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zimbower1
04-01-2005, 09:44 AM
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14?

crazyivan1970
04-01-2005, 09:45 AM
What kind of news?

zimbower1
04-01-2005, 09:48 AM
Will it be added in game?

crazyivan1970
04-01-2005, 09:50 AM
Not sure if it was even planned http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

darkhorizon11
04-03-2005, 04:18 PM
Yeah.

To busy with the Me.155! http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

VW-IceFire
04-03-2005, 05:09 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zimbower1:
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think one was ever planned...we never heard about one.

TAGERT.
04-03-2005, 05:11 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zimbower1:
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think one was ever planned...we never heard about one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good.. that is just one less elevator for them to whine about! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Atomic_Marten
04-03-2005, 06:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zimbower1:
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think one was ever planned...we never heard about one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good.. that is just one less elevator for them to whine about! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.forum.hr/images/smilies/lol.gif

Stanger_361st
04-03-2005, 07:33 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zimbower1:
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think one was ever planned...we never heard about one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good.. that is just one less elevator for them to whine about! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/351.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/88.gif
Agree on that one.

VOL_Hans
04-04-2005, 08:56 AM
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time.

TAGERT.
04-04-2005, 09:57 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about 500+, P-47M and P51H and about 2000+ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time.

p1ngu666
04-04-2005, 10:10 AM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

F16_Sulan
04-13-2005, 10:39 PM
I think the i-15 would be much cooler than any of the above-mentioned.

faustnik
04-13-2005, 10:41 PM
K-14??? How many of these saw service??? Why not spend time on planes that flew in large numbers? Just a thought...

aipilotmarkone
04-14-2005, 03:20 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by F16_Sulan:
I think the i-15 would be much cooler than any of the above-mentioned. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

rgr that F16_Sulan!
Hopefully the I-15, Bf-109B/C and other Spanish Cival War planes/maps etc. will make it into a BoB add-on. I don't thing we'll see in PF

Badsight.
04-14-2005, 03:48 AM
none of them have anything on a Shinden

adding a Shinden would add 5000 more players evey week & make millions for maddox games

but no plane could compete , it would just be too dominant

CTO88
04-14-2005, 05:10 AM
proplaby two 109k14 saw action in jg-52 at the end of war.

btw yak-3u rulez.

Bull_dog_
04-15-2005, 04:41 PM
Frankly speaking I'm sick and tired of late ware what if uber planes...give me the following and I'd be happy...

P-51 IA/ A-36
P-38F, G and H
Ki-44
Spit Mk I
Bf110C
Dewontine D520
Mc200 and 202

Now that is what we need...more early and mid war planes...maybe Lexx will drop in and add some Krap planes to the list as he likes them, but I'm just not up on them.

No more late war uber maybe/what iffers

Ratsack
04-15-2005, 05:01 PM
Agreed!!! With bells on.

We already have hoards of Ta152s, and these saw service with what, two staffeln? Not to mention the 109Ks: only about 750 built (and rebuilt) by the end, and yet they're all over the servers where they're allowed.

Gotta agree with Tagert and Faustnik on this. And while we're at it, Tagert, forget the bloody P47M: it's the P47N you want. Same motor, more range, better turning (if you believe the pilots subjective reports), more built, and it saw extensive service in the Pacific. Let the whining commence.
http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

BigganD
04-16-2005, 06:59 AM
Wasnt it 900 k4s that were built?

BuzzU
04-16-2005, 02:37 PM
Give me an F-15, and i'd own the Luftdudes.. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Kurfurst__
04-16-2005, 03:12 PM
It seems the K-14 did not see production (this version meant a two-stage supercharged DB 605 L and plus 2xMk 108s in the wings like K-6)) but a close equivalent version of the K-4 did.

This was similiar to the K-4 in all but the engine, which was a two staged DB 605D, so I guess performance was very similiar to the K-14 : worser than the standard 109K up to ca6000m, but better above and real killer above 10 000m, much like the Ta 152H. Both Japo and Monogram 109K books shown some evidence to that, a written order in March 1945 to produce a K-4 version with improved supercharger, and a czech engine mechanic also states these two staged 605Ds began to flown in from Jan 1945, and in great numbers from March.

BTW, ca1700 K-4s were produced, 856 of them up to 31st December, 1944.

Ratsack
04-16-2005, 03:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Wasnt it 900 k4s that were built? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't think so. I'll check.

Ratsack

PraetorHonoris
04-16-2005, 05:34 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
Agreed!!! With bells on.

We already have hoards of Ta152s, and these saw service with what, two staffeln? Not to mention the 109Ks: only about 750 built (and rebuilt) by the end, and yet they're all over the servers where they're allowed. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Luftwaffe had only about 300 planes by war's end (cf. Price, A.: The Last Year of the Luftwaffe, P.231), so two Staffeln were quite a lot.
You have to regard, that the Luftwaffe was way smaller than the AFs of their opponents in 1945.
750 may sound like small numbers compared to the Allied industry's capacies, but for the size of the Lw it was a lot...

How many percent of the US' Air Force are 2500 P47M and P51H?

Actually I can't take all these whinings for late war monster uber planes, neither the axis whining nor allied counter-whining.

You probably won't see a P47M in Il2, but a Do335 (which saw, btw, combat).
Simple facts - get over it.

You should whine for Mosquitos, Pe2/3, Do17/217, Ju88/188/388, all Italian and French planes, Tempest/Typhoon, Hs129 and so on
They were more essential for WWII air war than all these F8F, Me109K14, YP80, Go229 and so on...

p1ngu666
04-16-2005, 05:45 PM
ta152's, heard that no squadron, groupe or whatever was fully equiped with them, they had a few, but where on strength with dora's or something.

do335 ran away from combat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

Ratsack
04-16-2005, 06:15 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Wasnt it 900 k4s that were built? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't think so. I'll check.

Ratsack <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, 'about 700' K4s by war's end. From:

D.A. Lande, Messerschmidt 109, (MBI, 2000), p. 85.

I have another reference packed away in my book boxes for about 750. Regarding Klusterphark's claim of about 1,700 built http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, one can merely speculate on the quality of his medication. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

_Neveraine_
04-16-2005, 07:37 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>do335 ran away from combat? http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif i look forward to doing this (i'm a shameless coward http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_cool.gif)

p1ngu666
04-16-2005, 11:44 PM
i often do in 190 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
im a **** 190 pilot http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

p1ngu666
04-17-2005, 12:00 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BigganD:
Wasnt it 900 k4s that were built? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't think so. I'll check.

Ratsack <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope, 'about 700' K4s by war's end. From:

D.A. Lande, Messerschmidt 109, (MBI, 2000), p. 85.

I have another reference packed away in my book boxes for about 750. Regarding Klusterphark's claim of about 1,700 built http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif, one can merely speculate on the quality of his medication. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/53.gif

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

1700 could include spare parts. so how many u could bulid in theroy from the stack of spare parts u made.

k4 used alot of stuff from G series, so large stocks of that. alot of stuff got lost on trains cos of them being strafed all the time. railway wagons just pushed into sidings and left, just to clear the line

Aaron_GT
04-17-2005, 01:30 AM
'I have another reference packed away in my book boxes for about 750. Regarding Klusterphark's claim of about 1,700 built , one can merely speculate on the quality of his medication."

Given that a lot of planes were being built at the end of the war but not delivered due to lack of transport it's not impossible that 1700 were built but with only 750 making it onto the books of the LW. In the last days a lot of planes were simply destroyed by the allied air forces on the ground in storage parks at factories. It also might be that work numbers were allocated for 1700, with somewhere between 750 and 1700 actually finished.

Tvrdi
04-17-2005, 03:50 AM
I want FW190-D10 rather than this gunsight....Dora with Mk108 http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Ratsack
04-17-2005, 04:44 AM
No, I've read both texts again, and they're quite clear. About 700 built. Not 1,700. Not 900. Not 750.

About 700. In terms of relevance to the air war, the Fw190A3 is far more significant. Gimme that before any of this late war stuff.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Jagdtiger
04-17-2005, 06:56 AM
According to J.Prien&P.Rodeikes book about Bf 109 F,G,&K series, regarded as being the best you can get about the 109, it says on page 167; by november 30 1944 534 K-4s had been delivered and it may be assumed that at least another 1200 machines had been built by the time the war ended.
Well to sum that up: 534+1200=1734

Regards,
Kris from Sweden

jagdmailer
04-17-2005, 08:58 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Ratsack:
No, I've read both texts again, and they're quite clear. About 700 built. Not 1,700. Not 900. Not 750.

About 700. In terms of relevance to the air war, the Fw190A3 is far more significant. Gimme that before any of this late war stuff.

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You won't get any early Fw 190s in FB/PF/AEP (ie. A-2 & A-3) cause Oleg already said that they were being reserved for BoB or BoB follow-up sim. Same story with flyable Bf 110C-4 & Bf 109C-4/B and a few others (Spit Mk I & Mk II ??)

Jagd

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-17-2005, 10:30 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14

Copperhead310th
04-17-2005, 12:49 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VW-IceFire:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by zimbower1:
Any news about the Messerschmitt Bf-109 K-14? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
I don't think one was ever planned...we never heard about one. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>Good.. that is just one less elevator for them to whine about! http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Right on tagert! lol http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/34.gif

Copperhead310th
04-17-2005, 12:58 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey speak for yerself there *******.
and had it not been for the whole Northrop scandal there WOULD have been a P-47N and P-61.
the N alone would have had the luftwaffels shacking in thier jackboots. now....go play in yer sand box kid.

jagdmailer
04-17-2005, 01:21 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey speak for yerself there *******.
and had it not been for the whole Northrop scandal there WOULD have been a P-47N and P-61.
the N alone would have had the luftwaffels shacking in thier jackboots. now....go play in yer sand box kid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't want to rain on your parade pal but the flying toilet seats are probably some of the easiest dogfights in a well piloted 109. I would take my chances anytime in a 109 versus a P-47.

Jagd

p1ngu666
04-17-2005, 02:08 PM
p47 can be a very capable aircraft, in the right hands http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

BuzzU
04-17-2005, 04:16 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey speak for yerself there *******.
and had it not been for the whole Northrop scandal there WOULD have been a P-47N and P-61.
the N alone would have had the luftwaffels shacking in thier jackboots. now....go play in yer sand box kid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't want to rain on your parade pal but the flying toilet seats are probably some of the easiest dogfights in a well piloted 109. I would take my chances anytime in a 109 versus a P-47.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life, or a video game?

NorrisMcWhirter
04-17-2005, 04:58 PM
From Knocke's accounts, he regularly had many Jugs chasing him to shoot him down (6+)..and even then he bagged one that overshot.

I wonder how Knocke would have faired in a straight one on one?

Only time I worry about a Jug is if it's above me. If not, it's no problem.

Anyway, back to the real thing...K-14 sounds good but we should have more mid-war aircraft for Italy/UK etc.

Not late war fanciful yawn-fests which, thankfully, have largely been nobbled by legal action.

Norris

Marc-David
04-17-2005, 04:59 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PraetorHonoris:

The Luftwaffe had only about 300 planes by war's end (cf. Price, A.: The Last Year of the Luftwaffe, P.231) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hallo Praetor Honoris,

I am not sure about Your number, because in my exemplar of "Last Year of the LW" it says on P.189:
"At the time of the armistice it [the LW] possessed some 3000 [not 300!!!] front-line combat aircraft but most of them sat in camouflaged dispersal points with empty fuel tanks."

Yours, MD

P.S.: Ich sch├┬Ątze mal http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif, dass Du der Praetor Honoris aus dem deutschen Forum bist. Ich bin mir nicht 100% sicher, meine aber gelesen zu haben, dass zu Kriegsende z.B. allein schon mind. 800 He 162 in der fortgeschrittenen Fertigung waren.

PraetorHonoris
04-17-2005, 05:42 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Marc-David:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PraetorHonoris:

The Luftwaffe had only about 300 planes by war's end (cf. Price, A.: The Last Year of the Luftwaffe, P.231) <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hallo Praetor Honoris,

I am not sure about Your number, because in my exemplar of "Last Year of the LW" it says on P.189:
"At the time of the armistice it [the LW] possessed some 3000 [not 300!!!] front-line combat aircraft but most of them sat in camouflaged dispersal points with empty fuel tanks." <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have got exact the same sentence in my exemplar, but with the number of 300.

The last number, which can be confirmed by German records is from April 9 1945.
On this day, Lw had about 3350 planes.

It is quite unlikely, that the Lw lost 3000 planes in less than one month, because from january to april the losses were about 1200 planes.
(all numbers from "Last Year")

You have to regard, that the problem at this time was not the availability of aircrafts, but the lack of pilots and fuels.

Und ja, ich bin derselbe wie im deutschen Forum http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kurfurst__
04-18-2005, 03:37 AM
Me 109 production and operational use :

http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/715_1113816543_109kprod.jpg


http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/715_1113816270_p167.jpg


From : RL2III/1158
On 31 January 1945 the combat units of the Luftwaffe and their associated Erganzungs Einheiten, had the following strength in Bf109 types. These are on hand totals, they include both 'frontline' and 'other' units. Included are all aircraft operational and non-operational at the time. (combat/Erganzungs):

Bf109G1/5 (0/1)
Bf109G12 (0/5)
Bf109G6 (71/328)
Bf109G14 and G14U4 (431/190)
Bf109G10, G10/U4 and G14/AS (568/3)
Bf109K4 (314/0)
Bf109G10/R6 (51/0)
----------------------
Total (1435/527)

Other Jagd types totaled (1058/359)

Schlacht types totaled (680/375)
Nachtschlacht types totaled (422/95)
Zerstorer types totaled (42/0)
Nachtjagd types totaled (1241, no breakdown between the two)
Kampf types totaled (543/158)
Nahaufklarer totaled (407/27)
Fernaufklarer totaled (195/81)
See types totaled (78/17)
Transport types totaled (496/9)

Grand total (6597/1631)

Ratsack
04-18-2005, 07:20 AM
To make that 1,200 figure, the production rate of K-4s at Messerschmidt from January to April 1945 inclusive would have had to equal the average monthly rate of production of K-4s between October and December 1944. This is an extraordinary proposition, given the strategic situation pertaining (dispersal of production, reversion to primitive transport in production, increasing absenteeism, increasing draft of remaining skilled labour, increased shortage of materials, increased weight of Allied air attack, etc).

A more cynical soul than I would suggest the authors of the book came up that 1,200 figure by doing exactly the calculation I prescribe in the first sentence above.

So in relation to the proposal that we may assume another 1,200 K-4s were delivered by war's end, I'm afraid I'll be assuming no such thing.

About 700.


http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif
Ratsack

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-18-2005, 10:43 PM
American designs suck, and German ones don't. real simple. Everyone wants to fly German. Its just the way it is.

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-18-2005, 10:45 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jagdmailer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14 <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey speak for yerself there *******.
and had it not been for the whole Northrop scandal there WOULD have been a P-47N and P-61.
the N alone would have had the luftwaffels shacking in thier jackboots. now....go play in yer sand box kid. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't want to rain on your parade pal but the flying toilet seats are probably some of the easiest dogfights in a well piloted 109. I would take my chances anytime in a 109 versus a P-47.

Jagd <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

In real life, or a video game? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Honestly its true. American designs suck, I mean I know you have to have your own planes and all but you know everyone loves German planes and wishes they were German. Sorry but its true.

Slickun
04-20-2005, 11:02 AM
Cause you say so.

Sorry buddy, but some of the Aces who flew the LW designs disagree with you.

BuzzU
04-20-2005, 11:58 AM
No thanks. I hate sauerkraut.

LEXX_Luthor
04-20-2005, 12:07 PM
Wonderful

I am learning FireFox has a Feature that I can block oversize pics so I can read the threads. It works!!!

Kurfurst, if you re~size the pics, or make them click links, lemme know so I can un~block that web page for future references. Thanks.

Copperhead310th
04-20-2005, 06:05 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BuzzU:
No thanks. I hate sauerkraut. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

ooooo good 1 Buzz. http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/25.gif

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-20-2005, 06:29 PM
American planes are just hideous look the one in that sig up above. Dinky looking cockpit slapped on to some bulbous body. Boring. I love Saurkraut. mmmmm.

pourshot
04-20-2005, 06:41 PM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
American planes are just hideous look the one in that sig up above. Dinky looking cockpit slapped on to some bulbous body. Boring. I love Saurkraut. mmmmm. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

To quote buzz nobody says the 109 won the war http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

BuzzU
04-20-2005, 07:29 PM
Sauerkraut is teh Hitler.


Something I would have said at CWOS. (works here too)

p1ngu666
04-20-2005, 09:55 PM
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
indeed, german designs are better, for example look at the superb turbochargers they made for there fighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

and tbh, good design can come from anywhere, anytime, by anyone.

sure u probably trolling, and sure i know about ju86 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and, if u want superb design, how about this little baby

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8009edit.jpg

has sleave valves too, obivously http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

one of the best, and quite possibly THE best piston engine for fuel encomey vs power,and weight vs power.

postwar (just) engine, just no one wanted it, wanted jets.

41litre displacement btw.

they did produce "normal engines too", unless u read too far. napier lion, a v12 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif, with 3 banks of 4 cylinders http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif

Big_Bad_Wulf
04-21-2005, 02:11 AM
They can`t build superb superchargers, because they hadn`t enough special metals and 100 octane fuel for a mass production.

Why is everybody crying for the latest warplane(P-80 rofl)?
Deficiency in skill?
Most of the whiners here fly BnZ planes(LW&US) on Cockpit off and full icons servers... rofl.
Absolutely childish!

These guys should go on a full real server and look at the guys, that handle the planes in a correct way. Both, LW and US planes.
They know how to be a real challenge in their planes, for everyone, in every plane.

Uuuu, he is on my six, thats historical not correct... maybe historical not correct, because there were 1200 allied bombers and 500 fighters in the air against 200 german fighters.
But don`t you think, that in equal numbers it is correct, that the LW planes are a real match?
It`s no XBOX game, where P-47/51 is in every case of aircombat superior.

If you want this, than play Wing Commander, Tie fighter or something like this. There you get your "├┼ôberplanes" http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_wink.gif else learn how to fly the planes, like they were build for.

BTW: there are superb P-47/51 pilots in the Hyperlobby. Learn from them, if you are not successfull.They know how to kick K.4 a$$$$.

MOhz
04-21-2005, 02:45 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
_Wonderful_

I am learning FireFox has a Feature that I can block oversize pics so I can read the threads. It works!!!

Kurfurst, if you re~size the pics, or make them click links, lemme know so I can un~block that web page for future references. Thanks. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Do you mean the under advanced settings, the resize large pictures, etc to fit in the browser checkbox? It works alright with pictures i look at individually, but it does not seem to work in the Forum itself for me. Can you help? or was it that...

Trink_Afri-Cola
04-23-2005, 01:14 AM
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by p1ngu666:
http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif
indeed, german designs are better, for example look at the superb turbochargers they made for there fighters http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

and tbh, good design can come from anywhere, anytime, by anyone.

sure u probably trolling, and sure i know about ju86 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif

and, if u want superb design, how about this little baby

http://premium1.uploadit.org/pingu666//SIMG8009edit.jpg

has sleave valves too, obivously http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif

one of the best, and quite possibly THE best piston engine for fuel encomey vs power,and weight vs power.

postwar (just) engine, just no one wanted it, wanted jets.

41litre displacement btw.

they did produce "normal engines too", unless u read too far. napier lion, a v12 http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif, with 3 banks of 4 cylinders http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

When I say designs, mostly it has to do with the look. I think I've said that like 3 times now, American planes LOOK hideous, british too. ANd russian too , heh heh.

LeadSpitter_
04-27-2005, 12:47 AM
Biggand there was about 3000 K varients built and were delievered in the last months of the war april 1945 k2 k4 k6 but not enough pilots or fuel to fly them.

Roughly 295 seen service.

BigKahuna_GS
05-03-2005, 12:54 PM
S!

__________________________________________________ ______________________
BigBadWolf--Uuuu, he is on my six, thats historical not correct... maybe historical not correct, because there were 1200 allied bombers and 500 fighters in the air against 200 german fighters.But don`t you think, that in equal numbers it is correct, that the LW planes are a real match?
It`s no XBOX game, where P-47/51 is in every case of aircombat superior.
__________________________________________________ _______________________



US Fighters did not have numerical superiority over the Luftwaffe until mid to late 1944. The above statement does not take into consideration that the 500 US escort fighters were positioned along a 60-80 mile bomber stream formation like a zone defense and not concentrated in one single area.

Many times as Col Bud Anderson would say, the US escort fighters were outnumbered because the germans practiced "Local Superiority" concentrating hundreds of fighters in one specific area. It would be easy to see that 200 german fighters massed at one specific area of the bomber stream would have numerical superiority over the defending US escort fighters spread out over 60-80 miles covering the entire bomber stream.


____

__________________________________________________ ____________________
Don't want to rain on your parade pal but the flying toilet seats are probably some of the easiest dogfights in a well piloted 109. I would take my chances anytime in a 109 versus a P-47.
Jagd
__________________________________________________ _____________________



That is because the dive acceleration is off on the P47-D27. The 109K4/G10 basically has the same dive speed as the P47. There is no historical seperation until terminal dive speed is reached and by that time the P47 is shot down or heavily damaged. The AEP/PF P47 F/M is really not that close to the real historical WW2 P47 in terms of dive acceleration and energy retention.

Also we do not have the best models of P47s in the sim; P47M-470mph/490mph TAS overboosted at 33,000ft & the best handeling P47N-467mph TAS and 100deg a sec roll rate at high speed. Also, None of the overboosted 8th Air Force P47s on 150octane avgas are present.

Here is what Gunther Rall had to say about the P47's dive speed:

http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-GuntherRallEnglish.html

Questions and Answers

In Rall's opinon as both Commander of the Fighter Training School where all types of fighters were tested including the 109K4, G10, 190D-9 and during first hand combat experience the P47 was faster in the dive. You notice that he was caught from behind by P47s while trying to escape. That is when he had his hand was shot up badly and he had to bail from his smoking 109.

What is the difference of structural strength between a 109G6 and a 109K4 ? ---nothing but the engine and engine mountings.

Notice what Rall says about structural strength of the 109: ("You couldn't stand that you know?" 109)

Read the whole interview : http://www.virtualpilots.fi/hist/WW2History-GuntherRallEnglish.html

Q: Mr. Rall, what was the best tactic against the P-47?

A: Against the P-47? Shoot him down! <Laughter from both Mr. Rall and audience, applause>

P-47 was not a big problem. The problem was if you were chased by the P-47, he was fast in a dive, had a higher structural strength. You couldn't stand that you know? And they came closer in a dive, because she was faster. But P-47 was a big ship, you know? No doubt. But in a position where you chase him, there was no equivalent condition.

Keypoint---Rall--"But in a position where you chase him, there was no equivalent condition".


Q. Did you fly many more flights at the very end of the war, 1945?

A. No, no. I flew the 109. My Wing and all the Combat Wings, we flew the 109G in those days. But when I was a Commander of the Fighter Training School, I flew the 190, the long nose 190 and all types. We were testing them. In combat I flew the 109. I will tell you, the last month, April, there was no more fighting anymore in the last year, because we didn't get any warning. You know, there was no radar station anymore. In the west, there was finito with the war already. So this was chaos.


What was important was the German Air Force had a formation of captured aircraft restored. They came for training to my fighter leader school. Certainly, I only flew the P-51, P-47, P-38 as a target for my students. So I learned these planes and I learned the advantages and disadvantages compared with the Focke-Wulf 190 and the 109. And I still consider that altogether with all these factors that the P-51 was most likely one of the best fighter planes. This was maneuverable. When I got in, the first thing, I got in the cockpit and I saw electric starting system. I remember wank, wank in Russia (refers to the manual starter by mechanics). Her (P-51) press button, prrrd, then we go (electrical starter, easy engine starter). Fantastic. Beautiful sight (visibility). We never had this sight to the back.. Very stable undercarriage. Very good weapons set. So I think this was a very good airplane. I flew it a few times, then I flew the P-47, then I discovered the speed difference, down, perfect. P-38. And I flew the Spitfire. The Spitfire was a fantastic airplane, but with a limited endurance like all the continental aircraft. So this was a good lecture for me. After that I became a wing commander of the Wing 300 (JG300). This was at the end of the war in February 1945. It was chaos. I don't talk about that anymore.
___

More Rall:

Now the big difference, talking about the airplanes we confronted. The Americans came in P-47 or P-38 or -P51. Their engines flew 7 ÔŻ hours with internal tank fuel, not external tank. We, and all continental aircraft, including the Spitfires, all the French planes, flew 1 hour 20. We had an external tank, but you had to drop the tank because it reduced mobility. This was a tremendous handicap against the Americans.

_____



USAAF P47 vs 190 Flight Test


The following is the USAAF test report from a comparison between a Fw190A5 (I believe this was an A5/U8 as it shows no outer wing Cannon or cowling Mg) and a P-47D-4. The A-5 had its two inner wing Cannon removed and equivalent weights substituted. The FW190 was described: "...as in exceptionally good condition for a captured airplane, and developed 42 inches manifold pressure on takeoff." The P-47 was equipped with Water Injection but no paddle blade propeller.

The tests were done between S.L. and 15,000ft. The pilot of the P-47 had 200 hours in P-40's and 5 hours in the P-47. The FW190 Pilot had 300 hours in twin engine, 500 hours in single engine and 5 hours in the FW190. Four separate flights of one hour each were conducted. All speeds were in IAS.


Part of the test-----

3) Diving

(a) 10,000-3,000ft, starting at 250mph diving at an angle of 65 degrees with constant throttle setting. The Fw190 pulled away rapidly at the beginning, but the P-47 passed it at 3,000ft with a much greater speed and had a decidedly better angle of pull out.



"However it was found the P-47 could get on the tail of the Fw190 by making a figure 8 in a vertical plane. In this maneuver, the P-47 , which was being pursued by the Fw190 in level flight attempted to execute as series of climbs, slow turns, and dives which would end up with the positions reversed and the P-47 on the tail of the FW190. The maneuver started with a a steep climbing turn to near stalling point, followed by a falloff and fast dive which ended in a pullout and fast climbing sweep which again carried the plane up to the stall and fall off point. The P-47 built up more speed in the dive than the FW190 with the result that the Thunderbolt also climbed faster than the FW190 and also higher. The P-47 pilot merely waited for the FW190 to reach its stalling point below him and turned very neatly on the tail of the falling away FW190. With its much greater diving acceleration, the P-47 soon caught the FW190 in the second dive of his maneuver."

R.Johnson did this many times.

The P47 was able to gain an advantge from it's greater dive acceleration during relatively short dives and it's greater energy retention in the vertical. Something not at all reflected in AEP/PF.


________________________


From a JG26 Pilot :


Fw 190D9 pilot Lt Karl Heinz Ossenkop of JG 26 comparing their crate to the opposition.

Spitfire: the D-9 was better in level flight, climb and dive. It was slightly inferior in turns.

Tempest: almost equal in level flight, a lengthy pursuit was usually fruitless. The D-9 climbed and turned better, but was inferior in a dive.

Mustang: the two aircraft were about equal in normal combat maneuvers, which was an advantage to us compared to the A-8. The Mustang was rather faster in a dive.

Thunderbolt: with the Dora-9 we had advantages in level flight, climb and turn. We were hopelessly inferior in a dive. Never try to dive away from a Thunderbolt.


__________________

Vipez-
06-06-2005, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by Copperhead310th:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Trink_Afri-Cola:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by TAGERT.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by VOL_Hans:
OK,a Bf-109K14 would be an interesting plane to have. Those aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at any altitude.

There were no "prototypes". Trouble is that they only made two, the two they made don't match either!

One had MK-108's inside the wings, the other did not...

Cool to have, but to have it correct would mean to have the Allies whine about getting killed all the time. OK,a F8F, F7F, F4u-4, P-47M or P51H would be an interesting plane to have. That aircraft would simply beat the snot out of any non-jet it ran into at high altitude.

There were "prototypes" for each as early a 44. Trouble is that they only made about _500+,_ P-47M and P51H and about _2000+_ of the F4u-4 before the wars end!

Some of the -4's had .50s the othrs had 20mm...

Cool to have, but to have it would mean to have the Lufties whine about getting killed all the time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Because noone cares about any of those stupid planes, just the K-14 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

hey speak for yerself there *******.
and had it not been for the whole Northrop scandal there WOULD have been a P-47N and P-61.
the N alone would have had the luftwaffels shacking in thier jackboots. now....go play in yer sand box kid. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

well It's not LW-whiners fault there is so many greedy american corporations http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/35.gif (Northrop , Grumman etc)

gombal40
06-06-2005, 11:45 AM
Whine about this. This is as good as it can get.

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0731_1.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0909.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0724_1.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0727_1.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0971.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0967.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0948.jpg

gombal40
06-06-2005, 11:49 AM
well mayby.....

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0610_1.jpg

http://www.xs4all.nl/~nijssie/plane/IMG_0608_1.jpg

NonWonderDog
06-06-2005, 12:17 PM
Originally posted by MOhz:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LEXX_Luthor:
_Wonderful_

I am learning FireFox has a Feature that I can block oversize pics so I can read the threads. It works!!!

Kurfurst, if you re~size the pics, or make them click links, lemme know so I can un~block that web page for future references. Thanks.

Do you mean the under advanced settings, the resize large pictures, etc to fit in the browser checkbox? It works alright with pictures i look at individually, but it does not seem to work in the Forum itself for me. Can you help? or was it that... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think he means "right click"->"block images from this guy's website"

There's a better way, though. There are multiple image zoom extensions out there for firefox that let you resize any image on a webpage. http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Just search for them on the extensions page or with google.

woofiedog
06-09-2005, 02:04 AM
- only serial produced Bf 109 K
- until end of 1944 856 planes were produced by Messerschmitt Regensburg
- further production numbers unknown

link http://www.adlertag.de/flugzeuge/bf109keng.htm