>
<td width="36%"><font face="Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif" size="1">Every day when I
make my way to the tubby
I find a little fella who's
Cute and yellow and chubby

Rubber Ducky, you're so fine
And I'm lucky that you're mine
Rubber ducky, I'm awfully fond of you.</font></td>
</tr>
</table>

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 06:18 PM
Saeta- wrote:
- You should also take a look at Enemy At The Gates by
- William Craig,the book is considered to be the best
- ever written about Stalingrad, It has nothing to do
- with the movie that inspired, its absolutely
- brilliant I cant recommend it enough.
-
-
Yes. THIS is the one book about S'grad one should read if no other.
It is better even than A. Beevor's work, I have read both.
The movie is, well, a movie............
S!
Chris




http://members.cox.net/miataman1/WAR-08.jpg

XyZspineZyX
07-14-2003, 06:49 PM
I do believe the original name for the Book "Enemy at the Gates" was "War of the Rats".

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 01:55 AM
the movie is based on 3 pages of the book,the rest is loosely based.but it is a pretty good book,also manstein s
lost victories is pretty good,but its a hard read.panzer battles by mellenthin is a good read.

After it was refeuled i climbed in.With many manipulations the mechcanics started the turbines.I followed their actions with the greatest of interest.The first one started quite easily.the second caught fire.In no time the whole engine was on fire.Luckily as a fighter pilot i was used to getting quickly out of the cockpit.The fire was quickly put out.The second plane caused no trouble - Adolf Galland (first time in a ME262)

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 07:53 PM
I agree - Enemy at the Gates is a great read. It shows the nightmare for the soldiers on the ground, the struggles of both Axis and Red Army commands and the machinations of Stalin (who listened to his generals) and Hitler (who didn't listen to his generals).

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 09:31 PM
This is from Russia at War 1941-1945 by Alexander Werth:

" We crossed the square and went into the yard of the large burnt-out building of the Red Army House; and here one realised particularly clearly what the last days of Stalingrad had been to many of the Germans. In the porch lay a skeleton of a horse, with only a few scraps of meat still clinging to its ribs. Then we came to the yard. Here lay more horse's skeletons and, to the right there was an enormous horrible cesspool-fortunately frozen solid. And then, suddenly, at the far end of the yard I caught sight of a human figure. He had been crouching over another cesspool, and now , noticing us, he was hastily pulling up his pants, and then he slunk away into the door of a basement. But as he passed I caught a glimpse of the wrech's face-with its mixture of suffering and idiot-like incomprehension. For a moment I wished the whole of Germany were there to see it. The man was perhaps already dying. Into that basement into which he slunk there were still 200 Germans-dying of hunger and frostbite...."

"This scene of filthand sufferring in that yard of the Red Army House was my last glimpse of Stalingrad. I remembered the long anxoius days of the summer of 1942 and the nights of the London blitz, and the photographs of Hitler, smirking as he stood on the steps of the Madeline in Paris, and the weary days of '38 and '39 when a jittery Europe would tune in to Berlin and hear Hitler's yells accompanied by the cannibal roar of the German mob. And there seemed a rough justice in those frozen cesspools with their diarrhoea, and those horse's bones, and those starved yellow corpses in the yard of the Red Army House at Stalingrad"



You smug-faced crowds with kindling eye
Who cheer when soldier lads march by,
Sneak home and pray you'll never know
The hell where youth and laughter go.
-Sigfreid Sassoon- Suicide in the Trenches

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 10:15 PM
The Enemy at the Gates movie sucks, 'cept for the first 15 minutes or so.

~Tate

___________________


Ubi Forums: No Scripts, No Lounge, No Fun!

<center>http://tate.jeeran.com/usa.gif

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 10:26 PM
Blackjack_XV wrote:
- I saw the Stalingrad movie, I read a little book
- called Night Witches ....
Yap the legend says that the smoke caused by the fires and bombings was perfectly compact up to 3000m !!!

"The show must go on..."
<center>http://www.btinternet.com/~jj_b/vaw/images/iar81t.jpg </center>

XyZspineZyX
07-15-2003, 10:31 PM
von Zero,

Absolutely agree re ENEMY AT THE GATES - a stupid lame film infected with Hollywood disease. The German film STALINGRAD was a much superior piece of work.



Blutarski