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F19_Ob
06-13-2005, 07:27 AM
I tested the 109 g2's Mg151/20 yesterday
http://forums.ubi.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/23110283/m/9691028923
and today I tested the p38J's 20mm Hispano the same way and on same targetplane (spit vb 1942).

I'm not sure if the american hispanos has a different beltloadout from the Britts so this test is only with the p38J cannon.

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How the test was done:

Arcademode so every hit was detectable and I paused after every hit and looked close to make sure there was no multiple hits, wich sometimes may be the case.

Shot down 60 friendly (4 per sortie) spit vb(1942) on average skill with p38J and using nosecannon only and one shell at a time.
I didn't aim at the same spot from same distance.
I just fired from within 300m from behind at same level.
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The idea with the test is to get an average of how many Hispano 20mm shells are needed to down a fighter (spit vb).
I shot down 60 spits.
The first number are the number of cannonshells used and the second is how many planes of the 60 that went down with that ammount of shells.


1 shell = 8 planes

2 shells = 9 planes

3 shells = 13 planes

4 shells = 9 planes

5 shells = 10 planes

6 shells = 2 planes

7 shells = 2 plane

8 shells = 2 planes

9 shells = 2 planes

10 shells = 2 plane

11 shells = 0 planes

12 shells = 1 plane

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notes:

The p38J hispano cannon contains more AP (solid) rounds than the german cannon and the AP rounds do little damage, especially if they hit wings, elevators and rudder from an angle.
The planes that required many hits was mainly because of many solid rounds. Although they went through the engines on several occasions only 2 planes got their propellers stopped.

The exploding rounds did however do some damage and caused engines to burn on 7 planes and cut the tails on 5 planes.
11 planes went down from controlldamage.
12 were pilotkills of wich 3 were with the first and only shell.

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My personal note about the p38J: (feelings)

This test took longer to complete compared to the Mg151/20 test because it was so much harder to park oneself behind a plane with slow speed in the p38J. The difficulty lay in that when declerating the nose dropped too fast for trimming and when accellerating nose rose to fast for adjustment, this along with very slow roll made it very difficult to aim and normal elevator and rudder imput caused the nose to bob up and down and to the sides. The aiming is ok if one keep the speed and dont touch the throttle wich need very little input to make the nose drop or rise regardles of trim or flapsetting.
I normally try to keep the speed constant without major throttlemovements when lining up for a shot , but for this test it was required to park behind the friendly planes to complete the test in the same manner as with the 109G2
Compared the 109 was very simple and precise ,no second passes were needed.

Next up for tests are the russian cannons.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

VW-IceFire
06-13-2005, 07:45 AM
So I think its reasonable to conclude based on your tests that the MG151/20 is a bit more powerful than the Hispano but that the two are very close.

tigertalon
06-13-2005, 07:50 AM
Hi OB, thnx for test, good job.

Why didn't u use P-400 which also has hispano in nose?

OldMan____
06-13-2005, 07:57 AM
I did my tests mysel. (but using SPit9 as taregt). The hispano resultsseem close to mine. But with MG151 I could not get not even close to so many shot down with 1 round. Most went down with 3 and 4 rounds for me.

1-shell =7
2 shells= 15
3-shells= 17
4-shells= 12
5-shells= 5
6 shells=2
7 shells=1
8 shells=1

Theoreticaly, since we have 2 MG every 5 shells we should never get a distrubution such as that 1 round is majority of hits (since there is more chance that non MG shells hit than MG ones). Only MG shells are capable of killing a Spit in one shot (save very very very lucky shots). So these type os test must be made recording with types of shell made the final blow.

F19_Ob
06-13-2005, 08:16 AM
Yes the cannonpower seem ok I think, and remeber that these tests were with cannon only. The p38 has also 4 heavy machineguns in addition and the 109 two.
So in gunnery they are both strong.

After flying a while in the 109 it feels much more potent now. I very much doubt p38J is any threat for an experienced 109 pilot. The disadvantages in performance in the p38J are just too great. because of the slow roll and decleration. (so bounces and luck is needed)

The later L variants with boosted ailerons should have a tiny bit easier in high speeds and should be able to escape more often when it's not forced in one direction only.
On the other hand a 109 can now spray and likely score kill much like with the 30mm, so the status between these two could be pretty much the same as before.
I haven't tested the L's performance yet but some say the boosted ailerons really work so that will be interesting to see.

We still have to remeber that this version isn't final.

regards http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

F19_Ob
06-13-2005, 08:19 AM
Originally posted by tigertalon:
Hi OB, thnx for test, good job.

Why didn't u use P-400 which also has hispano in nose?

He he...I just really like the p38J even though the L is more popular.
So no particular reason more than that.

F19_Ob
06-13-2005, 08:27 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
I did my tests mysel. (but using SPit9 as taregt). The hispano resultsseem close to mine. But with MG151 I could not get not even close to so many shot down with 1 round. Most went down with 3 and 4 rounds for me.

1-shell =7
2 shells= 15
3-shells= 17
4-shells= 12
5-shells= 5
6 shells=2
7 shells=1
8 shells=1

Theoreticaly, since we have 2 MG every 5 shells we should never get a distrubution such as that 1 round is majority of hits (since there is more chance that non MG shells hit than MG ones). Only MG shells are capable of killing a Spit in one shot (save very very very lucky shots). So these type os test must be made recording with types of shell made the final blow.

Yeah This test is just to get an average and therefore there is room for some variation and the luckfactor.

To test a single particular type of shell it have to hit the exact spot and from the same angle on the same target wich is a crazy task. It just would take too long to replicate with all the cannons even if one would allow a big errormargin.

thanks for testing too http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

tigertalon
06-13-2005, 08:28 AM
Originally posted by OldMan____:
Theoreticaly, since we have 2 MG every 5 shells we should never get a distrubution such as that 1 round is majority of hits (since there is more chance that non MG shells hit than MG ones).

Keep in mind, OldMan, that now we have 3 MG shells per every 5 in most belts.

JG52Karaya-X
06-13-2005, 10:09 AM
Originally posted by F19_Ob:
Next up for tests are the russian cannons.
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Aye, test the B20 on the La7-3xB20 and the Yak3P... they roxxorz
Did anybody notice that on the B20s ALL rounds have turned into (yellow) tracers with 4.0!? It looks so scary when an La7 or Yak3P is unleashing its firepower onto you. First time I saw it I went like "Oh my god, WTF is that?"