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BillSwagger
06-29-2009, 06:51 PM
I would like to see a server that is somewhere between full real, and open pit.
I would like to see it closed pit, no externals, but still allow padlocks.
Icons could be useful, but if they are turned off, then the padlock wouldn't distinguish friend from foe. You could also program the icons to not reveal friend from foe or until they are much closer instead of the default.

There are many options to play with here, but
the server should at least have cockpit always on, and no externals.

I think there is a wide gap between what open pit offers, and what "full switch" servers offer.

There is also better variety on open pit servers, so maybe i would keep that variety. It would be nice to dog fight other allied planes with more restricted views.

Just a thought.



=))
Please donate, so i can make a cool server.

Money raised : $0.02

Money needed : $5000.00


okay, okay, please be patient people i know i wont be able to get back to all of you at once, and i'm not sure how much email my profile can hold, so if you cant get through the first time, keep trying.

thanks

M_Gunz
06-29-2009, 07:27 PM
Closed pit with very limited icons then?

PS - that's an awful lot, you can get a hosting service to run it much cheaper!

BillSwagger
06-29-2009, 07:41 PM
I recently learned that you can change what icons display at different distances.

Im actually pretty indifferent to icons, but its always a treat having a distance meter.
Also knowing plane type from 3km out, gives me a good impression of how my plane needs to perform energy wise.

I suppose icon settings could be:

distance tags at 3km...

plane type : 2 or 3km


team color : 1km
The way i see it, its usually toughest to identify friend from foe in head on passes with out icons. Having team color displayed at 1km at least gives a better indicator if you need to shoot, and wouldn't ruin the surprise aspect of trying to get a read on an approaching object.


I think whats needed more, is the variety of planesets.

Full real, usually offers a handful of planes on each side from a specific historical setting, where the open pit servers let you have at it with just about any plane from the same era.

With that thought in mind icons might be a necessity.

BillSwagger
06-29-2009, 08:13 PM
PS - that's an awful lot, you can get a hosting service to run it much cheaper!

yeah but I'm sure you'd also want a server with no stutters. Pluss having the potential to build and flawlessly run at 100+ user capacity would be neat, wouldn't it?

WTE_Galway
06-29-2009, 11:03 PM
That is more or less how I remember servers used to be when I last played online (2003/2004).

There was the occasional open cockpit server (derogatively called Wonder Women Servers at the time) and even rarer th eodd full switch. The typical server back then as far as I recall -

* cockpit forced on
* externals on
* padlock on
* often limited range icons
* map enabled, often map icons enabled

BillSwagger
06-29-2009, 11:15 PM
id put a line through externals and map icons.

WTE_Galway
06-29-2009, 11:23 PM
Personally I would like to see a version of map icons where friendlies show up and also enemies that are more than 10k away also show up (simulating radio reports of "trade" in a particular sector).

That would avoid the problem of full switch servers where you have trouble finding the enemy at all if the server is empty - but also eliminate the use of map icons as a cheat in dogfights

BillSwagger
06-29-2009, 11:44 PM
There should be simulated radio calls in the game, like if a ship or ground units spot you they could radio coordinates and heading.
I suppose options for adjusting map icons at certain distances would be a great option to have, but its still one I would be inclined to leave off.
The added simulation effect is not worth losing the tactical realism of the game.
I suspect that it would have a similar effect as those arrows do on open pit servers, where basically the whole surprise element is taken away.



\

F19_Orheim
06-30-2009, 12:41 AM
Personally I would like to see a server in Full switch, but also with all textmessages gone; no message who shot or damaged who, who landed and who crashed. No textmessages at all.

Still, good luck with you endevour

M_Gunz
06-30-2009, 12:46 AM
You could limit what icon info appears to next to none and limit range to 100m or less.

As to server hosts, I can hook you up with someone who has such a deal already to tell you details.

The hosts I am talking about have T3 or multiple T3 lines and high end hardware depending on the
rate you want to pay but it's not as much as you might expect. A dedicated server doesn't take
nearly as much computer as someone who is playing IL2 and hosting at the same time.

You could build a -lot- of PC for under $2000, and the monthly connect that will add up. Cable net
is good for a lot but I think you are talking about more than that. Google on server hosting and
see what 24/7/365 service will run but definitely talk to people who rent to weed out the poor ones.

M_Gunz
06-30-2009, 12:57 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
There should be simulated radio calls in the game, like if a ship or ground units spot you they could radio coordinates and heading.

IL2 does not allow such things but SOW might. In WWI the German gunners would fire flak bursts off to the side of
their own planes to alert them to spotted Allied planes, as Rickenbacker wrote. I am hoping RoF has that.


I suppose options for adjusting map icons at certain distances would be a great option to have, but its still one I would be inclined to leave off.
The added simulation effect is not worth losing the tactical realism of the game.

It's something you can do in IL2 and adjust to suit yourself while allowing (and limiting?) the padlock you desire.


I suspect that it would have a similar effect as those arrows do on open pit servers, where basically the whole surprise element is taken away.

\

You need to fly a tightly limited icons server to see.
A colored dot at 100m or less in front of you is hardly a giveaway, if a distraction then tighten the range.

DKoor
06-30-2009, 03:06 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I recently learned that you can change what icons display at different distances.

Im actually pretty indifferent to icons, but its always a treat having a distance meter.
Also knowing plane type from 3km out, gives me a good impression of how my plane needs to perform energy wise.

I suppose icon settings could be:

distance tags at 3km...

plane type : 2 or 3km


team color : 1km
The way i see it, its usually toughest to identify friend from foe in head on passes with out icons. Having team color displayed at 1km at least gives a better indicator if you need to shoot, and wouldn't ruin the surprise aspect of trying to get a read on an approaching object.


I think whats needed more, is the variety of planesets.

Full real, usually offers a handful of planes on each side from a specific historical setting, where the open pit servers let you have at it with just about any plane from the same era.

With that thought in mind icons might be a necessity. Mate I think you can easily kill the icon "color". It is completely unnecessary IMHO.
Dot range; I don't know... I guess that wildly depends on aircraft size IRL, so it is arguable what may be the best distance, as game can't distinguish A/C size.
Colour; unwanted since it doesn't serve anything.
Range; unwanted... IRL there weren't ranges, so why they would be here... one must learn approximate distance.
Type; as it also heavily depends on aircraft size IRL (you could distinguish P-38 before all other fighter types http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif ), I'd set that in range 1,5 - 2km, both friendly and enemy.
Callsign; approx 300m for friendly and 0 for enemy.
Name; same 300m for friendly and 0 for enemy.
I don't think that one can really say for sure who is in which aircraft once they are airborne on distances larger than few hundred meters, unless one has polka pink and another neon green camouflage pattern or something...

Here is the suggestion try it out in QMB or you can load one test COOP so you can see your name too (only when viewed from another friendly plane within 300m).

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 14.000 COLOR 0.005 RANGE 0.005 TYPE 1.600 ID 0.300 NAME 0.300
mp_dotrange FOE DOT 14.000 COLOR 0.005 RANGE 0.005 TYPE 1.500 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005
</pre>

DKoor
06-30-2009, 03:14 AM
Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I suspect that it would have a similar effect as those arrows do on open pit servers, where basically the whole surprise element is taken away.
I can't remember last time when someone taht I didn't see shot me down... sure they sometimes sneak up but never really get in gun range before I notice them.
That is on realistic servers and i fly alone 99% times with crappy computer spec http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif .
I have a hard time spotting dots and others stuff that are below me however but that is because I have low end system.

So one can imagine just how laughable is flying on anything but closed pit all times regarding comparisons to real life situations... I know we shouldn't be slaves of historical immersion fully, everyone should fly as they like, but also must be aware that externals, open pit and neon icons are miles away from emulating historical airwar as closed pit and limited icons emulates it (or no icons).

BillSwagger
06-30-2009, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by DKoor:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by BillSwagger:
I recently learned that you can change what icons display at different distances.

Im actually pretty indifferent to icons, but its always a treat having a distance meter.
Also knowing plane type from 3km out, gives me a good impression of how my plane needs to perform energy wise.

I suppose icon settings could be:

distance tags at 3km...

plane type : 2 or 3km


team color : 1km
The way i see it, its usually toughest to identify friend from foe in head on passes with out icons. Having team color displayed at 1km at least gives a better indicator if you need to shoot, and wouldn't ruin the surprise aspect of trying to get a read on an approaching object.


I think whats needed more, is the variety of planesets.

Full real, usually offers a handful of planes on each side from a specific historical setting, where the open pit servers let you have at it with just about any plane from the same era.

With that thought in mind icons might be a necessity. Mate I think you can easily kill the icon "color". It is completely unnecessary IMHO.
Dot range; I don't know... I guess that wildly depends on aircraft size IRL, so it is arguable what may be the best distance, as game can't distinguish A/C size.
Colour; unwanted since it doesn't serve anything.
Range; unwanted... IRL there weren't ranges, so why they would be here... one must learn approximate distance.
Type; as it also heavily depends on aircraft size IRL (you could distinguish P-38 before all other fighter types http://forums.ubi.com/images/smilies/partyhat.gif ), I'd set that in range 1,5 - 2km, both friendly and enemy.
Callsign; approx 300m for friendly and 0 for enemy.
Name; same 300m for friendly and 0 for enemy.
I don't think that one can really say for sure who is in which aircraft once they are airborne on distances larger than few hundred meters, unless one has polka pink and another neon green camouflage pattern or something...

Here is the suggestion try it out in QMB or you can load one test COOP so you can see your name too (only when viewed from another friendly plane within 300m).

<pre class="ip-ubbcode-code-pre">
mp_dotrange FRIENDLY DOT 14.000 COLOR 0.005 RANGE 0.005 TYPE 1.600 ID 0.300 NAME 0.300
mp_dotrange FOE DOT 14.000 COLOR 0.005 RANGE 0.005 TYPE 1.500 ID 0.005 NAME 0.005
</pre> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That sounds like a good suggestion.
Icons can be configured an infinite number of ways, so it takes some time to find comfortable settings.
For now, id like to focus on ridding external views, and allow for internal padlock.

I play on a lap top, which isn't necessarily lower end, it just doesn't have the graphics capacity that allow for more detailed game play.
Im not even sure that matters, because i've looked at screen shots of prefect settings and locating aircraft below you is still a bit of a challenge.
Where it makes a bigger difference is in frame rate. Detailed scenery and clouds will kill my frame rate on full switch settings, so tracking becomes a headache (literally). Internal padlock allows for better tracking, in those situations.
Icons can be configured to not allow the padlock to help identify friend from foe.



How do (or can) you change the padlock range?

Aviar
06-30-2009, 04:22 PM
When I used to host Df rooms, my settings were very similar to your suggestion:

-No externals
-Padlock Enabled
-Icons Enabled

I always use custom Icons when I host:

-Color: All Black
-Range: 3.0k (only plane model displayed, no distance)
-Friendly Pilot Names: 2.0k

However, I found that these Difficulty settings were not as popular as I had hoped. The hardcore crowd preferred Full Real settings and the arcade crowd preferred open cockpit and externals. This left a much smaller crowd for my DF server.

As far as padlock goes, you cannot change the Range.

You also stated: "Icons can be configured to not allow the padlock to help identify friend from foe."

This is true. However, to get this result, you would need to DISABLE icons in your Difficulty settings and use the green default icon. If you do this, you can't use any custom icon settings.

Aviar

WTE_Galway
06-30-2009, 06:12 PM
Originally posted by Aviar:


However, I found that these Difficulty settings were not as popular as I had hoped. The hardcore crowd preferred Full Real settings and the arcade crowd preferred open cockpit and externals.

Not sure about hardcore, but often in the past the more experienced players together with people looking for a more historical game gravitated to co-ops, passworded squad servers and online wars and away from dogfight servers altogether.

Back then my problem with open pit servers was not the settings ... I was happy to fly on them with cockpit enabled and not use externals ... but the fact that open pit servers seemed to invariably attract a few trolls flamers and brats.

Tully__
07-01-2009, 01:36 AM
Originally posted by Aviar:

This is true. However, to get this result, you would need to DISABLE icons in your Difficulty settings and use the green default icon. If you do this, you can't use any custom icon settings.

Aviar
I'm not sure but I think if you set all the mp_dotrange settings except DOT to short range you don't even get the green triangle until very close.

Aviar
07-01-2009, 02:57 AM
That's true Tully. You can get rid of the green triangle altogether.....for instance, like this:

@a test mp_dotrange COLOR 0.005 TYPE 0.005 NAME 0.005 ID 0.005 RANGE 0.005 DOT 30.0

Aviar

DKoor
07-01-2009, 03:16 AM
But F6 works flawlessly I presume http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

Aviar
07-01-2009, 01:21 PM
Originally posted by DKoor:
But F6 works flawlessly I presume http://forums.ubi.com/groupee_common/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif .

I assume by 'F6' you mean External Padlock. However, we were discussing a server with Externals disabled. In that case, F6 would not work.

Aviar